From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #918 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Wednesday, October 27 1999 Volume 03 : Number 918 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: BOWERY BALLROOM WAS CHANGED! [jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7)] Re: Frv-O-Lantern II: The Sequel! [seqiro@mail2.nai.net (Paul D. Beasi)] I Love My Boss [Kyla Jemison ] Troubador show, 10/26 [zonker629@aol.com (Zonker 629)] (No Subject) ["andi andrzejewski" ] Re: Troubador show, 10/26 [vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin)] OT: New York City [Josh Drury ] Re: OT: New York City [lawrence solomon ] Re: under/over 21 shows [bsnow ] Troubadour show 10/26 ["Kathleen Cain" ] Troub: Nat Gertler [Nat Gertler ] RE: Troub:Nat G. [Tonya Moore ] Re: OT: New York City ["Jason A. Reiser" ] Keswick / 9:30 Club ["Vokes, Laurie" ] Rochester fruheads-we need help! ["Rebecca Stevens" ] Man, they really did a lot with it! [Kevin Bourrillion ] Re: Rochester fruheads-we need help! [limezinger@aol.commmmmmmm (miss mod] World Cafe [Clara ] Re: Troub: Nat Gertler [bballmick@aol.com (Bballmick)] Re: OT: New York City [Josh Drury ] Re: Troubadour show 10/26 [LSan497884@aol.com] Re: Re; OT: Arrogant Worms ["Snow In Summer" ] Re: short-->tall was Re: Fake ID needed (has nothing to do with this thread) [shadoeme@aol.comrad (G] Re: Troub: Nat Gertler [Nat Gertler ] Re: BOWERY BALLROOM WAS CHANGED! [Raenfaerie@aol.com] Re: itinerary [moxy@passport.ca (Moxy Fruvous)] Re: BOWERY BALLROOM WAS CHANGED! [FruCake1@aol.com] Re: BOWERY BALLROOM WAS CHANGED! [miyax ] Get Moxy on M2... It's a start. ["Jim Czadzeck" ] BOWERY BALLROOM WAS CHANGED! [Lynne ] Re: Fight the powah. [srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Oct 1999 04:25:19 GMT From: jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7) Subject: Re: BOWERY BALLROOM WAS CHANGED! >> Wed Dec 1 New York, NY Westbeth Theatre >> Thurs Dec 2 New York, NY Westbeth Theatre oh my goodness... see, this is where my loyalty/ sanity level will really come into play. I have vacation days, this is not an issue. I live close. But will I really be willing to admit to the coworkers that I am taking yet another day off to see my 4th show by the same band in the course of 2 weeks? Although, I *did* at one point know a lighting designer who occiasionally worked at the Westbeth.. wonder how he's doing... ;-) ~jen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Nobody likes you when you're 23"-- Blink 182 "Do you know that you are very strong?"-- Grover "Measure your life in love."--Rent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:02:02 GMT From: seqiro@mail2.nai.net (Paul D. Beasi) Subject: Re: Frv-O-Lantern II: The Sequel! On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:30:50 GMT, "Daancing Queen" wrote: >>Paul directed us to: >> >>http://users.ntplx.net/~jkpolk > >I should just point out for other silly people like me, that if you click on >the pumpkin picture, you will see this year's pumpkins (and can link to last >year's). If you click on the text link below, you will get last year's >pumpkins. Which are brilliant and was a treat to see again, but I was >confused about how I was missing out on this year's when everyone else >seemed to be able to find them. > Whoops! Thanks for pointing out the mistake, I forgot to change the text link! I'll update that as soon as I'm awake enough to. So in the meantime everyone, remember to click on the picture and not the text link. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 01:27:21 -0400 From: Kyla Jemison Subject: I Love My Boss I need music, or at least chord progressions for I Love My Boss. If anyone has them, I would be really happy if you could send them to me at miss_rrr@hotmail.com. Thanks ------------------------------ Date: 27 Oct 1999 09:01:43 GMT From: zonker629@aol.com (Zonker 629) Subject: Troubador show, 10/26 Wow. It's late, and I'm tired, but I successfully got 6 people to lose their Fruginity, and I'm pretty sure they all came away fans. At least they bought a CD or so each, so my work has been done. Mike's setlist: 1/2 Laika Horse 2 Care Sad (Girl) Lazy Moon Indy Booty (Boo Time, I think) King nat--This was pretty cool. They talked a bit about how they held a contest to name their second album, and Nat Gerbler(sp?) sent in a suggestion, "Songs For Nat G____". They then dragged him up on stage, along with his girlfriend, and he