From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V5 #138 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Wednesday, May 16 2001 Volume 05 : Number 138 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: MapleMusic Just Like the Rest! [Katherine Maheux ] Re: MapleMusic Just Like the Rest! ["Kate Leahy" ] Letter #2 ["Wallis" ] Re: MapleMusic Just Like the Rest! [Chad Maloney ] [Fwd: LIVE on NBC- mike errico] [LladyYasmina@netscape.net (ama)] Re: Letter #2 [mike96@bluecrow.com (Mike Yoshioka)] Re: Letter #2 ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: LIVE on NBC- mike errico] ["John Ryan" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 04:55:43 GMT From: Katherine Maheux Subject: Re: MapleMusic Just Like the Rest! Josh Drury wrote: > > Seems a bit of an overreaction to me. The website, etc. clearly said only > the first 100 copies would be autographed, and nowhere did they say they > hadn't yet sold 100 copies. A hundred isn't a lot, and I don't think it was > implied that ordering early was any guarantee you'd get an autographed copy. > You still got a copy of the CD you ordered, at the price you ordered it, and > in near-record time. Sounds like the servive was just fine, and I don't > think your interpretation of a fairly explicit offer justifies calling their > practices unethical. There are doubtless far worse offenders in the > business community who would be more worthy targets of this type of > protest. Right on, Josh (why is it I always seem to write "me too" posts only in response to Josh's?). Michelle, I really think you were overreacting. MM.com doesn't get updated *that* frequently to begin with. Plus, the fact that C was in the top ten best-selling albums list every week up until now should have been a clue as to how fast Dave's records would be selling. Also, you only attended one Radio Monday, so I could very well accuse *you* of hypocrisy, couldn't I? ;) You weren't even there for Dave's! The fact is that Maple Music has been nothing but stellar for us Fr|heads... writing two different blurbs about the Convention (neither of which were solicited and both of which were excellent), and generously donating the $100 gift certificate for the Fr|con raffle. And that's not to mention the fact that a Maple Music agent actually paid to get into Fr|con instead of using their Press Pass, so technically the community as a whole owes Maple Music twenty dollars ;) I've spoken with Jennifer on a few occasions, and not only is she a very nice person (who remembered me a month after Fr|con!), but she also has nothing to do with the Maple Music website, so taking this out on her is completely nonsensical. I'll stop ranting now. Kath - -- "Stop it or I'll go tell Jian you think he has a goldfish brain!" - Fiona ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:05:15 +0200 From: "Kate Leahy" Subject: Re: MapleMusic Just Like the Rest! Honestly, it's really only unethical if you read too much into it. The e-mail says very clearly that only the first 100 CDs will arrive autographed. Anyone reading such an e-mailer on Thursday (knowing well that the CD was "released" on Monday) would likely consider themselves out of the running for an autographed copy. I know *I* would. I think it's perfectly acceptable for MM.com to continue to circulate such information. I mean, it would have been nice if they had gone to the trouble to indicate that there weren't any autographed copies left, but my guess is that the e-mailer was automatic and they honestly didn't expect to have sold as many as they had at that point. I think it's probably very valuable to the site and to Dave-O that MM.com customers know that he was willing to go an extra step toward making his fans happy :). - -- Kate ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 09:31:44 -0400 From: "Wallis" Subject: Letter #2 Kath wrote: > Also, you only attended one Radio Monday, so I could very well accuse > *you* of hypocrisy, couldn't I? ;) You weren't even there for Dave's! I have to correct you here, at the point that I had written the letter (May 3rd) I had attended three out of five. Just because I didn't sit with you doesn't mean I wasn't there. It may have excaped your attention, but there is a front room that overlooks the street. Normally when I go downtown I have to meet with people about various things I have on the go. It is much more conducive (and much less rude to the artists) to sit in the room that faces College Street, to have these discussions. Much to my disappointment, I was not there for Dave's because I had this evil root canal that has continued to go wrong since April 26th! I have not been out of the house since, as I am not allowed to drive on pin killers :-( Hopefully they will finish fixing it next week. Hey maybe that's why I have such a bad attitude at the moment! > The fact is that Maple Music has been nothing but stellar for us > Fr|heads... writing two different blurbs about the Convention (neither > of which were solicited and both of which were excellent), and > generously donating the $100 gift certificate for