From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #59 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, February 26 2002 Volume 05 : Number 059 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Radiohead vs Wire ["Giacomo" ] [idealcopy] Fwd: this is truly funny!!!/O.T [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] O'Rourke [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Radiohead vs Wire ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] exciting tracks ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: O'Rourke ["ian.s. jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: O'Rourke ["Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Radiohead vs Wire Radiohead are the most important band of the last ten years. What the did with music is unbelievable. Pablo Honey was a good album; the Bends and OK Computer two masterpieces. But Kid A and Amnesiac are gorgeus, the "Berlin trilogy" (in spite of they're two) of the '90. I still remember when I listened to Kid A for the first time... Radiohead, the Smashing Pumpinks and few other bands has really changed music of '90. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 04:18:48 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Fwd: this is truly funny!!!/O.T Note: forwarded message attached. ===== everything in moderation is good for you,including excess. Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: luvjazzz@yahoo.com via web11207.mail.yahoo.com; 24 Feb 2002 19:02:44 -0800 (PST) X-Track: 1: 40 Return-Path: Received: from mail309.mail.bellsouth.net (EHLO imf09bis.bellsouth.net) (205.152.58.169) by mta583.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2002 19:02:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from Starfucker ([216.78.33.93]) by imf09bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with SMTP id <20020225030402.ZMVJ13517.imf09bis.bellsouth.net@Starfucker>; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 22:04:02 -0500 From: "Scott Yaffee" To: "Wil" , "TAE the Lovely" , "SugarMuffinR" , "steff" , "sky" , "Skrewzan" , "sally" , "PhilOnlineAlways" , "Pat" , "Ms Docta" , "KNE going Postal" , "Julie" , "JONECROTIC" , "JoNaThAn" , "Jazzman" , "JaeCie" , "Hurwitz Sandi" , "garyH" , "Bill the Shrink" , "beth" , "barb" , "ARC" Subject: this is truly funny!!! Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 22:02:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Length: 470 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.97c X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain http://www.teamhouse.tni.net/stickpeople1.html enjoy, Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 04:24:08 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Fwd: Re: [idealcopy] Radiohead vs Wire Paul wrote: > > > This is actually an exercise I've been working on > for a while. Editing Kid > A/Amnesiac into a single CD. Currently, I'm pretty > happy with the > following running order (but you have to use an 80 > minute CD...) > > Everything in its right place > Pyramid Song > Optimistic > In Limbo > You and whose army > I might be wrong > Dollars & Cents > Idioteque > Morning bell > Packt like sardines in a crush tin box > The National Anthem > How to disappear completely > Morning bell - amnesiac > Knives out > Hunting bears > Like Spinning plates > Motion picture soundtrack > > I call it "A Kid Amnesiac". (^_^) > > Cheers, > Paul ............... wish you hadn't done that Paul,can't sleep thinking about it.Ari ===== everything in moderation is good for you,including excess. Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:11:40 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O'Rourke Ian, << as i'm not as inclined towards that kind of stuff anyway...i've not heard any of his laptop stuff yet, getting a burn of 'I'm Happy...' soon hopefully...so these are the views of someone who only likes O'Rourke as the new Bacharach... just one of those things, i suppose, it clicks or it don't...<< I've got Insignificance (which is, as Ian rightly points out, brilliant), Eureka (a bit tooo lounge but certainly well worth having) and I recently picked up I'm happy.... which is basically three long electronic pieces. It's nice, but for me will never be anything other than pleasant background.... i had heard hardly any Gastr Del Sol or anything of his, before the release of 'Eureka', and i really wasn't sure about it for the first couple of listens. admittedly the Ivor Cutler cover version on Eureka drew me in and kept me listening. everyone that has replied, so far, has seemed to concentrate on the musical side of Jim's stuff, which is fine, but, i really like the way these biting, disturbingly dark lyrics are couched in what are, esssentially, 'easy-listening' backing tracks. >and on top of it all he seems to be a twat (see the Nov. 2001 issue >#213 of the WIRE magazine)...i just don't get it.. hahaha, er..., then count me in on the twat-count then!! i totally identified with his views on music and being a 'musician' in that piece. i'm curious...what was it that made you think he was a twat? >> Same here. Don't see how he came across as a twat at all. He seems a highly intelligent guy who's coming from a different direction to traditional rock musicians - almost a latter-day John Cale. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 16:53:49 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Radiohead vs Wire > They covered "The Thief" (Can) on their Kid A tour. i was really interested when i first heard about this. can's 'delay 1968' is one of my fave alltime albums, but no-one ever seems to go on about it. i remember being in penny lane records, chester, in about '83 and they were playing the album and before i asked who it was by i couldn't work out whether it was an old record years ahead of it's time or a new one with a retro feel. 'thief' is my fave track on the album (although i love 'butterfly' and 'bethlehem' too) and is one of my alltime favourite track, even though the guitar reminds me of mike oldfield on 'tubalar bells'. i haven't heard radioheads version as yet, but i'd be really interested to. keith n. p. (appropriately enough) 'amnesiac' (i particularly like 'i might be wrong') MP3s aren't hard to > get hold of off the Radiohead fansites. is 'thief' readily available? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:23:57 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] exciting tracks i really do think that the (hives) single > genuinely creates the spirit of '77, something which lots of people try but > invariably fail. ash spring to mind here. just can't see what the fuss is > about myself. people who know me and my tastes expect me to like them, cos > they know i'm sucker for a good tune and ash were supposedly the buzzcocks > of the 90's (snip) /////good grief , can i dare to suggest that the slight difference between those acts is that ash are maybe the most desperately appalling act of recent times , against stiff competition it must be said. they are so fucking awful they make the manics look almost bearable. i said almost. i even saw them live once (supporting elastica) and they were even worse. apologies if i am late responding but i have been freezing my arse off in sweden , where nobody seems to have heard of the hives (hmmm). just to say on a couple of threads i think zounds and the mob were excellent and i have come around to liking radiohead. i'd have thought anybody liking early wire would warm to the early colin/dome stuff at least , blanket dismissal is a little surprising. and electronica rules , apart from the stuff that sucks. most embarassing cd ; first utah saints album. i must have had an odd day. most embarassing lp ; where do i start? how about "strip" by adam ant (i think it was 49p , but i know that's no excuse) p (36 but looks much younger) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 17:36:25 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Nina Simone giluz said > I've seen Nina Simone about 10 years ago, accompanied by a minimalist band > with arrangements that reminded me of Henry Cow and their like. I was one of > the only two people in the audience that enjoyed the show. i remember being in a minority when i saw suicide supprt siouxsie & the banshees at liverpool in the late 80's. the siouxsie crowd HATED them. me and my mate loved them, but apart from us you could hear only the odd individual cheer from around the theatre. the rest of the audience was split between silence and abuse. i'd heard about the hostility they'd faced whilst supporting the clash at the height of punk, but this was late 88 and i thought people would have been more tolerant and open-minded (and that suicides music wouldn't sound so extreme). evidently i was wrong. there must be something about suicide, because i remember doing a compilation tape for a girl and she loved every track on it except a solo alan vega and a solo martin rev one. i thought they were pretty commercial and though musically they were miles apart from each other, she hated both. anyway, suicide were truly great and there was one fab moment when rev left the drum machine running and went and stood at the front of the stage with vega and stared at the audience who just grew increasingly hostile at the duo, who in turn just stood their ground. i'm sure some of the audience would have killed them there and then if they could have got at them. my other fave moment - apart from the superb opening 'christ dice' - was when a rather overweight vega, fed up of the 'you fat bastard' abuse, just said in his best new yawk drawl, "fat's where it's at, man". classic. > was lifeless, couldn't sing, blah blah blah - they expected to see a jazz > singer and got something completely different instead. Everyone liked