From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #63 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, February 1 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 063 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Re: broad brush [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? Hmmm, not bad [Jason Malo] wtrf- solid love [Wolfebite@aol.com] Trivia (reallyTassie Devils!) NJC [john low ] WTRF - Henley to Joni on Ritchie [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] In My Dweams ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] this woman's work (njc) [evian ] Re: In My Dreams NJC [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Trivia (reallyTassie Devils!) NJC ["Alan Lorimer" ] Re: standards..joni's voice [luvart@snet.net] Re: In My Dweams [TerryM2442@aol.com] Biography [TerryM2442@aol.com] viscous lists [Roman ] strange fruit [Roman ] The World of Coke [Roman ] Ritchie Running Fast (Paints His Shirt Red) [Roman ] I like to watch [Roman ] vicious lists [Roman ] Kate Bush site [Roman ] Re: Trippy Music (NJC) [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Biography [Robert Holliston ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:03:31 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: broad brush In a message dated 1/31/00 3:36:05 PM, mlg@ukonline.co.uk wrote: >A quick and belated apology to Fred... >I put Roman's words into your mouth. Hope they didn't taste too bad! Beg >pardon. Actually, they did taste kinda funky ... - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 02:18:04 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? Hmmm, not bad Oh, and here's another thing I had to comment on.... :-) Matthew wrote: > It's funny as well, I don't know whether anyone else does this, but I always > seem to create a mood for an album by what it's front cover looks like. For > instance, 'Court and Spark' is creamy for me, and I think it's quite fun. > Which it is, but it's cover is really light, and TTT is really warm, which > the front cover captures perfectly. Maybe that's just Joni with her good > packaging, but I do it with all the people I listen to. I know, I sound > stupid. 'Blue' is obviously blue, but Hejira's cover is just perfect for the > album. i really only listen to that album when I'm in the mood. It's a bit > draining if you're not. Although I could listen to 'song for sharon' all > day. Matthew, I'm sure you're not alone in this! I think it's often just a natural thing to do. Personally, I take a lot of pleasure in a good album sleeve. Scanning my Top 100 Albums for my website was sheer bliss for me in that respect. I'd forgotten just how much I enjoy and value the cover art of an album when it's good, and how hardly any of my 100 choices have what I would consider aesthetically affronting artwork. I'm sure there's something quite significant in that. As for Joni album sleeves, I wonder whether the reason just about every one of her album covers is both appropriate to the contents and visually pleasing is mainly due to her being an artist. Obvious conclusion to reach, I know, but one that holds true? Even DJRD, not my favourite of covers, is entirely fitting for the music inside. I agree with you about Hejira...that is a stunning sleeve for an equally stunning album (my #8 of all-time...ahead of Hounds Of Love, even!) I think the only Joni sleeve I don't *get* is WTRF..and, hey presto...guess what? It's probably the Joni album I have most trouble feeling affinity with. When considering of my favoruite Joni tracks, or even looking back over her catalogue, WTRF is the one I always have trouble getting that unmistakable Joni-feeling about just by even thinking of it. Yet, the cover of TTT is quite possibly the reason I manage to keep some sort of faith in it! A different cover, and it would surely be lower than even WTRF in my estimation...and you thought YOU were mad, Matthew! I'm enjoying this thread more than I should, I know... ;o) Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:47:58 EST From: Wolfebite@aol.com Subject: wtrf- solid love hey yall been in and out of reading post -but have been drawn to WTRF postings. i had that on vinyl back in college when it first came out, i don't think i've listened to that album in over 10 years! but i so curious to go back to it (actually- i don't own it anymore). solid love still stands out in my head as a favorite. i think it's the closest to capturing that early rock and roll do-wopish feel that she likes so much- you know- that 'why do fools fall in love' sound. 'underneath the street lights' (is that the title?) comes in a close second. where as 'dream flat tires', 'lady's man', 'your so square' just flop for me.... i like 'dancing clown' from CMIARS too- forget the overproduction, and it's a sweet rollicking song. i think some of her rock and rollish songs from that time... 