the Fr|con raffle. I will not contest that. See my second letter to Jennifer below. > that's not to mention the fact that a Maple Music agent actually paid to > get into Fr|con instead of using their Press Pass, so technically the > community as a whole owes Maple Music twenty dollars ;) I think they have made their $20 and then some from us as a community. How many "c" cd's plus a minimum of 250 Dave Matheson not to mention others. I am not saying that to be evil, but I think the $20 is neither here nor there really, and I am sure he/she had $20 out of the MM expense account. I do not begrudge/dislike Maple Music, or what they do. Infact I sing their graces (yes I guess I am a hypocrit then). My point is, they need to be better with their communication. > I've spoken with Jennifer on a few occasions... but she also has > nothing to do with the Maple Music website, so taking this out on her is > completely nonsensical. Jennifer replied to my original e-mail which was sent to the general e-mail box. My guess is that she works in the marketing/promotions department, but that is just a guess. I sent my second letter to her because she responded to the first. I am not "taking it out on her". > I'll stop ranting now. Keep ranting Kath...I love it when you rant! Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing :-) And Kate L. said: >I think it's perfectly acceptable for MM.com to continue to circulate such >information. I mean, it would have been nice if they had gone to the >trouble to indicate that there weren't any autographed copies left, but my >guess is that the e-mailer was automatic and they honestly didn't expect to >have sold as many as they had at that point. Hey maybe they layout their newsletter more than 4 days in advance and really didn't have time to change it (pretty flash e-newsletter it is too) but I somehow doubt that, just like maybe they only update their web page once a week. If that's the case then maybe I shouldn't be so critical with my opinions. However, they did manage to find someone to remove the information almost immediately after I pointed it out to them. Anyway, for those of you that are still reading, here is the second letter. I sent it yesterday. Please note that I made a mistake in this letter saying that they sent out their e-newsletter on Wednesday, it was actually sent out on Thursday. Keep in mind all the CD's were gone by Monday afternoon. Dear Jennifer, Thank you for your reply to my e-mail however I am afraid you missed my point entirely. I am not in the least bit disappointed with the CD's I received. In fact, I am thrilled with them and can not wait to hear the songs live. I was impressed by how promptly and safely they arrived, even by "regular" mail. It is also great to know that I can 'buy Canadian' in Canada with Canadian money with low service and shipping charges. I am also thrilled with the fact that David Matheson is one of Maple Music's top selling artists this week. He rightfully deserves his place in the roster! I also loudly applaud the work that Maple Music does for Canadian artists, in particular promoting artists and events that normally receive little or no promotion, both through your web site and through your recent Radio Monday series. The point of my previous e-mail was that of ethics, honesty in communicating with your current and potential customers. I thank you for your honesty, and for spelling out that no-one got pushed up the list of 100, no matter what their reason was, and for clarifying that orders were filled in the order that they were received. I would only expect it to be that way, and applaud you for sticking to your guns. In my e-mail I did not intend to imply that I should be pushed up the list, or for you to provide me with an autographed copy, which I obviously did not order in time, as it seems they were all gone by Monday afternoon. Luckily, I live in Toronto, and should I chose to muster up the courage to ask Mr Matheson to autograph my copies at a future performance, I shall. Further in that respect, if he should chooses not to autograph the two copies that I have, I would think no less of him as an artist or an individual. The number of autographed copies of the CD he wishes to have in circulation is ultimately his choice as an artist. I, and many others have heard about Maple Music through other sources on the internet that do a great job in promoting your services (newsgroups, e-newsletters, web pages of various Canadian artists).However, you should know by now, that the majority of Maple Music customers are very internet savvy. The internet is a live, interactive form of communication. If a company chooses to use the internet as a means of communication and a way of doing business, then it is that company's responsibility to communicate the current available information TRUTHFULLY to it's potential customers. This is even more vitally important, when 100% of your business relies on the information you communicate via the internet. It would be forgivable, if your web page was only updated every three days (which I doubt) that the