the > support except for me - it was DD Bridgewater with her endless audience arse > licking - now, that's a really BAD singer, though she's never out of tune. i don't know DD Bridgewater, but i know what you're saying here. singing's not just about being able to 'sing', otherwise we'd all be listening to pavarotti. it's just that that when i saw nina on telly she was..well 'lifeless' descs her as well as anything. the likes of johnny rotten and marc almond have tended to sing around the notes shall we say, but i'd rather them, sean ryder and mark e smith than more traditionally gifted singers like maria carey or sir cliff. and if i want to listen to a 'proper' singer, i'll listen to scott walker or latterday billy mackenzie (or put one of my girlfiends kd lang albums on). technique without the sterility. keith np nirvana 'in utero' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 17:41:28 +0000 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Radiohead vs Wire On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 04:53:49PM -0000, Keith Astbury wrote: > > MP3s aren't hard to > > get hold of off the Radiohead fansites. > > is 'thief' readily available? I'm sorry this wasn't clear: typing "radiohead victoria park thief mp3" into Google is likely to return some interesting results, not that I know anything about potential copyright violations. Waiting for the cease-and-desist from the RIAA, Andrew - -- "Dissect a trillion sighs away - well, you got this letter, Jagged pulse slicing my veins; I write to remember." - At the Drive-In, "One Armed Scissor" ('Relationship of Command') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:14:25 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Band Potential I've got Shivering Man and three Newman solo Lps but that's it. Does being partial to organic veg count? John - --- Ari Britt wrote: > Paul wrote:i wonder, is there anyone here who > doesn't > like ANY of the non-wire > projects? > > -paul (muzi) c.d. > I must admit that,apart from 'he said she said',the > onlt Wire 'related' stuff I like is by Colin.the > rest?nah! .Ari > > ===== > everything in moderation is good for you,including > excess. > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > http://sports.yahoo.com Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:23:26 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] exciting tracks Oddly enough me and a mate waded through a couple of my singles boxes the other night. Long time since I heard some of the singles in there. We had on the first Zounds ep, Mob 'Witch Hunt', Honey Bane 'Girl on the Run', Subhumans 'Evolution', etc. But there were some anarcho punk bands not mentioned below: the only one I can remember is The System's 'Warfare' ep on Spiderleg. We also played some really bobbins stuff like Six Minute War 'More Short Songs', and Blitzkreig 'Lest We Forget', and god help me an e.p. compiled by Garry Bushell called Total Noise which featured The Business and The Gonads amongst others. Should have made my most embarrassing records list methinks. Anyone remember any of these? John - --- dan bailey wrote: > true enough (i'm also partial to the epileptics' > what've you got to smile > about) ... a couple of decades on, it's common to > hear the anarcho bands > dismissed as a bunch of tuneless soundalikes, but > the best definitely > deviated sharply from discharge clonehood -- mob, > flux, omegas, zounds, > peni, instigators, hit parade, lost cherrees, hagar > the womb, subhumans, > poison girls, amebix (whose first couple of records > owed lots more to > killing joke than to grindcore, which come to think > of it i suppose they > sort of invented -- nothing to be particularly proud > of, though), etc. & for > all their album-length shortcomings, crass songs > like shaved women, big a > little a, bloody revolutions, nagasaki nightmare, > etc were pretty damned > chance-taking in those dark days of ... hmmm, what > was big in punk circles > back then? oi? > > dan > > > > >The Zounds album is a classic. On the Flux thread > "The 1970's Have Been > Made > >In Hong Kong" in their earlier incarnation as The > Epileptics was another > >great single. Dirt - "Object/Refuse" and The Mob - > "No Doves Cry Here" are > >two other greats from that time that spring to > mind. > > > >Steve > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On > >Behalf Of dan bailey > >Sent: 23 February 2002 12:41 > >To: idealcopy > >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] exciting tracks > > > > > >correct -- changed my sign-on a couple of years ago > because occasional > >e-mails to work as "tube disaster" just didn't > seem, ah, seemly (though > even > >so that was probably better than the previous > "antichrist newsboy," from a > >terrorist group in tom dehaven's novel "freaks > amour"). > > > >great, great song ... rivaled amongst classic > anarcho 7"s