From: owner-sycophant-digest@smoe.org (sycophant-digest) To: sycophant-digest@smoe.org Subject: sycophant-digest V4 #43 Reply-To: sycophant@smoe.org Sender: owner-sycophant-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-sycophant-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk sycophant-digest Monday, March 29 1999 Volume 04 : Number 043 Today's Subjects: ----------------- sycophant "used" Lisa [Jeffrey Pearson ] sycophant A discussion on "used" Lisa [Marc.Tobolski@cableone.net] Re: sycophant "used" Lisa [Stephen Mulligan ] RE: sycophant A discussion on "used" Lisa [Marc.Tobolski@cableone.net] RE: sycophant A discussion on "used" Lisa [Joe Wiencis ] RE: sycophant A discussion on "used" Lisa [Marc.Tobolski@cableone.net] RE: sycophant A discussion on "used" Lisa [Jeffrey Pearson ] sycophant Current Tour [Kimberly Hansen ] RE: sycophant New/Used Debate [Marc.Tobolski@cableone.net] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:06:44 -0500 From: Jeffrey Pearson Subject: sycophant "used" Lisa At 05:21 AM 3/28/99 PST, you wrote: > >I recently came across a used copy of Happiness (Capitol) for $4. >Woo-hoo! > At the risk of generating some bad feelings, I am going to take you and others who have talked about finding used Lisa music to task. Lisa Germano did not make a dime off of that used copy of Happiness you bought. She is attempting to make a living off of her music, and that means sales of her CDs. New, not used. I read somewhere that artists only make a dollar or two with each sale of a new CD. Sure, buy that used CD and give it to someone that has yet to be enlightened. Spread the word and further her cause. But if you truely love Lisa's music, you should support her and BUY ALL OF HER MUSIC NEW. I welcome feedback/discussion on this... - -Jeff Pearson Berkley, MI - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:53:23 -0700 From: Marc.Tobolski@cableone.net Subject: sycophant A discussion on "used" Lisa When you purchase a CD you purchase an individual license for that one copy. You can then keep, give away or trade-in that copy. You are even allowed to make a "safety" copy for yourself. By selling/giving away that CD, you no longer hold the license for that one copy. Lisa still got her $ for the initial purchase of that license. As long as copies are not reproduced from that CD and sold or distributed without license (violation of copyright), no one has been harmed. The used CD business does not harm the artist. Bootlegging, whether it be via unauthorized copies of released or unreleased material on CD, tape or MP3 is where the artist gets shafted in the financial food chain. By now, all of LG's Capital output has been "remaindered" and she gets NOTHING off of any of those sales. In fact, she was probably whacked with charges for advances from sales that didn't occur. Any $ spent on non-used Capital CD's by LG are all profit to Capital and the record store. Think of it in this fashion: You buy a car, you use the car, but decide to sell the car. When you make the sale, Ford does not get any of the $, nor do the factory workers that built the car. When you bought the car, you have "license" to do whatever you please with the car, including reselling it. However, you can't build an exact copy of the car you bought, call it a Ford and sell that. I know, apples 'n kumquats, but I think you get the point. My job as a fan/consumer is to not necessarily provide a financial stream to the artists I enjoy. That is not how it works. Very few artists get rich from album sales. Most make their coin in touring and publishing rights. Examples: The Beach Boys don't sell diddly squat now, but tour their butts off and make a ton of cash doing so. Diane Warren needs to buy a new rake everyday for all the $$$ she takes in for all the hits she has written. Marc Tobolski Division Marketing Director CableONE, Inc. (602)364-6366 (602)364-6766 fax http://www.cableone.net/tobolski/ "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-sycophant@smoe.org [mailto:owner-sycophant@smoe.org]On > Behalf Of Jeffrey Pearson > Sent: Monday, March 29, 1999 7:15 AM > To: sycophant@smoe.org > Subject: sycophant "used" Lisa > > > At 05:21 AM 3/28/99 PST, you wrote: > > > >I recently came across a used copy of Happiness (Capitol) for $4. > >Woo-hoo! > > > > At the risk of generating some bad feelings, I am going to > take you and > others who have talked about finding used Lisa music to task. > > Lisa Germano did not make a dime off of that used copy of > Happiness you > bought. She is attempting to make a living off of her music, > and that means > sales of her CDs. New, not used. I read somewhere that > artists only make a > dollar or two with each sale of a new CD. Sure, buy that used > CD and give > it to someone that has yet to be enlightened. Spread the word > and further > her cause. But if you truely love Lisa's music, you should > support her and > BUY ALL OF HER MUSIC NEW. > > I welcome feedback/discussion on this... > > > -Jeff Pearson > Berkley, MI > > > > ------- > The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ > ------- > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: > unsubscribe sycophant > > If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number > of computers, > they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list > address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before > unsubbing. > > - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:10:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Stephen Mulligan Subject: Re: sycophant "used" Lisa Okay, good point about her making no money off used copies and very little off new albums. But some places it's very hard to get Lisa Germano albums new. I am at univeristy in Northern Ireland, where you would expect to find a few fans, but as far as I know, I'm the only one that's even heard of Lisa Germano. Sometimes used is all we can find. That nobody's ever heard of her is a bit unfair when you consider how popular s**t like Oasis are. Seeya Stephen On Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:06:44 -0500 Jeffrey Pearson wrote: > At 05:21 AM 3/28/99 PST, you wrote: > > > >I recently came across a used copy of Happiness (Capitol) for $4. > >Woo-hoo! > > > > At the risk of generating some bad feelings, I am going to take you and > others who have talked about finding used Lisa music to task. > > Lisa Germano did not make a dime off of that used copy of Happiness you > bought. She is attempting to make a living off of her music, and that means > sales of her CDs. New, not used. I read somewhere that artists only make a > dollar or two with each sale of a new CD. Sure, buy that used CD and give > it to someone that has yet to be enlightened. Spread the word and further > her cause. But if you truely love Lisa's music, you should support her and > BUY ALL OF HER MUSIC NEW. > > I welcome feedback/discussion on this... > > > -Jeff Pearson > Berkley, MI > > > > ------- > The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ > ------- > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: > unsubscribe sycophant > > If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, > they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list > address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before > unsubbing. > - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:01:45 -0500 From: Tricia Holtz & Darrell Whitbeck Subject: Re: sycophant A discussion on "used" Lisa Now that seems to make more sense. Thanks for the info, Marc Marc.Tobolski@cableone.net wrote: > When you purchase a CD you purchase an individual license for that one copy. You can then keep, give away or > trade-in that copy. You are even allowed to make a "safety" copy for yourself. By selling/giving away that > CD, you no longer hold the license for that one copy. Lisa still got her $ for the initial purchase of that > license. As long as copies are not reproduced from that CD and sold or distributed without license (violation > of copyright), no one has been harmed. The used CD business does not harm the artist. Bootlegging, whether > it be via unauthorized copies of released or unreleased material on CD, tape or MP3 is where the artist gets > shafted in the financial food chain. By now, all of LG's Capital output has been "remaindered" and she gets > NOTHING off of any of those sales. In fact, she was probably whacked with charges for advances from sales > that didn't occur. Any $ spent on non-used Capital CD's by LG are all profit to Capital and the record store. > > Think of it in this fashion: You buy a car, you use the car, but decide to sell the car. When you make the > sale, Ford does not get any of the $, nor do the factory workers that built the car. When you bought the car, > you have "license" to do whatever you please with the car, including reselling it. However, you can't build > an exact copy of the car you bought, call it a Ford and sell that. I know, apples 'n kumquats, but I think > you get the point. > > My job as a fan/consumer is to not necessarily provide a financial stream to the artists I enjoy. That is not > how it works. Very few artists get rich from album sales. Most make their coin in touring and publishing > rights. Examples: The Beach Boys don't sell diddly squat now, but tour their butts off and make a ton of > cash doing so. Diane Warren needs to buy a new rake everyday for all the $$$ she takes in for all the hits > she has written. > > Marc Tobolski > Division Marketing Director > CableONE, Inc. > (602)364-6366 > (602)364-6766 fax > http://www.cableone.net/tobolski/ > > "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car > keys to teenage boys." > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-sycophant@smoe.org [mailto:owner-sycophant@smoe.org]On > > Behalf Of Jeffrey Pearson > > Sent: Monday, March 29, 1999 7:15 AM > > To: sycophant@smoe.org > > Subject: sycophant "used" Lisa > > > > > > At 05:21 AM 3/28/99 PST, you wrote: > > > > > >I recently came across a used copy of Happiness (Capitol) for $4. > > >Woo-hoo! > > > > > > > At the risk of generating some bad feelings, I am going to > > take you and > > others who have talked about finding used Lisa music to task. > > > > Lisa Germano did not make a dime off of that used copy of > > Happiness you > > bought. She is attempting to make a living off of her music, > > and that means > > sales of her CDs. New, not used. I read somewhere that > > artists only make a > > dollar or two with each sale of a new CD. Sure, buy that used > > CD and give > > it to someone that has yet to be enlightened. Spread the word > > and further > > her cause. But if you truely love Lisa's music, you should > > support her and > > BUY ALL OF HER MUSIC NEW. > > > > I welcome feedback/discussion on this... > > > > > > -Jeff Pearson > > Berkley, MI > > > > > > > > ------- > > The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ > > ------- > > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: > > unsubscribe sycophant > > > > If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number > > of computers, > > they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list > > address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before > > unsubbing. > > > > > > ------- > The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ > ------- > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: > unsubscribe sycophant > > If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, > they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list > address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before > unsubbing. - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:32:02 -0500 From: Jeffrey Pearson Subject: Re: sycophant A discussion on "used" Lisa I agree that it is OK to buy used CDs, and I do it all the time. It is a good way to try unfamiliar artists without investing too much money. But I stand by the idea that we should support the artists we love and buy their music new if it profits them. As for remaindered product, how can the average person tell whether a CD is remaindered or not? At what point do we know if the artist is making any money off it? How about the LG product that is being re-released in April? Are you telling me that she won't see any profit from those CDs? As for touring, is it not true that most artists tour to support their new music? Unless they have the stature of the Greatful Dead, I don't think many artists can support themselves predominantly on profits from touring. The new sale of CDs is an important part of the survival picture in the music business. My point is simple. If we can support Lisa by buying her music new, rather than waiting for a copy to show up in the used bin, we should buy new. If used is the only way you can find it, buy it of course. - -Jeff Pearson Berkley, MI At 07:53 AM 3/29/99 -0700, you wrote: >When you purchase a CD you purchase an individual license for that one copy. You can then keep, give away or >trade-in that copy. You are even allowed to make a "safety" copy for yourself. By selling/giving away that >CD, you no longer hold the license for that one copy. Lisa still got her $ for the initial purchase of that >license. As long as copies are not reproduced from that CD and sold or distributed without license (violation >of copyright), no one has been harmed. The used CD business does not harm the artist. Bootlegging, whether >it be via unauthorized copies of released or unreleased material on CD, tape or MP3 is where the artist gets >shafted in the financial food chain. By now, all of LG's Capital output has been "remaindered" and she gets >NOTHING off of any of those sales. In fact, she was probably whacked with charges for advances from sales >that didn't occur. Any $ spent on non-used Capital CD's by LG are all profit to Capital and the record store. > >Think of it in this fashion: You buy a car, you use the car, but decide to sell the car. When you make the >sale, Ford does not get any of the $, nor do the factory workers that built the car. When you bought the car, >you have "license" to do whatever you please with the car, including reselling it. However, you can't build >an exact copy of the car you bought, call it a Ford and sell that. I know, apples 'n kumquats, but I think >you get the point. > >My job as a fan/consumer is to not necessarily provide a financial stream to the artists I enjoy. That is not >how it works. Very few artists get rich from album sales. Most make their coin in touring and publishing >rights. Examples: The Beach Boys don't sell diddly squat now, but tour their butts off and make a ton of >cash doing so. Diane Warren needs to buy a new rake everyday for all the $$$ she takes in for all the hits >she has written. > >Marc Tobolski >Division Marketing Director >CableONE, Inc. >(602)364-6366 >(602)364-6766 fax >http://www.cableone.net/tobolski/ > >"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car >keys to teenage boys." > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-sycophant@smoe.org [mailto:owner-sycophant@smoe.org]On >> Behalf Of Jeffrey Pearson >> Sent: Monday, March 29, 1999 7:15 AM >> To: sycophant@smoe.org >> Subject: sycophant "used" Lisa >> >> >> At 05:21 AM 3/28/99 PST, you wrote: >> > >> >I recently came across a used copy of Happiness (Capitol) for $4. >> >Woo-hoo! >> > >> >> At the risk of generating some bad feelings, I am going to >> take you and >> others who have talked about finding used Lisa music to task. >> >> Lisa Germano did not make a dime off of that used copy of >> Happiness you >> bought. She is attempting to make a living off of her music, >> and that means >> sales of her CDs. New, not used. I read somewhere that >> artists only make a >> dollar or two with each sale of a new CD. Sure, buy that used >> CD and give >> it to someone that has yet to be enlightened. Spread the word >> and further >> her cause. But if you truely love Lisa's music, you should >> support her and >> BUY ALL OF HER MUSIC NEW. >> >> I welcome feedback/discussion on this... >> >> >> -Jeff Pearson >> Berkley, MI >> >> >> >> ------- >> The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ >> ------- >> To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: >> unsubscribe sycophant >> >> If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number >> of