From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V4 #110 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Saturday, February 26 2000 Volume 04 : Number 110 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Eek. This'll teach me to stop reading the group . . . ["Kate Leahy" >>>> [SugarFly26@aol.com] Chicago Night 1 Setlist [jimcclur@shrug.isdn.uiuc.edu (Jordan I. K. McClu] Frucon Weekend - another long and opinionated rebuttal [SnarkiFru ] Re: A suggestion to the Frucon Committee [cookie ] WHOA, ya'll! (Was: Re: FRUCON WEEKEND) [cookie ] Re: FRUCON WEEKEND, part 2...the other side of the story [cookie ] Life is unfair, get over it. [wahrend@my-deja.com] Re: FRUCON WEEKEND, part 2...the other side of the story [zardsnod@aol.co] Picture offer! [Paul Mischler ] The AMMF-Fruhead Civil War [Sally ] Quiet confessions from a Newbie [LilacGirl1002@aol.com] Re: Quiet confessions from a Newbie [vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin)] Re: Quiet confessions from a Newbie [=?iso-8859-1?q?kyla?= Subject: Eek. This'll teach me to stop reading the group . . . Hey there. Just wanted to make a brief comment. I went through my "every concert I could go to" phase for a while. I ditched mucho class last year to get to the 'Con and had a hell of a time. This year my wallet chained me to my bed, so I wasn't able to go. Wish I could have. Anyway, my point is this. There seems to be a lot of, like, "anti-Früheadism" or something going on. Like it's now some kind of derogatory term or something. Whatever hostility some people are experiencing from not going to enough shows or whatever is pathetic. I don't know where or who it's coming from, but it's a total shame. Also, if you're going to drive from a place like Virginia for two shows in Toronto and then write about drinking Jian's beer, you're a Frühead. Hate to break it to you, but it's true. I just read a post about a bunch of girls waiting for Jian to emerge from a bunch of girls to talk to them. I don't know where the elitist attitudes come from or why people feel the need to post about them on the newgroup, but this whole issue has made me realize why I stopped reading/posting to this thing. Actually, there was a whole separate issue that did that, but this has just reinforced my aggravation. Argh. - --Kate - -- Kate Leahy kleahy@loyola.edu katiewow@fruhead.com Drowning in understanding . . . - --Guster ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 03:23:34 GMT From: SugarFly26@aol.com Subject: <<<<< ** ignore sorta OTish **>>>>> sorry, didnt mean to send that. long story. - ----------> Ln ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 18:35:32 GMT From: jimcclur@shrug.isdn.uiuc.edu (Jordan I. K. McClure) Subject: Chicago Night 1 Setlist It was a fun show, even though the crowd was in quite a talkative mood. Here's the setlist: Down From Above Horseshoes Too Careful Fly Tureen Johnny Saucep'n Lazy Boy Pisco Bandito Independence Day Boo Time (special intro verse: Fingers snappin' People yappin' It's so funny You paid good money ) Disco Bargainville Speaking of Lacquer (improv) Splatter Splatter Hill Street Blues Theme (tease) Ash Hash I Will Hold On Poor Generation River Valley Get in the Car Your New Boyfriend Psycho Killer - -- Michigan Militia - -- Believe The Drinking Song jordan and drea - -- Jordan I. K. McClure (jordan@dumbness.org) http://www.dumbness.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 18:14:33 GMT From: SnarkiFru Subject: Frucon Weekend - another long and opinionated rebuttal Ahem, I cannot speak for the FruHead Convention Committee, nor as "moderator" of this newsgroup/mailing list. In fact, I can only (and not so humbly) speak for myself. I know that we put a lot of effort into developing an event where people from across the lands could converge for one weekend and not only share in the glory that is Fruvous, but also to begin and/or further develop unique friendships. I can't remember who said what, and quite frankly am too lazy to go back and hunt for the comments... but someone said that Frucon was a terrible experience for them because we all seemed to be in our little cliques and didn't seem very welcoming. That wasn't the intent of FruCon, but it is unfortunately the nature of the beast. We are an odd, unique and downright bizarre group, generally speaking. Most of our friendships are born online, and maybe as the result of frutripping we get to meet face to face. In my travels there are really only two times a year I get to see a large population of my fruhead friends and acquantances: FalconRidge Folk Festival and FruCon. There is so much to do in such a small amount of time. In Feb, we're so busy trying to rush to see the shows, participate in Frucon activities, and meet up with people we've been talking to