proposed to her on stage. Pretty interesting, and I'm sure I'd have more to say if it weren't so late. Also, it was kind of bizarre because it was followed up by.... Splatt. Hold (dedicated to Nat & Lara) MPG Author "spending all my money on-jars of Bovril" Car Shit (Your New Boyfriend) Psych ______________ They did a little snippet of "Believe" by Cher in here. Mich Video (Disco Bargainville) "...say no no raja/at Video Bargainville" _______________ Drink His notes for Boo Time were on there too: Melrose Shoppin'/Ploppers Ploppin' Troubadorin'/Guts & Gorin' Staples Centre/Sports Placenta Mallet Swingin'/Rodney Kingin' Robitaille Lukin'/LA Flukin' Somewhere in there they did a little bit of "Someday" by Sugar Ray, and a couple of little improv bits on LA. It's way too late. Hopefully one of the more dedicated fruheads there will post a better review. Steph? Beth? Eric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:32:42 GMT From: "andi andrzejewski" Subject: (No Subject) They then dragged him up on stage, along with his girlfriend, and he proposed to her on stage. Congradulations Nat and Lara!!!!!!!!! andi Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://my.lycos.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:28:02 GMT From: vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Troubador show, 10/26 Spake zonker629@aol.com (Zonker 629): >nat--This was pretty cool. They talked a bit about how they held a contest to >name their second album, and Nat Gerbler(sp?) sent in a suggestion, "Songs For >Nat G____". They then dragged him up on stage, along with his girlfriend, and >he proposed to her on stage. Nat Gertler!! Hi Nat Gertler, and congrats! I'm *assuming* she accepted; oh, I wish I was there to see this. :) So what happened? >They did a little snippet of "Believe" by Cher in here. With *who* on the lead, pray tell? - -v, now *really* wishing she'd been there - ----------- Vika Zafrin ----------- vika@attglobal.net ----------- http://www.fruhead.com/users/vika/index.html http://www.brown.edu/Research/Decameron "Hey, ground, I'm nobody's lunch." -Eddie From Ohio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:07:57 -0500 From: Josh Drury Subject: OT: New York City Just had to mention that every time I read about the Bowery Ballroom, I get the first verse of TMBG's "New York City" in me head. While I'm on that, actually, can anyone tell me who actually wrote that song? Josh Drury Winnipeg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:21:50 -0400 From: lawrence solomon Subject: Re: OT: New York City Josh Drury wrote: > > Just had to mention that every time I read about the Bowery Ballroom, I get > the first verse of TMBG's "New York City" in me head. While I'm on that, > actually, can anyone tell me who actually wrote that song? I think it's quite possible that the Bowery *something*, which must be shortened to "the Bowery" by people familiar with it, is what was intended in the original lyrics, which said "It was *in* the Bowery..." which doesn't make much sense if they're referring to a street. (then again, the original lyrics said a lot of things that TMBG sort of missed) The song was originally written and recorded by a group called Cub from Vancouver. They existed from 1992 until 1997, when they decided that "5 years was enough."[1] They have 4 CDs out, and they're reasonably hard to find. Tower tends to carry them, and they'll certainly order them if you ask, but I doubt you'd find them at a smaller record store. They're good. I recommend that everyone buy all their CDs. :) [1] I'm still convinced that the people who were rude to them while they were opening for TMBG helped contribute to their breakup. - -- lawrence solomon * http://www.fruhead.com/users/zaph * zaph@fruhead.com "You knew it was true, when I held you, there were no secrets. I believed it." -Moxy Früvous, _I Will Hold On_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:31:18 -0400 From: bsnow Subject: Re: under/over 21 shows Jacey7 wrote: > > >>Long Haired Persians etc<< > > ok, is anyone else picturing a very Fifi-in-the-Hamptoms breed of cat? > > ~jen > "Why, Peaches, you absolutely *must* get yourself a long-haired Persian... I'll > have Olaf the garden boy find one with *superb* lineage..." > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > "Nobody likes you when you're 23"-- Blink 182 > "Do you know that you are very strong?"-- Grover > "Measure your life in love."