information listed on that web page may be three days out of date. But, to blatantly mislead newsletters subscribers to believe that they could still have one of the 100 autographed copies, three days after they were no longer available, is a definite insult to the intelligence of the audience you are dealing with. News travels fast on the internet, it can reach millions within hours. I am merely stating that a company using this form of communication should be much more careful in the message that it communicates to customers in order to maintain its reputation in the minds of consumers. You may or may not remember K-tel, the company that flogged millions of records on television (our previously, most up-to-the-minute method of mass communication)? If K-Tel or anyone else using that medium, offered consumers something for free you bet your bottom dollar that if they didn't provide it, yet continued to advertise it, that the evil people at advertising standards would be down their throats in hours to tell them there were falsely advertising to increase profits. How is your sending out your newsletter on Wednesday, telling people that they could receive an autographed copy any different than the above example? Will I shop with MapleMusic again? This was my first purchase and it may well be my last. I am a strong supporter of the independent music scene. If Maple Music is my only choice to support an artist that I want to, then I may. However, from this point on I think I will go back to buying direct from the artist at shows or have friends purchase for me at shows I am unable to attend. Please note that the opinions I have expressed in this e-mail are solely my own and do not reflect the opinions of any artists, internet communities, organization or individuals. I am merely one tiny individual voice in a chorus of millions, exercising my right to speak-up. I sincerely hope that Maple Music will be more careful in the future, in the way it communicates information to those who appreciate the work that you do and service you provide to both consumers and the artists themselves. Ethics are important, even in the world of sales, marketing and commercialism. Sincerely, Michelle Wallis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 10:33:11 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: MapleMusic Just Like the Rest! Wallis wrote: > I am happy with my CD's and all the rest. What I am not happy with is the > e-mail newletter that I received in my e-mail box 3 days after there were no > autographed cd's to be had! I know this because I ordered mine on Monday. I > received them on Thursday. Only moments after receiving them, on Thursday > (2:44pm to be precise) I received Maple Music's newsletter in my e-mail box, > three days after they were all gone What do you expect? Them to write the newsletter in the 10 minutes before they send it out? - Chad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:40:04 -0400 From: LladyYasmina@netscape.net (ama) Subject: [Fwd: LIVE on NBC- mike errico] since i receive the digest, don't know if folks actually got this or not... Mike Errico opened for Fruvous in Baltimore last summer, and it was AMAZING! He's AMAZING! and he's gonna be on TV i need to dig up a new tape. angie btw: working on an indepth review of David Matheson (self-titled), will post shortly :) - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: LIVE on NBC- mike errico Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 09:30:37 -0400 From: mike errico To: (Recipient list suppressed) Join co-anchors Jane Hansen, Maurice DuBois and about 2 million viewers for coffee talk/network television debut of mike errico. "Today in New York" on NBC Wednesday, May 16 I'll be playing "Springtime" and "You Shook Me All Night Long", w/blake morgan on guitar - first song at 5:45am approx., second song 6:45am approx. this may be the moment to learn how to program the VCR. It was going to be on friday, but we were bumped to wednesday by ricky martin. other news, downloads, Tallboy, etc. available at www.errico.com here we go, m - -- Death is but a doorway, time is but a window, I'll be back. - --Vigo the Carpathian "Ghostbusters II" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 19:23:31 GMT From: mike96@bluecrow.com (Mike Yoshioka) Subject: Re: Letter #2 On Tue, 15 May 2001 09:31:44 -0400, "Wallis" wrote: Hiya Michelle. Nice to see you're alive and kicking , heh. I hope you finally got rid of that flu :) I can understand you being perturbed that Maple Music would continue to state that the first 100 copies would be autographed. However, they didn't do anything unethical (in my opinion). They didn't state that all the cd's would be autographed. They didn't state "Call now, the next 100 cd's will be autographed!!!" They said that the FIRST 100 cd's would be. > If K-Tel or anyone else using that medium, offered >consumers something for free you bet your bottom dollar that if they >didn't provide it, yet continued to advertise it, that the evil people at >advertising standards would be down their throats in hours to tell them >there