From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V5 #36 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Friday, February 2 2001 Volume 05 : Number 036 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Rumours of the End ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: Rumours of the End (fwd) [Katherine Maheux ] Re: Rumours of the End [Katherine Maheux ] Re: Rumours of the End [Marie-Claude Danis ] Re: The scoop! (was Re: Jian Solo Dates) [robinkat22@aol.com (Robin Engle] Re: Rumours of the End [Melanie ] Re: Rumours of the End [Chrissy Jacobs ] Re: Rumours of the End [dalevy@my-deja.com] Re: Rumours of the End [mike96@bluecrow.com (Mike Yoshioka)] Re: Rumours of the End [SugarFly26@aol.com] Re: Rumours of the End [Lori Martin ] Natalia (was Re: The scoop! (was Re: Jian Solo Dates)) [snowgirl@froggern] Re: Rumours of the End [Ellen Buckley ] Re: Moxy "Frankenberry" Fruvous [fruwench@aol.com (ladywench)] Re: Response - OT but oddly appropriate [fruwench@aol.com (ladywench)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 05:31:22 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: Rumours of the End Todd Evans wrote a wonderful post that hopefully will get the newsgroup back on track, even if it does generate spirited discussion (we don't actually have "Flame Wars" here Todd. We just pretend). In part he said: > Why would anyone so > seemingly dedicated to a band, so much so that they take the time to > read the newsgroup, want the band to split? A good question! One might think that the band's latest work was not their best, but it doesn't follow that one should want them to retire. That would be self defeating if you are going to be a fan. Rather one might hope that they would take a break and emerge from the hiatus with revitalized creativity. OTOH, it is possible to BELIEVE that the band is going to retire without wanting it to happen. > I'd like to ask Hugo a few questions. First of all, you say: > > > I feel as though they've already been in neutral as a group for a few > years. > > What is it about 'Thornhill' and 'The "C" Album' that you feel is sub > par? These are two very different, diverse albums - both representing > the most recent output from the band. Does anyone here really think > that either of these albums represents a downward slide in quality from > Moxy Fruvous? If so, I respectfully disagree. C was a disappointment to a lot of us, I think, not because of what was on it, but because of what it lacked. There were so many tunes we were hoping they would put on there, but instead they chose stuff that amounted to more or less filler material, with the only "meat" really being Pisco. I personally think this was a sign of them being anxious for a break, rather than of them being "in neutral". Likewise, i do not believe that Thornhill is their best work, but that does not necessarily indicate that they are all washed up. > Hugo also says: > > > Nothing against those people who discovered the band > > more recently than not, but take a look around you at who is as > > committed to the band as you are. > > What do you mean by that, Hugo, and just how am I supposed to take that > comment as "nothing against" me? Do you mean that I will look around > myself at the con and notice that all the hip and smart people don't > like Fruvous as much as I do? So it's no longer "cool" to be dedicated > to Fruvous. Maybe I should change my ways. Certainly as a 36 year old > I am not quite as enthusiastic an R.E.M. fan as I was in 1985, but that > doesn't mean that I am going to drop them, or that they are no longer > worth my time. I'm not sure how you can think that comment is not > insulting - it is. He's got you there Hugo. You tried to insinuate that he's only in the company of fishgirls, but you ought to know that isn't true. You don't have to be a psycho Jistalker to still like Fruvous. That is nonsense, and quite frankly I'm very tired of all the people trying to show how hip they are by band bashing. I've been around here long enough to know my Frucognosenti credentials are quite sound, and I can tell you that I and people I know well are not impressed with bashers. > The last thing I want to do on this newsgroup is start another flame > war, Not flame war, DISCUSSION! (And on topic too!!!) :) > and I don't mean for my comments to Hugo to come across as > personal. I swear - I really mean that! Knowing Hugo I don't think he'll take them that way, although I'm sure you will get a good argument nevertheless. > I just get very frustrated at > the timing of those comments. I think the last thing we need to be > doing at a time like this is suggesting that Fruvous isn't worth > continuing - especially in a forum that the guys could possibly read. Why is that? I don't see why they need