From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V9 #264 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, October 20 2006 Volume 09 : Number 264 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Back together again... ["Clements, Bruno - BUP" ] RE: [idealcopy] Back together again... ["Clements, Bruno - BUP" ] Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] Back together again.../dad's file [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... ["David McKenzie" ] Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... ["David McKenzie" Subject: [idealcopy] Back together again... Mock you lot, mock, but I haven't seen them for 23 years and would quite fancy seeing them again... (provided it doesn't clash with VdGG, Wire...) http://www.nme.com/news/genesis/24780 Besides, CN lists them in his list of band he likes so they can't be ALL bad! Bruno ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:30:11 +0100 (BST) From: Gary or Lizz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... Welll.. I must admit to liking Genesis, but the Peter Gabriel led group where/are light years away from the Phil Collins AOR style dross that appear to be ready to unleash themselves on the world again.. I think its time for the Brasseye episode with our Phil in it, to be aired again.... "Clements, Bruno - BUP" wrote: Mock you lot, mock, but I haven't seen them for 23 years and would quite fancy seeing them again... (provided it doesn't clash with VdGG, Wire...) http://www.nme.com/news/genesis/24780 Besides, CN lists them in his list of band he likes so they can't be ALL bad! Bruno ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 07:54:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... Bruno!! I thought yu had taste!! Genesis were never any good once P.G left them, personaly I can't stand Phill Collins, he should have stayed with drumming.............A - ----- Original Message ---- From: Gary or Lizz To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:30:11 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... Welll.. I must admit to liking Genesis, but the Peter Gabriel led group where/are light years away from the Phil Collins AOR style dross that appear to be ready to unleash themselves on the world again.. I think its time for the Brasseye episode with our Phil in it, to be aired again.... "Clements, Bruno - BUP" wrote: Mock you lot, mock, but I haven't seen them for 23 years and would quite fancy seeing them again... (provided it doesn't clash with VdGG, Wire...) http://www.nme.com/news/genesis/24780 Besides, CN lists them in his list of band he likes so they can't be ALL bad! Bruno ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:21:24 +0100 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Back together again... Ha, ha... well, as I say my bad taste is shared by at least one member of our group (though perhaps he only likes PG-vintage Genesis). B - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Ari Sent: 19 October 2006 15:55 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... Bruno!! I thought yu had taste!! Genesis were never any good once P.G left them, personaly I can't stand Phill Collins, he should have stayed with drumming.............A - ----- Original Message ---- From: Gary or Lizz To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:30:11 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... Welll.. I must admit to liking Genesis, but the Peter Gabriel led group where/are light years away from the Phil Collins AOR style dross that appear to be ready to unleash themselves on the world again.. I think its time for the Brasseye episode with our Phil in it, to be aired again.... "Clements, Bruno - BUP" wrote: Mock you lot, mock, but I haven't seen them for 23 years and would quite fancy seeing them again... (provided it doesn't clash with VdGG, Wire...) http://www.nme.com/news/genesis/24780 Besides, CN lists them in his list of band he likes so they can't be ALL bad! Bruno ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:43:11 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... Besides, CN lists them in his list of band he likes so they can't be ALL bad! Oh yes they can. Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:44:15 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... Ari, >>Genesis were never any good once P.G left them, << The last four words are superfluous. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:57:11 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... On Thu, Oct 19, 2006 at 11:44:15AM -0400, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: [We Can't Dance, Sing, Play, or Bring Ourselves To Care] > > The last four words are superfluous. Sometimes, having been born after punk is something I'm very, very grateful for. Genesis are in the file of Bands My Dad Likes; about the only escapee from that, for me, has been Neil Young. (I quite like some Neil Young.) Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:03:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... HA!! (agreed) (though I did like selling england, but then I was a hippy back then) OUCH STOPPIT,......... A - ----- Original Message ---- From: "MarkBursa@aol.com" To: threeduggaduggas@yahoo.com; idealcopy@smoe.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 11:44:15 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... Ari, >>Genesis were never any good once P.G left them, << The last four words are superfluous. