From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V4 #172 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Monday, April 3 2000 Volume 04 : Number 172 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [FAQ] alt.music.moxy-fruvous Frequently Asked Questions list (4/4) [Chad ] [FAQ] alt.music.moxy-fruvous Frequently Asked Questions list (3/4) [Chad ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:46:10 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: [FAQ] alt.music.moxy-fruvous Frequently Asked Questions list (4/4) [Begin part 4/4] Credits: Many thanks go out to Colleen Campbell, creator and initial maintainer of the alt.music.moxy-fruvous FAQ. Without her, this whole thing would never have been started. A ton of thanks to Jude Coombe for all her help over the years posting helpful official information to the newsgroup. Official involvement in alt.music.moxy-fruvous is really appreciated as it helps keep the denizens in line. Also, another myriad of "thank you"'s and "huzzahs" to Chris O'Malley, keeper of Fruvous Dot Com ( http://www.fruvous.com ) and all around excellent fellow. Thanks to Chris for having a space for the FAQ on FDC and updating it there for me. Thanks to Gordon Elgart for the information provided in Song and Lyrics Question #11. Thanks to Chris "Moz" Moesel for scanning in the Trivial Pursuit card for Fruvous Dot Com. Thanks to Rodney Elin for the information provided in Fruvous Characters Question #3. Thanks to Joe Navratil for sending the post that is archived in Appendix A and starting the acronym listing that has become Appendix C. Also thanks for contributing back info for Basic Info question #10. Thanks to Lori Martin for the AOL info from Fruvous Internet Resources question #3. Thanks to Jason Reiser for setting up the FAQ autoresponder. Helpful proofreaders without whom this FAQ would be full of "teh"s, usage of past tense instead of present tense, and other miscellaneous badness: Vika Zafrin, Jennifer Cenicola, Amanda Potter, Ken Perschke, Mary Krause, Jennifer Schlosser, Liza Q. Wirtz, Traci Poli, Jason Reiser, Andi Andrzejewski, Lori Martin, Melanie Barbarito, and Paul Mischler. Appendices Appendix A - An explanation of why age restricted venues exist and bands play at them This post was sent to the FAQ by Joe Navratil. He saved it off Footprints, a mailing list for Veritcal Horizon (VH), and it is reprinted here with permission. It has been cleaned up with regards to capitalization, spelling, and formatting. Content has not been changed. Subject: [footprints] age, clubs, and economics Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 13:53:21 -0400 From: Will Foy To: footprints@onelist.com From: Will Foy I know everyone's sick of this, but it's a frustrating thing for those who are under (and we were ALL underage at some point), so I wanted to say a few words about this. A warning: this is sorta long, but I want to kinda walk people through the steps of why. It doesn't make age restrictions feel any better, but it explains the why's. I'm going to be writing using my own personal experiences, some of which talking with promoters, club owners, bands, club staff, and my own fraternity's risk management position, which deals with some of the exact same laws and modes of thought. Your mileage may vary on some of the things I'm going to discuss, but by and large, these are industry norms. So, you're starting up a club. Cool deal! It's something I've entertained for a while myself, and may well do one day. You're a big music fan, and don't wanna rave club or something silly like that, so you go out, you book about 2 months worth of bands to play in advance. You, as your own promoter, want people to come out and see these bands that you enjoy as a fan, and pay you for the privilege of coming into your club to see them. This is called a cover charge, and we've all paid one probably at some point. You also want to make it affordable so the college kids (you did put your club in a college town didn't you?) can come and see them too! You make your default ticket price $5, which is reasonable, and it also works nice for the numbers. So, as you're building your club, you have the local fire marshall come out, inspect the club (you have to do this), and rate your capacity. He says you can hold 500 people in your new club. So, an interesting thing here... at your default rate, you can make only 2500 from the door. Keep that number in mind. Now, when you signed up the bands with their booking agents (people like PGA, who handles R.E.M., (e:), Sting, boatloads of other people, Red Light, Creative artists, and many times, the bands themselves), you signed a contract. This contract has LOTS of stuff in it, including for the moment, a couple of statements about fees for performance, etc. Most bands have a hybrid style contract. They'll get an amount that must be paid, period. This is called a guarantee. That amount ranges based on how well known the band is in that area, how much they have made and expect to make at repeat performances, and all kinds of other factors. It's made through negotiation. Let's say that you book a band, the Smokin' Mirrors, who aren't known real well in your area, and they ask for a $500 guarantee. That's reasonable you think, so you sign that part of the contract. Typically, bands will also ask for a percentage of the door take. This percentage may vary by club. Jack Straw's for example, does 100% of the door. Ziggy's does 80-band/20-club in most cases. Before you get to 80/20, you have to meet the guarantee, so it's usually 100% of the door upto the guarantee, then 80% of the rest. So, let's say you booked on a good night, lots of people came out, and you sold 250 tickets. That's 250 x 5 = 750. So, the band gets their 500 from the guarantee + 80% of 250, which is 200. They get 700 of that 750. Hmmm, you had a half-full club, which is pretty good most nights for an unknown band, and you make out with only 50 bucks. Hmmm... file that one away. Let's say that you booked them on a wednesday night, and it's midterms week at the Local University. So, you get 75 people. That's 75 x 5 = 375. You actually LOST 125 bucks, b/c you had to pay the rest of that $500 guarantee out of pocket. Most businesses I know of don't exist to lose money. Casinos might give out millions or even billions, but casinos aren't built on your winnings. They're built on the losses of countless people. Likewise, clubs don't exist just as music museums, they exist to make money. So, here are some choices facing a club owner: 1) Raise ALL ticket prices: aside from probably driving some people out the market, you do get the effect of raising your marginal rate, which makes you some more money, but is the increase in your marginal ticket price going to offset the downshift in demand? For tickets? Probably not, especially for MOST of the smaller, lesser known acts. Think people like the Disco Biscuits, Owsley, and VH early on in their career. VH loves to talk about how the first time they played Ziggy's there were 25 people there, and now they routinely sell out hours before the show (and sometimes