to be shielded from opinions. They are grownups. (besides, Jian don't read this anymore). > Usually when I share opinions like this in a newsgroup, I get comments > like "You're just a FANBOY!" or "They don't walk on water, you know!" > Fine - whatever. I just can't understand why anyone who is dedicated > enough to take the time to read this newsgroup would wish for the band's > demise. It just doesn't make sense to me. No that won't happen to you here. You haven't claimed to be good friends with them yet. THAT is when that stuff starts. :) > Sorry to cast such gloom on the newsgroup with my downer of a post, > especially when there is such a fun event to look forward to! Actually I rather thought it was a breath of fresh air! :) A.J. (hoping that the ol' newsgroup rouses itself and gets going again. - -- "I know there is a lot of ambition in Washington, obviously. But I hope the ambitious realize that they are more likely to succeed with success as opposed to failure." - --G.W. Bush, Interview with the Associated Press, Jan. 18, 2001 Email:aj@locicero.org ICQ: 13117113 AIM: locicero For some of the best Long Distance and Calling Card rates around visit http://www.ld.net/?sensible. Cheap rates and *I* get a commission! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 07:21:42 GMT From: Katherine Maheux Subject: Re: Rumours of the End (fwd) Lynne wrote: after all "some of them" [wink at hKath] just couldn't! > :) I must be really dense, but... Huh? What are you referring to? :) Kath ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 07:31:40 GMT From: Katherine Maheux Subject: Re: Rumours of the End "A.J. LoCicero" wrote: You don't > have to be a psycho Jistalker to still like Fruvous. Hi, Kath the psycho Jistalker here... :D That is nonsense, > and quite frankly I'm very tired of all the people trying to show how > hip they are by band bashing. I've been around here long enough to know > my Frucognosenti credentials are quite sound, and I can tell you that I > and people I know well are not impressed with bashers. Amen! These people don't know who they are, it seems, and if you meet one, don't be afraid to say "You are trying to make yourself seem |ber-cool by bashing people *I* think are cool. This is wrong. You are not cool." > No that won't happen to you here. You haven't claimed to be good > friends with them yet. THAT is when that stuff starts. :) Heh. Heheheh. AJ's not kidding. Never do that here :) Kath o/~ Later tonight, meet me down in the lab - C'mon girl, I wanna show you what I made o/~ o/~ It might make you naseous, you might want to leave - But don't you think it's wonderful and - Don't you think it kinda looks like me? o/~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 07:37:13 GMT From: Marie-Claude Danis Subject: Re: Rumours of the End Katherine Maheux wrote: > o/~ Later tonight, meet me down in the lab - C'mon girl, I wanna show > you what I made o/~ > > o/~ It might make you naseous, you might want to leave - But don't you > think it's wonderful and - Don't you think it kinda looks like me? o/~ I *HEART* DANNY MICHEL (Back off, b*tches!) - -- Marie-Claude Danis http://verticalcrawl.com "Fair is fair Take a shot if you dare No guy shies from a fight On a Thornhill summer night And a man is a man When he's got a gun in his hand Well I never wanted to destroy I always made a lousy boy" - -- Jian Ghomeshi ------------------------------ Date: 01 Feb 2001 14:22:39 GMT From: robinkat22@aol.com (Robin Engle) Subject: Re: The scoop! (was Re: Jian Solo Dates) >..wasn't Natalia the girl sitting on the speaker at FruCon 2?? I don't know. Unfortunately, last year was my first Con. ( We had a great time, and we're really looking forward to this one!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:49:08 -0500 From: Melanie Subject: Re: Rumours of the End >> "A.J. LoCicero wrote: Todd Evans wrote a wonderful post that hopefully will get the newsgroup back on track<< Ah, a discussion worth getting into. The thought of "the end of the band" strikes fear into the hearts of some of us. Perhaps we need to get a life, but Moxy Fruvous has added FUN to my life. Not just the band, but you guys as well even though I don't know most of you. As for the band, IMO what they excell at is entertaining. Have you ever seen a Fruvirgin come into a concert having little idea what to expect and watching their faces as the concert progresses? I've seen people become mesmerized and say something like "I had no idea." For some people, it's a kind of magic. It was for me. Yes, I got drawn in by "Bargainville" but it was my first concert that kept me buying albums--both for myself and to give away. Was the band starting to slip? Boy, the concert in Cincinnati last June was no indication. It was at Bogart's and it was packed with both the faithful and the curious. And it was great! But how much physical and emotional energy must it take to do that! After awhile it must take its toll. And there must be ambivalence in appreciating such faithful fans and not wanting to be devoured by them. I hope this is just a break and that they'll return renewed, restored, and inspired. But then, I am the eternal optimist. And I think Thornhill CONTAINED some of their best work as did Wood as did Live Noise as did, etc. . . . peace, melanie (who cannot go to FruCon. pout.