From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V5 #57 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Wednesday, February 21 2001 Volume 05 : Number 057 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: OT: Jian's rant [dgodwin1@aol.com (DGodwin1)] Re: Not a real review! :p [Marie-Claude ] Re: last night's concert [Marie-Claude ] Re: last night's concert [Katherine Maheux ] Re: Not a real review! :p [Marie-Claude ] Re: OT: Jian's rant [navratil@dslnorthwest.net (Joe Navratil)] Re: OT: Jian's rant ["Kate Leahy" ] Re: Jian's rant ["Kate Leahy" ] Re: last night's concert [Paul Baker ] Re: last night's concert [bbwminors@aol.com (BBWMinors)] Re: last night's concert [bbwminors@aol.com (BBWMinors)] Re: last night's concert [Paul Baker ] Re: Jian's rant [Chad Maloney ] Re: OT: Jian's rant [Josh Drury ] Re: last night's concert [mike96@bluecrow.com (Mike Yoshioka)] Re: Pathetic . . . [Dead@thwip.polyamory.org, from@thwip.polyamory.org, t] Re: OT: Jian's rant [Melanie ] Re: Jian's rant [Melanie ] Re: new [presam0@wfu.NOSPAM.edu (Adam 'Plastic Cup' Prestin)] Review/Opinion/Pix: 02.17.01 [gingee@fruhead.com] The Con, the Show and Jian's talk ["Jill Ellis" ] Re: Jian's rant [Todd Evans ] Opera House Setlist Addition [Dead@thwip.polyamory.org, from@thwip.polyam] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Feb 2001 05:54:13 GMT From: dgodwin1@aol.com (DGodwin1) Subject: Re: OT: Jian's rant Joe: If this law has nothing to do with me, why the hell did they name it after me??? Dan >I hereby officially nominate "Gulf War Song" for coverage under >Godwin's Law[1] on ammf. > > -Joe > >[1] No, Godwin's Law doesn't have anything to do with Dan. Sorry. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 05:51:23 GMT From: Marie-Claude Subject: Re: Not a real review! :p Marie-Claude wrote: > The Opera House has amazing lighting. Those crowd lights make me feel like I > was at a AC/DC concert. :) I forgot to say... (and this is very dear to me) AC/DC-sicle. - -- Marie-Claude Danis http://verticalcrawl.com "Nothing like getting you ass kicked to... make your ass hurt." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 05:30:59 GMT From: Marie-Claude Subject: Re: last night's concert Mike Yoshioka wrote: > On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:21:43 GMT, "A.J. LoCicero" > wrote: > > Sorry everyone, but I checked the tape, and he said "Hello name here>" The magical part of that is that whoever listens to it, > hears their own name. > > And it looks like he's pointing at everyone. > > Oh, and his eyes follow you wherever you are in the room. It's just > creepy. And if you shift slightly to one side, he morphs into a hologram of Jesus. - -- Marie-Claude Danis http://verticalcrawl.com "Nothing like getting you ass kicked to... make your ass hurt." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 06:05:11 GMT From: Katherine Maheux Subject: Re: last night's concert BBWMinors wrote: > Here's my question ... is this Aaron the same Aaron as Aaron Birenbaum? If so, > he's a kid and his uncle, as everyone who read his brief missives (oxymoron) > knows, is Mike Ford. So if it WERE the same Aaron (though with a new e-mail > address), then maybe Uncle Mike really was saying howdy nephew. Sorry, but in my book, being Mike Ford's nephew is really no excuse for bad nettiquette, for just plain being rude, for boasting about unimpressive things just for the sake of boasting, or for expecting to be treated above everybody else. Mike *did* yell "Hello Aaron", but I'll tell you one thing: I'm about 90% sure he meant Aaron, the guy who was sitting in the balcony doing lighting, especially considering the next line had to do with Cal. Sorry, kid. Kath BobSnidersicle - -- One day, the world stood still And we all sang one song Words came without any thought And we all sang so strongly The shy, they shouted too The deaf, all the chords they knew And the blind, they led me through The day the world stood still, The day we all stood still. -- Andy Stochansky ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 05:41:51 GMT From: Marie-Claude Subject: Re: Not a real review! :p Jordan McClure wrote: > The audience was totally amazing - well beyond what I saw at the other > Fricon shows I was at for Frucon 2. From the opening roar of applause > to the spontaneous round of "Happy Birthday" for Dave to the Pisco > fish, it was just amazing to see a crowd that in to the show. It > seemed that every Fruhead on the continent who could come was there > and it showed - plus the guys were having a lot of fun. Far be it for > me to say the band should only play 2 shows a year, but if it produces > show like that one, I dunno. The Opera House has amazing lighting. Those crowd lights make me feel like I was at a AC/DC concert. :) > Michigan Militia > Jockey Full of Bourbon How happy was I about THAT one! > Horseshoes > Fly I thought, sure, you know, cram three of my five Pee Songs in the first half-hour. Why not. Get it over with :) - -- Marie-Claude Danis http://verticalcrawl.com "Less sass, more technique." