From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #903 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Thursday, October 21 1999 Volume 03 : Number 903 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: 18/21+ shows [lawrence solomon ] Q: WNY fruheads ["Snow In Summer" ] 18/21+ shows [ap003f@mail1 (Adrianne)] Re: Fake ID's, Club hours, etc. [limezinger@aol.commmmmmmm (miss modular)] Re: One more thing about fake IDs [nicole.twn.is@ana.ng.at.tmbg.org (Nico] Re: One more thing about fake IDs [limezinger@aol.commmmmmmm (miss modula] Re: San Francisco [dalevy@aol.com (DALevy)] Re: Fake ID needed : ) [bbwminors@aol.com (BBWMinors)] Re: Fake ID needed : ) [cookie ] OT: drinking age (Was Fake ID needed) ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Cookie - e-me? [vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin)] Re: One more thing about fake IDs [srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruh] Re: Bowery Ballroom AnD 18/21 all in one!!!!!! [StarflashJ@aol.com] Re: 18/21+ shows [vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin)] Re: One more thing about fake IDs [Ellen ] Fw: Fake ID's, Club hours, etc. ["Kathleen Cain" ] Re: Fake ID needed : ) [lawrence solomon ] Re: Bowery Ballroom [ScarletB23@aol.com] Re: 18/21+ shows ["Kate Leahy" ] Re: Fw: Fake ID's, Club hours, etc. [vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:12:37 -0400 From: lawrence solomon Subject: Re: 18/21+ shows disclaimer: I don't intend to start a flamewar, but it's going to be hard for me to keep my tone down in this message. Adrianne wrote: > My favorite shows are the ones that are 21+. Not because of the alcohol, > Also, the band takes on a different tone of banter, which I find more > amusing. The same goes for 18+ shows, but to a lesser extent. No offense > to those of you under 18 or 21 out there, but there is definitely a > difference in the shows. Tough it up, you are going to have to wait to > know what I am talking about. That is life. That's a pretty arrogant attitude to take. You're basically saying "too bad your parents didn't decide to have you sooner, that's your tough luck." They may have slightly different banter, but I think that depends much more on the night than anything - I've seen them get into some pretty "adult" subjects at all ages shows. And even if the banter is different that doesn't mean it's necessarily better or worse. > Also, I think the band is aware of this. Why else would they have an > all ages show AND a 21+ show in the SAME VENUE back to back (as was the > case in Buffalo a few years ago)? I feel they are actually showing > respect to their older viewers by doing this. Why? because you don't want to have to deal with "kids" at a Fruvous show because you're too good for them or something? I think the back to back 21+ and all ages thing, like they're doing in Buffalo this year, is more out of respect for the *younger* viewers, since there's no way in hell they'd be able to get an all ages show for the New Year's Eve show where there is bound to be a LOT more drinking than usual, they scheduled another show so that the younger crowd can also enjoy their music. (this happens with a lot of bands around New Years - TMBG did two shows at Tramps last year, one for all ages, and a late show for the older crowd) And I hate to think that they're age bigots and schedule 21+ shows for the sake of excluding people. That would just be outright mean. Discrimination does not respect anyone, *especially* those who become "privileged." > I don't mean to sound all "high and mighty" for being over 21, I just Then what do you mean to sound? Because that's *exactly* how it comes across - - basically as you saying "Younger people make the shows less interesting so I think the shows are better when they're not allowed in." - -- lawrence solomon * http://www.fruhead.com/users/zaph * zaph@fruhead.com "You knew it was true, when I held you, there were no secrets. I believed it." -Moxy Früvous, _I Will Hold On_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:54:37 GMT From: "Snow In Summer" Subject: Q: WNY fruheads ok, WNY fruheads, i have a dumb question... on WKBW (buffalo) last night, there was an a capella choir which was singing KoS & will be playing the Hamburg HS shortly... who are they??? i've sen these guys all over & have always missed their names. help!! - -Amy, querying the fan base :) Every time I hear someone say "oh yes, computers are much easier these days. Anyone can use them" I have this urge to remove their lungs with a crowbar. - -Ross Hendry ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 1999 04:37:41 GMT From: ap003f@mail1 (Adrianne) Subject: 18/21+ shows Um, sorry if you take offense to my personal enjoyment of shows. I don't like places overun with younger folk, never have, even when I was younger. I was often embarrassed by the behavior of my peers. Now