From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V5 #335 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Wednesday, December 12 2001 Volume 05 : Number 335 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: his point [lladyyasmina@netscape.net (snarkifru)] Re: his point [fru_manchu@hotmail.com (wild Bill)] Dave Matheson's FIRST solo gig! [anna@smag.org (Anna)] Re: his point [mrsfillyjonk@hotmail.com (Richard Butterworth)] Re: his point [sugarfly26@aol.com (SugarFly26)] Re: his point [sugarfly26@aol.com (SugarFly26)] Re: his point [sugarfly26@aol.com (SugarFly26)] Re: his point [sugarfly26@aol.com (SugarFly26)] Message from the Supers! [anna@smag.org (Anna)] Re: Rather disturbing ["Angela Anuszewski" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 11 Dec 2001 10:56:47 -0800 From: lladyyasmina@netscape.net (snarkifru) Subject: Re: his point actually, the way it was explained to me is that our form of government is best defined as a "Democratic Republic" The people choose the representatives, and the representatives then define or develop policy and act [theoretically] on behalf of the interests of the people. i mean, if we _were_ a true democracy, would we be worrying about pregnant chads? (of course, the concept of a pregnant chad is always something worth worrying about, *grin*) SnarkiFru wondering just how thin we can make this hair ps: PHIL!!! you sonova$#^*^*!!! How the Hell Are Ya?!? pss: is anyone else having extreme difficulty in emailing to ammf@fruvous.com ? or is it just me??? aj@locicero.org (A.J. LoCicero) wrote in message > > Bill, you are splitting hairs. It is perfectly correct to call the US > a democracy. > > From Merriam-Webster: > > 1 a : government by the people; especially : rule of the > majority b : a government in which the supreme power is > vested in the people and exercised by them directly or > indirectly through a system of representation usually > involving periodically held free elections > > B describes the U.S. government, so your point is totally irrelevant. > Sorry. :) ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 2001 13:04:39 -0800 From: fru_manchu@hotmail.com (wild Bill) Subject: Re: his point AJ says: > Bill, you are splitting hairs. It is perfectly correct to call the US > a democracy. Yes, I am splitting hairs, but when you actually look at the hairs, they're about a mile wide. I completely disagree with you about the correctness of calling that US a democracy. > From Merriam-Webster: > > 1 a : government by the people; especially : rule of the > majority 1. it is obvious that Gore had the majority vote - so this definition does not apply. > b : a government in which the supreme power is > vested in the people and exercised by them directly or > indirectly through a system of representation usually > involving periodically held free elections 2. this definition would only apply if the people chosen to represent the people (in electing the president) were bound to represent the people's wishes. which obviously they are not, since the majority of the people voted for Gore but Bush was "elected". Not only that, but in the past, the electoral college has voted for people that weren't even on the ballot. More recent mandates by the states has forced electoral college representitives to actually vote how the populace of that state has voted, but since not all of them (to my knowledge) make this happen, you cannot consider this definition valid either. > B describes the U.S. government, so your point is totally irrelevant. > Sorry. :) No, the relevance of my point it still there. The US is not a democracy. Perhaps you'd like to find some other defintion that might put you a little closer. > > > > I have a clue for you, most of the arab world looks to the US as the > > great Satan. Why, because they hate our hypocrisy and our devotion to > > the almighty dollar. Something, that being a libertarian you should > > be able to understand. They hate us because we pretend to promote > > democracy (our hypocrisy) but instead fund evil military rulers (like > > Saddam Hussein), fanatics in Afghanistan, corrupt regimes in Saudi > > Arabia, etc, and of course, being less than equitable in the > > Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Oh yes, and they hate our freedoms. > > They hate us for all kinds of reasons. Some of them reasonable and > some of them totally irrational. A lot of them hate us because it is > fashionable. No matter what we do to our foreign policy, some people > in the world are going to hate us. Yes we should look for ways to be > better world citizens, which will hopefully reduce that number, but > some (like Bin Laden) will always hate us unless we were to change in > ways that I would object to and which frankly are never going to > happen. Because of this fact, we need to be able to defend ourselves. > People can hate us all that they want, but when they start trying to > kill us en mass, we have to say to hell with their interests and look > out for OURS. Hmmm.. and where in my rant did I state that we should do away with our military and not protect our interests or our citizens? What I am suggesting is that we take some time to reflect on the idiotic policies of our government and perhaps right some of the wrongs we are committing so that we can have the "moral" standing that so many people ignorantly believe we do. Of course, there will be people out there that are going to hate us because allow men to have short beards. There are going to people out there that hate us for the fact that we drive on the right and not the left. But these things do not and have not created the level or widespread hatred that our foreign policy has and does. The long and the short is that we've been spending a lot of time looking out for the "OURS" in our best interest using very narrow focus. What's best for us, right now. What's best for the oil companies. What's best for the economy. What's best for the big agro-business machine etc etc. And perhaps not enough time looking out for what is best in the wide focus.. like stopping global warming so that florida and delaware aren't wiped off the map. Stopping the proliferation nuclear and biological weapons, etc etc. But if we don't start changing things .. protecting ourselves from the Bin Ladin today will be nothing compared to trying to protect ourselves from the legion of Bin Ladins that will follow. > > Lets not forget our support of a military dictator in Pakistan, > > something we should be proud of too. > > Let's put that in perspective though. General Musharaf is hardly the > worst of dictators. From what I understand he is relatively moderate. > Pakistan is not a paragon of freedom, but neither is it Iraq. FWIW, > the Musharaf regime is publicly committed to returning the government > to civilian rule, and has a timetable for doing so. Given that, it is > reasonable to support them at least as long as they stick to their > plans. Ah, so we now have "good" and "bad" dictators? Pakistan had a legitimately elected government before this not-so-bad dictator overthrew it. Funny way to show our support for freedom, which is to support someone who obviously didn't think representation by the people was the way to go. But I suppose you'd be prefectly fine with Europe giving a thumbs up if the military here happened to overthrow the government .. as long as the military gave a time table to allow representive rule to come back and as long as it wasn't too oppressive. "wild" Bill > A.J. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 2001 14:40:37 -0800 From: anna@smag.org (Anna) Subject: Dave Matheson's FIRST solo gig! Well, I'm sure it's not his first gig *ever* ... but it will be his first since his fantastic solo CD was released earlier this year. For this special show, Dave's even put together a backing band and written a bunch of new songs. He'll be backed by Maury LaFoy (The Supers, Starling) on bass, Mark Mariash (Sarah Slean, Kurt Swinghammer) on drums, and Dave Woodhead on guitar. Lee Whalen who contributed on Dave's CD will be a special guest, and Kyp Harness will be opening. The show is at C'est What? in Toronto on December 14th. The concert is going to be fabulous, so everyone within a 6 hour drive should really plan on coming! And don't say you've never done *that* before ;) New Dave songs! You know you want to hear 'em. Dave will also be a special guest at The Supers' Holiday Party on December 19th at the Rivoli in Toronto. Other great guests include Mia Sheard, Kurt Swinghammer, and Ali Eisner. If you can't make it to either of these shows, but just happen to be free this Thursday, The Supers are having their 'Mystery on Pop Mountain' CD preview party at C'est What? and that should be lots of fun as well. Whew. That was a lot to say. If you live anywhere near Toronto, you should really try to make it out to these shows! If you need more info, check out: http://www.davidmatheson.ca http://www.thesupers.com or email: lisa@davidmatheson.ca Hope to see a bunch of you there :) - -anna- ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 2001 14:42:50 -0800 From: mrsfillyjonk@hotmail.com (Richard Butterworth) Subject: Re: his point "A.J. LoCicero" wrote in message news:<3C163794.AC593C45@locicero.org>... > Where this discussion breaks down is that Richard seems to > suggest that this deplorable state of affairs in some way justifies or at least > explains Sept. 11th. No. I have in no way EVER tried to justify 11th September and I apologise to anyone who thinks that I did. Explain yes. Justify never. Richard ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2001 00:21:08 GMT From: sugarfly26@aol.com (SugarFly26) Subject: Re: his point AJ said: < Because of this fact, we need to be able to defend ourselves. People can hate us all that they want, but when they start trying to kill us en mass, we have to say to hell with their interests and look out for OURS.>> Sorry to post something shorter than what I'm quoting, but Yes. Very well said, AJ. Ln ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2001 00:21:34 GMT From: sugarfly26@aol.com (SugarFly26) Subject: Re: his point Richard (?) said: <> Awwww, look, he just said bad words and disregarded someone he doesn't even know because of a different opinion, how cute.. Ln ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2001 00:22:02 GMT From: sugarfly26@aol.com (SugarFly26) Subject: Re: his point AJ said: <> So if it happens here too, what's the problem? (Kidding, kidding..) Ln ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2001 00:23:15 GMT From: sugarfly26@aol.com (SugarFly26) Subject: Re: his point AJ said: <> Yeah. The only thing I'm saying is that it's rather difficult to convince someone/people that something won't work if they know for a fact it has before. That is to say, it's harder for an American to grasp that a Ghanian Revolution wouldn't work, because an American Revolution did. It shouldn't be harder to grasp, because of so many variables, but it seems to be. If that makes sense. The whole, "Um, that idea can't be impossible because we did it." mentality. Ln ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 2001 17:32:20 -0800 From: anna@smag.org (Anna) Subject: Message from the Supers! Hello Fruvous fans! Happy December and all the great things that go with it! We, the Supers, hope you are feeling well. We, the Supers, would also like to invite you to three (3!) events this month. First of all, please come down to C'est What this Thursday. Dec.13th at 9pm. The Supers will be playing acoustically and previewing material from thier upcoming CD "Mystery on Pop Mountain". Tim Bovaconti is now home from his travels with Ron Sexsmith and will be providing pedal steel accompaniment to the acoustic guitar and double bass of Graham and Maury. It will be a great night and a six song preview CD will be available. Tunesmith and Word Wizard, Blair Packham will be starting the night. Secondly, the 2nd Annual Supers Holiday Mixer is Wednesday, Dec.19th at the Rivoli. Special guests: Dave Matheson, Ali Eisner, Mia Sheard, and Kurt Swinghammer will be performing with The Supers throughout the night. Please bring non perishable food items for the Toronto Food Bank. It's a Wednesday, so things will get going earlier than usual. 9pm start. Lastly and Thirdly, the Supers will be at Petit Campus in Montrial. Saturday, Dec. 22nd. Please fly, drive, train there to dance and eat better bagels and late night beer. Locals faves Ocean Hope will be kicking the night off. Venez! Thank you for listening, thanks for supporting The Supers and gracias for not sending this email back angrily. And so we say: Merry Christmas, Feliz Navidad, Happy Hannukah, Joyeux Noel, Qwanza and try your best to stay away from crack cocaine and all other bad bits of life. Maury / The Supers For more information check out ALL upcoming Supers' shows at: http://www.thesupers.com/feel.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 02:05:52 GMT From: "Angela Anuszewski" Subject: Re: Rather disturbing I was looking for Weird Al's version of Green Eggs and Ham (parody of Numb by U2) and found the Fruvous version listed as him. Sad, huh? ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V5 #335 ********************************************