computers, >> they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list >> address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before >> unsubbing. >> >> > > > > > > >------- >The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ >------- >To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: >unsubscribe sycophant > >If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, >they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list >address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before >unsubbing. > > - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:38:11 -0500 From: Terry Maltos Subject: Re: sycophant A discussion on "used" Lisa > As for remaindered product, how can the average person tell whether a CD is remaindered or not? Usually it will be "cut-out" - with either a hole in it (like a promo) or a slice taken out of the side of the cover. >How about the LG product that is being re-released in April? Are you telling me that she won't see > any profit from those CDs? She will. T - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:32:03 -0600 From: "Brad Upchurch" Subject: Re: sycophant A discussion on "used" Lisa Very good points Marc.... Usually music groups will create even more debt while touring to add with their debts from unfavorable record contracts. Ideally they would generate much revenue from touring, but typically they go bankrupt paying off all the new debts they created from transportation costs, sound system rentals, lighting system rentals, venue contracts, marketing and advertising costs, ticket office charges, and everything else you can imagine.. And if the label isn't pushing their music, then usually it is all in vain. Typically when it comes to low-volume used CD's. A good rule of thumb, if it has gone platinum, buy it used. If it is impossible to find, and is a low volume album (<30,000 produced) buy it new; show the labels that you support non-mainstream music and they will sign more interesting (and more risky) acts. >>"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car >>keys to teenage boys." =) - -Brad - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:35:41 -0700 From: Marc.Tobolski@cableone.net Subject: RE: sycophant A discussion on "used" Lisa My point is this: As a fan, I am under no obligation to provide financial support to Lisa Germano. And that should not make me any less of a fan in anyone's eyes. Even if it does, fine. That is your choice. What do you think Lisa's opinion on this would be? "Buy my record 'cause I want the money"? Or, "Buy this record 'cause I put my heart and soul into it and I think you will enjoy it."? Example #1 works if you are Mick Jagger & Keith Richards. If she were in this for the money she would still be touring and recording with Mellencamp. We should buy the music we want at the price we want, as long as we break no laws in the process. I spend over $2,000 annually on CD's and vinyl and I rarely buy at full retail. And then only on a "Gawd, I really need this RIGHT NOW" basis. I don't give a darned sock what kind of deal the artist has with the record company when I make that buying decision. That's their business, not mine. I'm not a philanthropist in that I will spend more money (or any money for that matter) for a product because it will end-benefit the artist/businessman that I am a fan of. If devotion to an artist means paying their bills, then write a check to them for $20, send it to 'em and say "Thanks for the music that you've already produced, I hope the money helps pay the bills." Marc Tobolski Division Marketing Director CableONE, Inc. (602)364-6366 (602)364-6766 fax http://www.cableone.net/tobolski/ "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-sycophant@smoe.org [mailto:owner-sycophant@smoe.org]On > Behalf Of Jeffrey Pearson> > > I agree that it is OK to buy used CDs, and I do it all the > time. It is a > good way to try unfamiliar artists without investing too much > money. But I > stand by the idea that we should support the artists we love > and buy their > music new if it profits them. As for remaindered product, how can the > average person tell whether a CD is remaindered or not? At > what point do we > know if the artist is making any money off it? How about the > LG product > that is being re-released in April? Are you telling me that > she won't see > any profit from those CDs? As for touring, is it not true > that most artists > tour to support their new music? Unless they have the stature of the > Greatful Dead, I don't think many artists can support themselves > predominantly on profits from touring. The new sale of CDs is > an important > part of the survival picture in the music business. > > My point is simple. If we can support Lisa by buying her > music new, rather > than waiting for a copy to show up in the used bin, we should > buy new. If > used is the only way you can find it, buy it of course. > > -Jeff Pearson > Berkley, MI > - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:25:52 -0500 From: Joe Wiencis Subject: RE: sycophant A discussion on "used" Lisa But if it's impossible to find and I see it used then don'tcha think I'm gonna grab it?! > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Upchurch [SMTP:bup@ou.edu] > Sent: Monday, March 29, 1999 11:32 AM > To: sycophant@smoe.org > Subject: Re: sycophant A discussion on "used" Lisa > > > A good rule of thumb, if it has gone platinum, buy it used. If it is > impossible to