online every nite or every week or what have-you. Its really difficult to do it all. There are the beginnings of discussions about extending FruCon Activities to two days, having official meet-n-greet style activities like a FruHead dinner or reception, or an extension of the Sunday AM Brunch... so that we have a chance to mingle and meet new people as well as reunite with long-distance friends. I for one didn't get a chance to spend nearly enough time with some of my dear FruFriends... there just weren't enough hours in the day, even with only 1.5 hrs of sleep Sat AM before the con. I was just too exhausted to party Sat nite, so I didnt' get to say hello or goodbye to people I'd been waiting all year to see. But I did make an effort to meet new people as well, there simply wasn't time. As far as the staff complaining about tipping. Lessee, there are a number of comments I have about that. 1st of all, there were a LOT of people there that were just turning 19, (or not 19, yeah... unders got in, i noticed that). They may not have been familiar with the bar scene and didn't know "proper tipping etiquette." 2nd, some people were a little strapped for cash and couldn't afford a tip after every single drink. Sometimes I'll wait til my last drink and tip then... or if its possible I'd prefer to run a tab on my credit card and square up then (which wasn't an option that weekend, unfortunately). I personally found it insulting for the wait staff to ask where people were from and then spit at them "Oh, they don't tip in xxxxx??" That's bullsh*t, especially when I'm standing at the bar, and the two chickies at the bar are deep in conversation about something, I'm waving a 5-spot at them, and one of them glances over the other's shoulder, looks at me with indifference, then goes back to her conversation. She didn't bother to come over to me until i walked over to the other side and got my drink from Tattoo dood. Sorry, but with treatment like that, she'll be lucky to get my spare change as a tip. As for this slowly developing flame war... i realize you are both/all three/all four entitled to your own opinion(s)... but a majority of your comments are becoming personal and therefore no longer belong in this public forum so please take it to email. Not only is it agitating to this "sometimes sensitive, sometimes bitchy" Fruhead, but quite frankly I subscribe in digest form and its a waste of time and MB's to try and skim through all of this... you're blowin my quota here...;} I've been a fan of fruvous since the summer of '97. I went through a phase where I had to be right up front, and see the guys after every show, and get signatures every time, and the whole nine yards (which refers to a traditional scottish kilt with all the pleatings and over the shoulder wrap, btw *smirk*). Maybe its because of my constant exposure to the guys, getting to be in the video and volunteering to help tote and load the van, becoming impromptu chauffeur on occasion, having a real friendship with persons associated with the band (and i'm not making this list to brag, please don't feel that I am). Most of you who know me know that I'll help out at the drop of a hat, at first it was simply to be near them... but now its more to help out Tobey so that they can all get back and get rest faster, and simply because I love helping out and making myself feel useful. Because of all of this (yes, there is a point to all that), I've found myself not quite as rabid about being up front or getting in line really early. I quite enjoyed all three Lee's concerts by the merch table, I had plenty of room to dance, it was well lit and I could see over those in front of me, and the bar was not far away. I think that in my state of exhaustion had I been in the Saturday crowd I would have seriously succombed to a panic attack. It doesn't make me any less a FruHead, nor do I consider myself any more a Fruhead... I just am. Everyone finds his or her own way to enjoy themselves and the experience, and just because you may not choose to do as this person or that person does does not justify belittling them or their actions. I recognize that as this group gets larger, tolerances for differences in behaviour, attitude, and beliefs are going to decrease sharply. There's been noise about not even bothering with a frucon next year (not from yours truly, of course). I said it during open mic, and I'll say it again... This is an event for fruheads, by fruheads, about fruheads... and run and sponsored by fruheads. We were there because of you. If we return next year, its because YOU (as a collective) want us to and still find reason and desire to do so. If the acceptance levels between folks continues to dissapate... where will that leave us in 12 months? Angie SnarkiFru on IRC LlYasmina on AIM "Grown-ups never understand anything for themselves, and it is tiresome for children to be always and forever explaining things to them." - -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery, _The Little Prince_ ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 04:28:12 GMT From: Rachel R Beck Subject: RE: frucon suggestion Koz wrote: Maybe I'm a bit sadistic, but there's something "homey" about freezing your butt off walking somewhere and then walking into a crowd of really friendly people when your cheeks and nose are all red. I have to agree. Reasons a winter series of concerts is better: 1. You can always put on more clothing. 