were falsely advertising to increase profits. How is your sending >out your newsletter on Wednesday, telling people that they could >receive an autographed copy any different than the above example? Uhm, there's a big difference in the example above. Again, they didn't say that all the copies were going to have a free autograph. They did provide exactly what they offered. It's not like they changed what they were offering. Sure, it would have been nice if they had changed the wording to be something more along the lines of "David Matheson graciously autographed the first 100 cd's. All of which were sold in the first day...." Or something like that. That way they could still show the extra effort that Dave put in, and that they had a great offer. But, that said, the above is just a "would have been nice" , not a "that's the only ethical thing they could do". They never guaranteed anyone getting an autographed CD. Hell, someone could have ordered 1 minute after the store opened and ordered 100 CD's and got all of them. Does that mean that they should instantly mass-advertise that it's no longer available? It would be nice if they would, or could, but, it doesn't mean it's unethical to still have it advertised. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 21:40:41 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: Letter #2 Wallis wrote: > > Kath wrote: > > that's not to mention the fact that a Maple Music agent actually paid to > > get into Fr|con instead of using their Press Pass, so technically the > > community as a whole owes Maple Music twenty dollars ;) > > I think they have made their $20 and then some from us as a community. How > many "c" cd's plus a minimum of 250 Dave Matheson not to mention others. I > am not saying that to be evil, but I think the $20 is neither here nor there > really, and I am sure he/she had $20 out of the MM expense account. Michelle, You see the little winky-smiley face after Kath's sentence? That means that you didn't need to write the reply you wrote. :) > I do not > begrudge/dislike Maple Music, or what they do. Infact I sing their graces > (yes I guess I am a hypocrit then). My point is, they need to be better with > their communication. I agree with Mike Y. on this. It would be nice, but I don't think you can indict them for it. > Hey maybe they layout their newsletter more than 4 days in advance and > really didn't have time to change it (pretty flash e-newsletter it is too) > but I somehow doubt that, just like maybe they only update their web page > once a week. If that's the case then maybe I shouldn't be so critical with > my opinions. Change your "maybes" to "probablies" and you have just made my point for me. Thanks. Why in the heck would you think that they update frequently or that they prepare a "flashy" newsletter at the last minute? Logic dictates just the opposite. > However, they did manage to find someone to remove the > information almost immediately after I pointed it out to them. Sure, because you bitched. That is what I call a responsive and responsible business. Sorry, but I have to agree with those who feel that you are over-reacting. A.J. - -- Maria: Watch out! Me: (With a smile, having done this before) For Cars? Maria: No Me: No? Maria (big smile) Trucks! Watch out Trucks! Email:aj@locicero.org ICQ: 13117113 AIM: locicero For some of the best Long Distance and Calling Card rates around visit http://www.ld.net/?sensible. Cheap rates and *I* get a commission! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 19:45:22 -0400 From: "John Ryan" Subject: Re: LIVE on NBC- mike errico] I saw Mike do a solo show at the Cutting Room in NYC. He was simply great. I'll have to set my VCR. "ama" wrote in message news:79072D78.634F9602.2A57FB10@netscape.net... > since i receive the digest, don't know if folks actually got this or not... Mike Errico opened for Fruvous in Baltimore last summer, and it was AMAZING! He's AMAZING! and he's gonna be on TV > > i need to dig up a new tape. > > angie > > btw: working on an indepth review of David Matheson (self-titled), will post shortly :) > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: LIVE on NBC- mike errico > Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 09:30:37 -0400 > From: mike errico > To: (Recipient list suppressed) > > > Join co-anchors Jane Hansen, Maurice DuBois and about 2 million viewers > for coffee talk/network television debut of mike errico. > > "Today in New York" on NBC > Wednesday, May 16 > > I'll be playing "Springtime" and "You Shook Me All Night Long", w/blake > morgan on guitar - > first song at 5:45am approx., second song 6:45am approx. > this may be the moment to learn how to program the VCR. > > It was going to be on friday, but we were bumped to wednesday by ricky martin. > > other news, downloads, Tallboy, etc. available at > www.errico.com > > here we go, > m > > -- > Death is but a doorway, time is but a window, I'll be back. > > --Vigo the Carpathian > "Ghostbusters II" ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V5 #138 ********************************************