that I am older, I enjoy the older shows, because I don't get as annoyed. That is my right. I was not refering to the NYE show last year, but to a set of shows two summers ago. I went to both shows, and there was a HUGE difference, and the band seemed to enjoy themselves much more at the older show, because they didn't have to edit themselves. All i was saying is that maybe the band enjoys playing to shows where the audience is in general more mature, and that is why these venues pop up. I have a right to my opinion, as do you. If you feel that there is no difference in the tone of the shows, and that all shouldbe all-ages. o be it, that is your right. But don't try to tell me that I am wrong, because I am just as entitled to my views as you are, and that is all they are - views. In the end, no one really gives a rats ass. There are much more important things to worry about. when you see the light at the end of the tunnel, beware. it could be the headlights of a train coming straight at you. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 1999 05:35:09 GMT From: limezinger@aol.commmmmmmm (miss modular) Subject: Re: Fake ID's, Club hours, etc. >Of course it sounds arbitrary to you. You are still too young to >understand >the difference a year or even a few months can make to a person's >maturity >and sense of responsibility. oiy vey. that has got to be the stupidest and, well, the most... ludicrous remark i've ever read in a thread of this topic (though i don't even know who originally wrote it..i only got this in a reply). though following that line of thought, well, you're obviously talking about 21+ shows, because i know when i turned 18, i wasn't automatically showered with all my adult maturity and responsibility. so that happens on your 21st birthday eh? thanks, i'll be awaiting it. sarah linnellgirl@tmbg.org http://members.aol.com/limezinger "we're quite snobby, in the sense that we get bored easily, and we don't like music or movies that are predictable. we like things that 'bounce' in a weird fashion." - laetitia sadier ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 05:34:31 GMT From: nicole.twn.is@ana.ng.at.tmbg.org (Nicole the Wonder Nerd) Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs On Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:49:45 -0400, someone who looked like lawrence solomon whispered: >can anyone cite an example of an all-ages venue that specifically does not >serve alcohol anywhere inside? The Freight & Salvage, in Berkeley, CA, is an all-ages venue that never serves alcohol. [1] Morgan's Coffee and Tea, in Monterey, CA, is an all-ages venue that never serves alcohol. The Winters Opera House, in Winters, CA, is an all-ages venue that never serves alcohol. Shows put on by UC Davis Presents (Freeborn Hall, Main Theater, Rec Hall) are always dry and always all-ages. The Stanford CoHo, where Fruvous are playing on Friday, is an all-ages venue that doesn't serve alcohol (if memory serves, Stanford is a dry campus). The Davis CoHo, here at UCD, is an all-ages venue that never... you get the picture. When bands play in churches (yes, churches; I can think of several bands offhand that have done concerts in churches), such shows are--in every case I can think of--both all-ages and dry. Hope this suffices. :) - --nicole twn [1] To counter the teeny-bopper argument: the Freight, despite being all-ages and even admitting children under 12 for half-price, is frequented almost entirely by adults. *** "Some people think I'm neurotic and all, but I'm not; I just like to think about things over and over and over again..."--Eddie From Ohio Visit Nicolopolis! http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~carlsonn Reply-to address is INCORRECT! Think of it as an intelligence test. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 1999 06:19:32 GMT From: limezinger@aol.commmmmmmm (miss modular) Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs >I think we've already been over the fact that people who are under 21 aren't >customers. interesting.. so... like say, someone under 21 wanted to bootleg or even photograph a concert, but the venue has a strict no recording/camera equipment allowed rule. bet they'd suddenly be a customer if they were caught with it. hehe. but wait.. customer (noun) : one that purchases a commodity or service funny, i think if you buy a ticket for a show, that instantly makes you a definite "customer". but then again, that's the way my mind thinks. sarah linnellgirl@tmbg.org http://members.aol.com/limezinger "we're quite snobby, in the sense that we get bored easily, and we don't like music or movies that are predictable. we like things that 'bounce' in a weird fashion." - laetitia sadier ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 1999 06:35:42 GMT From: dalevy@aol.com (DALevy) Subject: Re: San Francisco >Well, I've been very busy... working 16 hour days to get my >project launched on time, and all that. Flying to New York for a single >night to drink French Champagne with the glitterati. What, are you imitating me now? I'm going to at least the Friday night and Saturday night shows. Will have several friends in tow for Saturday. Chocolate tour -- with champagne, of course -- sounds good to me. (Note that my old work e-mail no longer reaches me. New address is dlevy(at)nasw(nospamplease)(dot)org.) ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 1999 07:10:20 GMT From: bbwminors@aol.com (BBWMinors) Subject: Re: Fake ID needed : ) A few of you gave me this thread ... I think Josh said: << I think the oldest person I ID'd was about 34. They appeared grateful.>> and Lori added ... <> I giggle because I write this not two hours after getting carded at a rock club in Scottsdale (remember, guys, it's been two weeks since I turned 40!!!!!) and I almost kissed the bouncer. Now, I do have my hair in braids but still ... when I gave him my driver's licence and he looked at it so quickly, I said, "Aw, you didn;t even check the birthdate, you were just carding me because I had a "PLLLLEEEEASE card me" look, right?" and he said, "NO, I saw 1959 and figured I didn't have to look any more ... but you don't look it." Ye Olde Bagge Queen Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:54:35 -0700 From: cookie Subject: Re: Fake ID needed : ) Just felt like adding an old fogey's opinion. Vika Zafrin wrote: > > Spake lawrence solomon : > > >really, though, shouldn't a club be ok as long as they keep themselves > >covered? i.e. if someone is drinking underage but does so responsibly (as > >responsible as one can be when they're violating the local laws) and also > >doesn't get caught, is any harm done? > > Legally, YES. The venue is held entirely responsible if they serve anyone underage alcohol. They could lose their liquor license, their livelihood, and could possibly go to jail if they serve minors. Serving underage people alcohol is NOT a local law, but a federal one, and one I fully support. I grew up in Nebraska in the 70s when the drinking age was 18, but by the time I graduated high school, there were 3 students in my class of 200 that didn't live to receive their diplomas. They were all killed in drinking-related accidents. It's entirely possible that those people might be alive today if they had to find someone over the age of 21 to buy them liquor--instead of a fellow classmate who was 18. > >it just seems that there should be so many better ways to deal with the > >problem than age discrimination, which really is what this comes down to, even > >if that's denied in the FAQ. > > You wanna change the laws? You want to change this country's f****g > idiotic attitude toward alcohol? Go right ahead. I'll be right behind > you. But, as has been pointed out, do not go blaming clubs for this. > Or the FAQ, for that matter. Quite frankly, I don't think age limitation on serving alcohol is idiotic. Sure, it's unfortunate that you don't get to see Fruvous as often as you'd like, but you're pretty lucky that there are so many venues that actually have 18+ nights. I never saw a band in a bar until I was of age because there weren't any 18+ venues. Be patient. You'll eventually grow old and withered just like the rest of us! :-) I understand your frustrations, but sometimes laws are there for a reason. Cookie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:43:10 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: OT: drinking age (Was Fake ID needed) cookie wrote: > Serving underage people > alcohol is NOT a local law, but a federal one, and one I fully support. Um, actually I don't believe it is. Drinking ages are set at the state level. Under the Reagan administration, the federal government used a rather fascistic (I was gonna mention this earlier) :) and underhanded way to force states that otherwise did not want a 21 year old drinking age to enact one anyway--They threatened to cut off all federal highway funds if states did not comply with their wishes. Faced with a no win situation, the more liberal states gave in and raised their drinking ages to the absurd level of 21 (note that I'm 35 and my opinion has never wavered on this issue) creating the seemingly uniform law we see today. > I grew up in Nebraska in the 70s when the drinking age was 18, but by > the time I graduated high school, there were 3 students in my class of > 200 that didn't live to receive their diplomas. They were all killed in > drinking-related accidents. It's entirely possible that those people > might be alive today if they had to find someone over the age of 21 to > buy them liquor--instead of a fellow classmate who was 18. I'm unmoved by this argument. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Education, not higher drinking ages is the only answer. Do you actually think for one second that a 21 year old drinking age keeps alcohol out of the hands of teens? It never stopped them when I was in school, and I don't see it stopping them now. Hey you younger folks out there. Question: if you wanted to, could you get your hands on alcoholic beverages? Is the drinking age really what is stopping you from getting plastered and then going out for a drive? Really, I must say if we are so concerned about drinking and driving why not raise the DRIVING age to 21? That makes a lot more sense to me than the drinking age. I think this whole issue is not about saving lives as some would have you believe. I think it is about twisted American morality. > Quite frankly, I don't think age limitation on serving alcohol is > idiotic. Sure, it's unfortunate that you don't get to see Fruvous as > often as you'd like, but you're pretty lucky that there are so many > venues that actually have 18+ nights. I never saw a band in a bar until > I was of age because there weren't any 18+ venues. Be patient. You'll > eventually grow old and withered just like the rest of us! :-) It is not just a matter of access to shows for underagers. There is a basic principal involved here. 18 year olds are supposedly adults. They can be held responsible for their actions in court, they can marry and buy homes, they can be drafted, yet the government says they are not responsible enough to drink. Excuse me, but that is bullshit. We have to make up our minds here. When is someone old enough to be an adult? The argument about drinking and driving is totally unconvincing to me. If you look at other countries where drinking is more liberalized, you will find that they do not have the same drunk driving problems as we do here. That is because they take a more responsible attitude towards alcohol consumption. Instead of making it a big taboo they make it a regular part of life, and what they get is people who act MORE responsibly. Unfortunately in the US we have a very long history of attempting to legislate morality. Thanks to our puritan ancestors, sex and drugs are two things that nearly all of us tacitly think of as weaknesses or failings. They are "wrong". Coming from this perspective we go out of our way to "protect" our children from these "evils". Little do most of us realize that we are actually making them more vulnerable to evils, by denying them the chance to learn responsible behavior for themselves. When are we as a nation going to understand that the adage "Do as I say, not as I do" will never, ever work for keeping kids out of trouble? - -- _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:19:24 +0100 From: "Phil Miles" Subject: OT: Arrogant Worms My now wife borrowed a couple of CDs by 'The Arrogant Worms' which were lent by Canadian friends of hers after hearing about our interest in MF. They're style is similar to MF's Wood like era - only more Monty Pyton (!) We've just found a Canadian online store that will apparently send us the CDs but info seems hard to come by - even on the web so: 1) If you've not heard of them, check them out. 2) Does anyone know of any other net sources of worms info? 3) Any other similar bands? I do really like 'Thornhill' but it does seem to lack the socio-politoical comment of the eralier records. Arrogant Worms is mainly just silly but I do like the wry comment in tracks such as 'Goin' Huntin'. - -- Phil Miles (UK) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:56:35 GMT From: vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Cookie - e-me? Sorry about this, everyone. Cookie - I tried to send you an e-mail but it got bounced to me! What address should I use? I deleted your post and don't know if it was maybe in your sig or not. - -v - ----------- Vika Zafrin ----------- vika@attglobal.net ----------- http://www.fruhead.com/users/vika/index.html http://www.brown.edu/Research/Decameron "Hey, ground, I'm nobody's lunch." -Eddie From Ohio ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 1999 12:41:12 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com) Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs Lawrence said: >I'm not putting words anywhere - you specifically said you were more likely >to >go to a show where those are available, so by the definition of "more" you >must be less likely to go to a show where they're not available. So? Lawrence, I think you've gone off on a separate tangent here. Last I checked we were talking about the rights of underagers, not Prohibition. >actually, every venue I've ever been to, regardless of its age restrictions, >has served alcohol. 