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:50:33 -0800 From: Chrissy Jacobs Subject: Re: Rumours of the End ok, a lurker speaks.. i agree that this is actually an interesting discussion for a change, and a worthwhile one to participate in. it occurred to me that one reason some people might feel that the band is going "downhill" is due to the very nature of the grassroots-based evolution of the band. in the beginning (or at least a few years ago), shows were small and the fan-base was small. fans that have been around since then may think fondly about those shows and compare them unfavorably with the larger and more impersonal shows of the last year or so. i for one went to my first show in fall of 1999 (where i experienced the "magic" that melanie mentioned), but my husband had been going since years before that. he told me just yesterday about a show where mike's guitar string broke and there was an extended jam involving trumpets from big rude jake while it was being fixed. he said it was the best concert moment (of any performer) he's experienced, and that he doesn't think a thing like that could happen anymore. but... it's largely because of those great shows in bygone years that the fan base has grown. the vicious circle i guess. so now the audiences are different so the shows are different so the band evolves. this is considered success by some, and possibly "downsliding" by others. anyway, i like whatever fruvous i can get, and i hope they continue touring (on the west coast!) occaisionally. chrissy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 20:45:23 GMT From: dalevy@my-deja.com Subject: Re: Rumours of the End I may be in the minority, but I do think Thornhill represents some of Fruvous' best work. If only Bargainville were produced and performed with the sophistication of Thornhill, the Fruvous history I think would be quite different. OTOH, one of the reasons I enjoy their shows so much is hearing Bargainville songs today that were entirely different in 1996 when I first saw the band. Doug In article <3A78F497.1615A4F3@locicero.org>, "A.J. LoCicero" wrote: > C was a disappointment to a lot of us, I think, not because of what was > on it, but because of what it lacked. There were so many tunes we were > hoping they would put on there, but instead they chose stuff that > amounted to more or less filler material, with the only "meat" really > being Pisco. I personally think this was a sign of them being anxious > for a break, rather than of them being "in neutral". > > Likewise, i do not believe that Thornhill is their best work, but that > does not necessarily indicate that they are all washed up. > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 22:49:54 GMT From: mike96@bluecrow.com (Mike Yoshioka) Subject: Re: Rumours of the End On Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:50:33 -0800, Chrissy Jacobs spoke up: Some good points :) but, I really wanted to ask: > >anyway, i like whatever fruvous i can get, and i hope they continue touring (on the west >coast!) occaisionally. Whereabouts on the West Coast are you? :) BC, Canada for me :) Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 17:58:40 EST From: SugarFly26@aol.com Subject: Re: Rumours of the End Chrissy mentioned that she thinks shows have gotten more impersonal...I think that's a hard thing to determine. Obviously, fan base has gotten larger, indications being that they can now play larger venues and sell out or at least get larger crowds than before...on the other hand, where you are able to see them affects that. When I saw them in Amherst in December 99, I was a lot closer to them, and the area was smaller (or so it seemed) than ones I usually go to, so it felt like a more personal show. Of course, my only other Fruvous show to compare it to was seeing them at the Iron Horse in Northampton the previous Halloween..so I don't have as much to contribute here..but still, I think it depends on how you happen to get to see them. I definitely do agree with whoever said that Thornhill contained some of their best work, as did Live Noise and all the others contain some best work. (I mean, look at If Only You Knew..) And I haven't even heard C...but somehow, I can't see anything they