only by the > poison > >girls/crass (great singles, tedious lp's) split & > the first hit parade, i'd > >say. the strive to survive lp was, i thought, one > of the better albums from > >that subgenre as well (along with the debuts by > zounds, instigators & omega > >tribe -- seems like i'm forgetting at least one, > though, & of course there > >were much later efforts by chumbawamba & blyth > power), but certainly > nothing > >on it stood out like t.d. flux's 2nd was an > adventure in endurance -- the > >fact that i've got 2 copies is testament only to my > willingness to pick up > a > >mint one for $5 at the store behind my former house > for eventual e-bay > >resale. don't have anything of theirs after that, > though the eventual dance > >offshoot hotalico(sp?) sounded from reviews like it > might be interesting > ... > > > >dan > > > > > >>That would be Dan. If I'm right he used to sign > >>himself off as Tube Disaster. Yes, a cracking EP. > >>The LP lost a bit of impetus really. And as for > the > >>second LP...? Was quite partial to Uncarved Block > >>though. > >> > >>Best Pistols? Holidays in the Sun and I Wanna Be > Me. > >> > >>John, still 34. > >> > >>--- Keith Astbury > wrote: > >>> Sorry can't remember who and i've deleted > message, > >>> but someone mentioned the Q > >>> mag 50 most exciting tracks (i too prefer other > >>> pistols stuff to 'GSTQ') and > >>> then mentioned 'tube disaster'. > >>> is that the flux of pink indians one we're > talking > >>> about. i haven't got > >>> anything else by them but that - from the neu > smell > >>> poem to the ferocious punk > >>> riff of 'T.D.' - was a fantastic record. > >>> think i might have to dig that out and give it a > >>> whirl... > >>> keith > >>Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > >>http://sports.yahoo.com Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:31:59 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: OT-the fall - rare consensus shock > Still, for me, The Infotainment Scan has a couple of > classic tracks: "It's > a curse" and especially "A Past Gone Mad". > > This is definitely from The Fall's "flirting with > electronica" phase. > Bush's keyboards really set the tone on a number of > songs here. > > Cheers, > Paul Bloody hell. Agreement on a Fall LP? Whatever next? John 8-) Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:35:27 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Mob The Mob album was rereleased on CD recently. It's got all the singles on as well. I still haven't got a copy of it myself. They did the same with the ZOunds LP by including all the singles bar La Vache Qui Rite. DIRT was the single I couldn't remember from the other night. Did you ever get the LP? God it was awful. The current DIRT guitarist, Debbie, is yet another famous Leicester export. John - --- Scott Kellock wrote: > >The Zounds album is a classic. On the Flux thread > "The 1970's Have Been > Made > >In Hong Kong" in their earlier incarnation as The > Epileptics was another > >great single. Dirt - "Object/Refuse" and The Mob - > "No Doves Cry Here" are > >two other greats from that time that spring to > mind. > > > >Steve > > Glad you mentioned The Mob Album, Been trying to > replace my vinyl copy for a > cd. Does anyone want to burn me of a copy. > Scott Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:41:07 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] exciting tracks > god help me an e.p. compiled by > Garry Bushell called Total Noise which featured The > Business and The Gonads amongst others. hang your head in shame john! i once stood next to garry bushell at a urinal. thinking back, i should have pissed on him... keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:00:31 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] exciting tracks > i really do think that the (hives) single > > genuinely creates the spirit of '77, something which lots of people try but > > invariably fail. ash spring to mind here. just can't see what the fuss is > > about myself. people who know me and my tastes expect me to like them, cos > > they know i'm sucker for a good tune and ash were supposedly the buzzcocks > > of the 90's (snip) > > /////good grief , can i dare to suggest that the slight difference between those acts is that ash are maybe the most desperately appalling act of recent times, against stiff competition it must be said. as much as i dislike them i have to say they're better than ocean colour scene!!! > they are so fucking awful they make the manics look almost bearable. i like the manics. ok they've gone off the boil and they're albums are patchy affairs, but i like the singles. 