days). They didn't get to that point overnight, as we all know, but it has some implications for club economics. Not the least of which is that currently, you could charge 10-15 for a VH ticket, but you couldn't do that when only 25 people show up. Doesn't work well. 2) So, using that example, you only raise ticket prices on BIG shows, hoping to raise your profit on BIG shows where you sell out the club's capacity, to offset the losses of lesser attended shows. Good idea, but a lot of the time, if a band knows it's going to sell the place out, it's going to raise the amount they want guaranteed. I don't think VH would be too happy with a $500 guarantee at a place they've sold out every time they've played for close to 2 years now. So, remembering that 2500 max figure, you HAVE to raise your ticket prices to cover the increase in guarantee in many cases. I.E. if after a few years of playing your club, the Smokin' Mirrors are doing well every night they play, they're going to ask for say, $2500 guaranteed. This is not astronomical by any stretch for a guarantee. So, you HAVE to sell out to make money at $5 a head. So, you raise the price to $10. that way, anything over halffull and you make a few bucks. 3) You could lower your prices, hoping to drive up demand for tickets. This may work for really really unknown bands to bring people who wouldn't pay 5 bucks, but would pay 3. You might make more, but there's no guaranty that people who wouldn't pay 5 bucks would pay at all, for an unknown band. These are the people who know two songs by artists we've loved for years. I'll use EMB (and I love EMB as band and people, just good folks) as an example. There are people who have seen them for years, dating back to their old drummer, pre-larry on guitar, pre-band even. These people know all the songs, probably trade tapes, etc. (they're like US!!!!), then there are those who know "Solitude", "I'll Be" and maybe "I Could Not Ask for More" and sing those till their throats pop, and that's it. Fine, they're fans too. That's ok. But they barely come out for bands they do know from radio play. Do you honestly think they'll come out for a band they've never heard of, ever, much less on radio? Tickets at 3 bucks or 5 bucks doesn't much matter. This strategy sometimes works, but you have to pick your spots. 4) You could "tax" merchandise sales. Bands hate this, but some venues do take a small chunk out of the merch sales, maybe 5 or 10 %. But, merch sales compared to tickets for MOST shows (not all), are probably going to be much less. You might make a few bucks here, but it's not worth the good will of the band to push this marginal club tax rate higher and higher to make more $ for the club. Not a good idea. A band I won't mention (not VH) RAILED against a college that had this in their contract for playing. They took 15% from merch sales, and the band hated it. raised all kinds of cain trying to fight it, but in the end, their management signed the contract, and it was binding. No choice. I doubt they'll play that college again, which is sad. You as a club owner, want them to WANT to come back and play, so this is a bad idea. 5) You could sell something else. Ah-ha!!! Here's a place where you can make some more money, and probably won't have anything in the contract you have to fork over to the band. Great! Now what'cha gonna sell? You could sell club t-shirts, yeah! That's it. Oh wait, if Joe and Jane Clubhopper buy a t-shirt a piece, they probly won't buy another one next week when they come to see another band at your club. What else could you sell? Hmmm, I got it! Let's make it a smoothie bar! You'll sell great fruit and vegetable shake concoctions. Only trouble is no one can stand the noise those damn blenders make. Hmmm. How about beer!? People will buy it over and over again, each time they come, and popping a top or twisting a cap is pretty quiet relative to the 110 dB's the PA is cranking out. Not to mention less costly and less messy as far as cleanup in the bar area. Now, here's where we get into some interesting business decisions. Ok, so you as a business have your standard liability insurance (your local Gap has liability insurance incase someone falls, breaks a hip and sues. Businesses have to have this to function and be licensed) doesn't cover sales of alcohol, b/c it's legally and liability wise risky. At least that's what their bean counters and actuaries tell them. So, if you wanna sell alcohol they tell you, you have to pay them much more in insurance fees. So there is an additional cost to even trying to generate more revenue. Likewise, if your primary audience is 21+, it's not a problem. But if you're in a college town, you're going to have some people 20- who wanna come too. Therein lies another problem: in most states (and this does vary from state to state, due to state insurance laws), if you have 20-'ers in your club, the marginal insurance rate can go up for those businesses. So they'll charge you EVEN MORE for the 18-20 year olds, and even more still for the 17-'ers, if they're even permitted to go inside the club. So, there are some ways around this increase in costs: 1) don't allow 20-'ers in 2) don't allow 17-'ers in 3) charge more for underagers (this is VERY common) 4) don't sell alcohol None of those options is great, and now you get a flavor for what's coming up for club owners. But, there's another wrinkle that makes this even more difficult. Your capacity, was what, 500 people? Given that everyone counts the same whether they're 50 or 5 years old, the more underagers in your club, the less product you are likely to sell, since you can't sell to those under 21. Thus, if you have a show in which you're going to have a bunch of teenagers, your bar is probably going to sell less beer, b/c they can't buy it. But moreover, they take the slot of an of-ager. Lemme repeat that. Every ticket you sell to someone under 21, takes a ticket away (potentially in a sellout of the show) from a 21+ person. Thus, from an economic, and not emotional sense, it's pretty easy to see why a club might be less willing to do shows for 20-'ers. In the case of a non-sellout show, it makes little difference, but if the show sells out, it's bad for business for underagers to be in the house. Jack Straw's for YEARS was a 21+ only club. At the age of 20, swearing away my firstborn, swearing on the honor code of my school (which at davidson, a violation can get you suspended for a semester, or kicked out. Happens not a lot, but when violations happen, it's A Bad Thing.), etc. It took Steve Van Dam and Randy Reed (lead guitarist and manager) of Everything to get me in that night. I had the club owner watching me like a hawk all night. We're now friends, and I think in that night, showed him that 18+ might not be a bad idea. However, it took some doing. I was allowed in, but if I tried to bring a friend with me, forget it. It was hassle city again. There are some ways around the loss of revenue from underagers. You can sell tickets at a higher price, which is very common. You can also have stuff other than alcohol to sell. Ziggy's now sells cokes