'solid love' and 'dancing clowns' especially... could be really hot now- redone- sparser and more acoustic/percussive. I'd imagine a bit of the percussions of 'fourth world' underneath them- a bit of grinding grunge guitar and chorus of partying rabblerousers behind her. still digging toshi reagon- you'll have to give it a listen sometime doug ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 13:22:52 +1000 From: john low Subject: Trivia (reallyTassie Devils!) NJC Alan generously offered: "For a chance to win a real live cuddly Tasmanian Devil just answer the following question:" Now I know what happened to all those supposedly extinct Tasmanian Tigers. Alan has given them all away!! :-) John (in Sydney). __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://start.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:37:47 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: WTRF - Henley to Joni on Ritchie I have not much affection for the post-Commodores Ritchie, placing him in the same category of dreck as Kenny Rogers, Chris Gaines (or whatever name that dude is using today), and Barry Manilow, the post-Mandy years. In fact, my musical dreck category is almost all white, for whatever that is with. But tghen I read this: Lindsay Moon wrote: > Well, that JMDL site is a thing of wonderment! > ....... It > is on Les' site and called "Secret Places Part 1 of 2" from May 1988 (it > appeared in Musician Magazine if I'm not mistaken.) > "See, I had done something with Henley years before. For 'You Dream Flat > Tires' on Wild Things Run Fast. I wanted a female/male contrast, but > because of the register I had Henley sing it in, I didn't get any contrast. > We were both singing lower than usual, and you'd be a long way into it > before you realized that the voice changed. So I was dissatisfied with it > and Lionel Richie was working across the hall, so I put Lionel on it. I > forgot to tell Henley! Years went by and when I called him up to do this he > said, 'You're not gonna take me off and replace me with a Negro this time, > are you?' Is Henley a little bit of a bigot? A big bit of a bigot? Presuming that Joni is quoting Henly correctly, that is a racist statement. "You're not gonna take me off and replace me with ANOTHER SINGER would have been understandable and human; "with a Negro" is offensive. Does anyone know more about Henley to put this in any context by whcih we can otherwise understand this? I am sincerely asking. I didn't expect this type of statement from him. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:32:17 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? In a message dated 1/31/00 7:08:37 PM US Central Standard Time, alorimer@tassie.net.au writes: << Apologies to the American readers of the Digest who probably have no idea who Terry Pratchett is ;-) >> No apologies needed, Alan...I don't know the guy, but your post was a SUPERB summation of getting new Joni and how it has to slowly weave its way into your psyche. She is so unlike any other musical artist I know... Bob PS: So Matthew, do ya still think the list is too cliquey? LOL!! :~) It's like a good hot tub party...always room for one more! (But it WOULD have to be one big-ass tub for the lot of us! :~D) NP: Earth, Wind, & Fire, "Can't Hide Love" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:50:36 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: In My Dweams Dear Dr. Zigmondegreen, I keep having a recurring dream that I'm sailing my Dad's sailboat. Just like when I was in high school- racing sailboats on the weekends of Summer in the 70s. Does this mean that I'm reliving my past? Does the sailboat represent a state of grace? Am I the sailboat? Have I become my father's age? And why is Anna Nicole Smith there? Grinning, Jim *All earthly comforts to Wally* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:03:25 -0600 From: evian Subject: this woman's work (njc) Jason writes: > Is it just me, or was the Red Shoes a terribly disappointing album from Kate? > LOL, I know we've had this conversation before, which will probably offend the NRCONJRT (No Repeat Content of Non Joni Related Topics), but please, for the love of God, give The Red Shoes one more chance! It's one of my all-time faves, surpassing The Hounds of Love! It's one of those albums that both makes me tear up, AND makes me start gyrating all over my basement. As I said before, "Top of the City" and "Moments of Pleasure" always choke me up, and "Constellation of the Heart" and "Eat the Music" and "Rubberband Girl" always make me want to break out into dance like one of those wacky kids on Fame in the cafeteria! It's the only Kate album I love all the way through... all her other albums inevitably has a song or two that just plain annoys the hell out of me, but not TRS. Anyway, c'mon, give it another chance, Jason... You have lots of time, since I ain't expecting another Kate album for another decade or so! Evian np: a pre-recorded Dr. "evil bitch creep" Laura, which is making my blood boil and raising my blood pressure.... but of course I ain't changing the station.