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:06:56 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... Genesis, together with Yes and ELP are the most obvious examples of genre prog-rock, the best manual of rock's definition of avoid-notes. Genesis were far better than the other two, though, if it consoles anyone. I still believe that the Phil Collins drumming for John Cale and Brian Eno in the 70's is a different person with the same name. cheers giluz On 10/19/06, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > > Ari, > > > >>Genesis were never any good once P.G left them, << > > > > The last four words are superfluous. > > > Mark > - -- Now playing: http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:10:18 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again.../dad's file On Thu, Oct 19, 2006 at 09:05:33AM -0700, Ari wrote: > what about V.U Andrew, and Frank Zappa.......... You think my dad likes those?! More likely to be Yes, Sky, the Moody Blues, the Strawbs... Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:05:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again.../dad's file what about V.U Andrew, and Frank Zappa.......... - ----- Original Message ---- From: Andrew Walkingshaw To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 11:57:11 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... On Thu, Oct 19, 2006 at 11:44:15AM -0400, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: [We Can't Dance, Sing, Play, or Bring Ourselves To Care] > > The last four words are superfluous. Sometimes, having been born after punk is something I'm very, very grateful for. Genesis are in the file of Bands My Dad Likes; about the only escapee from that, for me, has been Neil Young. (I quite like some Neil Young.) Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:21:00 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... >>Genesis, together with Yes and ELP are the most obvious examples of genre prog-rock, the best manual of rock's definition of avoid-notes. Genesis were far better than the other two, though, if it consoles anyone.<< Not sure I'd agree with that. First couple of Yes albums (almost pre-prog) have more to commend them than anything I've ever heard from Genesis. ELP are utterly execrable. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:17:19 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... >>Lamb Lies Down on Broadway has it's moments<< The run-out groove? The sound of it being put back in its sleeve? >>Yes have had many decent ones as well. Most of which occurred with Tony Kay. Relayer has flashes of pure genius.<< I've seen clips of very early Yes where they sound like English Krautrock, though I suspect this is a long time before Relayer. First album, if not before the first album. Worthy of further attentioin I thought; prog hasn't yet become set in its horrid ways in 1969. >>Odour of a Lonely Fart characterizes the Trevor Horn era.<< Ah, that Yes/Buggles intersection. A lose-lose situation for all concerned! >>Carl Palmer is a supurb drummer, but that is not surfficient to rescue ELP. Prog/Fusion tended to attract real quality drumming. Simon Phillips comes to mind. Brilliant on 801 Live and totally unworthy of any further attention in any other context.<< Or even the post-punker's progger of choice, Charles Hayward. Quiet Sun and 801 Live are two of the few prog albums I own (combined cost - one of your english pounds). But fancy musicianship is never enough to rescue anything. In fact therein lie the seeds of prog's unpalatable nature... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:31:21 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Joanna Newsom All this talk of Genesis leads to thinking about long songs and reminds me to alert you to this piece in last week's Observer on Joanna Newsom, whose new album Ys is out in a few weeks: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1922502,00.html 16 minute long tracks - that's the spirit! Now, I am not exactly a fan of her first album and I find her voice irritating beyond belief, but this piece just has me salivating. Mind you, namechecking Rock Bottom, Horses and Henry Cow is always going to work. another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:25:21 -0500 From: "David McKenzie" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... .02 Lamb Lies Down on Broadway has it's moments Yes have had many decent ones as well. Most of which occurred with Tony Kay. Relayer has flashes of pure genius. Odour of a Lonely Fart characterizes the Trevor Horn era. Carl Palmer is a supurb drummer, but that is not surfficient to rescue ELP. Prog/Fusion tended to attract real quality drumming. Simon Phillips comes to mind. Brilliant on 801 Live and totally unworthy of any further attention in any other context. On 10/19/06, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > >>Genesis, together with Yes and ELP are the most obvious examples of > genre > prog-rock, the best manual of rock's definition of avoid-notes. Genesis > were > far better than the other two, though, if it consoles anyone.<< > > Not sure I'd agree with that. First couple of Yes albums > (almost pre-prog) > have more to commend them than anything I've ever heard from Genesis. ELP > are > utterly execrable. > > Mark > - -- http://ReliableSoundProducts.