From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V5 #32 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Monday, January 29 2001 Volume 05 : Number 032 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: ***Frucon Update*** (fwd) [wahrend@my-deja.com] Re: ***Frucon Update*** (fwd) [wahrend@my-deja.com] Re: Frucon pub event: a question for the masses [Marie-Claude Danis ] Welcome Todd! (was: Re: ***Frucon Update*** (fwd) ) [Lori Martin ] Fruvous et al [Marie-Claude Danis ] my bad [wahrend@my-deja.com] Re: ***Frucon Update*** (fwd) ["Sigrid B." ] Re: Frucon pub event: a question for the masses [Melanie ] Re: ***Frucon Update*** (fwd) [piscopinto@aol.com (PISCOPINTO)] Re: my bad [piscopinto@aol.com (PISCOPINTO)] Re: ***Frucon Update*** [wahrend@my-deja.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 05:43:30 GMT From: wahrend@my-deja.com Subject: Re: ***Frucon Update*** (fwd) > Bill, please don't waste your noble brain power "visualizing whirled > pears". Try visualizing world peace instead. World peace? what fun is that? wage war wo-man, wooooooo-man! Hmmm.. I have nothing sarcastic or creative to say at the moment, so I'll just .. go back to the rock. "wild" Bill She stole my heart and my cat. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 05:49:31 GMT From: wahrend@my-deja.com Subject: Re: ***Frucon Update*** (fwd) > Damn you drive a hard bargain. Ok, and you take personal cheques > right? Yes, my name is Hideo Nomo*. Honest. Yeah, and I'm about to change the deal again.. you might want to get Renita to help you find some of those orange chocolate aero bars. They're a disaster, but like a car wreck you just can't stop staring at them... > Our twenties used to be the same colour as your, erm, > everydenomination. :P Just one step closer to our eventual annexation of your state... errr.. country. :) > You're just jealous of our colour :D Colour envy can be a bad thing. What do you color blind people in canada do? they probably have to actually pay attention to the bills in their wallet. > * I wanted to say a Japanese hockey player, but, well, there really > isn't any. Paul Kariya, but he's only half japanese I think. He's the only one that immediately comes to mind. Having been to Japan there are parts which regularly get snow so it wouldn't be unheard of that there are people that play hockey (like pond hockey).. unlike a place like say... phoenix where it is probably very unlikely. "wild" Bill Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:42:40 GMT From: Marie-Claude Danis Subject: Re: Frucon pub event: a question for the masses doug wrote: > What kind of beer is the "favorite" among Fruheads? [...] But my personal > favorite among Canadian beers is Le Fin du Monde, a terrific Belgian style > beer brewed I think in Quebec. Yeah, it's brewed in Quebec, and it is quite nummy. Put me down for La Fin du Monde, and some Harp. - -- Marie-Claude Danis http://www.verticalcrawl.com "I am NOT a pixie girl!" - Jian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:33:26 GMT From: Todd Evans Subject: Re: ***Frucon Update*** (fwd) Hi Fruheads! Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Todd and I live in Atlanta, GA USA. I've been lurking here for a few weeks. I just discovered Moxy Fruvous this past December thanks to my very receptive wife who did some internet research and bought me Bargainville for Christmas. "You'll probably like these guys," she said. Six CD purchases later, I'm headed for Toronto! I've made plans to fly to Toronto (all by my lonesome) and attend both the show and the Con. I already have my tickets. : ) I'm probably going to volunteer as well. After reading Amy/Snow in Summer's comments about why she is NOT attending the Con, I felt like I had to speak up. It seems to me that an event like Frucon is what you make of it. If you want to have a good time, you will. If you show up with a bad attitude and a chip on your shoulder, you probably won't. I say this as a relatively shy person who is a bit apprehensive about going to the Con all by myself. The reason I decided to come up there is that I just have a feeling that I will meet some great left-thinking folks (I live in Cobb County, Georgia - home of Newt Gingrich - ugh!) and have a great time. At least I hope so! I've just discovered this band, and I love them dearly. I'm VERY sensitive to the discussion of their demise. I personally don't see any evidence of that except for a few comments on this newsgroup. Is there any evidence that suggests they are "hanging it up?" Certainly posts like Amy's won't help, if by chance they read them. It reminds me of some discussion on the TMBG newsgroup around 1994 that stemmed from the lyrics of the song "The End of the Tour." We all know 1994 wasn't the end for them. Maybe I've missed some discussion that suggests MF are finished, and perhaps