and bottled spring water. This is helpful in the summer for everyone, b/c it's really damn hot in there sometimes without people, much less 800 or so writhing bodies dancing singing, and filling the club with hot air. These help some, but not a ton. That said, it's not easy, and ideally everyone would be able to attend, but it's sometimes legally difficult too. B/c most clubs don't sell food, they don't qualify as restaurants, which are subject to different alcohol control laws. For instance, any of us could probably walk into an olive garden (used b/c it's ubiquitous), sit down, and have a meal, enjoy a band or whatever if they had one. But, they sell food. in the eyes of The Man, they are very different from your local bar/club (Mama Kin's, Ziggy's, Alley Katz, the Bayou -rock in peace -, and The Muse , etc, etc, etc), which is subject to strict control, Alcohol Law Enforcement raids, stings, and repeated visits. They also have different laws period about control. In many states, alcohol must be kept in a separate area from where underagers may go. I.E. if you're 25, and having a beer, you can't be in the main part of the venue, but in a cardon'ed off area where only of agers can go. This makes some venues say, nope, we're not doing that, no 20-'ers then. It offends the people who are of age, and who pay their ticket prices too, and would drive them away from that venue. Also in many states, if the club sells liquor, people under 18 aren't allowed in, period. In NC, if the club sells liquor, you must be a member of the club, or a guest of a member to purchase it, and it must be kept in a separate area. Thus, Ziggy's created a membership program, for $5 lifetime membership, for which you get a monthly calendar, and a card, as well as access to the liquor bar, pool tables, and much cleaner bathrooms. it sucks mightily, but it's the law. Violation could mean shutting down the club, which would not be preferable to restrictions. Now, there are people you could blame as a fan, but the club owner isn't probably one of them. They're people who may not make a ton of money. They own a club, b/c they probably really love music, and while they make a profit, they're not turning into millionaires any time soon. keep in mind, they have to pay for power, insurance, water, facilities like bathrooms and repairs to items damaged by people who come in, plus, paying for sound, lighting, heating and cooling, etc, etc, etc... how does that get paid for? Cover charge, and bar. It's not a good thing for those of you who are underage, but the club owner isn't the guy you wanna blame. Blame your state lawmakers. Blame the federal restriction on alcohol to 21, if the state wants federal highway funds. Blame idiots who drink and drive when they could wait 5 minutes and call a cab, which brought the ire of MADD, SADD, and lawmakers to raise the drinking age. Blame the boneheads who are underage and try to drink. I heartily discourage you from buying fakes. Why? B/c it ends up hurting clubs, b/c if they get busted by ALE, b/c of you, their insurance goes up, they may have to close, etc. Not A Good Thing. Cabeesh? Instead, here are some ideas: 1) Lobby the band to force the club to do all ages shows. If the band, like VH, is well known, the club may cave. This happens. It takes some doing, but it happens. Jack Straw's was 21+, but was forced to be 16+ (not quite all ages), for a Jump, Little Children show, b/c they made it part of the contract, and wouldn't play without it. Email VH and other bands you love, to voice that you're 16 or 14, and you'd go to see them, even paying extra, to go to see them in your area, if they'd make the club do all ages. I'd bet they'll listen and try to make it happen. don't be mad if they can't. It may not be legally possible. It sucks. 2) Lobby your government to repeal 21+ alcohol laws, at least as they pertain to music clubs. Write your house rep, write your senators, write to your state house and senate people, write to the governor, and keep at it. You might not be 18, but if you can voice your opinion, it makes it well known that your vote for or against them hangs in the balance. 3) Lobby the club to do all ages shows, or 18+ for those shows. Suggest that you pay more to balance their costs. It might work. I lobbied Chandler at Jack Straw's for this, even after I was 21, so that people I knew could come to shows. 4) Beg and plead with the club staff. It sometimes works. Keep at it. Don't be angry, or violent, or hassle them. Be polite. It's your best weapon in this scenario. 5) Call the band ahead, and don't ask to be on the guest list (b/c they'll still check id), but ask them to put some sort of "responsible underager list" at the door. They might do it. Most of all, when you're out, and underage, be responsible. Don't drink. It's what started this mess for clubs and 18-20 year olds in the first place. If you wanna drink, do it somewhere else. I personally think it's no crime for an 18 year old who can be drafted, to drink a frosty cold beer. In fact, I think that laws should be corrected so that like my old roomie from Cyprus could, drink at 12 (basically old enough to see over the bar), and drive at 18 or 21. That would be vastly preferable. It's easier to take care of a body than it is to take care of a car and a body. Please whatever you do, don't drink and drive. Again, this is what made stupid inane, unfriendly laws happen. Take a cab, have a designated driver, get a ride with a friend. Your car will be fine, get it the next morning (just make sure you put your Club on the steering column) friends, take the keys. Club owners bend the rules sometimes, so being responsible will encourage that type of thing more often. Do I sound like an old fuddy duddy? Perhaps, but this is after close to 7 years of club experience, working the door, doing merch, hanging out with bartenders at far too late an hour, talking with owners, etc. They know what they're doing. Does it suck? You bet. Try some of the stuff I wrote above. It may make a difference. Appendix B - alt.music.moxy-fruvous Newsgroup Definitions and Etiquette Suggestions Contained herein are some general Usenet tips, suggestions, definitions, and recommendations that are tailored to alt.music.moxy-fruvous. Please read this section and bear in mind its contents when reading or posting to the newsgroup. There are many many newsgroup subscribers who get posts in various different ways and each person has their own likes and dislikes. alt.music.moxy-fruvous DOs and DON'Ts DO read the newsgroup for a week or two before posting. It helps you get a feel for the atmosphere, what people like to read and what they don't like to read and just generally gets you acclimated to your audience. DO read the FAQ. If it answers your questions, maybe you don't need to ask it again to the whole newsgroup just to get the same answer. DON'T post in all capital letters. On a.m.m-f this is considered shouting and is very rude. Use capitalized words sparingly and when you mean to stress something. DON'T POST IN ALL CAPITALS. DO quote a bit of the post you are responding to when replying