From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V10 #129 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, June 30 2007 Volume 10 : Number 129 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] FOPP RIPP ["Clements, Bruno - BUP" ] RE: [idealcopy] FOPP RIPP ["Andy Lumbard" ] RE: [idealcopy] FOPP RIP ["Clements, Bruno - BUP" ] Re: [idealcopy] FOPP RIP [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] FOPP RIP ["David McKenzie" ] RE: [idealcopy] FOPP RIP ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] FOPP RIP [denniswygmans@comcast.net] [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V10 #128 OT FOPP [tony clough Subject: RE: [idealcopy] FOPP RIPP >>>>Tim wrote: why have 3 Fopp shops in Bristol and 2 down the road in Bath?! Thats madness.<<<< I suppose Fopp's theory is that lunchtime shoppers will blowing 20 or 30 quid on four or five discs which they wouldn't do if they had to spend 20 minutes walking to a different store - and they can be quite busy at times. The newer Bath shop now stocks a good range of DVDs, which there isn't space for in the arcade shop, but the price of operating a big store in Bath must be considerable (even if it isn't in a particularly busy area, for Bath). More seriously, the Fopp phenomena (where new back-catalogue CDs cost less or much the same as second-hand discs) has (at least partly) resulted in the closure of all Bristol's second-hand shops which would reduced lunchtime opportunities to HMV/Virgin/Woolworths and their high prices and corporate outlook... On a more positive note I enjoyed the Luminescent Orchestrii's performance for free in a Bath pub on Ari's recommendation. Suitably manic and harmonic in turns. Well worth checking out. Bruno www.thisisnorthcliffe.co.uk Any opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual and not necessarily the company. This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software. Warning: Computer viruses may be transmitted or downloaded onto any computer system via e-mail communication. It is the recipientbs responsibility to take appropriate action to prevent computer viruses being transmitted In this way. Accordingly Northcliffe Media Ltd disclaim all responsibility which arises directly or indirectly from such transmission of computer viruses. Northcliffe Media Ltd. Registered Office: Northcliffe Accounting Centre, PO Box 6795 St George Street, Leicester, LE1 1ZP, co no 272225, Registered in England and Wales, VAT no 243571174. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 06:50:17 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FOPP RIPP >>They should never have bought up the Music Zone shops. They've suddenly got 37 new shops, plus a load more boarded-up shops to dispose of and all the Music Zone leftover stock which is presumably a warehouse full of Spice Girls, Ocean Colour Scene, Reef and Lenny Kravitz CDs. Absolute insanity in the current music retail climate. And why have 3 Fopp shops in Bristol and 2 down the road in Bath?! Thats madness.<< Growth through acquisition is very seductive for businesses - I guiess Fopp is a private company and the boss wants to get his big payday through an IPO or something - and a bigger business becomes more marketable as a stock exchange flotation. Buying Music Zone may have seemed opportunistic but as you say, the stores are different in style and stock - and the geographical fit is poor. It would have been better in the long run to simply continue organic growth - opening stores where it makes sense to. I guess it's recoverable - closing and selling stores and retrenching the business. >>> Yikes! Only #184,000 profits for #40 million in sales? Is FOPP using a > Factory Records business plan? ;-)<< At least it's a profit. ROC of 0.46% isn't sparkling (cf Tesco at 7.6%) but it's OK especially if a business is growing and ploughing its profits back in to expanison. But I guess thet's been dragged down since the last set of accounts. Trouble is Fopp's model is rapidly becoing obsolete. And it is disruptive, especially to independent record shops. Worst case scenario - Fopp forces local independent shops out of business, then goes bust itself... leaving town with no record shop at all. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:46:38 +0100 (BST) From: PAUL RABJOHN Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FOPP RIPP yes i just took a walk up to town and Fopp solihull has the doors locked and the lights off :-( yes it would be lovely to have a cool indie / secondhand shop but solihull never had that in the first place , this was by far the best shop in this town since the late 80's. i don't understand the economics of a record shop these days , i just can't see how you could make it work. even birmingham has just 2 secondhand shops now , late 80's there were probably a dozen. sad stuff. p MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >>They should never have bought up the Music Zone shops. They've suddenly got 37 new shops, plus a load more boarded-up shops to dispose of and all the Music Zone leftover stock which is presumably a warehouse full of Spice Girls, Ocean Colour Scene, Reef and Lenny Kravitz CDs. Absolute insanity in the current music retail climate. And why have 3 Fopp shops in Bristol and 2 down the road in Bath?! Thats madness.