From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V4 #330 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Wednesday, August 2 2000 Volume 04 : Number 330 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Mostly OT: Budgies [elisefru@my-deja.com] Re: What to play to a non-fruvophile? [Chad Maloney ] Re: Mostly OT: Budgies [Chad Maloney ] Re: Ghosts of Fruvous; obsessions [Lori Martin ] Re: Ghosts of Fruvous; obsessions [Donna Hunt ] question (was ghosts of fruvous etc) [Maggie ] Re: question (was ghosts of fruvous, etc) ["Adam Hartfield" ] Re: What to play to a non-fruvophile? [SugarFly26@aol.com] Re: Midwestern Shows? [John Kelly ] Re: Ghosts of Fruvous; obsessions [SugarFly26@aol.com] Re: question (was ghosts of fruvous etc) [Melanie > My brother was obsessing over that (he's a big fan of Millionaire) and he's > all "...And the guy! He didn't know what a budgie was! Mom? What's a budgie?" > Me? I'm keeping my mouth shut thinking, "Is there some other budgie form > besides a dog?" of course. i used to have one. was the most adorable fancy parakeet :) his name was sapphire and he was the boomerang bird. if you held him in your hand and threw him, he'd fly out, turn around, and fly back to your hand. saphie rocked. i miss him. my cousin killed him. love, sheryljean, completely off topic, but what's the topic here again? some band? i dunno. what is music anyway? Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 11:12:25 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: What to play to a non-fruvophile? "Timothy P. McMackin" wrote: > > So here's my question: what song(s) would you use to intruduce someone > to the frutastic world? Why? I choose it by the person. If the person likes TMBG or Weird Al or oddities like that, Green Eggs & Ham or King of Spain or Kick in the Ass is a good intro. Get them to buy Bargainville and go from there. If the person likes the Beatles or Stevie Wonder or Bowie or whatnot, then I buy them Thornhill and usually play Half as Much, Earthquakes, and My Poor Generation for them and leave them to listen to it. They usually come back liking When She Talks and I excommunicate them from my friendship circle never to be heard from again. No wait... If the person likes Sarah Maclachlan and slower sadder songs, I actually play them songs from Wood like Doorstep and Misplaced but get them to buy Thornhill first. If the person likes songs that Fruvous covers, I play them the Fruvous version too as an intro to them and point out what wide influences Fruvus has. - Chad ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:30:54 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: Mostly OT: Budgies Richard Butterworth wrote: > What I was saying before I was so rudely interupted by triplets in 7/8 > with bass trills was that I have free will to do whatsoever I choose. I > could behave entirely irrationally and not send this ng post having type > it all out, just to prove my point. In fact I think I shan't. Only if I > do try to prove my point by lack of action then you will not not be aware > of that lack of action and therefore I wouldn't prove my point at all. BUT THAT'S JUST IT! What you view as a decision making process is utter crap, Richard. There isn't a process. There is a defined set of inputs and a defined output. Those gyrations that you choose to go through while coming to the output is just you trying to make yourself believe you have free will. But the output is set, so as much as you'd like to convince yourself you have free will while going from input to output, anyone else who had the same set of inputs would go to the exact same output as you had. So much for your vaunted "free will", buster. - Chad (which side of this discussion am I on?) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 12:49:42 -0400 From: Lori Martin Subject: Re: Ghosts of Fruvous; obsessions Chrissy wrote: > chad schrock wrote: > > "Chris K @*_*@" wrote: > > > "A.J. LoCicero" wrote: > > > > > > *snip* > > > > > > > Jian, I'll expect you for dinner on Sept. 3. Put it in > > > > your date book right now!!! > > > > > > *checks calendar* AJ, are you blowing me off for dinner on > > > September 3rd now? PPPFFFFBBBTTT!!! :p > > > > With you?!?!?!?! > > > > AJ, I blew off dinner with Murray to have dinner with you > on the 3rd! > > > You'd better pick who you want to have dinner with![1] > > Wait a minute, mister!!! Let me get this straight - I'm blowing off a > dinner with Dave-O to have dinner with AJ. However chad is cancelling a > dinner with Murray to have dinner with AJ and AJ is cancelling a dinner > with Jian to have a dinner with which one of us? Well I'm just serving notice now that I'm blowing off dinner with ALL of you, and Donna too, for a quiet evening of dinner and Wu-Tang with Murray. Everyone else might be fickle -- but *I* know opportunity when I see it. - -- Lori counting on Murr to cut up the veggies. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:24:06 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: Interesting article - "Syracuse New Times" Cara Kozack wrote: > Hmmmm, a very bitter sounding article. I can understand that people just may > not feel like being a fan of the band any more, I know once in a while I feel > like that. However the talk about it being a phase and growing out of it > sounds rather odd to me. Really? I think for a lot of people I know well that have gone through phases with this band. For the whole Fruhead phenomenom for many of us long time fans[1] there have been 3 phases as categorized by one Murray Foster, Toronto Canada. At first we went to shows because of the band. They were incredible. They created in front of us, something that was at the same time intimate and entertaining. AND they asked our opinions afterwards and listened to us and talked to us because they wanted to. After that phase, we went to shows and SAID it was about the band and to see the band, but we didn't care about King of Spain for the 100th time. We wanted to see Lowest Highest Point or Jenny under the Railroad Tracks or Semi-naked M. Foster Pounding Railroad Ties. But really we wanted to see the other Fruheads that lived far away from us and visit with them and see them in a context where we had things in common. The band was just an excuse to go to Philly to see Zard and Chris and Loren and Jason and Mary. Finally, after awhile, we didn't have to make excuses anymore. Screw the band, I want to see Andi and Laur and Heatherrr. That's why I'm in Toronto. I get to see some shows that I'll enjoy too, but what I'll treasure most isn't Way To Go Murray or Johny Saucep'n for the 150th time, it's getting eaten by the Eaton Centre with Andi for 2 hours until we finally figured out how to get out. Those are the phases I've been through myself over the past 3 years of enjoying Moxy Fruvous. There are other phases I've observed in people around me too. I personally know a couple people who went from obsessed with to someone who went for the music (and then coincidentally they went down the same 3 stages above before only going to shows where she lives). - Chad [1] Not passing judgement on newer fans. Just adding a length perspective to things ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:02:22 -0700 From: Maggie Subject: Re: What to play to a non-fruvophile? LOL i should try that! wow, sounds like fun. (i'm only a *mild* sadist, mind you ;) ~M~ "Fr˙fffffc - ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:17:53 -0700 From: Maggie Subject: Re: question (was ghosts of fruvous etc) i have an amendment to make here. in the fourth paragraph please replace "there are so many more" with "i have so many more thoughts." it sent before i could make the changes. thanks for listening to me. ~M~ "Fr˙fffffc - ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:16:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Rebekkah Kerner Subject: Re: What to play to a non-fruvophile? I think that Lazy Boy is a great introduction. Though truthfully, one probably needs to listen to a whole album (or 2 or 3...), to get a full experience. Perhaps buy them a CD (if you're feeling rich) or make a tape. And then lock them in the cellar until they've listened to the whole thing :-) My other top choices echo those already suggested: King, Fly, Horseshoes. But then I keep on thinking of so many other good ones. Perhaps I have a problem, too :-) - -Rebekkah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:55:17 GMT From: elisefru@my-deja.com Subject: Re: Interesting article - "Syracuse New Times" In article <39883D16.B9173D1C@fruvous.com>, Chad Maloney wrote: > > > At first we went to shows because of the band. > After that phase, we went to shows and SAID it was about the band > and to see the band, but we didn't care about King of Spain for > the 100th time. > > Finally, after awhile, we didn't have to make excuses anymore. > Screw the band, I want to see Andi and Laur and Heatherrr. yeah. well put, chad ;) I found myself thinking about the very same thing around canada day, when Jen Meyers even said "there was a show?" heck, the show was 40 minutes and i couldnt name a thing they played (well, ok. i admit, they played minnie and i was accidentally paying attention) but i had the MOST fun when we left, before we got there, and fooling around on the grass with several people i rarely see. i was discussing with AJ and a few other people (and he brought it up to Zard and Chris at FRFF) that if the band ever stops touring ever we shold make a fake tour schedule just so we'll all show up in the same cities once in a while. :) love, sheryljean. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 13:14:31 -0400 From: Lori Martin Subject: Re: Interesting article -- "Syracuse New Times" Cara wrote: > ksucy@nospam.eznet.net (Shilfiell) wrote in > <010820000538528897%ksucy@nospam.eznet.net>: > > > > Brought to my attention by a Syracuse denizen: > > > > http://newtimes.rway.com/2000/072600/music.shtml > > Hmmmm, a very bitter sounding article. I can understand that people just may > not feel like being a fan of the band any more, I know once in a while I feel > like that. However the talk about it being a phase and growing out of it > sounds rather odd to me. It almost sounds like it was set up, or maybe it's > just my warped mind twisting the facts. It sounds to me more like this reporter found (perhaps sought out?) some "fans" who prefer to think that they're above, or too cool for, those who admit to being Fruheads, and would rather put that part of being a fan down than admit they sorta kinda enjoy it. The alert for me came in the *double* reference to seeing Fruheads in Star Trek costume. I mean, come on. Granted, I haven't been to any shows in Syracuse, so maybe it's a local person. But I have NEVER seen anything like that at a Fruvous show, and to imply anything like that is standard concert attire for a Fruhead is just wrong. It's MST3K garb, dammit! ;) Seriously, so yeah as an aggregate we might be classified as geeky or dweeby rather than cool. And we generally don't bother posing as something we're not just to make coolness points, with each other or with the band. So what? Thankfully, most of us left obsessing about being cool back in high school where it belongs. (No offense to you high-schoolers; maybe you caught on sooner than the rest of us and left it in middle school. :) ) Point is: life's too short for that sh!t. And imho it's a mark of post-coolness to know that. - -- Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 17:08:49 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: Ghosts of Fruvous; obsessions RAI-- Random Access Insanity wrote: > > Maggie Said: > < not going to read.>> > > So I'm not the only one who picked this up? > Gella said a few posts back that she was leaving the newsgroup. I think it's > really sad when someone has to avoid something or other to be happy. And here > you all are, still bashing away at her and her beliefs. See Ellen's post about the dynamics of newsgroups. Threads trickle in for days do to lag. > So what if Jian doesn't consider Gella a friend and Gella considers him one? > So what if she said something that you found the need to criticize? She's > leaving in a month or so and decided to share her happy feelings of her last > concert. You picked out the one negative thing and all rampage on it. I'm sure > that made her feel so much better. That is NOT what happened at all. Some people criticized very narrowly the idea that a band member might owe someone the time of day. This became translated in some people's heads into an attack on Gella for sharing or on Gella for daring to love fruvous or whatever. It was never any of those things. Frankly it seems to me more that it is the people rushing to Gella's "Defense" (not that she really needs one since she wasn't nearly as attacked as you are insinuating) who are taking things out of context and focusing on one little point. > And if someone's > LEAVING in a month, don't criticize her! Gella's probably feeling awful right > now because people on the newsgroup, people that she's formed bonds with, have > suddenly turned against her. Oh come on! Gella hardly knows most of us. We arn't her best friends by a long shot, never the less I think most of us actually ARE sympathetic to her. We were commenting on a particular notion and not even necessarily pointing fingers at Gella. Personally I wish I knew Gella better she seems to be sweet and smart and thoughtful. I know I'm not the only one that feels that way. However to think that nobody on the NG should criticize anything Gella has said because she's leaving in a month for a wonderful trip to Europe (not prison as you make it sound) just strikes me as ridiculous. Criticizing something does not make me a meanine and it doesn't make me insensitive to Gella's feelings. I am neither of those things, and neither are the other people who post here. > When I read that first post from Gella, I suddenly felt sympathetic. I > guess, to me, it would be like me wanting to talk to my favourite teacher about > something and having him blowing me off. I mean, I might consider this teacher > a friend, but he might just consider me just another one of his students. That > doesn't mean that I can't feel sorry for myself. And that doesn't mean I don't > have the right to share my feelings with others. No it doesn't, but it also doesn't mean that you get to do so without any chance that someone might come along and say "get a life he's only your teacher!" > People are saying Gella was out of line for thinking that. Well I say that > she's not out of line for thinking anything. Nobody said that Gella was out of line for thinking anything. People mostly didn't even address the majority of Gella's post. What was said