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:38:51 -0000 From: navratil@dslnorthwest.net (Joe Navratil) Subject: Re: OT: Jian's rant On 21 Feb 2001 05:54:13 GMT, DGodwin1 wrote: > >If this law has nothing to do with me, why the hell did they name it after >me??? > Prescience, obviously. "Any time that Dan guy talks, we'll know the debate is well and truly over." ;-) (Actually, it was apparently named after a Mike Godwin who is currently busy doing stuff with the EFF. This despite the fact that he wasn't the one who first pointed it out. Hmm.) -Joe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:23:37 +0100 From: "Kate Leahy" Subject: Re: OT: Jian's rant Jian is of Iranian heritage and while that might influence his thoughts, he has opinions about everything and has no problem expressing any one of them :). - --Kate ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:22:49 +0100 From: "Kate Leahy" Subject: Re: Jian's rant > My point is that the Iraqi people do NOT want us to "help" them. (If > you can call dropping bombs on them helping.) Of course they fear for > their children's lives, but they do not seem to believe that they have > anything to fear from Saddam. Right or wrong, that is what they choose > to believe. I mean, I can't speak for them, but I'm pretty sure that > they don't think very highly of our bombings. The Iraqi people are being kept purposely powerless. There's really not a whole lot they *can* do to resist their government seeing as how it has cut off all outside information sources. The lack of information combined with crappy U.S. policy maneuvers leads to a sticky situation in which desperate people are blaming the United States for all of their hardships and not the real source. At this point, Hussein is their only conceivable lifeline whether he's legitimate or not (and he's not). "They don't think highly of our bombings" is an understatement. - --Kate ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:39:24 -0500 From: Paul Baker Subject: Re: last night's concert Hi Mike-- I'm wondering if you have a video tape of the Frucon show? Would you be willing to make me a copy since our last deal went a little sour? I still haven't received everything we agreed on as far as trading, and 1 show you made for me is of such poor quality (static and skipping) that I can't even listen to it... I was thinking that if you have either the video or a CD copy that I would accept that as being even? Let me know-- Paul B Mike Yoshioka wrote: > On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:21:43 GMT, "A.J. LoCicero" > wrote: > > Sorry everyone, but I checked the tape, and he said "Hello name here>" The magical part of that is that whoever listens to it, > hears their own name. > > And it looks like he's pointing at everyone. > > Oh, and his eyes follow you wherever you are in the room. It's just > creepy. > > Mike ------------------------------ Date: 21 Feb 2001 14:23:40 GMT From: bbwminors@aol.com (BBWMinors) Subject: Re: last night's concert OK, maybe upon second reading this e-mail is a joke. I've noticed that in recent months on the NG it's kinda hard to tell the difference. Maybe that's why I reverted to lurk mode and why I should go back there immediately and permanently :) :) :) ------------------------------ Date: 21 Feb 2001 14:22:34 GMT From: bbwminors@aol.com (BBWMinors) Subject: Re: last night's concert And I guess that posting this letter on the entire newsgroup instead of sending it directly to the person it's intended for is much more polite than some guy all excited thinking he was greeted in concert and asking if anyone has a tape of that. I will give benefit of the doubt that PBaker THOUGHT he was sending it directly to Mike, right????? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:30:07 -0500 From: Paul Baker Subject: Re: last night's concert I accidentally hit the "reply all" key and forgot to delete the NG address... That message was a private message for Mike since we had a bit of a snag with a trade we had conducted previously. Since I don't like to profit from trading and I sure don't like to get the short end of the stick, I offered Mike an opportunity to "finish" our trade once and for all. This is why I stick to reading NG's only... I've noticed way too much "policing" of messages lately for my tastes. Regards-- Paul B BBWMinors wrote: And I guess that posting this letter on the entire newsgroup instead of sending it directly to the person it's intended for is much more polite than some guy all excited thinking he was greeted in concert and asking if anyone has a tape of that. I will give benefit of the doubt that PBaker THOUGHT he was sending it directly to Mike, right????? > OK, maybe upon second reading this e-mail is a joke. I've noticed that in > recent months on the NG it's kinda hard to tell the difference. Maybe that's > why I reverted to lurk mode and why I should go back there immediately and > permanently :) :) :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:25:27 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: Jian's rant Todd Evans wrote: > Chad wrote: > > He has the stage prescence to > > come off very knowledgeable, but I think he would have a better > > impact on impartial people if he structured his ramblings a bit more. > > I guess he's there to put on a show though first and foremost > > and did that well. > > > I can't say I agree with that statement. I don't remember Jian doing > any muttering or rambling. I disagree. He rambles. He rambles a lot. He pauses and says "Here's my point" in order to get things back in gear once he realizes. He has good ideas and strong beliefs, but I honestly think there are a lot of people that side with Jian because he's Jian and not because he's making a good or clear point. I'm not singling anyone out that is like that. I have seen more Moxy Fruvous shows than I care to admit and I'm also a taper so I have many many of those shows archived and can listen to them whenever I want, losing the spur of the momentness of a Jian-ramble. But I've seen Jian talk for 15 minutes about this or that before songs before. His heart is in the right place, but I've seen him bore the audience immeasurably and THEN play Fly. Back when No No Raja was in the set list, I know people who would go straight to the bathroom and get a drink and talk with people outside as soon as Jian picked up the chair and got the doumbek and 90% of the time they made it back in time to see the whole song. Jian would sit down and talk for 10 minutes. The best Moxy Fruvous show hands down that I've seen in all my time seeing shows contained a 20 minute monologue on the movie Some Kind of Wonderful. I don't think there is a question in anyone's mind whose monologue it was. > I think it is pretty clear that he doesn't > appreciate the dropping of bombs on the middle east. Yes, he expressed > having an issue with the media coverage, but I think it is also pretty > obvious that he has a problem with the US middle east policy. I think > Jian articulated his views on the subject just fine. I think you think it's pretty clear because you agree with him. It's a lot easier to preach to the choir, but where does that get you? I would bet the people who either were unaware of the occurences or were aware but on the fence about, just sorta tuned him off or went and got a drink. Jian has valid viewpoints. He has a strong system of beliefs and doesn't mind discussing them. All that is great. What pisses me off is that there are people who agree whole-heartedly with him because he is Jian, not because they understand. That's wrong. Or maybe I'm just judgemental because in the time he rambled on about it, they could have played Down from Above or Fell in Love. - Chad ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:56:31 -0600 From: Josh Drury Subject: Re: OT: Jian's rant Jordan McClure wrote: > My other comment is on the US's general policy towards Hussein, which > seems to be to just cut off all negotiations and issue sanctions, with > the occasional bombing thrown in. The sanctions lower the standard of > living and the bombings incite a sense of nationalism and unite the > people behind a common