so that people reading your reply get the context of your reply. Usenet can get some messages out of order, so your message needs to be self contained or some people may not get your point. DON'T quote the entire contents of the message you are replying to. Snip out the irrelevant parts and just quote what is necessary to get the idea of what you are replying to. Many people don't like to wade through 30 lines of quoting to get to 3 lines of response. DON'T leave the entire contents of the article you are replying to at the bottom of your post. Many people read the newsgroup in digest format and this makes the digest very hard to read. DON'T bring up the band members' personal lives. It is NOT an appropriate subject for the newsgroup. DON'T post to the entire newsgroup when a direct email to a specific newsgroup member would be more appropriate. If you want to get a band member a message, the newsgroup is NOT the place to post your message. DO use the "OT:" heading to mark Off-Topic subjects. Some people don't like to read non-Fruvous-related posts and just want album discussions, show reviews, tour dates, and the like. Using "OT:" in your headers marks off-topic posts so people can skip if they like. DO change the subject line if the thread has veered off to a different subject. Someone may not enjoy the original subject, but where you veer it off to may be something they'd like to read it. Many people choose which posts to read by the subject, so make the subject fit the body of your post. DO respect the other people in the newsgroup. There are people behind the text you are reading. Flaming someone publicly on the newsgroup is not a good thing. DON'T reply to troll posts. A troll in Usenet is defined as a person who makes an inflammatory post with no intent of starting meaningful conversation. The troll will usually sit back and watch the replies swarm in, including personal flame mail. This is exactly what the troll wants, so don't encourage them by giving it to them. Just let it be. DO limit the number of lines in your signature. An .sig over 5 lines is consider excessive by standard Usenet etiquette. Some people pay for bandwidth and having a 20 line signature at the end of each of your posts may seem like a good way of expressing who you are, it also is a waste of downloading for people who won't even read it. DON'T post binaries to the group. Binaries include pictures, soundfiles, etc. alt.music.moxy-fruvous is not a binaries group and many people do not want bandwidth hogging binaries to automatically come to them when they are trying to read the newsgroup. DON'T post with mime encryption or as HTML. Yes, you can be more fancy with HTML posts, but many people do not use HTML enabled newsreaders or email programs. They see your post as a lot of weird junk and probably won't bother reading it. DON'T post "me too" messages. Please DO participate in threads and add your ideas, opinions, and knowledge to the group discussion, but simply replying with a "me too" after someone's post (no matter how good it was) is an old Usenet faux pas and is frowned on by many people. If you want to agree with someone, please take the time to add some of your personal flavor to the message. It is hoped that the above list helps you get acclimated to the newsgroup more quickly and prevents you from looking foolish in some people's eyes with your first post. You don't have to have FDC memorized top to bottom to be a part of the newsgroup, but please try and follow some simple etiquette when posting and you will find the newsgroup a great resource for Fruvous information of all types. Appendix C - Common acronyms seen in alt.music.moxy-fruvous Fruvous fans are really a bunch of hippies and geeks, and with that many geeks you know there are gonna be acronyms from here to eternity. Here's a list of common abbreviations and acronyms seen on a.m.m-f. If you have any additions, please email ammf-faq@fruvous.com. Songs - ----- BJ "BJ Don't Cry" (from _Bargainville_) B&B "Bed & Breakfast" (from _Wood_) GE&H, GE+H "Green Eggs & Ham" (from the indie tape) GMIA "The Greatest Man In America" (from _The B Album_) GWS "The Gulf War Song" (from _Bargainville_) ID, ID4 "Independence Day" (from _Thornhill_) ILMB "I Love My Boss" (from _The B Album_) ITC "It's Too Cold" (from _Wood_) IWHO "I Will Hold On" (from _Thornhill_) KITA "Kick In The Ass" (from _You Will Go To The Moon_) KoS, KOS "King Of Spain" (from _Bargainville_) MBLABOA "My Baby Love A Bunch Of Authors" (from _Bargainville_) Michy "Michigan Militia" (from _You Will Go To The Moon_) MPG "My Poor Generation" (from _Thornhill_) PTT "The Present Tense Tureen" (from _Wood_) YCBTC "You Can't Be Too Careful" (From _Thornhill_) YNB "Your New Boyfriend" (from _You Will Go To The Moon_) YWGTTM The title track from _You Will Go To The Moon_ Usenet - ------ AFAIK As far as I know afmf alt.fan.moxy.fruvous, the evil stillborn twin of ammf ammf alt.music.moxy-fruvous BTW By the way FAQ Frequently asked questions list. FWIW For what it's worth FYI For your information IM[NS]HO In my (not so) humble opinion. Sometimes the 'H' is left out LOL Laughing out loud NG Newsgroup. In this case, ammf. OT Off-Topic. Not to be confused with On-Topic, which doesn't have an acronym ROFL Rolling on the floor laughing RTF Read the FAQ YMMV Your mileage may vary Groups - ------ BFF,BF5 Ben Folds Five BFF Bela Fleck and the Flecktones BNL Barenaked Ladies EFO Eddie From Ohio GBS Great Big Sea JBE Jim's Big Ego TMBG They Might Be Giants Venues - ------ BL The Bottom Line, in New York City IH The Iron Horse, in Northampton (NoHo), MA NoHo Northampton, MA, usually used as shorthand for the Iron Horse TLA The Theatre of the Living Arts, a great venue in downtown Philadelphia Tralf The Tralfamadore Cafe in downtown Buffalo Troc The Trocadero in Philly, a place Fruvous will (hopefully) never play again Fruvous Miscellania - ------------------- Bville _Bargainville_, the first album FDC Fruvous Dot Com, or http://www.fruvous.com FHDC Fruhead Dot Com, or http://www.fruhead.com FRFF Falcon Ridge Folk Festival, in Hillsdale NY F&FFC Fruvous & Friends For Choice, the pretty annual Fruvous benefit for the Ontario Coalition of Abortion Clinics LBC Larry Boniface Clebdon, the.. er, thing on the cover of _Bargainville_ LN _Live Noise_, the fourth full-length album and only live release MF Moxy Fruvous, Murray Foster, or Mike Ford. MFHQ Moxy Fruvous Headquarters in Toronto ON NYE New Years Eve TO Toronto, Ontario WTG, WTGM, WTGD Way To Go, Way To Go Murray, Way To Go Dave YWGTTM _You Will Go To The Moon_, the third full-length album [End part 4/4] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:46:07 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: [FAQ] alt.music.moxy-fruvous Frequently Asked Questions list (3/4) [Begin part 3/4] Section: Mike, Murray, Jian, and Dave 1) On stage, who is who? In standard position, the lads on stage are (from left to right): Murray, Jian, Mike, Dave. Murray wears the stylish shirts and usually is found playing the bass. Jian is the self-proclaimed (and born that way) "brown guy" with black curls usually