--Rent I knew I shouldn't have been reading this while drinking my morning coffee!! Anyone know how to dry out a monitor? Thanks, Jen, I really needed something like that to get me back on track after a not-so-great week. Bunny ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:42:32 GMT From: "Kathleen Cain" Subject: Troubadour show 10/26 Wow! What a great night. I'm thoroughly exhausted however. You'll find out why in a moment. It all started off as a normal Tuesday. Me, quietly working at my desk and making plans to go play darts with friends that night and quietly envious of my sister who was going to the Troub that night. Around 1:30 I decide to call her to tell her about something I received in the mail at work. She begins to tell me that the person who was going to see Fruvous that night with her had backed out and so she had this extra ticket. Maybe I'd like to go? I laughed a little at first then said, well, I could always take the red eye home. (This is where I tell you that I live in St. Paul.) To shorten up the story, I decided to check the flights (I work at an airline, so it makes a trip like this more feasable), and found that I could get there and back if I left work a little early and got in a little late on Wednesday. With my boss's blessing, I rushed home to feed the kitties and put on another dress before running through the airport to catch my flight. Whew!!! Just made it! For only my 2nd show, it was quite an experience! I met some new people (who, by the way, were VERY funny!), and finally got to meet the guys. We had to rush after the show, however, as my flight left at 2:30 and my sister had a long drive home from the airport as well as trying to get enough sleep to go to work today. Murray shook my hand twice when he heard I had flown out to LA from Minneapolis just to catch their show. (Well, I got to see my sister as well. That was a SUPER bonus! :-) ) Nat's proposal, by the way, almost made us cry! They were so adorable and when they played IWHO for them, we almost broke down...so we went out for a smoke instead. (Cough! Cough!) I am sorry if this is disjointed and nonsensical. It is 9:30 am and I've flown 2000 miles, saw a show, flew 2000 more miles and now I'm at work like I had never left. Can't wait for 4:30! Kathleen Deplane! Deplane! ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 07:51:18 -0700 From: Nat Gertler Subject: Troub: Nat Gertler Okay, here's what happened: About halfway through the show, around 11:15 or so, Jian asks if Nat Gertler is in the crowd. I wave a hand. He starts spinning the story of the fan suggestions for names for the second album, and how some guy named Nat Gertler from California had suggested one of their fave names: Songs For Nat Gertler. The audience seems amused by this, and I'm acting a little embarrassed for all the attention. Then Jian beckons me on-stage, and I start to wave it off, but at the urging of the crowd I go up. Jian asks if I came with someone today (couples at the show having already been a theme of the night), and I point out my girlfriend, The Lovely Lara. The Frus start playing Lara's Theme (from Dr. Zhivago), and she gets beckoned on stage. Jian then confesses to Lara that I knew I'd be dragged on stage, that this was all planned, but that I have something to say to her. I'm handed a mike. I drop to one knee, and at this point the crowd is going while and I have to pause for a few second to make sure that I'll be heard. I say something to the effect of: "Lara Hughes, I love you and I adore you. Will you do me the honor of becoming my wife?" At this point, she appears to be laughing and crying all at once, and she leans over to hug me and says yes. We hug and smooch, and head off-stage. One kindly and faithful Fruhead (and forgive me, but I've forgotten your name... I hope you can understand that a lot was racing through my head last night) gave us Murray's set list, which includes the notation of where this event was to take place during the performance I'll be getting that framed along with the tickets for the night. DID ANYONE TAPE LAST NIGHT'S SHOW? I hope you understand that I would really, really like to have a copy of that show, particularly the proposal portion. (And if any of the photographers happen to snap our presence on the stage, we'd also like copies of those shots.) Big thanks go out to the lads... and to Judith Coombe, of their management group, who helped in setting this crazy thing up. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:30:05 -0400 From: Tonya Moore Subject: RE: Troub:Nat G. I wasn't at the show, so I can't help on taping, etc....but I just wanted to say "congratulations" to Nat and Lara. As Jian said at the Mpls show, "We encourage inter-frühead marriage." Way to go guys! ------------------------------ Date: 27 Oct 1999 07:56:11 -0700 From: "Jason A. Reiser" Subject: Re: OT: New York City In article <38170A7E.2567B875@fruhead.com>, lawrence says... > >Josh Drury wrote: >> >> Just had to mention that every time I read about the Bowery Ballroom, I get >> the first verse of TMBG's "New York City" in me head. While I'm on that, >> actually, can anyone tell me who actually wrote that song? > >I think it's quite possible that the Bowery *something*, which must be >shortened to "the Bowery" by people familiar with it, is what was intended in >the original lyrics, which said "It was *in* the Bowery..." which doesn't make >much sense if they're referring to a street. (then again, the original lyrics >said a lot of things that TMBG sort of missed) Actually, the lyric makes sense if you know that the Bowery is an area of the City, not just a street. - - Jason jreiser@ecoutez.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:28:18 GMT From: "Vokes, Laurie" Subject: Keswick / 9:30 Club Are either of these shows sold out? Any info is appreciated! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:35:54 -0400 From: "Rebecca Stevens" Subject: Rochester fruheads-we need help! Hey y'all--a bunch of Syracusians are coming out to the Harro East show, but our dilemma, if you will, is that we need to figure out where to get tix from. We are desperately trying to avoid ticketmaster's sick fees, so we figured buying from a place like Record Archive would be a better way to go...question is, of the places selling tix, does anyone know who has the lowest (or no) fee, and/or would mail tix to us, OR, would someone who is going to buy tix anyways mind picking up an extra bunch if I send a check and a SASE? Thanks! - -Becca (can't wait! 2 1/2 months is TOO LONG!) ps...is it RAchacha or ROchacha?...always perplexed me... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:32:25 -0700 From: Kevin Bourrillion Subject: Man, they really did a lot with it! Check it out: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/eras/B000001FFJ001004 Amazing. Kevin ------------------------------ Date: 27 Oct 1999 19:01:05 GMT From: limezinger@aol.commmmmmmm (miss modular) Subject: Re: Rochester fruheads-we need help! >ps...is it RAchacha or ROchacha?...always perplexed me... rah. :) rhymes with that cha-cha-cha song they always play on wber. (oops, sorry i can't help with the ticket question..) saRAH. linnellgirl@tmbg.org http://members.aol.com/limezinger "we're quite snobby, in the sense that we get bored easily, and we don't like music or movies that are predictable. we like things that 'bounce' in a weird fashion." - laetitia sadier ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:57:09 GMT From: Clara Subject: World Cafe World Cafe will be rebroadcasting the October 1 Moxy Fruvous show on Monday, Nov 1, for those of you that missed it last time! http://www.xpn.org/sections/world_cafe.html Clara qualia@fruhead.com Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ------------------------------ Date: 27 Oct 1999 20:47:34 GMT From: bballmick@aol.com (Bballmick) Subject: Re: Troub: Nat Gertler Hey Nat- Congratulations! That is such an adorable way to propose to someone :) It must have taken a lot of courage... Congrats :) Maria ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:33:30 -0500 From: Josh Drury Subject: Re: OT: New York City lawrence solomon wrote: > The song was originally written and recorded by a group called Cub from > Vancouver. Thanks! I guess that means the song qualifies as Canadian Content. Josh Drury Winnipeg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:23:40 GMT From: LSan497884@aol.com Subject: Re: Troubadour show 10/26 WOW! That's an amazing trip, and worth probably double the frumiles! (But I'm not a judge of that, so...) If you could do that to get to LA and back, what an easy trip it will be to drive (or fly!) down to Ames for the show on Nov. 2. It would be about 4 hours approx from St. Paul, but you would be tired (again!) the next day if you do it all in one day. The venue here is pretty small (200), but I like the fact that it will be an