From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #996 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Saturday, December 4 1999 Volume 03 : Number 996 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Ottawa Citizen article, Nov. 25, 1999 [hugrod@home.com (Hugo Rodrigues)] NY ticket - tonight ["Anna!" ] re: tangents (was re: rant ... post d.c. show) [Srm9988n@aol.com] Re: "sports" [spencer@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Stephen Noel Spencer)] re: tangents (was re: rant ... post d.c. show) [Katrin@optelnow.net (Ka] Re: FRUHEADS! UNITE AND...umm... ["Myla Fantastik" ] Re: Collingswoodin'. . . Hey there puddin'. . . [McCown ] Re: FRUHEADS! UNITE AND...umm... [cassiel104@aol.com (Cassiel104)] A Fruvous Show is like sex.... ["Daancing Queen" Subject: NY ticket - tonight hey all, i just decided to go to the show tonight, but am going to buy a ticket when i get there. the club was pretty confindent that there would still be tickets left when i arrived, but in case there aren't ... if anybody needs to *sell* a ticket for tonight, i will be outside panicking :) just yell "Anna! Girl with no ticket! Yoo hoo!" and I will hear you and come running. merci! (and huzzah for last minute decisions!) - -anna- "Won't you tell me why, the beautiful ones are always crazy?" --sparklehorse ~* http://elements.dreamhost.com *~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 03:00:44 GMT From: Srm9988n@aol.com Subject: re: tangents (was re: rant ... post d.c. show) Vincent, my espresso-bean-chomping Celine-Dion-loving pal, said, among other things: > wow. i really know what you two mean, when it comes to feeling >out of place. when do we finally fit in? > >> Wow, someone else has a sister like that too. > > i have similar feelings. while i didn't get berated from a >sibling, i used to get that from my father, all the time. i was a >constant embarrassment. i'm out in the world, walking around with his >last name (i was adopted, so i sure wasn't worthy of being named after >him.), constantly bringing disrespect to the family name. this does >wonders for a child's self-esteem, let me tell you. > >> > At Fruvous concerts I sing and I dance and I sometimes make an ass of >> > myself and feel awful later... but for that moment I'm free. I can >> > fly. I'm myself and it's okay. Okay, a response to this and some other recent amm-f/Fruhead-community bad vibes has been rattling around in my head for awhile, so here goes. One thing I have learned, as a Fruhead, is that there is an awful lot of pain out there in the Fruvous community. I'm not sure there's really any more bad experience here proportionally than there is in the rest of the world, but many Fruheads do seem to be very open about acknowledging the effects their darker experiences have had on them -- unlike most of the other people in *my* life, at least. I believe that it's precisely because of that high degree of openness and honesty about where we've been and who we are -- the lack of posing and pretension and being cooler-than-thou -- that others feel welcome, and safe, and that they've found a place of release at amm-f and at Fruvous concerts. A place where, in Vincent's words, we all feel that we can be ourselves, and it's okay. And that's why we can have so much fun. With that in mind, I'd just like to ask that we all try to go a little gentle on one another. A lot of us have long felt like dorks, geeks, misfits, whatever semi-contemptuous term we care to apply. And I think a lot of us still feel that way, feel that few people really "get" us, or want to, at least outside this community. Others may never have felt like social outcasts, but that doesn't mean their lives have been perfect by any means. Most of us have *issues*. (Of course, *most* people have issues -- the difference is that more Fruheads seem to acknowledge theirs.) The question, I feel, is can we also acknowledge that others may have issues -- and that whether we know of those issues or not, can we bring ourselves to *not* assume a great deal about *anyone* based on the way they *act* at a show. The bottom line is, although as a group we by and large enjoy each other's company, most of us do not know all that much about each other personally. So let's be aware of that -- especially of the newcomers, but also regarding those who we've met before -- and not dismiss them based on some preconception: the way they dance, or dress, or choose to socialize or not. If we haven't talked to them extensively as individuals, if they're cool people from the newsgroup, but not our personal friends, then face it -- we have no idea what their reasons are. And judging them as a person based on concert behavior is being as