behind the stand-up drum kit. Mike is the crazy Kirk Cameron looking guy usually found with a guitar. Lastly, Dave is the bald one with the accordion, banjo, or guitar. From their standard positions on stage, stage left (or left when you are standing on stage looking at the audience) has been deemed "Stage Dave" while stage right has been called "Stage Murray." People standing towards the middle can be "Stage Jian" and "Stage Mike." 2) Why is Jian's name written as Jean in liner notes and older articles? "Jian Ghomeshi" is the original spelling of his name. When his family moved to Canada in his youth, his mother changed it to "Jean," perhaps because it seemed easier to pronounce that way; but it's always been, officially, "Jian" (including on his driver's license), his friends have always known him as "Jian," and he's been spelling it "Jian" across the board for a good while now. 3) How do you pronounce Jian Ghomeshi? Jian's heritage is Persian (Iranian). It's not possible to exactly reproduce the phonetic sound of his name in English letters, but "ZHEE-on" comes closest (where that ZH is kinda like the Z sound from Zsa Zsa Gabor). Ghomeshi is pronounced like it's spelled - "go-MESH-ee." 4) Is Dave gay? bisexual? How about Murray? Jian? Mike? The matters of the band members' personal lives are NOT something for this FAQ to discuss. The band, being open-minded individuals, do bring up sexual preference occasionally on stage, usually through jokes that may be unsettling to members of the audience that aren't so comfortable with it. The other members of Moxy Fruvous frequently tease Dave onstage about proclivities other than strictly heterosexual. "Lee," from _You Will Go to the Moon_, is sung by Dave and can be interpreted to be voiced by a gay man to a lover dying of AIDS. Dave is usually nodded at by Jian during the word "gays" from the line "paranoid minorities, and gays" from "Greatest Man in America." Jian frequently dons a bright orange shirt proclaiming "I dig your boyfriend" for shows; he also alters lyrics, such as saying "I was looking straight" instead of "straight ahead" in "My Baby Loves a Bunch of Authors." Mike, during a break in "the Kid's Song" where he says "my sister has 3 gender biases" on _the B album_, sometimes says "she's trisexual" live. But the bottom line here is that it is none of your business. If you feel it is your business, take it up with the band members themselves and see what they have to say. It is inappropriate for the newsgroup to discuss such things. Section: The Albums 1)* What albums does Moxy Fruvous have out? Fruvous has 4 studio albums, 1 live album, an EP, and their self-produced cassette tape. o The indie tape, 1992 o _Bargainville_, 1993 (WEA CD 93134, Atlantic 82563-2) o _Wood_, 1995 (WEA CD 10616, BMG/VelVel/Bottom Line #47306) o _The B Album_, 1996 (WEA CD 14187, BMG/VelVel/Bottom Line #47307) o _You Will Go to the Moon_, 1997 (Bottom Line Records VEL 7301-2) o _Live Noise_, 1998 (BMG/VelVel/Bottom Line #47304, WEA CD23269) o _Thornhill_, 1999 (BMG/Razor & Tie #82849/Bottom Line) o _The C Album_, Coming in May 2000 See the Moxy Fruvous discography on Fruvous Dot Com at http://www.fruvous.com/discog.html 2)* Why aren't all the albums in stores? Where are they available? The indie tape is no longer in production; there were a limited number produced (something over 50,000), and you'll be lucky to get your mitts on a copy. Grubbing around in used music stores in Canada is your best bet. Begging and offering large amounts of money might work, but it's doubtful. You're more likely to find someone to copy the album for you, if you offer your firstborn child in return - or just ask nicely. A mint condition copy was also available as a prize offered for 2500 Frumiles. _Bargainville_, released by Warner, is widely available in Canada; in America, it was released in 1994 by Atlantic and is carried by many major music chains. _Wood_ was released by Warner in Canada and has been rereleased in the States by Bottom Line/VelVel/BMG. It is distributed by BMG, a major distributor, so any self-respecting CD store should be able to order it. _The B Album_ was originally self-promoted, but it was picked up by Warner in Canada and has been rereleased by Bottom Line/VelVel/BMG in the States. It is also distributed by BMG, so you should be able to get a copy in most any CD store. _You Will Go to the Moon_ was released by Warner in Canada. In America, it is the first release of fledgling independent label the Bottom Line Record Co. _Live Noise_, is the final Moxy Fruvous release on Warner Canada and released by Bottom Line in the Unites States. It is distributed by BMG and therefore is available in most major music chains. _Thornhill_ was released in the United States on August 10th, 1999 on Bottom Line/Razor & Tie/BMG. It was released in Canada on August 24th on True North Records, where the boys signed after their Warner Canada deal was up post-_Live Noise_. It is distributed by BMG, so it should be available or orderable anywhere you go. _The C Album_, a follow up to _B_ containing tracks that just would not have fit on _Thornhill_, is due out in May 2000. Right now, it will only be available through MFHQ and at shows. Info for ordering it will be included in the Spring 2000 Quill. 3) What if I can't get any of the albums at stores? Rule number one of "I can't find Fruvous records at my local record shop" is to ask at the desk. If they don't have the album you are looking for, ask them if they can order it. In the States, the Bottom Line-released albums are distributed by BMG, a major distributor. Because of this, they should be easily orderable by any music shop in the country. _Bargainville_ was released on Atlantic, so it had decent distribution, but it is rather old and may be a bit harder to order. In Canada, the Warner Canada albums should be easily orderable. Please, even if you don't want to buy the album because you'd rather get it another way, ask the stores to order Fruvous albums if they don't carry them. This will get the band noticed by the store and by distributors as well and get more copies of the CD into the stores where impulse buying may make new fans. If you cannot get the CDs the above way, you can order them off the Internet. Please use the links provided on FDC at http://www.fruvous.com/merchan.html to get to Amazon.com, CDnow.com, or any of the other various links to get to the internet chains. When you use these links, Fruvous Dot Com gets a small kickback from the chain which goes toward its operating expenses. CDs are also available at Fruvous live shows from the Merchandise table. If you can't find their albums in your area and Fruvous doesn't tour where you live, you can contact Moxy Fruvous Headquarters at moxy@passport.ca or write them at 1488 Queen Street West P.O. Box 90005 Toronto, Ontario Canada M6K 1M2 4) Does the band ever put out singles? Yes, the band has released singles for 9 different Fruvous songs. Most of these singles were promotional singles ( CDs with one track made for radio stations). They are sent out by the publicity people for the band to stations