do being a disappointment to me..Maybe that's just cuz I'm a somewhat "recent finder" of Fruvous or whatever that phrase was. ::shrug:: - --------> Ln ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:05:19 -0500 From: Lori Martin Subject: Re: Rumours of the End dalevy@my-deja.com wrote: > I may be in the minority, but I do think Thornhill represents some of > Fruvous' best work. If only Bargainville were produced and performed > with the sophistication of Thornhill, the Fruvous history I think would > be quite different. I'd agree here I think Thornhill is the most stylistically comprehensive and musically mature of the CDs, although each of the others certainly contains gems. I don't think Fruvous was musically capable of pulling off songs like Independence Day and My Poor Generation in the early days. Their experience in writing, and their dramatically increased instrumental and vocal skill, definitely shows on Thornhill. And on that note, Thornhill is the Fruvous *CD* that I find myself listening to most often. If I want to hear songs from earlier albums, I usually pull out a bootleg, because I want to hear a live version, not the studio track. We've said time and time again that they're definitely a band to see live, but Thornhill is the studio CD that stands alone for me as a "play a few songs off this one, and if people are at all disposed to like Fruvous *musically*, this will cinch it." Live Noise of course solidifies the conversion. ;) - -- Lori Glitter Fairy/Tattooing Fru/High Priestess, Murray's Sect ~~~~~~~~ He deserves Paradise who makes his companions laugh. ~~ the Koran He deserves Paradise who allows his companions to cry. ~~ me ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 03:46:10 GMT From: snowgirl@froggernet.com (Snow In Summer) Subject: Natalia (was Re: The scoop! (was Re: Jian Solo Dates)) On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:13:53 -0600 (CST), Lynne wrote: > ...wasn't Natalia the girl sitting on the speaker at FruCon 2?? I >rememebr this story on a placemat, at hte golden griddle place... or >something.... > rumour has it: yes. of course, unsubstantiated rumour & opinion are sometimes frowned upon on this NG, so perhaps some more "Frucognosent" person could definitely give a yes or no. i don't want ppl to think that i'm always bitchy & spreading wild rumours. - -Snow, worried more about getting U2 tickets than anything Fruvous or Fruheads can throw at her. Snow In Summer is: Amy Brunner Buffalo, NY snonsumr on Undernet ICQ: 66490189 snowgirl at froggernet dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 23:00:03 -0500 From: Ellen Buckley Subject: Re: Rumours of the End A.J. LoCicero wrote: > C was a disappointment to a lot of us, I think, not because of what > was on it, but because of what it lacked. There were so many tunes > we were hoping they would put on there, but instead they chose stuff > that amounted to more or less filler material, with the only "meat" > really being Pisco. I personally think this was a sign of them > being anxious for a break, rather than of them being "in neutral". while i kinda agree with AJ about C seeming mostly like filler, i have to interject that (IMO) there's a bit more substance on there than just pisco. i REALLY LIKE heatseeker boy and am glad it made it onto a CD before the hiatus. and pork tenderloin grew, i think, from a one-shot joke to a really nice ditty that could have held its own on "b." but yeah, C was a bit of a let-down to me, too. to my ears, thornhill was a real labor of love. i think they put their heart and soul into it (hoping it would be their breakthrough? making it a really *powerful* swan song? who knows...), and it shows. which is to say that i find it a really stirring album, and it *is* probably my favorite. except for those days when wood is my favorite. > A.J. (hoping that the ol' newsgroup rouses itself and gets going again. peace, ellen (doing her part) ------------------------------ Date: 02 Feb 2001 04:28:56 GMT From: fruwench@aol.com (ladywench) Subject: Re: Moxy "Frankenberry" Fruvous Hmmmm . . . with my real name, they think I should be "six toes. I prefer lady "the Bastard" wench FruSpace - We came, we saw, we slept on the floor. My life is an ever changing kaleidoscope . . . look at all the pretty colors!! ------------------------------ Date: 02 Feb 2001 04:35:19 GMT From: fruwench@aol.com (ladywench) Subject: Re: Response - OT but oddly appropriate Vika directed us to: >http://www.newspoetry.com/1999/991208.html I loved it!!!! Thank you. :-) ladywench FruSpace - We came, we saw, we slept on the floor. My life is an ever changing kaleidoscope . . . look at all the pretty colors!! ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V5 #36 *******************************************