someone could bring me up to speed privately if that is the case. Maybe they would just like some time off - don't we all like time off? If I go to the Con and no one talks to me, I promise I won't take it personally. It will probably be my own fault, as it will most likely mean that I wasn't outgoing enough. You all are very lucky up there to have a band like Moxy Fruvous that you can see many times and have a community spirit amongst your fellow fans. The band never comes down here, and getting my southern friends to listen to them has been a constant, uphill battle. Let's make Frucon a great experience for everyone - the best Frucon ever! I'll driving in to Toronto Friday evening/Saturday morning (the 16th/17th) from Buffalo (I was born there, by the way!) around 1:00 AM. If anyone wants to look for a quiet guy with black glasses at the Con and say hello, it will be appreciated. See some of you soon, Todd Snow In Summer wrote: > > after all this ranting about, i'm quite sure i've made the right > decision (for me) and decided not to waste my money on the con. sure, > i'll be at the show that night should anyone want to bring me up to > speed on who won the coveted "best shoes" award or whose caterwauling > was somehow lauded as the "breakout sensation of the Con." i actually > have to admit that i only attended the last Con for the raffle and > free water. i guess that's because i spent every show crying my eyes > out for no apparent reason (thanks for your concern, but it's 11 > months too late) and i could count the number of peple who actually > spoke to me at the Con (besides "excuse me, you're in my way") on two > hands and still have fingers left to tie my shoes. > i suppose it's 'cause i'm not as social as i used to be in the Fruhead > community, or i just don't feel the need anymore to spend money that > could be better used on car repairs, bills, rent or food... to traipse > around the country to follow *a band,* a band that is most likely > hanging it up after this month (save a few "reunion tours" to profit > from the devoted Fruhead following who haven't found another band to > chase all over the continent). > see you in Toronto. :p i'll be in the back of the room taking bets on > how late the band will be for this show... anything under 15 minutes > will not be accepted. > -Snow, getting out her marshmallows & hoping this will melt the couple > month old snow pack in her front yard. > > Snow In Summer is: > Amy Brunner Buffalo, NY > snonsumr on Undernet ICQ: 66490189 > snowgirl at froggernet dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 08:44:26 -0500 From: Lori Martin Subject: Welcome Todd! (was: Re: ***Frucon Update*** (fwd) ) Todd Evans wrote: > Hi Fruheads! Hi Todd! And welcome to amm-f. It seems you're pretty intrepid if you've stuck with this nasty thread and decided to make your inaugural post on it. Your point of view as a new fan is refreshing to see. It's good to know that even on hiatus Fruvous is expanding its fan base. You're quite likely to meet "left-thinking folks" at the Con, and I hope that despite your apprehension you have a blast. Please know that usually Fruheads aren't as testy with each other as we've been on this discussion thread. You likely will have a great time that weekend, and form acquaintanceships with some good, warm, welcoming people. Don't be afraid to introduce yourself to people -- in my experience most Fruheads are glad to meet other Fruheads. And if I see someone wearing a nametag that says "Todd" I'll be sure to break the ice. :) Oh, if you want to get up to speed on the newsgroup, check out the FAQ at http://www.fruvous.com. I promise you it's not usually as ugly as it's been these past few days. Generally it's a rather friendly and accepting corner of the net. Again, welcome! - -- Lori Glitter Fairy/Tattooing Fru/High Priestess, Murray's Sect ~~~~~~~~ He deserves Paradise who makes his companions laugh. ~~ the Koran He deserves Paradise who allows his companions to cry. ~~ me ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:59:40 GMT From: loren@bosconet.org Subject: Re: Fri eve > > Jian? What's that? No way. I'm... staying in for a ruthless game > > of "Learning Spanish from a CD Rom". Who's with me? > > Oh, I am *so* there. Perhaps we should raise the stakes a little this > time ... winnner gets a futon. i'm in. the question is how many of the rules can we actually remember. and i'll see your futon and raise you...a wax cat. those things are damn valuable, y'know. /l Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:16:49 -0500 From: Melanie Subject: Re: MFSW: Round 5 results! Adam wrote: >>Cumulative votes: Losers Pisco Bandito: 73 King of Spain: 77 Fell in Love: 65 (More votes than Sahara!) My baby loves a bunch of authors: 67<< I don't think it's appropriate to call any of these songs "losers." They are simply the