9:30 Club (DC), Unspeakable in Philly, wife Queen Lisa is a club in Philly? :D >can anyone cite an example of an all-ages venue that specifically does not >serve alcohol anywhere inside? Tons of them, but they're not nightclub or bar venues. If Fruvous plays a high school auditorium. If they play a church (like the 11/11/98 Wilmington concert.) The Clearwater Coffeehouse series. Probably the upcoming concert in Collingswood NJ. The Ocean City Music Pier. I'm not sure about the Keswick. Non-serving venues they haven't played (but GBS has) include the Painted Bride Art Center in Philly and the Westmont Theatre in Westmont NJ. etc etc etc ... Lori@fruhead.com ~^~^~^ ~~~^~ ^~^~^ ~^~ ^~^ ~^~^~^~^~ ~^~ ^~^ ^~^~^~ ^~^~ ^~^~~~ My Strange and Wonderful World: http://members.aol.com/srm9988n/index.html The spiffy, newly-updated amm-f FAQ: http://www.fruvous.com/news/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:40:27 GMT From: StarflashJ@aol.com Subject: Re: Bowery Ballroom AnD 18/21 all in one!!!!!! The thing about the ages for shows... thats based on the bands management I think. I know that there is almost no problem getting to a Dan Bern show, which I will be at!!!!And Dan deff needs the restriction for then Fruvous.. however I think thats a thing for the group to deal with. I've never been to the Ballroom.. but I've heard ok things 'bout it.. but who knows. As to incorporate the 18/21 show email into this..... i don't think there should a 21 show.. they are no different because I have been to both.. even though i am not over 21. Most places will let you in anyways,, So for whoever the ruse person was that said the rest of us shoudl wait.. why don't you just sit home and listen to a CD and have your own private concert!!!!!!!!! :-p And NO offense to Fruvous, but there concerts don't tend to be "OVERRUN" with people. Some people!! Sorry bout that! ~*Jen*~ <: >And I hate to think that they're age bigots and schedule 21+ shows for the >sake of excluding people. That would just be outright mean. Discrimination >does not respect anyone, *especially* those who become "privileged." Did you ever maybe stop to think that, if the club thinks a 21+ show will bring in more money, then maybe Fruvous would get a bigger paycheck at the end of the night? Do NOT go accusing Fruvous of "age bigotry," to use your own words. That's just Foot In Mouth and unkind and un-thought-through. FRUVOUS? Age bigots??? Have you ever SEEN them in (and after!!) a concert?? *sigh* They're in business too. Remember? This IS their livelihood. - ----------- Vika Zafrin ----------- vika@attglobal.net ----------- http://www.fruhead.com/users/vika/index.html http://www.brown.edu/Research/Decameron "Hey, ground, I'm nobody's lunch." -Eddie From Ohio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:24:20 GMT From: Ellen Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs In article <19991021021932.29086.00000313@ng-fh1.aol.com>, limezinger@aol.commmmmmmm (miss modular) wrote: > customer (noun) : one that purchases a commodity or service > > funny, i think if you buy a ticket for a show, that instantly makes > you a definite "customer". but then again, that's the way my mind > thinks. Your mind missed something important-- the subject of that part of the discussion was 21+ clubs. IOW, the under-21 people are not customers because they *can't* buy a ticket (yes, it is possible to buy a ticket to a 21+ show if you're 21minus, but it's your own responsibility to make sure you can actually use it. buyer beware). peace, ellen ([1] 'cause it's all too clear we're on our own) ********************************************* So the kids they dance and shake their bones.[1] Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:35:05 GMT From: "Kathleen Cain" Subject: Fw: Fake ID's, Club hours, etc. Sarah said: > >that has got to be the stupidest and, well, the most... ludicrous remark i've >ever read in a thread of this topic > I originated that statement and I don't appreciate either your personal attack on my opinion nor your taking my comment out of context. I was speaking generally about how people grow up. It doesn't happen at a certain age, but can happen quickly. This is what I meant. I'm sorry if you misunderstood me. I was also pointing out that this quick change occurs around the age of 20/21. Usually. NOT always. >though following that line of thought, well, you're obviously talking about 21+ >shows, because i know when i turned 18, i wasn't automatically showered with >all my adult maturity and responsibility. so that happens on your 21st >birthday eh? thanks, i'll be awaiting it. I have many friends who are young and mature. Many I could technically be old enough to be their mother. Actually, I have a couple of friends in which I AM the same age as their mother. BUT, we are not talking specifics here. While I'm sure you believe that you are mature, clubs can't make decisions on an individual basis. While parents continue to fight to protect their children from what they believe to be evil (rightly or wrongly), we will continue to have a drinking age. Kathleen (New to here, but finding it interesting at least.