ideal place for some off-mic work (I hope--GWS, please, please??) Maria, several of her friends and I are headed up there tonight for Eddie from Ohio. Looking forward to that, too! *Lois (Fogeyfru) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:11:07 GMT From: "Snow In Summer" Subject: Re: Re; OT: Arrogant Worms Josh Drury replied: > Must be nice living in the band's hometown, so they actually stock > their CD's... I asked at the local HMV and they were perplexed. But, > the worst case scenario is that I'd have to wait until their concert > here, and that's in less than two weeks. Josh & all other Worm fans- don't know if this is much help... but i found that the Worms are in the folk section @ HMV & also for sale on the web @ http://www.arrogant-worms.com/purchase (actually, it's festival distribution http://www.festival.bc.ca & they accept cards over the web... as well as a toll-free phone #). - -Amy Every time I hear someone say "oh yes, computers are much easier these days. Anyone can use them" I have this urge to remove their lungs with a crowbar. - -Ross Hendry ------------------------------ Date: 27 Oct 1999 21:06:19 GMT From: shadoeme@aol.comrad (Genna) Subject: Re: short-->tall was Re: Fake ID needed (has nothing to do with this thread) >I'm 5' tall. I went out for over a year with a boy who was 6'1'' ...a full >>foot and a half taller than me. > >wait... i'm missing the extra half foot... (which is why i'm in remedial >math, >i guess) ;) > uch...I'm trying to function on far too little sleep. My brain went away without me. I was thinking "over a foot taller than me" and thinking ahead to the 6'7'' guy who is "a full half a foot taller then him (the 6'1'' guy)" see...it all made sence in my tired little brain. solem, Genna ^^^^^^^^^ We love trees we love the snow the friends we have the world we share, and you find magic from your god and we find magic everywhere. ~Dar Williams, "The Christians and the Pagans" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:41:29 -0700 From: Nat Gertler Subject: Re: Troub: Nat Gertler Bballmick wrote: > > Hey Nat- Congratulations! That is such an adorable way to propose to someone :) Thank you. And to everyone else for their comments as well. > It must have taken a lot of courage... Nah, just takes being a ham. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:48:25 GMT From: Raenfaerie@aol.com Subject: Re: BOWERY BALLROOM WAS CHANGED! I called the closest thing to the Westbeth Theater in the Manhattan phone book, and asked if they did all ages shows (the Dec. 1 and 2nd shows weren't listed with them yet). They said they don't; it's 18+ Perhaps this will change, but maybe not. :sob:. I didn't have my hopes up for too long, but congratulations anyway to all of you "betweeners" (i.e., 18, 19 and 20 year olds). Cry with me. Cry, cry! :( ok, i *think* i'm done now. - -maryam- sniffle > I wonder why : ) Ok, we probably had nothing to do with it, it's > probably just a strange coincidence...but can one get into this place if > one is under 18?? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:24:16 -0500 From: moxy@passport.ca (Moxy Fruvous) Subject: Re: itinerary In article <0.b6e1a062.254759ed@aol.com>, StarflashJ@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/26/99 9:35:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > moxy@passport.ca writes: > > << Wed Dec 1 New York, NY Westbeth Theatre > Thurs Dec 2 New York, NY Westbeth Theatre >> > > I thought that Fruvous was going to be playing at the Bowery Ballroom on Dec > 1st.. does an anyone know ifthis is a mistake or where they are really > playing? I was all ready to buy the tickets next weekend when I went to see > Dan Bern.. if someone could let me know whats going on that would be cool. > thanks > > ~*Jen*~ Hey there! This is not a mistake, the band is playing both nights at the Westbeth. Let me know if you need more info! Jude Judith Coombe Management Assistant, Moxy Fruvous 416-368-5599 moxy@passport.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:15:23 GMT From: FruCake1@aol.com Subject: Re: BOWERY BALLROOM WAS CHANGED! In a message dated 10/27/99 12:33:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jacey7@aol.com writes: << But will I really be willing to admit to the coworkers that I am taking yet another day off >> I have the same problem!! They already think I'm a psycho because I"m going to the Ottawa shows. I love it!! :) Lisa Bills- counting down the days!