2. Dancing is more fun and frenetic when you're trying to warm up. 3. People huddle together for warmth, facilitating the natural Fru-bonding process. Of course, I'm from Minnesota/Wisconsin/Buffalo. I'm biased. Happy day, Rachel ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:31:34 -0800 From: cookie Subject: Re: A suggestion to the Frucon Committee Marge wrote: > However, those who didn't grow up in the snowy climes (Rochester, NY > for me), or for those who live in cold-but-not-snowy areas, winter is just > one big pain in the butt. Also, those who live in cold AND snowy areas (and have to shovel a corner lot as well as deal with ice dams on their roof,) winter becomes such a pain in the butt that sometimes people relocate to somewhere warm and sunny for a few years! Soon to be working on year #3 in sunny California, and I haven't missed chipping ice off my car windows once! Cookie (OK. I've been kind of nostalgic about snow this winter, but only the early winter stuff, and the sloppy spring stuff. That mid-winter, ugly cold, icy stuff still gives me the eebie jeebies when I think about it.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:34:13 -0800 From: cookie Subject: WHOA, ya'll! (Was: Re: FRUCON WEEKEND) tmbgirl@my-deja.com wrote: > > And maybe people shouldn't be so > > thin skinned about it, but think about the Fruheads. > > Think about who we are. > > Fruheads tend to be very sensitive people, many of whom have a lot of > > trauma in their lives both past and current. > > what is this pity points? Life is Suffering, babe. Ha Ha! Boy, did this make me laugh! I have to agree with Jordan. The world doesn't revolve around any individual or group (although I usually think it revolves around me, and I don't understand why everyone doesn't realize that.) Sensitivity is NOT the same as co-dependency or self-pity, and I think giving Fruheads special consideration because they're "more sensitive" and have been through a "lot of trauma" to be completely self-absorbed and, well, whiny. If you feel someone cheated you out of a coveted spot at the front of the bar, and that is the worst of your worries, consider yourselves extremely fortunate. I work daily with people who have physical and developmental disabilities, and trust me, we are all extremely lucky to have the advantages we do. To quote Jordan: "Suck it up." > > For some people in this community, Fruvous > > and the Fruhead community are a precious link to a world without pain > > i give you props. i'm sorry if i brought you back to your other > reality and hurt you by walking into the club early. This also cracked me up! Granted, I didn't witness this situation first-hand, but just from this discussion, it seems the only point of contention was Jordan choosing to walk into a public establishment. It doesn't sound like she bribed her way in, or snuck in the backdoor, or broke any venue rule or city law, so tell me how on earth Jordan's actions could have even been *noticed* by anyone, let alone caused all this suffering? Hell, if I didn't know people could just walk in, and someone did it before me, I'd jump on the bandwagon and be right on their tail! (By the way, my friends would be OK with me taking care of myself--even if they didn't want to go inside with me at that moment.) > > If you don't care about what you do to other people in this > > world, I can't make you. Maybe you didn't realize and I should take > > it easy on you. <> > > Just please, notice how your actions affect others. Just what did Jordan do to *you?