enemy, in this case the U.S. I'm not a history > expert, but I believe it was this sort of behavior that made it so > easy for Hitler to unite Germany behind him. Good point there. Certainly Hitler understood the use of scapegoats to unite people behind him, and while he used largely internal minorities -- Jews, communists, etc. for this purpose, the harsh conditions imposed by the victors of WWI in the Treaty of Versailles certainly made Britain, France, and their allies into scapegoats for Germany's problems as well. Many historians have argued that Nazi Germany would likely not have happened if the Treaty of Versailles were more fair to the losing side and particularly Germany. I'm not sure if Hussein would be out of power, or if he would be any less belligerent if there were no sanctions, no-fly zones, bombings, and other conditions, but it would be less easy to unite the citizenry against the U.S. if they were not creating such problems for the Iraqi population. Josh Drury Winnipeg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:07:24 GMT From: mike96@bluecrow.com (Mike Yoshioka) Subject: Re: last night's concert On 21 Feb 2001 14:22:34 GMT, bbwminors@aol.com (BBWMinors) wrote: >And I guess that posting this letter on the entire newsgroup instead of sending >it directly to the person it's intended for is much more polite than some guy >all excited thinking he was greeted in concert and asking if anyone has a tape >of that. > >I will give benefit of the doubt that PBaker THOUGHT he was sending it directly >to Mike, right????? Nah, it was an honest mistake. The original trade did go bad on my part. I still have to restore the original tapes from the masters. Plus, it goes to show that it takes me a long time to get to some of these things. So , yes, I will make copies for anyone* that asks, trades would be welcomed, if not, the whole SASE with blank video thing would be appreciated. But please don't expect it right away. Mike *anyone except for that WildBill guy. :D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:08:29 GMT From: Dead@thwip.polyamory.org, from@thwip.polyamory.org, the@thwip.polyamory.org, Neck@thwip.polyamory.org, Up@Home.com (Tim the DeadHead) Subject: Re: Pathetic . . . OK, Kate - I'm not real good at the newsgroup, but here's the setlist: At 11:00 pm after a terrific group called 'The Supers" (you have got to check these guys out), our beloved lads came on - Michigan Militia Jockey Full of Burbon Tempted Horseshoes Fly MyPoor Generation "Happy Birthday to Dave" (sung by us-all!) Lazy Boy You Will Go To The Moon Pisco Bandito Independence Day Boo Time Video Bargainville BJ Stuck in the 90s Present Tense Tureen Johnny Saucep'n Guine Pig Kids Song I Will Hold On Nuit MBLABOA Get in the Car Psycho Killer Encore: King of Spain Green Eggs & Ham (Mike becomes Tory Cassis 'cause of 'not the Beatles'!) Encore: If Only You Knew Believe in Love (?) Encore: Drinking Song This was a rockin' show & the guys were really having fun. I think most of the audience was. Sorry I didn't get most of the banter & have left out the bits I got. I hope someone else can fill them in. Catch you later. We missed seeing you. Robin (& Tim & Kelsey) Engle On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 21:19:26 +0100, "Kate Leahy" pondered for a while, and then wrote: >That not a one of you has bothered to post even a *setlist* from this >weekend's shows. What do you expect the expatriates to survive on :) ? > >--Kate ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:51:21 -0500 From: Melanie Subject: Re: OT: Jian's rant >> Brassgrl70 02/20/01 11:50PM >>> >>As a newbie I know this may sound silly, but isn't Jian of Middle Eastern ethnic backround? If so, where exactly? Could that have anything to do with his views? Just a random thought. I guess it's probably wrong.