<< Growth through acquisition is very seductive for businesses - I guiess Fopp is a private company and the boss wants to get his big payday through an IPO or something - and a bigger business becomes more marketable as a stock exchange flotation. Buying Music Zone may have seemed opportunistic but as you say, the stores are different in style and stock - and the geographical fit is poor. It would have been better in the long run to simply continue organic growth - opening stores where it makes sense to. I guess it's recoverable - closing and selling stores and retrenching the business. >>> Yikes! Only #184,000 profits for #40 million in sales? Is FOPP using a > Factory Records business plan? ;-)<< At least it's a profit. ROC of 0.46% isn't sparkling (cf Tesco at 7.6%) but it's OK especially if a business is growing and ploughing its profits back in to expanison. But I guess thet's been dragged down since the last set of accounts. Trouble is Fopp's model is rapidly becoing obsolete. And it is disruptive, especially to independent record shops. Worst case scenario - Fopp forces local independent shops out of business, then goes bust itself... leaving town with no record shop at all. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 14:50:50 +0100 From: "Andy Lumbard" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] FOPP RIPP The word from the biz is that they are all closed today (Friday), but as the rent is due on all their shops tomorrow at midnight, they will be open for business tomorrow, and that'll be it. There is no money for the rent. Don't expect too many bargains, their suppliers are already building contigencies to get tehir stock returned. AndyL - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of MarkBursa@aol.com Sent: 29 June 2007 11:50 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FOPP RIPP >>They should never have bought up the Music Zone shops. They've >>suddenly got 37 new shops, plus a load more boarded-up shops to dispose of and all the Music Zone leftover stock which is presumably a warehouse full of Spice Girls, Ocean Colour Scene, Reef and Lenny Kravitz CDs. Absolute insanity in the current music retail climate. And why have 3 Fopp shops in Bristol and 2 down the road in Bath?! Thats madness.<< Growth through acquisition is very seductive for businesses - I guiess Fopp is a private company and the boss wants to get his big payday through an IPO or something - and a bigger business becomes more marketable as a stock exchange flotation. Buying Music Zone may have seemed opportunistic but as you say, the stores are different in style and stock - and the geographical fit is poor. It would have been better in the long run to simply continue organic growth - opening stores where it makes sense to. I guess it's recoverable - closing and selling stores and retrenching the business. >>> Yikes! Only #184,000 profits for #40 million in sales? Is FOPP using a > Factory Records business plan? ;-)<< At least it's a profit. ROC of 0.46% isn't sparkling (cf Tesco at 7.6%) but it's OK especially if a business is growing and ploughing its profits back in to expanison. But I guess thet's been dragged down since the last set of accounts. Trouble is Fopp's model is rapidly becoing obsolete. And it is disruptive, especially to independent record shops. Worst case scenario - Fopp forces local independent shops out of business, then goes bust itself... leaving town with no record shop at all. Mark No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/863 - Release Date: 23/06/2007 11:08 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/863 - Release Date: 23/06/2007 11:08 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 16:10:54 +0100 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] FOPP RIP http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6252300.stm Indeed RIP it is - according to the above it's shut for good, dammit. B www.thisisnorthcliffe.co.uk Any opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual and not necessarily the company. This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software. Warning: Computer viruses may be transmitted or downloaded onto any computer system via e-mail communication. It is the recipientbs responsibility to take appropriate action to prevent computer viruses being transmitted In this way. Accordingly Northcliffe Media Ltd disclaim all responsibility which arises directly or indirectly from such transmission of computer viruses. Northcliffe Media Ltd. Registered Office: Northcliffe Accounting Centre, PO Box 6795 St George Street, Leicester, LE1 1ZP, co no 272225, Registered in England and Wales, VAT no 243571174. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:07:35 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FOPP RIP >>Indeed RIP it is - according to the above it's shut for good, dammit.<< I'd expect to see receivership and a sale of a much-reduced business (minus the Musiczone shops), probably to some form of management buy-out. That's what usually happens in these circumstances.