in the hopes of getting some airplay. Sometimes the stations give them away to employees who may give them to fans or sell them to used CD stores, so check around. Two singles from _Bargainville_, "My Baby Loves a Bunch of Authors" and "Stuck in the '90s", contained more than just the single track. They had additional bonus tracks that contained other material. The singles released by the band are: - - "King of Spain " - - "Stuck in the 90's" - - "My Baby Loves a Bunch of Authors" - - "Fell in Love" - - "Down From Above" - - "Fly" - - "Get in the Car" - - "I Will Hold On" - - "Splatter Splatter" Singles are hard to find and it is suggested that you snatch them right up if you see them. The band has also released 2 "sampler" tapes. After Bargainville, they had a Bargainville 3-song sampler tape that was used for promotion at shows. Before Wood was released, the band had a fan contest to "name the new album." All the people who submitted a response received a Wood Sampler tape. These 2 tapes are also very rare. 5) Does the band ever make videos? Yes, the band has made videos for 8 different Fruvous songs, the most recent being a video for the first single in Canada off of _Thornhill_, "I Will Hold On." Some of the early videos got good amounts of airplay on MuchMusic in Canada during the early-mid '90s, and "I Will Hold On" is getting airplay on Muchmore Music. A list of the videos that are out there: - - "King of Spain" - - "Stuck in the 90's" - - "My Baby Loves a Bunch of Authors" - - "Fell in Love" - - "Down From Above" - - "Fly" - - "Get in the Car" - - "I Will Hold On" A "Moxy Fruvous Video Collection" was the prize when you obtained 12 stamps on the old Fruhead Card (NOTE: Not the same as the Frumiles card). This collection was a tape containing all the above videos that were available at the time. There are two versions of the video collection. The most complete version contains all videos up to "Get in the Car", but for those fans who received their video collection before "Get in the Car" was released, their video collections have the videos up to "Fly." 6) Is there any connection between _You Will Go to the Moon_ and the children's book of the same name? Yes. Dave has said that he wrote the song as a bit of an homage to the book. It is not known if it's still in print, though. 7) What is the Indie Cassette I keep hearing about? Released in 1992, the indie cassette was the band's first released studio recording. As its name implies, it was independently made and sold at the band's show. The band sold out of the first run of tapes and had more printed up. Eventually the indie cassette, containing 6 songs from the days of Fruvous busking on the street: "BJ Don't Cry", "The Drinking Song", "King of Spain", "Gulf War Song", "Spiderman", and the only studio recording of "Green Eggs and Ham" ever to be released, went gold in Canada. 5 of the 6 songs from the indie cassette were rerecorded for the band's first major label full-studio album, _Bargainville_. 8) Where can I get the Indie Cassette? The indie cassette was a limited printing run and is no longer available. Many people have gotten indie tapes from browsing used record stores all across Canada, combined with extreme luck. A mint condition, unopened copy of the indie cassette was the prize for 2500 Frumiles. There have been people who attempt to sell indie cassettes (and sometimes even copies of the indie cassette) on the internet auctions sites like eBay. These auctions sometime fetch enormous amounts of money. At FruCon II, Jian stated that the band doesn't really like this reselling of original indie cassettes for very high prices. Reselling copies of the indie cassette is illegal and immoral. Please do not buy duplicates of the indie cassette and when considering purchasing an original indie cassette, realize the band gets no money from your sale, while all you get is a momento tape containing 6 songs that you can hear elsewhere for no money at all. There exist a couple copies of the indie cassette pressed onto CD (originals - not CDRs made from cassettes). A CD version of the indie cassette was the prize given for being the first to complete the Fruvous Crossword puzzle, and a couple of copies were raffled at Fruhead Conventions past. At the third Fruhead Convention held in Toronto in February 2000, the band set up a rare merchandise table where you could purchase the indie cassette on either CD or the original tape still in shrink wrap directly from the band. There was also an original tape, hand drawn by Mike Ford and containing material not on the released indie cassette available for sale. Many people who have opened originals are willing to duplicate their indie cassette to get it to fans who want to hear it. This is, of course, on the condition that no profit is made from the recording, and it is merely for the enjoyment of the fan. Section: Songs and Lyrics 1) Where can I get a copy of "Green Eggs and Ham"? A studio recording of "Green Eggs and Ham" is no longer available. It was the only one of the six tracks on the indie tape that was not rerecorded for _Bargainville_. It was also included as a hidden track on a three-song "sampler" tape Fruvous offered after _Bargainville_ was released. They will probably never record it again, though. Hearsay is that Dr. Seuss' will states that his material can only be used and licensed for educational purposes. Odds being against your finding the indie or sampler tape, your best bet is to ask someone to copy it for you. Fruvous frequently performs this at their live shows, usually segued from King of Spain into a shortened version of the song with the additional perk of Murray's bass line. The long version of the song is a special treat live, and usually includes some of the old costumes and banter from the original version of the song. 2) Where can I find the lyrics to "Johnny Saucep'n," "Your New Boyfriend," etc? http://www.fruvous.com/lyric.html is Fruvous Dot Com's lyrics section. It archives all the lyrics from all the albums, lyrics from many of the unreleased songs, and several versions of lyrics as they changed over time. FDC's lyrics are usually annotated with who is singing when, which comes in very handy sometimes. 3) Where can I get translations of the French songs? These pop up from time to time: several people have tried their hand and put the results on alt.music.moxy-fruvous. Fruvous Dot Com archives these with the other lyrics at http://www.fruvous.com/lyric.html. 4) Where can I find tabulature for Fruvous songs? Tab (usually guitar tab) for Moxy Fruvous songs is also kept on Fruvous Dot Com under the "Moxy's Music" section - - http://www.fruvous.com/music.html. Be aware that for the most part, these are people's individual interpretations, not from published music. This tab is available for not-for-profit uses and all song rights are owned by Moxy Fruvous. One of the prizes for the Frumiles card was a "campfire songbook," promising a collection of songs with complete lyrics and chords. Once you hit 1500 Frumiles, you will be able to tell us all what the lyrics and chords really are. These songbooks have not yet been distributed for people who traded in 15000 Frumiles. 