* It sounds to me like she and her friends went to a show and entered a venue, while you and your friends chose to stay outside for a while longer. Whatever's causing all this hubbub still isn't very clear to me. > [1]go ahead, i'm ready for all of you to tell me how i'm wrong. > because i want to know. i don't want to misunderstand any of you and > if that's what i'm doing - please put me in my place. Considering the information I have on this topic (which is only the posts from the past couple of days,) I honestly can't give you an argument. I'm sorry to disappoint you, Jordan, but I think you're right about this situation. :-) Looking forward to hearing the rebuttals. Cookie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:46:21 -0800 From: cookie Subject: Re: FRUCON WEEKEND, part 2...the other side of the story Spin0za1 wrote: > Yes, life is pain. I've experienced that firsthand. But in dealing with pain > you can take one of two things from it... Stop caring about people because they > don't care about you and just survive... or care about people more because > they're suffering too and you know what it's like and want to make it better. Boy, I'm hoping you're suggesting people pick the former! Selecting the latter is terribly self-destructing. Why on earth would you want to waste energy on someone who doesn't care about you? I feel the people who love me are much more deserving of my time and attention. I'd also like to add a third option: Stop caring about the people who are hurting you, and find new people who sincerely care about you and your needs, and would do anything they could to NOT hurt you. Those are the people who deserve your heart. Please don't get me wrong. I know how hard it is to cut bait and run (especially when it comes to emotional ties,) but unfortunately, there will be times in your life when you'll have no choice but to let someone you really love go...forever. It totally sucks the big one, but to do anything else is emotional suicide. Cookie Hoping ya'll get over this whole thing soon. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 20:56:43 GMT From: rob@knautz.com (Rob Knautz) Subject: Re: Chicago Night 1 Setlist In article , jimcclur@shrug.isdn.uiuc.edu (Jordan I. K. McClure) wrote: > >It was a fun show, even though the crowd was in quite >a talkative mood. Here's the setlist: Everytime I have seen them at Martyrs the crowd was very talkative, I don't remember any of the other Chicago shows being like that. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:17:38 GMT From: MC Subject: Someone died and handed me a soapbox It takes talent to rub an entire newsgroup the wrong way. Heh. I suggest that in the future you or anyone else refrain from using language or phrasing that is demeaning to any fan of this band, whether considered "Fruhead" or not. You (the general you) can be bitchy all you want in the comfort of your own inbox, but to broadcast these kinds of opinions on a public forum is inconsiderate and frankly inappropriate. There is no reason to post such comments, and provoking this kind of understandably bitter response. If you think less of certain groups of people, well good for you, you must feel very good about yourself. But keep in mind that this newsgroup being a kind of community, you are expected to behave accordingly and respect the posting/lurking people who might be hurt by your comments. I understand that you (Amy and whoever else, I couldn't read the whole thing) did not post this with the direct intention of dissing anyone actively, but the fact remains that you did. I don't think anyone at this point expects an apology, and you're probably not in the mood to give one, but these things had to be said -- again; this seems to be a recurring phenomenon year after year. FruCon III was a success and was by far the best one yet. FruCon I remains very special to all those lucky enough to attend it, but this year's convention achieved better and greater goals, and will likely continue to do so in the future. Many, MANY people came up to/emailed the Committee with praises and thanks. The band loved it, and sensed more contact between themselves and the audience. It was obvious to many including them that this year was more relaxed and felt more comfortable. Re: cliques. This matter has been milked for all it was worth. Many might confuse groups of friends with cliques. Please get over it. There's nothing more to it than this. Lee's. The waiters have a shit job, but hey, they're not the only ones. Yes tipping is usually expected, but it remains a prerogative. If they don't realize that by being condescending to their customers they won't be getting tips anytime soon, well that's their own friggin' fault. Bar staffs at music venues have been known to be especially rude, there's nothing new there. Sadly some of them have absolutely no concept of what customer service should be. I've had a talk with the promoter who, while he admits being startled by Fruvous' fans and their off-the-wall habits, did not by any means put them down. Do tip if you can, especially if you did have a good waiter/waitress, but no one has to be talked down by a venue employee. Who died and put me in charge, eh? :) There is just no completely diplomatic way of saying this. Bottom line is this. If you need to vent your dislike of certain Fruvous-related people, please do it elsewhere. It is not