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 12:24:31 -0500 From: "David McKenzie" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FOPP RIP The music business model has historical victimized the retail end. There is no margin left after record company and distributor profits. Large chains were able to operate with retail music as loss leaders or huge economies of scale. But there isn't enough money left at that end with online sales and digital formats. Speaking as someone who has spent more hours in record shops than I care to admit, this hurts. But the reality is that the retail end has been bled dry long before online distribution ramped up. Remaining retail outlets are running mostly on inertia (small as that is). I might argue that once you shrunk the form factor down from LP to CD is was just a matter of time before the tactile music shopping experience became irrelevant. Our grandchildren will likely find the notion as quaint as the crank on a Victrola. On 6/29/07, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > > >>Indeed RIP it is - according to the above it's shut for good, dammit.<< > > > I'd expect to see receivership and a sale of a much-reduced > business (minus > the Musiczone shops), probably to some form of management buy-out. That's > what usually happens in these circumstances.... > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 19:05:44 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] FOPP RIP Gaah, a black day indeed. If Borders closes (I am addicted to its magazine section) it won't be worth leaving the house. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of MarkBursa@aol.com Sent: 29 June 2007 18:08 To: B.Clements@bepp.co.uk; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FOPP RIP >>Indeed RIP it is - according to the above it's shut for good, dammit.<< I'd expect to see receivership and a sale of a much-reduced business (minus the Musiczone shops), probably to some form of management buy-out. That's what usually happens in these circumstances.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:31:57 +0000 From: denniswygmans@comcast.net Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FOPP RIP This is just the begining of the end my friends. As was mentioned earlier, HMV is teetering on the brink of bankruptcy and have seen their sales plummet over the abyss. Here in the states, itunes has just overtaken the independent alliance of moms & pops shops as the number 3 distributor of music. There is also a rumor going around that this Christmas will be the last hurrah for the CD, because the box stores (#1 walmart and #2 best buy) won't any longer provide shelf space for CD's in an effort to force the labels to help them compete with itunes online. The labels aren't prepared to help in any way, because all the remaining employees are too busy trying to figure out how to save their jobs or are just simply igonoring the issues hoping it will all just go away. There will still be music and there will still be bands, and there will still be a major label or two. But there will not be as many millionaire band members and the successful ones will have to be dumb and beautiful or real smart and hands on. Dennis - -------------- Original message -------------- From: "David McKenzie" > The music business model has historical victimized the retail end. > There is no margin left after record company and distributor profits. > Large chains were able to operate with retail music as loss leaders or huge > economies of scale. > But there isn't enough money left at that end with online sales and digital > formats. > Speaking as someone who has spent more hours in record shops than I care to > admit, this hurts. > But the reality is that the retail end has been bled dry long before online > distribution ramped up. > Remaining retail outlets are running mostly on inertia (small as that is). > > I might argue that once you shrunk the form factor down from LP to CD is was > just a matter of time before the tactile music shopping experience became > irrelevant. Our grandchildren will likely find the notion as quaint as the > crank on a Victrola. > > > On 6/29/07, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > > > > >>Indeed RIP it is - according to the above it's shut for good, dammit.<< > > > > > > I'd expect to see receivership and a sale of a much-reduced > > business (minus > > the Musiczone shops), probably to some form of management buy-out. That's > > what usually happens in these circumstances.... > > > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:50:10 +0100 From: tony clough Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V10 #128 OT FOPP This is sad. I was in there last week when they were only taking cash due to "technical difficulties". I'd been struggling to understand how they could make the shops pay with what I assume to be very small mark-ups though its conceivable that someone could make that type of shop work and compete with internet prices if the used the "stack it high sell it cheap" principle that Virgin used to use, with nothing spent on the "shopping experience". T. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V10 #129 ********************************