ones which received fewer votes. There IS a distinction. melanie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:01:22 GMT From: Marie-Claude Danis Subject: Fruvous et al Hi Todd! You breath of fresh air, you! Todd wrote: > I've just discovered this band, and I love them dearly. I'm VERY > sensitive to the discussion of their demise. I personally don't see any > evidence of that except for a few comments on this newsgroup. Is there > any evidence that suggests they are "hanging it up?" No evidence per se. Officially, the boys have been on hiatus since September, and will likely be on hiatus for a good part of 2001. Summer festivals had been considered, but we'll have to see if they go through with that. As it is, the February show is the only planned show in 2001. We're very grateful that Fruvous will once again add to the FruCon weekend by performing -- and this year, it feels like even more of a treat! Meanwhile, Jian is doing extremely well as a debuting solo artist and making legions of new fans for himself. He will be recording an album in the spring. And Dave's own solo project should be released in the very near future. Both are excellent performers by themselves (granted, I've seen Jian more than Dave, but I'm still pretty confident in making that statement), and while they are only slightly reminiscent of Fruvous The Band, they are just as good -- and I'm truly not exagerating. So, welcome Todd, and have a blast! - -- Marie-Claude Danis http://www.verticalcrawl.com "Fair is fair Take a shot if you dare No guy shies from a fight On a Thornhill summer night And a man is a man When he's got a gun in his hand But I never wanted to destroy I always made a lousy boy" - -- Jian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:34:28 GMT From: wahrend@my-deja.com Subject: my bad Hmmm.. don't use this deja news account very much so I want to appologize to some of the people whom have sent me email and I haven't responded ... in like years :). Actually, I just wrote a couple of emails from this account not looking at the date on the emails (duh! 1998). I appologize if it appears as though I was ignoring you, that really wasn't the case. Wow.. some of emails are a blast from the past though (info on road trips, lyrics to the muppet songs, etc). Carry on. "wild" Bill Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:43:06 -0000 From: "Sigrid B." Subject: Re: ***Frucon Update*** (fwd) Hello Todd! First of all: WELCOME! I like the way you think and would like to applaud your enthusiasm and your willingness to come to Toronto for the Con and concert without knowing a soul. Try not to feel apprehensive about coming - we're really quite nice! I can promise you that your not knowing anyone won't stay that way long!! And I hope the current flame wars will not make you change your mind. By the way, have you given any thought at all to volunteering? It would be an excellent way to meet people, there are a variety of positions available and donating an hour of your time would help out the Con immensely! If you're interested, you can email the volunteer committee at fruconvols@yahoo.com and they'll be able to give you the entire scoop. No pressure!!! Again welcome and see you in Toronto soon! Sigrid - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Todd Evans To: ammf@fruvous.com Subject: Re: ***Frucon Update*** (fwd) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:33:26 GMT Hi Fruheads! Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Todd and I live in Atlanta, GA USA. I've been lurking here for a few weeks. I just discovered Moxy Fruvous this past December thanks to my very receptive wife who did some internet research and bought me Bargainville for Christmas. "You'll probably like these guys," she said. Six CD purchases later, I'm headed for Toronto! I've made plans to fly to Toronto (all by my lonesome) and attend both the show and the Con. I already have my tickets. : ) I'm probably going to volunteer as well. After reading Amy/Snow in Summer's comments about why she is NOT attending the Con, I felt like I had to speak up. It seems to me that an event like Frucon is what you make of it. If you want to have a good time, you will. If you show up with a bad attitude and a chip on your shoulder, you probably won't. I say this as a relatively shy person who is a bit apprehensive about going to the Con all by myself. The reason I decided to come up there is that I just have a feeling that I will meet some great left-thinking folks (I live in Cobb County, Georgia - home of Newt Gingrich - ugh!) and have a great time. At least I hope so! I've just discovered this band, and I love them dearly. I'm VERY sensitive to the discussion of their demise. I personally don't see any evidence of that except for a few comments on this newsgroup. Is there any evidence that suggests they are "hanging it up?" Certainly posts like Amy's won't help, if by chance they read them. It reminds me of some discussion on the TMBG newsgroup around 1994 that stemmed from the lyrics of the song "The End of the Tour." We all know 1994 wasn't the end for them. Maybe I've missed some discussion that suggests MF are finished, and perhaps someone could bring me up to speed privately if that is the case. Maybe they would just like some time off - don't we all like time off? If I go to the Con and no one talks to me, I promise I won't take it personally. It will probably be my own fault, as it will most likely mean that I wasn't outgoing enough. You all are very lucky up there to have a band like Moxy Fruvous that you can see many times and have a community spirit amongst your fellow fans. The band never comes down here, and getting my southern friends to listen to them has been a constant, uphill battle. Let's make Frucon a great experience for everyone - the best Frucon ever! I'll driving in to Toronto Friday evening/Saturday morning (the 16th/17th) from Buffalo (I was born there, by the way!) around 1:00 AM. If anyone wants to look for a quiet guy with black glasses at the Con and say hello, it will be appreciated. See some of you soon, Todd Snow In Summer wrote: > > after all this ranting about, i'm quite sure i've made the right > decision (for me) and decided not to waste my money on the con. sure, > i'll be at the show that night should anyone want to bring me up to > speed on who won the coveted "best shoes" award or whose caterwauling > was somehow lauded as the "breakout sensation of the Con." i actually > have to admit that i only attended the last Con for the raffle and > free water. i guess that's because i spent every show crying my eyes > out for no apparent reason (thanks for your concern, but it's 11 > months too late) and i could count the number of peple who actually > spoke to me at the Con (besides "excuse me, you're in my way") on two > hands and still have fingers left to tie my shoes. > i suppose it's 'cause i'm not as social as i used to be in the Fruhead > community, or i just don't feel the need anymore to spend money that > could be better used on car repairs, bills, rent or food... to traipse > around the country to follow *a band,* a band that is most likely > hanging it up after this month (save a few "reunion tours" to profit > from the devoted Fruhead following who haven't found another band to > chase all over the continent). > see you in Toronto. :p i'll be in the back of the room taking bets on > how late the band will be for this show... anything under 15 minutes > will not be accepted. > -Snow, getting out her marshmallows & hoping this will melt the couple > month old snow pack in her front yard. > > Snow In Summer is: > Amy Brunner Buffalo, NY > snonsumr on Undernet ICQ: 66490189 > snowgirl at froggernet dot com _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:02:39 -0500 From: Melanie Subject: Re: Frucon pub event: a question for the masses I'm a Black & Tan fan. Unfortunately, I won't be in Toronto to tip a few. Melanie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:18:38 -0500 From: Melanie Subject: Re: Welcome Todd! Lori Martin wrote: >>It's good to know that even on hiatus Fruvous is expanding its fan base.<< I know of 6 people who have discovered Fruvous and become fans since the hiatus began. It gives me hope. Hi, Todd. I can't go to FruCon and I'm very bummed about it. I went last year with some hesitation and wished I had arrived earlier in the day. It was fun, and everyone seems to be congenial face to face. An evil gremlin sometimes creeps into the newsgroup. melanie ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jan 2001 00:27:25 GMT From: piscopinto@aol.com (PISCOPINTO) Subject: Re: ***Frucon Update*** (fwd) >Hmmm.. I have nothing sarcastic or creative to say at the moment, so >I'll just .. go back to the rock. > >"wild" Bill > >She stole my heart and my cat. > > Meow! Angel Peca stole my wallet and my dreams. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jan 2001 00:39:12 GMT From: piscopinto@aol.com (PISCOPINTO) Subject: Re: my bad >Hmmm.. don't use this deja news account very much so I want to >appologize to some of the people whom have sent me email and I haven't >responded ... in like years :). Actually, I just wrote a couple of >emails from this account not looking at the date on the emails (duh! >1998). I appologize if it appears as though I was ignoring you, that >really wasn't the case. Wow.. some of emails are a blast from the past >though (info on road trips, lyrics to the muppet songs, etc). > >Carry on. > >"wild" Bill > > *and someone in a place far, far away narrowly avoids gouging their eyes out (pronounced "oat") Thank goodness for the public service announcements. Now can ya do something useful like visualizing