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:08:45 -0400 From: miyax Subject: Re: BOWERY BALLROOM WAS CHANGED! No! And things were really looking up for us, too...shall we protest outside this one as well? hehe miyax Raenfaerie@aol.com wrote: > > I called the closest thing to the Westbeth Theater in the Manhattan phone > book, and asked if they did all ages shows (the Dec. 1 and 2nd shows weren't > listed with them yet). They said they don't; it's 18+ Perhaps this will > change, but maybe not. :sob:. I didn't have my hopes up for too long, but > congratulations anyway to all of you "betweeners" (i.e., 18, 19 and 20 year > olds). Cry with me. Cry, cry! :( > ok, i *think* i'm done now. > -maryam- > sniffle > > > I wonder why : ) Ok, we probably had nothing to do with it, it's > > probably just a strange coincidence...but can one get into this place if > > one is under 18?? - -- For the most Interesting sites on the net, check out the Interesting Link of the Month hq @ http://secondhandwonder.virtualave.net While you're there, check out: *WinAmp Skins - for a change of interface *The American's Guide to Sailor Moon - the title says it all Click on "Return to Main" to access the mini-network. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:32:28 -0400 From: "Jim Czadzeck" Subject: Get Moxy on M2... It's a start. Hey, I was thinking it would be good to request Moxy Fruvous' videos, especially "I Will Hold On," to M2 to get them some exposure. Here's the address to request: http://www.mtv.com/mtv/tubescan/mtv2/ click on feedback! Thanks, JimCz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 01:21:11 GMT From: Lynne Subject: BOWERY BALLROOM WAS CHANGED! I am sure they are 2 very different places, one- downtown in a cool area, one upper west side in a more obscure area. This summer, I went to a play reading at the westbeth: "Workshop/reading with Westbeth Theatre Center, NYC for her drama, THIS GIFT OF ME, June 26th and a continuing future "next level" with this play also at Westbeth, April 24, 2000." I didn't get to see the stage, unfortunately, we were in one of the back rooms. The place is really out of the way, I think extreme west side with not much else around. Try to find it in the daylight before the show. I think it is on the north West Corner (helpful to those city-folks). - -lynne, only 7 months until I can move back to the east coast! > Wed Dec 1 New York, NY Westbeth Theatre > Thurs Dec 2 New York, NY Westbeth Theatre ------------------------------ Date: 28 Oct 1999 01:26:52 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com) Subject: Re: Fight the powah. ellen said: >the rest of this incomplete thought was to apologize if it seemed >otherwise. i didn't mean to imply that i was making any judgment call on >lawrence or anyone else. i only meant to raise a question, and when lori >called me out on that, i explained why i thought the question was >important. i.e. it would be lame if all of this *were* for nothing, >wouldn't it? and for the record, yes I agree that it would be lame if we were just batting the idea around with no one at all intending to do anything at all besides complain. (I really shouldn't insert myself in incendiary threads and then bail on the ng for 3 days in a row. /bad lori! :) ) Anyway, I'm not going to start the whole debate up again by analysing in great detail what I agree or disagree with in ellen's response to me. I didn't feel that she attacked (or judged) me or Lawrence, but was speaking out of her own view of appropriate, effective actions vs inappropriate or ineffective ones. And that's cool. We're allowed to have differing opinions, different approaches, disagree vehemently with one another, and still respect one another. In fact, that's what makes a group dynamic so effective. When you get those different approaches working together for a common goal, instead of just sniping at one another's methods -- when those who are happier theorizing and analysing can lay out the groundwork, and those who are happier acting can look at the groundwork and stake out their positions and tactics, you have a far stronger response to a problem han either could summon alone. And that's my final word on the subject. I hope. ;) As ellen is wont to say: *peace*, - -- Lori ***************** If I said you were crazy Would you have to fight me? ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #918 ********************************************