<< Jian is of Iranian descent, but mostly I think he's just a peace and justice kind of guy. He's also an advocate for a woman's right to reproductive choice. And he hates Starbucks . . . which has nothing to do with any of this. If you are interested, there are some articles of his that can be found in www.Fruvous.com about Hollywood's prejudiced portrayal of Arabs and the effect on Arab Canadians and Americans. melanie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:41:49 -0500 From: Melanie Subject: Re: Jian's rant >>> Chad Maloney wrote: >>Jian has valid viewpoints. He has a strong system of beliefs and doesn't mind discussing them. All that is great. What pisses me off is that there are people who agree whole-heartedly with him because he is Jian, not because they understand. That's wrong. << Let me give you an opposite of this situation. I find that I disagree with everything that George W. Bush says. He could say that the sky was blue, and I'd look for a flaw in his statement. On the other hand, I tend to listen to what Jian says and, if not agree totally, will accept that there is truth in what he says. Personally, I do like to hear his "rants." He has a perspective as a Canadian and as a person of Iranian heritage that is different from mine, and he has made me consider certain attitudes that I have as an American. For example, I've become very aware of the American media's negative portrayal of Arabs and the effect that it has on Arab Americans and Canadians. Here's my point: when you like/admire someone, you tend to listen to them. peace, melanie ------------------------------ Date: 21 Feb 2001 22:50:11 GMT From: presam0@wfu.NOSPAM.edu (Adam 'Plastic Cup' Prestin) Subject: Re: new kmaheux@home.com (Katherine Maheux) wrote in <3A92A230.96050862@home.com>: >Oh, Aaron, we're so sorry that in the past 48 hours no one has been able >to comply to your request. You were so polite when you asked for it, too >- we practically *owe* you that mp3, don't we? > >Kath Weenie of the week. - -adam ------------------------------ Date: 21 Feb 2001 23:16:50 GMT From: gingee@fruhead.com Subject: Review/Opinion/Pix: 02.17.01 Moxy Fr|vous @ the Opera House, Toronto 2.17.01 How was it? Great!  It was a great Fr|vous show, not unlike the shows at the end of summer, 2000, with a similar (and very long  27 songs) set list of songs we all love with no surprises. It was high energy, with funny bits of spontaneity that had the crowd and the band in stitches during songs where you would expect it (Boo Time, Green Eggs & Ham); leading to the rhetorical question: does that negate the impetuosity? (I would say, No.) And the show also had emotional moments, but again in songs that always invoke strong feelings (i.e., Fly, Nuits de Reve, The Drinking Song). Perhaps it was an intentional effort on Fr|vous part to keep things normal, as opposed to turning it into the swan song that has been speculated upon  or maybe it was like just another show, cause it was just another show. Then again, and maybe it was just me, I found a new poignancy in some songs as I put them in the context of our collective wondering of whether this was the last time. So I found myself pondering in a new light lines such as: Look straight at the coming disaster; realize what youve lost Hold on tight, lets get it just right; well take our last flight, you and I. I do believe I can't go on this way. Now I know what freedom is on Independence Day. There was an affecting moment that occurred right before the guys hit the stage. Background music was playing as we waited  but then an unusual song began and most of the audience picked up on it and sang along to Whatever Will Be, Will Be (Que Sera Sera) as we realized and acknowledged that indeed, the future is not ours to see. We understand that as far as Moxy Fr|vous goes, whatever will be, will be  we recognize Murray, Jian, Mike and Daves right to make decisions that are best for them as artists and as individuals, and we support them now and in the future. (I know, thats a lot to read into one sing-along.) For a pictorial review, please go to PhotoPoint.com and enter my email address (gingee@fruhead.com) into the spot where it invites you to visit a friends album. (Unfortunately, the shows lighting left a lot to be desired  the photos are a bit dark.) Cheers! Pat Taddei (gingee@fruhead.com) ----- Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web ----- http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam. If this or other posts made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:13:33 -0000 From: "Jill Ellis" Subject: The Con, the Show and Jian's talk Just wanted to stick in a quick comment. Loved the show and the con, thanks to all who took part in the putting together of it. I still have this strange craving for pizza though..a voice from above..eat pizza..lol AJ- the video was great and gave us americans a chance to see some of the videos we hadn't seen yet, and for me to show my friends my .2 seconds of fame (mainly my shoes and