was a general notion that it is unhealthy to expect too much from band members, since they don't really owe one anything. > I think people were out of line by > going out of their way to break Gella's little one-moment-of-happiness-left > bubble. She's leaving in a month. She won't get to see Früvous again for > another year. Put yourself in her shoes, okay? Ok I'm sorry, I really really want to be ultra-sympathetic here, but the above is just so ridiculously melodramatic I just can't No reflection on Gella's actual feelings here at all, but your statement above is just asking to be paired with violins playing soulfully in a minor key! Gella deserves respect, sympathy, friendship etc. However to insinuate that people here are twirling their collective mustaches while they plot to destroy Poor Little Gella's "one-moment-of-(true)-happiness-left" before she goes off to become a prisoner in... Spain was it? is just... well... Laughable. Excuse me... ahahhahahhahahah! > I just want people here to respect each other and each other's feelings. I > just read something a few posts earlier about how no Fruhead this one person > ever met was an "asshole". It'd be nice if we could keep it that way. Ok, first of all, that is bullshit. There are certainly fruheads who are assholes, and I rather think we all know some of them. Fruheads do TEND to be remarkable fun people, but there are no guarantees. As for respecting others feelings I think we generally all do, but let's not confuse that with not stating our opinions just in order to protect fragile egos. That just ain't gonna happen on a newsgroup. Lovingly (fer real), A.J. - -- _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | ICQ: 13117113 \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com AIM: locicero ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 13:47:11 -0400 From: Donna Hunt Subject: Re: Ghosts of Fruvous; obsessions Lori Martin wrote: > Well I'm just serving notice now that I'm blowing off dinner with > ALL of you, and Donna too, OK, um... why don't I get to be part of the aggregate, here? Why are you specifically blowing *me* off? *sniff* >for a quiet evening of dinner and Wu-Tang with Murray. Well, start practicin', baby. That man is brutal. /me laughs ciao, donna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:12:42 -0700 From: Maggie Subject: question (was ghosts of fruvous etc) this question is posed to the, for lack of a better word, instigators of all this. there are two people i am thinking of in particular, but there are also a few others i'm sure. do any of you even KNOW Gella? or Sally? at all? i thought not. there are so many things i'd like to say right now, things about how criticisms, whether against an idea or an individual, have made Gella even more insecure about something that she's already insecure about. there are so many more. but i won't say them. Gella's a person, and i'm not going to talk about her as if she's not here. granted she could post something in defense [1] of herself, but as she's stated before, she won't. not for a long time. so i'll stop rambling and just remind everyone to please think, to please be considerate of others, and please, let's move on. 1. i'm not saying that everyone here is attacking her and her ideas, i know you collectively aren't. by "in defense" i simply mean speaking up for herself and not sitting passively by and being discussed. :) ~M~ "Fr˙fffffc - ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:45:53 -0400 From: "SASU" Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:32:19 -0400 From: "Adam Hartfield" Subject: Re: question (was ghosts of fruvous, etc) "Maggie" wrote in message > do any of you even KNOW Gella? or Sally? at all? > > i thought not. And your point is what, exactly? That criticism of an idea is somehow wrong if you don't know the person who posited it? I disagree. Criticism of an idea is a great tool which promotes learning and growth. Critical thinking is the foundation of modern society. > there are so many things i'd like to say right now, things about > how criticisms, whether against an idea or an individual, have > made Gella even more insecure about something that she's already > insecure about. there are so many more. but i won't say them. Good! Gella is a nice, sweet person whose company in IRC I enjoy. If she has something to say about how this discussion has affected her [1], I'm sure she can say it herself and doesn't need to be spoken for. Thank you for exercising your self-control. > so i'll stop rambling and just remind everyone to please think, > to please be considerate of others, and please, let's move on. This confuses me. It seems to imply that you think the questioning of an idea somehow equates inconsideration. To me, being considerate implies just the opposite - wanting to know more about why you think what you think instead of not questioning it and just hitting Delete. Thinking and asking questions indicates a level of interest and respect. See? We're doing just what you asked. - --Adam adamh@javanet.com [1] if it even has. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 13:05:29 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: question (was ghosts of fruvous etc) Maggie wrote: > > do any of you even KNOW Gella? or Sally? at all? Nope. I have no idea who Gella is other than the persona she presents herself as on this newsgroup. If given a choice between 4 people I don't know, I could not decide whether any of those 4 people are Gella. I also have no idea who Sally is at all. None. > i thought not. Oh, sorry. I guess your question that wanted answered that you took the time to make the subject of your post was a rhetorical one. Please excuse my answer above. - Chad ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 15:57:52 EDT From: SugarFly26@aol.com Subject: Re: What to play to a non-fruvophile? For my friends, I've tried different things. I played King of Spain for my friend Aaron a few times, and then when my best friend and I had another friend back out of a concert last minute, we took Aaron. I think he might be slowly converting, but alas he still loves Britney Spears and Backstreet Boys. ::sigh:: For my friend Sarah, who would look at me like I'm insane if I played King of Spain for her first, I did Half as Much and things from Thornhill that sound "band-like" and then worked to Bargainville for GWS, and then Live Noise Drinking Song. She's kinda getting into them I think. She did ask me to make her a tape..so now I gotta figure out what to put on it. Like someone said, I think it depends on the person. - ------------> Ln ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 14:47:49 -0500 From: John Kelly Subject: Re: Midwestern Shows? Mer Mer wrote: > > >Are there any plans in the near future for Moxy to venture back to the > >Occidental Midwest? > > > > > >John > > I suggest checking out www.fruvous.com . Currently I know they are > scheduled to play a show in Ohio (Oberlin, and i'm pretty excited!) and a > few in PA. But FDC (fruvous.com) is updated on a regular basis and if you > ever want to find out info on anything you might want to check there. > > Meredith > AKA reMer > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com I was hoping that the folks on the fruvous NG would have the up-and-up on fru-touring plans, perhaps even before FDC(which I do frequent) could post it. Plus, oftentimes, the Canadian factions of fruheads(speaking of which, I frequent FHDC as well) are a bit more connected than us midwesterners, too busy with our cattle and agriculture. The Canadian thing is not to be underestimated. Those people are like the mafia. It's like a secret club. If you're Canadian, you are privvy to more sensitive information than the imperialist yanks are. Seriously, though, if anyone hears any info about the boys venturing west of Cleveland again, please let me know. I will reward you with firearms and medicine. John - ------------------------------------------ In a world without walls, who needs windows? - ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 15:47:18 EDT From: SugarFly26@aol.com Subject: Re: Ghosts of Fruvous; obsessions <> No offense, and I'm not trying to start yet another fight here, but it seems like you missed the main point of Gella's post too. You also picked up on the littlest fragment -the blown off by Jian part - when through the whole thing she was mostly trying to tell us about how she's worried that her obsession is unhealthy. And somewhere in there said she's somewhat anticipating having to do without them for so long, to see how things work out and what happens and how she feels about it. I'm not saying that anyone should try to go out of their way to burst her happiness bubble or whatever, but I just don't understand why all of this is STILL going on and getting posted about. Her main point wasn't that she was getting blown off and felt slighted. Sally's post wasn't how she felt she didn't get something she deserved, even if it might have seemed that way at first. Can we drop this already? Or at least focus on seeing if there's anything we can do for Gella before she leaves. - -------------> Ln ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:17:18 -0400 From: Melanie Subject: Re: question (was ghosts of fruvous etc) Maggie wrote: >>do any of you even KNOW Gella? or Sally? at all? Actually, I am pleased to say that I DO know Gella. She let me use her juggling balls as we waited in line for the great millenial New Year's Eve concert. Gella, I bought some of my own, but I still can't juggle as well as you. Unfortunately, I don't know Sally, but I still think this IS a community and a damned fine one. So is ANYONE available to have dinner with ME on the 3rd? :-) melanie ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V4 #330 ********************************************