unfair to them as anyone who ever judged us on our high-school coolness (for example) was to us. > spin0za, that comment just brought tears to my eyes. when fruvous >is playing, their music transports me to a place where i don't feel >self-conscious, at all. i'm just like everybody else, no better or no >worse. i actually feel human at fruvous shows, instead of feeling like >some wretched creature, one of the botched and bungled. These words made ME want to cry. While amm-f is not a support group, there is a dynamic of confidence at play here, which Vincent articulated, that I think holds true for a lot of us. We feel free of constraint at concerts and among our Fruhead friends; they know who we are, and like us as we are, even *because* that's who we are. Warts and peculiarities and issues and weird enthusiasms and all. But, if in the name of concert "decorum" or "etiquette" we start attacking not just specific behaviors that others may not realize are irritating to the rest of an audience, but the individuals who may not realize they're acting badly (in our *humble* opinion ;) ) we're stamping out that joy of self-expression for them. We're making them self-conscious at the one event I think most of us would concur we do NOT feel self-conscious at, and depriving them of the same confidence in humanity, connection with others, not being botched and bungled or whatever term may apply, that many of us will gladly travel a thousand miles to feel. >> I've often thought that there's no better feeling than knowing your not >> just a spectator at a show but a participant, surrounded by others who >> understand and feel the same way, not having to explain yourself. And >> there's no worse feeling than coming down after a show, wondering if >> you've committed a terrible faux pas of overstepped some unspoken >> boundary. >starts as early as walking out of the venue, for me. i've awaken and >thought, "now, what did do to step on someone's toes?" this past weekend, >while many people were having fun in rochester/montreal/ottawa, i was >home, thinking, "nobody wanted me in their plans for this weekend. am i >really that annoying?" i also thought about writing an open letter to >ammf, and apologizing for any trangressions i may have committed. i >seriously thought about disappearing from the fruhead community, giving up >going to shows, altogether, just so i wouldn't pi$$ yet another person >off. Can I ask that, if *any* of us feels this way, we really try to talk to each other -- not on amm-f, that's too public a forum for what should be a private conversation between two or a few people, but on private email perhaps, or on the telephone. (Strange notion, that.) Vincent, I'm sure you have some specific people in mind in this last paragraph; I also am fairly certain that it's not the majority of amm-f, and that it's really none of our business. ;) But I have seen too many people hurt, afraid to act, not speaking to each other, because they're *afraid* they've offended -- or alternately because they've pushed a button they never knew the other person had, and were astonished and appalled at the reaction it got. Sure, that button-pushing hurts, and it's likely the other person will lash out in return out of that hurt. But I don't think very many people intentionally look to cause that kind of pain. It's clumsiness, not mean-spiritedness. Especially here. I really don't think there's all that many categorical bad guys on amm-f. ;) But there are lots of people I like here who seem to have issues with each other, and that makes me sad because I think they're all good people. With quirks, yes. ;) But good people. >> > Moxy doesn't owe my anything. They've kept me breathing without even >> > knowing it... These are Gella's words, but lots of people could have written them. And I think they're important to keep in mind before we lash out in a way that makes someone feel bad about themselves, makes them feel like maybe what was the highlight of their week -- or month -- or year -- has all turned to ashes. That doesn't mean I think bad behavior should go unremarked -- but let's do it with debate and some semblance of specific reference, not vague accusations and wholesale putdowns of entire groups (ex: "teenagers"; "fishgirls"; "Jian's people") or communication shutdowns. Let this continue to be a constructive, friendly, accepting and non-judgmental community where we ALL check our assumptions at the door. - -- Lori ************************ Wouldn't it be great if no one ever got offended And wouldn't it be great to say what's really on your mind? I've always said all the rules are made for bendin' And if I let my hair down would that be such a crime? I want to be