me going by really fast) in Sad girl. Paul, moo-time was very amusing and so were the majority of the open mike acts. I am glad I got to meet alot of you and introduce some of my friends from school to my fruhead buddies. I had almost forgotten how much fun it can be to huddle in the cold outside a venue with you guys....almost. :) Thanks for a stress free weekend that was alot of fun..I really needed one. We got to eat at this cute little dinner..conviently located next to Jilly's exotic entertainment (no I was not headling, but check back next week..lol I heard that many a time this weekend) .. and had a couple of drinks at a nice little bar with art and couches. all all around it was a great weekend. Jian's talk about Iran.. an FYI.. just though that I'd let you guys who were at the show know that the next morning the Buffalo paper released a front page article on the bombing complete with names and back ground of the victems and how many people were injured. Jian's talk was the first thing I thought of when I read it. anyhow- thanks again to all who I met (I was wearing a kahki Fredonia bucket hat if you don't remember my name- I am really bad with names so I probably won't remember yours..sorry )who made it a great weekend and to those who put it together. Jill "from Fredonia" _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:30:24 GMT From: Todd Evans Subject: Re: Jian's rant Chad Maloney wrote: > > > I think you think it's pretty clear because you agree with him. > It's a lot easier to preach to the choir, but where does that > get you? I would bet the people who either were unaware of the > occurences or were aware but on the fence about, just sorta tuned him > off or went and got a drink. > > Jian has valid viewpoints. He has a strong system of beliefs and > doesn't mind discussing them. All that is great. What pisses me off > is that there are people who agree whole-heartedly with him > because he is Jian, not because they understand. That's wrong. > > Or maybe I'm just judgemental because in the time he rambled on > about it, they could have played Down from Above or Fell in Love. > I disagree, mainly because I think the politics is part of the show. I'm glad there's a lot of banter at these shows. I can go see just about any other band in the world come out on stage and just play a bunch of songs and not say anything. Moxy Fruvous has an incredible way of making a 10 minute conversation (which is sometimes about absolutely nothing) into something either drop dead funny, extremely touching, or both. Maybe it's just me, but I like people who wear their heart on their sleeve. I prefer it. I live in a VERY conservative part of suburban Atlanta, GA USA. Almost daily, both at work and out in public, I have to endure loudmouth, conservative a**holes running their mouths (usually loudly) with an attitude that seems to say, "everyone here MUST agree with me, right?" That's why Jian is an inspiration to me, personally. I've had it with arrogant right-wingers who have no respect for anyone else's ideas and beliefs. That's what "Gulf War Song" is about, isn't it? There is a live recording I have heard of "Today is the Day That We Fight Back" where Murray (I think) comes to Jian's aid and helps him to ward off a heckler. I think it's pretty obvious that Jian is not the only card-carrying liberal in the band. He just happens to talk about politics a little bit more than the others. He's also damn funny, and damn charming. I don't agree with Jian just because he's Jian, I actually just usually agree with him. I also choose to believe that the people in the audience that are "bored" while Jian is talking are in the minority. Todd ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 01:48:33 GMT From: Dead@thwip.polyamory.org, from@thwip.polyamory.org, the@thwip.polyamory.org, Neck@thwip.polyamory.org, Up@Home.com (Tim the DeadHead) Subject: Opera House Setlist Addition One thing not yet mentioned regarding the setlist.. Only at a Fr|Show could 1000 people spontaneously break into "Que Sara Sara" by Doris Day, and stay on key! I think that an "Honorable Mention" of this rendition should precede the show's setlist, adding this number for posterity. Definitely a high point for a couple of oldsters like Robin and myself! Grins, Tim the DeadHead - -back in Jersey ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V5 #57 *******************************************