appreciated, even by people who have nothing to do with this. This is not what this group is about, and by now you should know and respect this. Thank you. - -- Marie-Claude Danis @ Hill Haus Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:36:36 GMT From: wahrend@my-deja.com Subject: Life is unfair, get over it. I've only briefly looked at this flame war and it bothered me a little as it did many other people, probably because it became so personal, so quickly. typically it takes a few rounds before you get into name calling. I have a few points to add.... People cut in line. It happens all the time. In fru-shows and otherwise. I don't do it, many others don't either, some do. Thats life, life is unfair, get over it. The bar staff was especially rude even for a concert venue. You don't get tips by insulting your customers. Some people don't tip on every drink, some people don't tip at all. They should be used it and if they're not, well, guess what.... Thats life, life is unfair, they'll get over it. People were hanging out with their friends at Frucon. It seemed closed to some people. I don't really know why since everyone was pretty friendly and open. But if you're new to a group or whatnot, there might be difficulty on upswing meeting people. It happens with almost every group, you tend to hang out with those you are most friendly with which may exclude you from others. And well.. its only natural.. Thats life and that too is unfair and people should get over it. I know the majority of the people in this group really care about the concert experience. I for one typically stand in the back because I know that if I stand up front I'm going to end up blocking someone's view. Others do similar things, others push their way to the front no matter how late they came to the show. It happens. Its life and that is unfair, get over it. Not everyone is going to have a great time.. not everyone is going to be able to stand in the front row or get pulled on stage or drink out of magical cup of beer. Not everyone is going to tip, not everyone is going come in for a glass of beer before the show, some are going to stand outside for hours, some are going to get turned away at the door. But that is life. Life is unfair. get over it. If you (the general you) don't particularly like what I have to say, please by all means, send me email as I only read this group once a month to remind myself why I don't read it anymore. "wild" Bill Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2000 23:41:52 GMT From: zardsnod@aol.com (ZardSnod) Subject: Re: FRUCON WEEKEND, part 2...the other side of the story Jordan wrote: > i could go on with this HS comparison but i think i'll >just unintentionally start hurting people's feelings and that's so not >what this post is about. No, it seems to be about INTENTIONALLY hurting people's feelings... I was sad to see this rant on this usually nice and friendly list - -Zard From a contest in the Wash. Post Style Invitational: "Rene Decartes Before the Horse - I am, therefore I think" - Bob Dalton, TX ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 20:36:13 -0500 From: Paul Mischler Subject: Picture offer! Okay people, I've finally gotten caught up on pictures from MANY frushow. So here's how I'm going to make them available this time... Go to my website: http://misch.rh.rit.edu/ Click on the File Server button at the left. The rest should be pretty apparent. _PLEASE_ download only 1 file at a time!!! Don't abuse the server! Shows up now: Philadelphia Washington DC (coming soon) Rochester 11/24 Albany 12/4 Buffalo - 12/31 Buffalo - 1/1 Toronto - Lee's Palace 2/18 Toronto - Lee's Palace 2/19 Enjoy! - -Paul Mischler ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 02:12:43 GMT From: Sally Subject: The AMMF-Fruhead Civil War ....................................................................... I'm going to serve a little dish of something that might take some of the heaviness away before I get even closer to ending my reading the NG. Tonight, after getting a bit sick of reading up on each and every post/battle review of this Fruhead civil war, I went browsing and found a site which had to deal with arguments on newsgroups. It made me laugh and I thought we could all use a little bit of that. http://www.brunching.com/features/feature-argueusenet.html How do you think the Fruboys would feel if and when any of them go to catch up on the NG and see all these posts and sense the feelings of Anti-Fruheadness? Someone or more than one person said it earlier, this is not why the ng was established. That said, can the troops please retreat now or find another place to do battle? This issue got way more personal and involved to be displayed on such a widely shared venue. Though it's never a bad thing to work