5) Where can I find vocal sheet music for Fruvous songs? Fruvous Dot Com also has some vocal music and written out MIDI for some songs at http://www.fruvous.com/music.html. Sing Out! magazine also published the sheet music for Greatest Man in America in Fall of 1996. This is also available on FDC. 6) Where can I find sound files of Fruvous songs? FDC has sound samples under "Multi-Media." For links to other sound bytes, check out http://www.cdnow.com http://www.columbiahousecanada.com 7) Which band member wrote which songs? Do they collaborate? Each of the band members is a songwriter in his own right, and some of the songs are collaborations. It would take too long to list which songs were the product of whose minds, nor are all of the songs' authors known, and the band seems to like to keep that, among many other things, in doubt. A few examples, though, are that "Greatest Man in America" is a collaboration, "Fly" is Jian's, "Love Set Fire" is Murray's, "Down From Above" is Mike's, and "The Drinking Song," contrary to expectations, is Dave's. Many times it is assumed that the Frulad singing lead vocals is the primary writer of the song, but there are contradictions to this (for example the aforementioned Drinking Song). 8) What's the song that they perform with the refrain, "Hey little bird, fly away home"? Tom Waits' "Jockey Full of Bourbon." The original lyrics are on FDC. There's now a released version on _Live Noise_. Tom Waits original version is available on _Rain Dogs_. 9) Is it a female voice or Mike's voice during the intro to the studio version of "Green Eggs and Ham"? Prior to the second Fruhead Convention in Toronto ON in 1999, the band led on that it was not a male voice singing the intro scat to the indie cassette version of Green Eggs and Ham. During FruCon II, it was let slip that the voice on the recording was actually Mike Ford singing in a high voice, and the tape was sped up a bit to get the odd sound. 10) Who says "Swing it" on the studio version of "Gotta Get a Message to You"? Mike Ford's wife, Terri. 11) Is the "lowest highest point" really in Delaware? No, it turns out that even Fruvous is capable of spreading misinformation. Gordon Elgart provides the correct statistics and the explanation for us: "The lowest highest point is Florida, 345 feet in Walton County. The lowest _mean_ elevation is Delaware at 60 feet. The trivial pursuit card places Delaware at the lowest highest elevation of 60 feet. That is the mean elevation, thus the obvious error on the Trivial Pursuit card. The question should have said "Which U.S. state has the lowest mean elevation of 60 feet"? Horn Abbot was not famous for its editing ability." See the Trivial Pursuit card that started the madness and judge for yourself: Front: http://www.fruvous.com/miscpics/trivial1.gif Back: http://www.fruvous.com/miscpics/trivial2.gif 12) In "King of Spain," the King plays crokinole. What IS crokinole? Crokinole is a shuffleboard-style parlor game that was very popular around the turn of the 20th Century and still has a following in Canada today. For more information on Crokinole, see these pages: http://www.frontier.net/~crokinol http://www.crokinole.com 13) What songs that Moxy Fruvous regularly performs are actually covers? The band members of Moxy Fruvous are all music sponges and have taken in a lot of music over the years. Cover songs are an outlet to this. A "cover" is a when an artist or group performs a song written and performed by another band. Sometimes a cover song just fits really well or would be funny, other times covering the song is a tribute to the original's band and the song itself. Moxy Fruvous performs a good number of covers, some of which are leftover from the days when they didn't have enough material to fill a show or from even earlier when most of the band (all but Dave) were involved in a cover band called the Chia Pets. The following is a list of some of the covers done by the band and information about the original version: - - "Alison", Elvis Costello _My Aim is True_ - - "Ash Hash", Bob Snider - - "Believe", Cher - - "Brown Eyed Girl", Van Morrison - - "Early Morning Rain", Gordon Lightfoot - - "Homeward Bound", Simon and Garfunkel - - "I Shall Be Released", Bob Dylan - - "I've Gotta Get a Message to You", BeeGees - - "Jockey Full of Bourbon", Tom Waits _Rain Dogs_ - - "La Complainte Du Phoque En Alaska", Beau Dommage - - "He's Misstra Know-it-all", Stevie Wonder _Innervisions_ - - "Oliver's Army", Elvis Costello _Armed Forces_ - - "Peace of Mind", Boston - - "Poor Napoleon", Elvis Costello _Blood and Chocolate_ - - "Psycho Killer", Talking Heads _Stop Making Sense_ - - "Signed, Sealed, Delivered", Stevie Wonder - - "Substitute", The Who - - "This Boy", The Beatles - - "Walking Spanish", Tom Waits _Rain Dogs_ - - "You're Going to Lose that Girl", the Beatles The band also performs medleys of songs containing a lot of covers. Billie Jean Medley normally contains: - - "Billie Jean", Michael Jackson _Thriller_ - - "Lovefool", The Cardigans _First Band on the Moon_ - - "Rudi, a Message to You", Specials Dancing Queen Medley normally contains: - - "Walk on the Wild Side", Lou Reed _Sally Can't Dance_ - - "Dancing Queen", Abba - - "Angel of Harlem", U2 _Rattle and Hum_ Love Potion #9 normally contains: - - "Love Potion #9", the Coasters - - "Ohio", Crosby Stills Nash and Young - - "Stayin' Alive", BeeGees - - "Jungle Boogie", Kool and the Gang - - "Love Shack", B-52's Section: Fruvous Characters 1) Who is Larry Boniface Clebdon? Who is Barry? LBC, as he is sometimes known, is the "budgie dog" who appears on the front of _Bargainville_, among other places. Barry is the yellow budgie-dog-like creature on the back of _The B Album_, and elsewhere. They and their siblings are drawn by Mike and tend to appear randomly on albums and merchandise. 2) Who is Lazlo? Lazlo is John Shotwell, Fruvous' old soundman, with them through the end of 1996 and rejoining them briefly in the summer of '97. "Lazlo" is said to be either a nickname Fruvous gave him or his professional name. After John, Trevor joined the band for a few months in the spring and summer of '97, and Cal, who predates John, rejoined them after John's summer stint. Lazlo the Soundman is said NOT to be the Lazlo from "Lazlo's Career", and that that Lazlo is a sprite that follows the Frubus around. 3) What's a Laika? Laika was a dog that participated in the Soviet Space Program. Here's what Rodney Elin had to say about it: "The Laika of the song was the first dog in space. She was also the first animal in space. Laika's flight on Sputnik II, 3 Nov 1957, was primarily to see if animals would stay alive in space, or in Soviet space capsules, and to see if telemetry (remote monitoring of stuff like heartrate) worked after launch. Laika was 'left in space', to burn up in the atmosphere. There was never any plan or controversy in 1957: she was going up and she was going to burn up and die on reentry (6 days later). Once launched, there was not really a controversy. There was no return capability on Sputnik or any space vehicle. A picture, not for the squirmish, is available at http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/space_level2/laika.html As far as the song goes, Laika is held as one of the symbols ushering in the space age. (As are Sputnik, Yuri Gagarin, John Glenn and Neil Armstrong.)" 