find, and is a > low volume album (<30,000 produced) buy it new; show the labels that you > support non-mainstream music and they will sign more interesting (and more > risky) acts. > - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:42:10 PST From: "Stian Sandberg" Subject: Re: sycophant "used" Lisa To be very theoretical, as a consumer/customer, one really can´t take any responsibility for the producer of the merchandise.. Everybody´s basically looking out for their own interest, even Lisa and whatever label might be releasing her stuff. But don´t get me wrong, it´s nice that you look out for her :o) As for the re-released stuff coming out soon, she will probably profit from it, as it´s not on Capitol but 4AD Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:47:18 -0700 From: Marc.Tobolski@cableone.net Subject: RE: sycophant A discussion on "used" Lisa When less-than-major acts tour, they will usually lose money because they want to tour like major acts. They forget (or have never experienced) how they had to make money by being a local/regional act. Lots of acts get stupid because they now have a record deal. I think that the argument for supporting musicians by purchasing "new" is a great idea. Doesn't work for me, though. And smacks of some twisted sense of altruism. Go see bands/musicians LIVE. Butts in seats means as much as anything else for these folks. This is immediate feedback for them. I don't care where I am, but if there is a band playing I applaud after every song, even if it sucks. Why? Cause it takes a lot of guts to get up on stage & do that...and for that the least I can do is applaud the effort. Marc Tobolski Division Marketing Director CableONE, Inc. (602)364-6366 (602)364-6766 fax http://www.cableone.net/tobolski/ "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-sycophant@smoe.org [mailto:owner-sycophant@smoe.org]On > Behalf Of Brad Upchurch > Sent: Monday, March 29, 1999 9:38 AM > To: sycophant@smoe.org > Subject: Re: sycophant A discussion on "used" Lisa > > > > > Very good points Marc.... > > Usually music groups will create even more debt while > touring to add > with their debts from unfavorable record contracts. Ideally > they would > generate much revenue from touring, but typically they go > bankrupt paying > off all the new debts they created from transportation costs, > sound system > rentals, lighting system rentals, venue contracts, marketing > and advertising > costs, ticket office charges, and everything else you can > imagine.. And if > the label isn't pushing their music, then usually it is all in vain. > > Typically when it comes to low-volume used CD's. A good > rule of thumb, if > it has gone platinum, buy it used. If it is impossible to > find, and is a > low volume album (<30,000 produced) buy it new; show the > labels that you > support non-mainstream music and they will sign more > interesting (and more > risky) acts. > > > >>"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car > >>keys to teenage boys." > > > =) > > -Brad > > > > > ------- > The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ > ------- > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: > unsubscribe sycophant > > If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number > of computers, > they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list > address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before > unsubbing. > > - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:52:40 -0500 From: Jeffrey Pearson Subject: RE: sycophant A discussion on "used" Lisa Geez Marc, you're sounding a bit defensive. Maybe I struck a nerve. Well, that's good. I've given you something to think about. Hopefully. BTW, Lisa is the only artist that I've ever felt so strongly about as to take this new/used stance. I still think buying her music new is a better way to support her (and I don't think supporting her is a bad idea) than mailing her $20 bucks. - -Jeff Pearson At 09:35 AM 3/29/99 -0700, you wrote: >My point is this: As a fan, I am under no obligation to provide financial support to Lisa Germano. And that >should not make me any less of a fan in anyone's eyes. Even if it does, fine. That is your choice. What do >you think Lisa's opinion on this would be? "Buy my record 'cause I want the money"? Or, "Buy this record >'cause I put my heart and soul into it and I think you will enjoy it."? Example #1 works if you are Mick >Jagger & Keith Richards. If she were in this for the money she would still be touring and recording with >Mellencamp. > >We should buy the music we want at the price we want, as long as we break no laws in the process. I spend >over $2,000 annually on CD's and vinyl and I rarely buy at full retail. And then only on a "Gawd, I really >need this RIGHT NOW" basis. I don't give a darned sock what kind of deal the artist has with the record >company when I make that buying decision. That's their business, not mine. I'm not a philanthropist in that >I will spend more money (or any money for that matter) for a product because it will end-benefit the >artist/businessman that I am a fan of. If devotion to an artist means paying their bills, then write a check >to them for $20, send it to 'em and say "Thanks for the music that you've already produced, I hope the money >helps pay the bills." > >Marc Tobolski >Division Marketing Director >CableONE, Inc. >(602)364-6366 >(602)364-6766 fax >http://www.cableone.net/tobolski/ > >"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car >keys to teenage boys." > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-sycophant@smoe.org [mailto:owner-sycophant@smoe.org]On >> Behalf Of Jeffrey Pearson> >> >> I agree that it is OK to buy used CDs, and I do it all the >> time. It is a >> good way to try unfamiliar artists without investing too much >> money. But I >> stand by the idea that we should support the artists we love >> and buy their >> music new if it profits them. As for remaindered product, how can the >> average person tell whether a CD is remaindered or not? At >> what point do we >> know if the artist is making any money off it? How about the >> LG product >> that is being re-released in April? Are you telling me that >> she won't see >> any profit from those CDs? As for touring, is it not true >> that most artists >> tour to support their new music? Unless they have the stature of the >> Greatful Dead, I don't think many artists can support themselves >> predominantly on profits from touring. The new sale of CDs is >> an important >> part of the survival picture in the music business. >> >> My point is simple. If we can support Lisa by buying her >> music new, rather >> than waiting for a copy to show up in the used bin, we should >> buy new. If >> used is the only way you can find it, buy it of course. >> >> -Jeff Pearson >> Berkley, MI >> > > > > > > >------- >The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ >------- >To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: >unsubscribe sycophant > >If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, >they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list >address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before >unsubbing. > > - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:03:22 -0500 From: Terry Maltos Subject: Re: sycophant A discussion on "used" Lisa >I still think buying her music new is a better way to > support her (and I don't think supporting her is a bad idea) than mailing > her $20 bucks. > > -Jeff Pearson Actually the idea of "shareware" for music kinda make sense. Lisa herself would most likely make tons more money off of a personal payoff than the "points" deal she would make with a record company. T - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:24:20 -0700 From: Marc.Tobolski@cableone.net Subject: RE: sycophant A discussion on "used" Lisa Sorry...at times my tone can get a little harsh in the world of email. I just get a little fired up about the idea over purchasing used CD's. Marc Tobolski Division Marketing Director CableONE, Inc. (602)364-6366 (602)364-6766 fax http://www.cableone.net/tobolski/ "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:42:36 -0600 From: Kathryn Case Subject: sycophant New/Used Debate Hi all, I'll be seeing Lisa's show in Austin on April 9. (THANKS, G Perez, for the tour schedule info in your March 9 posting!) I plan to buy any and all CDs and merchandise she has available at the show, except for the ones I already have, of course. Can anyone tell us if the artist benefits more from sales at shows than from other kinds of sales? My sweetie and I are so excited about seeing Lisa in person that we can hardly stand it! Kathryn - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:39:44 -0600 From: Kimberly Hansen Subject: sycophant Current Tour The used CD topic has got to go!!! I'd like to ask fellow Lisa fans their opinion of the Latin Playboys. I'm debating buying tickets... Of course I want to see Lisa, but I'm curious to know more about the Latin Playboys. I understand that Mitchell Froom and Tchad Blake are members of the band - which of course is a major plus... Still, it seems like an odd line up. Your thoughts? - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:02:41 -0700 From: Marc.Tobolski@cableone.net Subject: RE: sycophant New/Used Debate Sometimes. I say that in that some artists can buy the disc's wholesale from the label and keep any margin difference from the cost of sale. They become the "middle man". Marc Tobolski Division Marketing Director CableONE, Inc. (602)364-6366 (602)364-6766 fax http://www.cableone.net/tobolski/ "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-sycophant@smoe.org [mailto:owner-sycophant@smoe.org]On > Behalf Of Kathryn Case > Sent: Monday, March 29, 1999 10:55 AM > To: sycophant@smoe.org > Subject: sycophant New/Used Debate > > > Hi all, > > I'll be seeing Lisa's show in Austin on April 9. (THANKS, G > Perez, for the > tour schedule info in your March 9 posting!) I plan to buy > any and all CDs > and merchandise she has available at the show, except for the ones I > already have, of course. Can anyone tell us if the artist > benefits more > from sales at shows than from other kinds of sales? > > My sweetie and I are so excited about seeing Lisa in person > that we can > hardly stand it! > > Kathryn > > > > > ------- > The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ > ------- > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: > unsubscribe sycophant > > If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number > of computers, > they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list > address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before > unsubbing. > > - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ End of sycophant-digest V4 #43 ****************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to sycophant-owner@smoe.org