'a design for life' and 'motorcycle emptiness' are pop classics in my mind. > most embarassing cd ; first utah saints album. i must have had an odd day. isn't that the album that michael stipe really loves? (i bought it too - well the singles were pretty good and that period (92-93) weren't the greatest years ever were they ? been a long time since i played it though. heard one track off the last album which was ok, (it sampled iggy pop) but then i'm a sucker for anything where iggy is involved. > most embarassing lp ; where do i start? how about "strip" by adam ant (i think it was 49p , but i know that's no excuse) > i remember calling adam 'the gary glitter for the under fives', but i won't have a word said against him now. cos at least he was a genuine pop star and boy, wouldn't it be niceto see a few of those again instead of what boy george has labelled 'the revenge of the stage school brats'. i'm glad we're just talking about albums though, and not singles or i wouldn't know where to start (i might even have to admit that i possess - somewhere - the gloriously naff 'GTO' by sinitta which went something like "i've got a big red gto, everywhere i go my gto must go"!!!) ok, i'll let myself out... keith 41 but still, ahem, a handsome devil... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 16:25:18 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Band Potential In a message dated 23/02/02 00:39:38 GMT Standard Time, johnroberts_stats@yahoo.com writes: > We've had discussions on > here b4 about what are Wire's best pop songs but does > anyone think that with the right marketing and > promotion they really could have been Top 40? ///// all it'd take is one ad man and one ad and i think it still could. but would that be a good thing , eh? p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 16:30:48 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: magazine In a message dated 22/02/02 11:48:02 GMT Standard Time, hspencer@oup.co.uk writes: > I bought the `best of' after the recent talk about magazine on list. I > am underwhelmed - on this form I definitely prefer Foxx era Ultravox. ////i'm surprised at that howard , i thought most people here would really liked that. the "hits" lp isn't the whole story but it ain't a bad selection. to me there's a depth to howie that foxx and his new romantic pals don't really approach. you can pick up the box set for very little but not sure that's the answer.....p ps which cd did you buy, wasn't "scree" was it? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:30:00 -0500 From: "Lisa Beatrice Kolman" Subject: [idealcopy] Band Potential Hello all, I don't know about Wire material eer making Top 40, but I can easily see (hear) AMBITIOUS as a car ad. (Are you hot, are you hot, are you hot, I feel Ambitious) Absolutely. Lisa/Philadelphia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 00:43:32 +0000 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: O'Rourke Robert wrote in reply... >mainly his crass comments on Chicago in general....his >above-it-all-attitude...I really hate the >oh-gotta-move-to-L.A.-or-NYC-attitude......Chicago is a great place with a >lot to offer musically and otherwise... aaaaaaahhhhhhhh...ok, couldn't possibly comment on that score...!!!! ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 01:16:06 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: O'Rourke > Robert wrote in reply... > >mainly his crass comments on Chicago in general....his > >above-it-all-attitude...I really hate the > >oh-gotta-move-to-L.A.-or-NYC-attitude......Chicago is a great place with a > >lot to offer musically and otherwise... > > aaaaaaahhhhhhhh...ok, couldn't possibly comment on that score...!!!! > > ian.s.j. > and they were a bloody good group as well!!! keith (it's ok i'm going to bed now...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 01:15:52 +0000 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] a magpie caught stealing... Andrew Walkingshaw wrote : >Seriously: I seem to have cultivated a very magpie, cut-and-paste >taste in music... Given Wire's tendency for assembling ideas >from all over the place, I was wondering how common this kind of attitude >was on the list. it's a personal judgement, obviously, but... well yeah, my tastes are pretty varied, it's a good way to be i suppose, it confuses people about 'where your head's at'... or maybe it's just that i simply cannot listen to the same kind of thing for more than an hour or two. ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:54:15 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Band Potential In a message dated 2/25/02 7:46:44 PM, lisa@lisabugg.com writes: > >I don't know about Wire material eer making Top 40, but I can easily see >(hear) AMBITIOUS as a car ad. (Are you hot, are you hot, are you hot, >I >feel Ambitious) absolutely! and kidney bingos for the organ bank commercials! wait, are there organ bank commercials? - -paul (i dropped advertising after 1 week and went into fine arts...a lot of good that did me) c.d. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #59 ******************************