consequence free I want to be where nothing needs to matter Wouldn't it be great if the band just never ended We could stay out late and we would never hear last call We wouldn't need to worry about approval or permission We could slip off the edge and never worry about the fall ------------------------------ Date: 2 Dec 1999 20:28:42 GMT From: spencer@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Stephen Noel Spencer) Subject: Re: "sports" Chad Maloney (Chad@fruvous.com) wrote: : Jacey7 wrote: : : I believe this originated in Toledo (of all places) where there is : a place called Sports Arena or something where something happens. It : launched out into talking about Toledo naming things (and a semi-recap : of the style of banter was done at the November '98 Case-Western show). : At that show, "Sports" was thrown into Darlington Darling and it just : stuck. That's the story! We were there (at the show in Toledo) that night. The boys were poking fun at the powers-that-be in Toledo who named the sports arena in their fair city, "Sports Arena." - -- Stephen N. Spencer 614.292.1067 (v) Graphics Research Specialist spencer@siggraph.org 614.292.7776 (f) ACCAD - The Ohio State University spencer@cgrg.ohio-state.edu 614.520.5799 (p) SIGGRAPH Director for Publications spencer@acm.org "After ecstasy, laundry." -- Zen writing "The truth is that progress is usually small and sneaky." -- Anne Lamott "What is maddening is the terrible notion that a person's value depends on how important and financially successful they are, and that this is measured in terms of money." -- Tim Berners-Lee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 19:20:38 -0700 From: Katrin@optelnow.net (Katrin L. Salyers) Subject: re: tangents (was re: rant ... post d.c. show) In article <19991201055345.21386.rocketmail@send501.yahoomail.com>, frulove@yahoo.com says... [quoting much appreciation from Vincent, and I echo it too] > As for favorite memories... > our whole midwest trip was just totally > unbelievable. I never have gotten around to posting anything resembling a "review" of that trip, and don't know if I'll ever be able to put my feelings about it into words. All the wonderful people I met, the places I saw - it was truly the experience of a lifetime, and I can only hope that someday I'll have another like it. Passing by all those fields at harvest time, remembering how connected to the earth we still really are...Sleeping on the green couch...Sitting in a Kinko's in Milwaukee, soaked to the skin from a torrential downpour and frantically trying to figure out how to upload the next day's comic, while down the street the doors to the venue are opening...Adopting a couple of new "sisters"...Discovering (to all of our alarm) how much I like to drive really, really fast...Getting a free lunch at the expense of an inept waiter...Showing my mother one of the most important parts of my life, and having her understand and appreciate it too...Passing the Frübus in the middle of the night...Finally seeing what's left of my home town, which still hasn't fully recovered from the flood but will someday - - and running into an old friend right where I left him..."Homeward Bound" in Winnipeg - words can't say what that meant to me...Pinawa. School gym. Wow. What a privilege...Sketching a picture of Tory in that snazzy suit, by the light of my wristwatch...Illegally re-entering my own country at 4 a.m.... ...All that is just my own personal stuff, and I know that if I tried to explain it to anyone else it would be meaningless to them - but I know that all of you have your own memories just like those, and so I know you guys will understand that that's what this tripping is all about. And for that, thanks. > Speaking of tangents... Vincent (and anyone else > who wants to check out a cool band), the website > for High Water Limit is www.highh2o.com. They > seem to play Shank Hall a LOT... Yes, I can't recommend High Water Limit enough. I bought both their CDs (such a bargain!) at Shank Hall - the bass player's mom was selling them, and she gave me a free sticker too and introduced me to her son. I gave her a Pisco sticker and tried to explain it, though I'm not sure that would ever have been possible. k@ - -- "Don't be ashamed to say what you are not ashamed to think." - Michel de Montaigne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 23:19:46 GMT From: "Myla Fantastik" Subject: Re: FRUHEADS! UNITE AND...umm... well, hey, yes to this post too! I agreed with your origional one, and still agree with this one. The onle fruvous concert manners should be don't purposely be a butt head and if someone else is, once again don't be a butthead about it! - -Maddie/Myla "You know, it's funny, I've started referring to you in my head as 'myla'." - - alex cline And some say we're not geeks? I beg to differ! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 23:59:22 GMT From: McCown Subject: OT: "Dweebs" (was "Village Voice...") Tim said: <<(1) Reject Squad = hippies, nerds, social outcasts who are neither jocks or bashers, aren't more into their cars or their parties or their beer than they are into their relationships with their friends, would gladly take someone else's troubles and make them their own. Anyone is welcome to join us..just leave your preconceptions at the door, please.>> Oh hey, at my school we apparently have the "Nerd Clique" (which I, obviously, am a member of). It's not that bad, though...we don't exactly have to worry about doing something that would be considered uncool. Actually, though, I played "Downsizing" today for a religion presentation on justice in the workplace, and a couple of people told me after class that they really enjoyed it (of course, I didn't get to play the whole song because my teacher said it was too long...) love Lizzie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 23:59:22 GMT From: McCown Subject: Re: Collingswoodin'. . . Hey there puddin'. . . Anna said: <> Now that I think about it, you really could be right...though my all time favourite MBLABOA moment was at Pentagon City when all of the instruments cut out, and Murray was left standing there, quite confused and said, "turning pages?" But then again, that might be just because that day was the funnest day of my summer :) <> Well, yay! We love you Anna :) love Lizzie ------------------------------ Date: 04 Dec 1999 00:50:30 GMT From: cassiel104@aol.com (Cassiel104) Subject: Re: FRUHEADS! UNITE AND...umm... you're a genius..we ARE geeks...but I'm a damned CUTE geek ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 00:55:52 GMT From: "Daancing Queen" Subject: A Fruvous Show is like sex.... ....a certain amount of screaming is acceptable (and expected!), but too much can annoy your neighbours. :p ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 00:41:39 GMT From: Bridget Subject: re: tangents (was re: rant ... post d.c. show) - --- "Katrin L. Salyers" wrote: > ...Sleeping on the green couch... Sweetie... I *ahem* don't think it was _exactly_ called the "green" couch... hee hee. ===== over 'n' out xoxoxo bridget "The reason he's the greatest quarterback of all time is that he's a robot. C'mon, anyone can see it!" ~Murray 10/29/99, on John Elway (o; __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: 4 Dec 1999 02:01:35 GMT From: phresh@aol.com Subject: Get Paid While You Surf the Web! 7816 Get paid to surf the web! http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=FCJ475 nu ------------------------------ Date: 04 Dec 1999 02:50:02 GMT From: michykith@aol.com (Michykith) Subject: Re: Village Voice blur on Fruvous I find the Voice never has anything positive to say about anything, ever. They're so grumpy. ~Joni (fnjoni@fruhead.com) * * * * "This is a tune in the traditional celtic style called...funky." davy steele/battlefield band 11-9-99 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 21:48:21 -0500 From: "Kyle James Copeland" Subject: Re: A Fruvous Show is like sex.... bbbb bbb bbbbbbut... "Daancing Queen" wrote in message news:19991204004705.57343.qmail@hotmail.com... > ....a certain amount of screaming is acceptable (and expected!), but too > much can annoy your neighbours. :p > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: 04 Dec 1999 04:55:08 GMT From: gordonlew@aol.com (Gordon Nash) Subject: Behavior during opening acts. Something happened that disturbed me at one of the Westbeth shows. I didn't say anything there but I think I should now. When Tory Cassis was performing someone in the second row directly in front of Tory sat down, took out a flashlight and started reading. He couldn't help but see this. I decided that perhaps the person didn't realize that this is improper behavior so I'm letting them know that, and everyone else too. When you do something like that its distracting for everyone else and you might as well go up to the artist and say, "You are boring," If you don't like the opening act either leave or make believe you are paying attention. YOu don't have to applaud or anything but don't be so blatent about your lack of interest. This is their livelyhood and close to the heart of their being. And Tory was real good, what would the person have done with a bad act? Oh well. I just had to get that off my chest. I hope that didn't come off self rightious. Feanole aka DrWhoFru ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #996 ********************************************