through problems cause people must work certain things out, can the troops take this war someplace else? If something substantial comes out of these peace talks then by all means, feel free to share it with us, but what is there to accomplish by actively spreading these mutual feelings of anger and resentment? I'm off. Again, please lighten up. I hate that I felt it necessary to post this. But check out that link. I hope it makes a little difference. *sally* Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 02:05:37 GMT From: LilacGirl1002@aol.com Subject: Quiet confessions from a Newbie Ok, now I'm so confused about exactly what is going on and I find that I simply don't care. The way I was taught was if you have a problem with someone you tell them what is wrong. However, I agree with the people who say that the NG is NOT the place for it. I had never been to a Fruvous concert before Thursday night in Lafayette and I simply can't imagine what in the hell you could possibly be complaining about. I had the most amazing time, the other fans were great, the band was great, and my wonderful father was great for driving Erica and I there. I didn't really talk to any one besides Tobey because I'm an introverted kind of person and he seemed to draw me out. But I never thought anyone there was being snobby even though you could tell the people who had been to many concerts. Everyone seemed so polite and gracious that when I left I wanted nothing more out of the experience. How many times in your life can you really say that? I realize that some people may not consider me a FruHead because I've only been one concert and have only heard of Moxy Fruvous since October, but I consider myself one, and I would fight to the death to remain calling myself one. I think rather than being an exclusive group of individual fans it's more of an inclusive group of fans for a band that obviously means so much to each person for whatever reason. Anyone who is reading this is reading for their own reasons and many times these reasons cannot be articulated into words. Conclusion and Plea: So please the next concert you go to, please be considerate of the people around you. Whether you know them or not, whether you like them or not, because we all share the same space and while we can't make everyone else's experiences perfect, we can at least try to make them better by not being rude or pissing them off. Betsy, the somewhat saddened Newbie. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 02:48:04 GMT From: vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Quiet confessions from a Newbie Spake LilacGirl1002@aol.com: >I realize that some people may not consider me a FruHead because I've only >been one concert and have only heard of Moxy Fruvous since October, You are a fan of Mopey FruitLoops, non? That makes you a Fruhead. :) >but I >consider myself one, and I would fight to the death to remain calling myself >one. You go girl. Except for the death part. >Betsy, the somewhat saddened Newbie. Newbie? Aren't you the same LilacGirl from, like, a year ago? Or am I mixing up my Lilacs? In any case, hi! - -v - -------- Vika Zafrin -------- vika@attglobal.net -------- http://www.brown.edu/Research/Decameron "When did _you_ embrace quintessential levitation?" -a Guy in my dream ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 03:05:37 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?kyla?= Subject: Re: Quiet confessions from a Newbie Re: Quiet confessions from a Newbie - --- LilacGirl1002@aol.com wrote: > I realize that some people may not consider me a FruHead because I've > only > been one concert and have only heard of Moxy Fruvous since October, > but I > consider myself one, and I would fight to the death to remain calling > myself > one. I think rather than being an exclusive group of individual fans > it's > more of an inclusive group of fans for a band that obviously means so > much to > each person for whatever reason. Anyone who is reading this is > reading for > their own reasons and many times these reasons cannot be articulated > into > words. I totally agree with Betsy about how going to Früvous concerts should NOT be the criteria for "becoming a fruhead." I hadn't been to a Früvous concert until last June, although I had been a fan ever since Bargainville came out, thanks to my father. Being a fruhead is special to so many people and that's why we all are part of this NG, to discuss the band and get to know each other. So why can't we just get along? - --kyla ===== AIM: canadan2 ICQ: 37135028 ?:^) marion sez: hi everyone! we miss u cedric! if i said you were crazy, would you have to fight me? - -moxy früvous, gulf war song __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V4 #110 ********************************************