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:23:25 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: In My Dreams NJC Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Dear Dr. Zigmondegreen, > > I keep having a recurring dream that I'm sailing my Dad's sailboat. > Just like when I was in high school- racing sailboats on the weekends of > Summer in the 70s. Part 1: Dr. Zig is out. Peter Frampton, 70s expert, answers: > > Does this mean that I'm reliving my past? "Something's Happening." > Does the sailboat represent > a state of grace? "Winds of Change" Am I the sailboat? "Something's > happening." OR "I'll give you money."Have I become my father's age? > "It's a Plain Shame" And > why is Anna Nicole Smith there? "All I want to be (is by your side.)." You have 30 seconds to name that album... Part 2: Dr. Zig is out. Until he returns, I answer: Jim L'H says: And why is Anna Nicole Smith there? Because you are going to die, soon, probably drown, and your estate will be tied up in court for years. Stop grinning. This is your punishment for forgetting "NJC" and forgetting the Joni Onlys are not like the rest of us, they are a mean and vengeful group when the word "Joni" is not in a post. You should have dreampt of someone more cheerful. Why Anna Nicole Smith? Who is next? Lorena Bobbit? Leona Hensley? Tonya Harding? Vince :-) > > > Grinning, > Jim *All earthly comforts to Wally* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:13:42 +1100 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: Trivia (reallyTassie Devils!) NJC >Now I know what happened to all those supposedly extinct Tasmanian >Tigers. Alan has given them all away!! :-) John, Sorry if I can't supply any more Tasmania Tigers, how about a couple of overweight greyhounds with stripes painted on them? I could even take a "fuzzy out of focus" photo of one if you're not convinced ;-) Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:28:40 -0600 From: evian Subject: another This Woman's Work (njc) Mary writes: > I confess that I, too, was a little taken aback by Evian's initial > comment: I had never listened to "This Woman's Work" in that light, or > heard that it was dedicated to Kate's mother. . . although it may have been > for all I know! > Well, in light of the movie, the first verse makes a lot more sense. I didn't even know it was featured in the movie, although I saw it, so I don't even know how the hell I didn't even put 2 and 2 together. However, the rest of the song just seems so..... death-bed-ish to me, you know? The "I know you have a little life in you yet,/ I know you have a lot of strength left" always brings to mind some hospital scene, you know, where you are denying the death of a loved one. And the "I should be crying but I just can't let it show/I should be hoping but I can't stop thinking" conjures up the image of trying to be strong, while in the midst of the depths of hopelessness and despair. And the "I should be hoping but I can't stop thinking/ Of all the things we should've said/ That were never said/ All the things we should have done/ But we never did/ All the things that you needed from me/ All the things that you wanted for me/ All the things that I should've given./ But I didn't" was what I always saw as the lament of "All the time we wasted with petty fighting, and disagreements, and the struggles for identity, and all the incidental crap that happened" doesn't mean a thing now, and I always have seen it as a child saying to a parent that "If I could make up all the hurt to you, I would". I just always see it as a statement of how we always are hit with guilt and longing at times of illness and death, and this is why I find the song so damn sad -- I guess I see the song as another version of "The Living Years" but not as sappy. lol, although, the whole motherhood thing lightens the song up a tiny bit... but I still don't think I can listen to it without thinking of everying I know who I've lost. Evian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:27:47 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: standards..joni's voice At 08:34 PM 1/31/00 -0500, waytoblu@mindspring.com wrote: > >>I don't agree that standards are easy to sing. They're familiar to a >>lot of people but some of them have very complex melodic lines and it >>is *not* easy to sing them *well*. > > >Very true! "Lush Life" by Billy Strayhorn is extremely difficult to sing. > Queen Latifah does a nice version from the sound track to 'Living Out Loud' (an odd movie) Heather ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:59:44 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: In My Dweams In a message dated 1/31/2000 10:58:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, jlamadoo@one.net writes: << I keep having a recurring dream that I'm sailing my Dad's sailboat. >> Ach, Meester Lamadoodad, Dis...now DIS ees a goot esample of ze penis envy. Ze boat..tink about it. Long, pointed, no? You sail mit your fadder so you don't haf to vorry about competing against him, see? Eez safe sat way. Ven you ver a boychick, you enjoyed ze simplicity of zat. But oy vey, vonce you heet your adolescence, you don vant to be sailing mit him no more. No vay. No siree. So mamala, ze vish is to be zat little boychick who no have to vorry about competing for za mutter, for dat vould mean a hatchet to the helm, if you get my drift. Drift! Ha, I make a funny. Ok, I go now. Dr. SigMondegreen. They no haf spell check een the USA? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:33:58 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Biography Does anyone here have any clout in getting Biography to do a story on Joni? If they can do Dick Van Dyke, surely they can do Joni. Sheesh. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:39:31 +0100 From: Roman Subject: viscous lists >You want a viscous list, (can you say that 10x fast?) Well with enough lubrication I could... tube ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:29:35 +0100 From: Roman Subject: strange fruit >Well, suggesting Stevie Nicks is not a force of good in the world could >certainly be construed as asking for a reaction! ;o) Well, you know; 'by their fruits shall ye know them' tube ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:27:37 +0100 From: Roman Subject: The World of Coke >There is a working soda fountain as part of the exhibits in "The World of >Coke", next to Underground in downtown Atlanta, with a resident Jerk >doing demonstrations This would be Lou Reed right? tube ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:47:38 +0100 From: Roman Subject: Ritchie Running Fast (Paints His Shirt Red) Where exactly is Lionel Ritchie on WTRF? tube _______________________________________ Visiting Rome? Visit RomeLife first... http://ROMELIFE.tripod.COM RomeLife Website - For expatriates, students, long-stay holidaymakers and anyone else who needs to know what the travel brochures won't tell you about living in Italy. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:50:29 +0100 From: Roman Subject: I like to watch >In which Peter Sellers film did he say the classic line "I like to watch" >while playing a character called Chauncey Gardener "I like to watch, but it's not as good as 'BEING THERE'". tube _______________________________________ Visiting Rome? Visit RomeLife first... http://ROMELIFE.tripod.COM RomeLife Website - For expatriates, students, long-stay holidaymakers and anyone else who needs to know what the travel brochures won't tell you about living in Italy. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:41:09 +0100 From: Roman Subject: vicious lists >You want a viscous list, (can you say that 10x fast?), try the one for >Thomas >Pynchon. Jesus, Mary and Joseph, does each individual member think they >have >the ONLY interpretation of Pynchon's stuff. Yeah, I tried a Doors list for a week or two once - They had me for breakfast. I probably deserved it - you guys are too patient with me! (Tip - If you ever join a Doors list, don't ever try suggesting that Manzarek was to blame ;-)) Incidentally I've just realised I actually have more Stevie Nicks albums than Joni albums. 4 to 3. tube ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:01:06 +0100 From: Roman Subject: Kate Bush site >Suprisingly, I don't think I have ever checked out a Kate Bush >list/website! >Evian Go to GAFFAWEB - it's the Katie B equivalent of Wally's Joni site - A real mega site with every angle covered, very professional, very good looking, vetted links, the whole trip. Definitive and dedicated. Can't remember the URL - just run a search for gaffaweb, you'll soon turn it up. tube _______________________________________ Visiting Rome? Visit RomeLife first... http://ROMELIFE.tripod.COM RomeLife Website - For expatriates, students, long-stay holidaymakers and anyone else who needs to know what the travel brochures won't tell you about living in Italy. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 01:35:35 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Trippy Music (NJC) Jodi wrote: < Subject: Re: Biography Hi Terry, I emailed this very request a few months back and received a very polite (and immediate) response saying that they get many such suggestions and that they'd consider mine. In other words, hold not thy breath! (Of course, I have zilch in the way of clout with A&E.) However, if a few hundred jmdlers bombard them with emails, they might put it on the front burner. (These videos almost always end up for sale, and I'm sure I'm not the only person here who'd want one ;-) I believe the address is still www.biography.com Cheers, Roberto TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone here have any clout in getting Biography to do a story on Joni? > If they can do Dick Van Dyke, surely they can do Joni. Sheesh. > > Terry ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #63 **************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?