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:16:36 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Back together again... Gabriel-era Genesis were a challenging band in all sorts of ways, musically, lyrically, conceptually. Nursery Cryme, especially is a strange work of English imagination, suffused with creepy and memorable imagery - I still remember the first time I heard it and the immediate impact it had on me, like stepping into another world. Foxtrot was its equal, but Selling England has too many muso longeurs for my liking and Gabriel's lyrics were mannered on this album. Lamb Lies Down was something of a return to form although the concept seemed too obtuse for its own good. Great stage show on that tour though. After Gabriel, it was one mediocre album, Trick of the Tail, and then a decline into dire MOR mediocrity. I don't play the good albums anymore, mainly because I don't need to as I can conjure up huge chunks in my head (which is a bit disturbing when it's The Battle of Epping Forest, a song I really don't care for). Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Clements, Bruno - BUP Sent: 19 October 2006 16:21 To: 'idealcopy@smoe.org' Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Back together again... Ha, ha... well, as I say my bad taste is shared by at least one member of our group (though perhaps he only likes PG-vintage Genesis). B - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Ari Sent: 19 October 2006 15:55 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... Bruno!! I thought yu had taste!! Genesis were never any good once P.G left them, personaly I can't stand Phill Collins, he should have stayed with drumming.............A - ----- Original Message ---- From: Gary or Lizz To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:30:11 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... Welll.. I must admit to liking Genesis, but the Peter Gabriel led group where/are light years away from the Phil Collins AOR style dross that appear to be ready to unleash themselves on the world again.. I think its time for the Brasseye episode with our Phil in it, to be aired again.... "Clements, Bruno - BUP" wrote: Mock you lot, mock, but I haven't seen them for 23 years and would quite fancy seeing them again... (provided it doesn't clash with VdGG, Wire...) http://www.nme.com/news/genesis/24780 Besides, CN lists them in his list of band he likes so they can't be ALL bad! Bruno ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:18:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... 801 eh, they still gigging 'somewhere on planet earth'? - ----- Original Message ---- From: David McKenzie To: "MarkBursa@aol.com" Cc: giluzzz@gmail.com; idealcopy@smoe.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:25:21 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... .02 Lamb Lies Down on Broadway has it's moments Yes have had many decent ones as well. Most of which occurred with Tony Kay. Relayer has flashes of pure genius. Odour of a Lonely Fart characterizes the Trevor Horn era. Carl Palmer is a supurb drummer, but that is not surfficient to rescue ELP. Prog/Fusion tended to attract real quality drumming. Simon Phillips comes to mind. Brilliant on 801 Live and totally unworthy of any further attention in any other context. On 10/19/06, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > >>Genesis, together with Yes and ELP are the most obvious examples of > genre > prog-rock, the best manual of rock's definition of avoid-notes. Genesis > were > far better than the other two, though, if it consoles anyone.<< > > Not sure I'd agree with that. First couple of Yes albums > (almost pre-prog) > have more to commend them than anything I've ever heard from Genesis. ELP > are > utterly execrable. > > Mark > - -- http://ReliableSoundProducts.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:27:55 -0500 From: "David McKenzie" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... > Or even the post-punker's progger of choice, Charles Hayward. Quiet Sun > and 801 Live are two of the few prog albums I own (combined cost - one of > your english pounds). > i HAVE NO ENGLISH POUNDS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 21:02:42 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Joanna Newsom >>16 minute long tracks - that's the spirit! Now, I am not exactly a fan of her first album and I find her voice irritating beyond belief, but this piece just has me salivating. Mind you, namechecking Rock Bottom, Horses and Henry Cow is always going to work.<< You'd better hope they're 16-minute instrumentals! The most annoying ickle girlie voice known to humanity. The music woudl have to be bloody good to get past that... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 21:21:32 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Back together again... >>801 eh, they still gigging 'somewhere on planet earth'?<< Heavens no. They were a glam/prog supergroup (included Brian Eno & Phil Manzanera out of Roxy) that existed for a very short time in 1976. I think they played 3 gigs and that was it. The album was recorded live at the QEH in London. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 21:26:33 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Manicured Noise, Artery Most excellent news. The great lost Manchester post-punk band Manicured Noise finally gets a compilation, containing sessions/demos etc as well as their two singles. Released courtesy of John Kertland's excellent Caroline True label... Chuffed to bits about this - ordered it already ;-) Here be details: _www.myspace.www.myspace.