whirled... oh, nevermind! ;) Angel Satan #81 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 00:11:34 GMT From: wahrend@my-deja.com Subject: Re: ***Frucon Update*** > That is bs. It became personal the moment you started questioning > people's motives in asking a question. It became personal the moment > you announced the question was "idiotic" and since you didn't care > enough to "badger" or "harass" the Committee (big assumption there; > did they ever tell the newsgroup they felt harassed?) no one else > should care either unless they could give you a "good reason". Questions can be idiotic without the person asking them being idiotic. I know lots of really really smart people who ask really stupid questions at times. I know I ask lots of stupid questions and I don't see myself as anything really special. But I digress. > Since you have so many questions about my motives, I have one for > you: why did you feel the need to answer in a defensive way, > impugning the motives of anyone who had a question, instead of just > saying "as a non-Committee member just like Hugo, I don't see why the > number is important"? That would have been discussion, not the > shooting-down-with-contempt that's been passing for discourse here > over the past few days. Hmmm.. you mean to say I didn't say that I didn't feel knowing the number was important? Or that you've misconstrued what I have said. Basically, to sum up.. again. I said that the question is idiotic (not that you or hugo or anyone else, that the question is idiotic. I'm very loose with my spelling an grammar, but I think that the "the question" is certainly the possesor of the "is idiotic"). Because it's not important to anyone outside the committee. OR .. it is important IF you are going to do X, Y, Z.. etc. I am not making assumptions to your motivies, I am just listing out possible motives SHOULD someone really want to know how many tickets are left. Please NOTE that I have made special emphasis so that perhaps you won't mix up what I am actually saying again. > ANd since you've already made it personal, I guess I'm allowed to do > the same and say I must say I'm glad you and Richard didn't choose > teaching as careers. I fail to see what this has to do with anything. And I will have you note that I tutored a number of students when I was in college, I taught german to first graders when I was in high school. both of which I did pretty damn well. I haven't made this personal. You have. If you really want to get personal, I will supply you my email address and we can both tell each other what we really think. And the fact that Dr. Butterworth is a teacher and hasn't been fired, etc. that it might be safe to assume that you probably don't have your degree in character reading via the internet. > I can see each of you with students now. "That's an idiotic > question! What reason could you possibly have for wanting to know > that? Stop bothering me, you should be able to tell I don't want to > answer you!" No, if you actually READ what I wrote you would see that I gave you reasons why you MIGHT want to know and I gave reasons why the people MIGHT not tell you. I also asked you to do something which was to come up reasons why you THINK you MIGHT want to know besides those answers or THINK MIGHT benefit people telling you. Did I assign motive to you. No. So basically, being the snarky professor that I am now the sequence would be something similar to this: Student A: "why don't companies disclose to their members deals which might be happening? something like a merger perhaps" Me, being a snarky professor: "cause that would be stupid. the only purpose that would serve would be to allow members of the company to buy stock prior to the merger and do something very illegal, like insider trading which would put them all in jail. can you come up with a reason why the company would want to disclose this information?" Student A: "ummm.. you called me stupid, what type of teacher are you?" Nothing wrong with saying that a question is stupid, esp. if the question is stupid. Of course some questions perhaps you just don't tell people it's stupid let them find out on their own. Why don't you run format C:\? (not your personally, just an example of a dumb question) > "And what do YOU care anyway? Can't you > see he's just trying to harass me? What's wrong with you -- why do > YOU need to know anyway? Curiosity isn't a good reason for wanting > to know anything!" Oh yeah, we're certainly not making mountains out of mole hills now. To draw this kind of statement from what either richard or myself has written is completely and utterly absurd. > There's a simple term for that kind of attempt to influence opinion > and position through derision: peer pressure. The past 72 hours > have been sadly enlightening to me, because I never thought I had > enemies