4) Who is Dusty Fosterbourd? Dusty Fosterbourd appears in the Fruvous Song "That's Any Good." He's a British Invasion Hero, who had one huge hit, "That's Any Good." He, along with the Dustettes - Skeet, Reg, and Stig - come out to sing their hit when they make their comebacks. He looks an awful lot like Murray Foster in real life. 5) Who is Grandpa Fruvous? Grandpa Fruvous is a rancid-smelling ancient being from before the dawn of time. He's had some great fun with many famous people (including many old US presidents, actors, and celebrities) usually driving around in all sorts of old-school cars like the Lincoln Biscayne or a Mercury trying to hit things with them. Grandpa wears a stylish hat and loves old-fashioned sing alongs. He performs "Minnie the Moocher" on stage with Fruvous, usually coming out for outdoor shows or special shows. If you can stand the smell long enough to get a good look at him, Grandpa Fruvous looks an awful lot like Mike Ford. 6) Who is Lou? Usually with his sleeves rolled up and his trusty blublockers on, Lou Reed sings with Moxy Fruvous on the Dancing Queen Medley. Introduced as the poet of New York and former leader of the Velvet Underground, Lou usually enters the stage to chants of "Lou." He also normally has some poetry prepared for the event. Under the blublockers, Lou has a striking resemblance to Mike Ford. 7) Who is Marion Fruvous Toronto's first environmental crusader, Marion Fruvous is a modern day folk hero. She pops up on stage with Moxy Fruvous, who may have in fact gotten their name from the environmental crusader, when they perform the "Ballad of Marion Fruvous." Marion's message encourages not only recycling, which many times simply fills landfills, but also encourages reducing the amount of waste you generate. Incredibly beautiful, Marion used to look a whole lot like David Hyde Pierce, but must have shaved her head at some point. She also seems to have grown some facial hair and has never appeared on stage at the same time as Dave Matheson for some odd reason. 8) Who is the Naive Young Chap? The Naive Young Chap is a character that has very rarely graced the stage alongside Moxy Fruvous, and yet is still one of the most beloved characters in their hearts. When he does appear on stage, he performs the song "Harbourmall" with Moxy Fruvous. Like David Bowie had the Thin White Duke, Aladdin Sane, and Ziggy Stardust, Moxy Fruvous has many characters, but none are as loveable as the Naive Young Chap. He's a guy from up north that just wants to go down and enjoy Toronto's harbourfront. His face shows just how naive he is. It also shows that he looks a bit like Dave Matheson. Section: Fruvous-Related Links and Information 1) What other bands might a fan of Fruvous be interested in? Early in their career, Fruvous was frequently compared with fellow Canadian indie band Barenaked Ladies: both are famed for excellent concerts, both topped the indie charts and then went on to sign large record deals, and both have varied and "quirky" musical styles. The two have diverged largely in the last few years, and few people think them very similar anymore; but many followers of one band enjoy music by the other. They Might Be Giants fans also have quite a bit of reciprocity with Fruvous fans. The question frequently comes up of whether Fruvous are TMBG fans; the answer is clearly "yes," as members of the band have been known to spout random TMBG lines and make up songs from TMBG tunes (particularly "Particle Man"). They joined forces with Da Vinci's Notebook ( http://www.davincisnotebook.com ) to cover "Shoehorn With Teeth" on DVN's album _Bendy's Law_. Fruheads tend to have diverse tastes, not easily pigeonholed; you'll catch a mention of Bela Fleck in one thread, XTC in another, Salamander Crossing here and Beethoven there. Other artists you might now and again hear discussion of on this newsgroup include - but obviously aren't limited to - Eddie From Ohio, a female-fronted quartet from Virginia, intelligent and unusual themes, strong harmonies, good use of harmonica and bass, and all out fun folk music; http://www.efohio.com Ben Folds Five, a piano/bass/percussion alterna-rock trio, a favorite of Murray and Jian; http://www.benfoldsfive.com Dan Bern, an incredible song-writer and an extremely wide-ranged, say what he's thinking folk artist; http://www.dbhq.com yeP!, a Massachusetts-based funk-rock/bluegrass/jazz band who have played with Fruvous before, now on extended hiatus; http://www.cs.umass.edu/~jg/yep.html The Nields, a Western Massachusetts five-piece band - due to new relations between members of the band, the previous clever comment here has been removed, but that doesn't change the great music this band puts out; http://www.nields.com Jim's Big Ego, a Boston punk-rap-acoustic-folk-satire caffeine-laced trio fronted by Jim Infantino; http://www.bigego.com Arrogant Worms, a popular Canadian acoustic humor band, silly and fun; http://www.cyberus.ca/~jeffmay/worms/worms.htm Great Big Sea, a Canadian pop-Celtic group, now breaking into the U.S. market and admired for their energy and Maritime themes; http://www.greatbigsea.com Tory Cassis, friend/co-writer with the band, a Canadian acoustic/swing artist whose debut album is released in Canada on True North; http://www.marykrause.com/tory Guster, 3 guys with a lot of pop talent, have played with Fruvous before; http://www.guster.com Susan Werner, a labelmate of Fruvous in the United States, plays a very rich folk sound; http://www.susanwerner.com Johny Vegas, a Syracuse NY-based, very solid pop group has played with Fruvous many times; http://www.johnyvegas.com Sarah Slean, a Toronto artist that has travelled with Fruvous a bit, plays mellow, beautiful, piano-based music sometimes with string backing; http://www.sarahslean.com The band admires the Beatles, Stevie Wonder and Elvis Costello; Jian has been known to plug the Talking Heads; Mike admires the Rheostatics; and Dave - well, Dave knows everything by everyone. This FAQ does not claim or attempt to address anything but the most basic of questions which you might have about Moxy Fruvous and the alt.music.moxy-fruvous newsgroup. There are also possible errors contained herein: if you know, or even suspect, that an answer given is wrong, please feel free to followup this post or email ammf-faq@fruvous.com. There are many excellent websites out there, FDC being only one, and you are encouraged to read there the history of the group; personal reviews of the concerts; articles on and interpretations of Fruvous's music, albums, and career; introductions and stories from other fans, and so on. Questions are welcome, posting is encouraged, and get out there and meet people at shows! [End part 3/4] ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V4 #172 ********************************************