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:23:16 -0400 From: lawrence solomon Subject: Re: Fake ID needed : ) cookie wrote: > The venue is held entirely responsible if they serve anyone underage > alcohol. They could lose their liquor license, their livelihood, and > could possibly go to jail if they serve minors. Serving underage people > alcohol is NOT a local law, but a federal one, and one I fully support. even if they take action against the individuals who do it? I would hope that with the proper disclaimers and actions, the venue would not be held responsible if someone inside (not someone working for them, but a clubgoer) acted irresponsibly and illegally. If the bar isn't serving anyone underage and they are, wherever possible, making sure that people aren't giving alcohol to underage people (like the 9:30 Club does - they are quite strict about that because they don't want to be shut down - if they saw it and ignored it, *then* they'd have a problem) why should it be *their* problem? Hmmm... if I go to a bar, I guess it means I'm suddenly not responsible for my own actions... they are. > I grew up in Nebraska in the 70s when the drinking age was 18, but by > the time I graduated high school, there were 3 students in my class of > 200 that didn't live to receive their diplomas. They were all killed in > drinking-related accidents. It's entirely possible that those people > might be alive today if they had to find someone over the age of 21 to > buy them liquor--instead of a fellow classmate who was 18. I think having the drinking age be 21 makes it *more* likely that people will have alcohol related problems (DUI and such) because they're simply told "NO! You can't drink." so naturally they're going to go out and do it more and be more irresponsible about it. Trust leads to responsibility. The lack of trust, which is really what the drinking age is, leads to recklessness. > Quite frankly, I don't think age limitation on serving alcohol is > idiotic. Sure, it's unfortunate that you don't get to see Fruvous as > often as you'd like, but you're pretty lucky that there are so many > venues that actually have 18+ nights. I never saw a band in a bar until > I was of age because there weren't any 18+ venues. Be patient. You'll > eventually grow old and withered just like the rest of us! :-) patient? for what? > I understand your frustrations, but sometimes laws are there for a > reason. Can you *please* read the rest of this thread? I thought I had made it clear that I was almost 23 years old, and can go see Fruvous wherever I want. (well, that I can get to, anyway) - -- lawrence solomon * http://www.fruhead.com/users/zaph * zaph@fruhead.com "You knew it was true, when I held you, there were no secrets. I believed it." -Moxy Früvous, _I Will Hold On_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:08:12 GMT From: ScarletB23@aol.com Subject: Re: Bowery Ballroom >>PS-to whoever said they wanted to see Fruvous at Irving Plaza: I was defruginized there last November when they opened for the Violent Femmes<< Me too! It was a night I'll never forget. I was supposed to met my friends who got me intrested in seeing Moxy but they never made it since their car broke down. I had a great time anyway since the guys were just fantastic. Peace- Anita ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:30:00 -0400 From: "Kate Leahy" Subject: Re: 18/21+ shows >All i was saying is that maybe the band enjoys playing to shows where the >audience is in general more mature, and that is why these venues pop up. In all fairness, this really isn't a very valid argument. I've never seen the band happier then when they are interacting with little ones (Spring Gulch paper fight, anyone?) or talking to them after shows (A.J. LoCicero's anklebiter is very popular :). ~~Kate - -- Kate Leahy kleahy@loyola.edu katiewow@fruhead.com *********************************** "It's a long long road It's a big big world We are wise wise women We are giggling girls . . . " - --Ani DiFranco *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:38:12 GMT From: vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Fw: Fake ID's, Club hours, etc. Spake "Kathleen Cain" : >I was also pointing out that this quick change occurs >around the age of 20/21. Usually. NOT always. *nod* Though that may have less to do with the calendar age of a person than with where they are in their life at the moment. At the age you referenced, many people (at least, in the U.S.) graduate from college, or are close to it. Holy life change. Hope you're not scared off the newsgroup yet, Kathleen. :) - ----------- Vika Zafrin ----------- vika@attglobal.net ----------- http://www.fruhead.com/users/vika/index.html http://www.brown.edu/Research/Decameron "Hey, ground, I'm nobody's lunch." -Eddie From Ohio ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #903 ********************************************