on amm-f -- until I piped up and said "why can't the man get > a simple answer so we can be done with this?" that is. Suddenly, not > just debate lines but battle lines were drawn. Somehow Hugo and I > are on one "side" without ever forming an alliance. (Welcome to > the "ranks", Lynne :) ) And Richard and Bill are on the other. > How totally schoolyard it all seems. You're making me cry here. Seriously, I know that my night is completely ruined. It's pretty sad when you think that I have a serious issue with you. And it's doubly sad if you think that Richard and I are teaming up against you. I know I certainly have better things to occupy my time than basically is a whole lot of fluff about absolutely nothing (of course everything is basically a whole lot of fluff about absolutely nothing, but I suppose that is discourse for an audience that might be able to handle such a topic). > The ironic thing is, the Committee now has given an answer, but the > rest of us still are flailing away over need to know, right to know, > and reason for wanting to know information have decided is fit for > public consumption. Rest of who? The only people I know who want to know are you and hugo. Everyone else doesn't care or they do but it isn't really going to effect whether or not they come if they don't know. As far as I am aware the committee has gotten no email asking about it, yes, the tidal wave of requests asking for the amount of tickets sold is overwhelming. > So much for the function of a newsgroup. "Ask topical questions -- > but only those that other readers understand the motivation for", I > guess is a warning that needs to be added to the FAQ. Confrontations on newsgroups have been around for as long there has been usenet. If you think that ammf is some sorta holy ground, you are obviously new. Flame wars have been here in the past and they'll probably be here in the future, with or without the aide of Richard or myself. I think a better thing to add the FAQ would be, "feel free to ask what you want or say what you want, but be prepared for consquences of what you ask". Like back in the good ole days when people used to ask about the sexual orientations of band members. These people were met with a LOT of derision. The questions were stupid and in my inappropriate, but they were on topic and no a lot of people didn't understand their motivations. for example: post a: "is X gay?" post b: "why the hell do you care?" post b': "would you stop listening to them if X were gay?" post b'': "that's a really dumb question since it has nothing to do with the music or it's enjoyment" post a: "I wanna know how many tickets are sold to the con?" post b: "why do you wanna know?" <- pretty legit question, don't you think? post b': "is this really going to effect whether or not you go to the con?" > Oh, to answer another of your questions, yes I have on occasion asked > a small venue how many seats are left, particularly if I know other > people who also want to get tickets. And they have always been > willing to share either a general figure or an exact number, often > adding information on how ticket sales are going and whether they > expect to sell out or not. They don't seem to think the question is > an unwarranted intrusion into their operational strategy -- they seem > to view it as "getting the word out". Of course, I've picked the one person on the earth who asks this question. But playing with this, that's great. This isn't the same as asking it for the con and I can give you a good reason off the top of my head. A small venue environment like say a theatre or a club assumes the operational cost of not selling out the event or not covering all the expenses. It's part of the business. So, if Guster doesn't sell enough tickets to cover the guarentee that the venue gives to the band, the venue sucks up the loss and Guster is not invited back until they get more popular, etc. If the con doesn't sell out or doesn't sell some sort of minimum ticket requirement (probably close to selling out), it probably comes out AJ's pocket. In which case, he will be very unhappy and then nobody gets a con next year (???) because nobody would want to assume the financial risk of putting on a con. Then of course, the small club probably provides the club itself and the sound system, etc and doesn't require a lot of advance ticket sales inorder for said room and soundsystem to show up. I think I've said my peace on this subject and have spent far too much time on something (the question posed) that is IDIOTIC. If you want to continue this, you or anyone else who feels like I've maligned them can feel free to email me @ wildbill AT fruhead.com (given so I can whipe out the email if I get overloaded with SPAM). "wild" Bill Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V5 #32 *******************************************