From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #899 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Wednesday, October 20 1999 Volume 03 : Number 899 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Fake ID needed : ) [hallofeyes@aol.com (Jordan QUSAK)] Re: Fake ID needed : ) [Nate DeRose ] conan rerun... delayed. [limezinger@aol.commmmmmmm (miss modular)] Re: conan rerun... delayed. [limezinger@aol.commmmmmmm (miss modular)] Re: conan rerun... delayed. [limezinger@aol.commmmmmmm (miss modular)] One more thing about fake IDs [vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin)] Re: Fake ID needed : ) [vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin)] Re: OT: john linnell [Josh Woodward ] Re: One more thing about fake IDs [lawrence solomon ] Re: OT: john linnell ["Aleigh" ] Re: One more thing about fake IDs [vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin)] OT - our favorite strips (?) [Bridget ] Re: One more thing about fake IDs [lawrence solomon ] Re: One more thing about fake IDs ["Kate Leahy" ] Re: One more thing about fake IDs [lawrence solomon ] Re: One more thing about fake IDs ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: Fake ID needed : ) [lawrence solomon ] Re: Fake ID needed : ) [vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin)] Re: One more thing about fake IDs [vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin)] Re: One more thing about fake IDs ["Kate Leahy" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Oct 1999 04:05:13 GMT From: hallofeyes@aol.com (Jordan QUSAK) Subject: Re: Fake ID needed : ) >>Just wanted to comment on using fake IDs to get into shows. It's not a good idea. In fact, it's a really bad idea. Fruvous often plays venues with age restrictions. For an explanation of why this is, and why venues have restrictions at all, go to http://www.fruvous.com/news/FAQ. The long and short of it is, if you get caught with an ID, you can risk not only yucky fines, but a delay on your driver's license. You can also cause a lot of trouble for the club.<< I have been rejected from the bowery because of a fake ID...Notrhing happens. They just...dont let you in. They told me their were police their that night, so they had to extra careful, and if it was any other night I would have been let in. Jordan "My father calls them "grandma's cookies" but grandma's dead"-Matthew Koff "In some ways I think death stuff is often our personal writing crutch. When you run out of ideas, get out the revolver."- John Flansburgh, TMBG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:50:29 -0400 From: Nate DeRose Subject: Re: Fake ID needed : ) I agree. It's really not a big deal. If they don't buy it, you don't get in..... they're not going to call the cops because you've got a fake ID. :) I say go for it.... even give it a try if you don't have ID.... who knows, you may get lucky. Cheers, nate Jordan QUSAK wrote: > > >>Just wanted to comment on using fake IDs to get into shows. It's not a good > idea. In fact, it's a really bad idea. Fruvous often plays venues with age > restrictions. For an explanation of why this is, and why venues have > restrictions at all, go to http://www.fruvous.com/news/FAQ. The long and short > of it is, if you get caught with an ID, you can risk not only yucky fines, but > a delay on your driver's license. You can also cause a lot of > trouble for the club.<< > > I have been rejected from the bowery because of a fake ID...Notrhing happens. > They just...dont let you in. They told me their were police their that night, > so they had to extra careful, and if it was any other night I would have been > let in. > > Jordan > "My father calls them "grandma's cookies" but grandma's dead"-Matthew Koff > "In some ways I think death stuff is often our personal writing crutch. When > you run out of ideas, get out the revolver."- John Flansburgh, TMBG ------------------------------ Date: 20 Oct 1999 05:20:42 GMT From: limezinger@aol.commmmmmmm (miss modular) Subject: conan rerun... delayed. well, the rerun with fruvous on conan will be delayed if it airs at all tonight. just as a warning for you all out there who missed it the first time around... because of the braves/mets game delay, the news just came on at 1am, which means leno at 1:30, tonight's conan at 2:30, leno rerun at 3:30, and conan rerun with moxy at 4:30 (?) ... sarah linnellgirl@tmbg.org http://members.aol.com/limezinger "we're quite snobby, in the sense that we get bored easily, and we don't like music or movies that are predictable. we like things that 'bounce' in a weird fashion." - laetitia sadier ------------------------------ Date: 20 Oct 1999 06:30:57 GMT From: limezinger@aol.commmmmmmm (miss modular) Subject: Re: conan rerun... delayed. > and >conan rerun with moxy at 4:30 (?) ... correction... 4:35 to 5:35 ...(if it does run..) sarah linnellgirl@tmbg.org http://members.aol.com/limezinger "we're quite snobby, in the sense that we get bored easily, and we don't like music or movies that are predictable. we like things that 'bounce' in a weird fashion." - laetitia sadier ------------------------------ Date: 20 Oct 1999 07:28:06 GMT From: limezinger@aol.commmmmmmm (miss modular) Subject: Re: conan rerun... delayed. >well, the rerun with fruvous on conan will be delayed if it airs at all >tonight. just as a warning for you all out there who missed it the first >time >around... because of the braves/mets game delay, the news just came on >at 1am, >which means leno at 1:30, tonight's conan at 2:30, leno rerun at 3:30, and >conan rerun with moxy at 4:30 (?) ... no wait.. i messed that up. forgot about later. doesn't look like nbc's rerunning the moxy episode tonight. grr.. sarah linnellgirl@tmbg.org http://members.aol.com/limezinger "we're quite snobby, in the sense that we get bored easily, and we don't like music or movies that are predictable. we like things that 'bounce' in a weird fashion." - laetitia sadier ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:09:59 GMT From: vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: One more thing about fake IDs Suppose somehow, someway, somewhere it gets to a club that people are posting stuff like "Fake ID Needed" on Fruvous' newsgroup. Suppose (I know, small change, but *suppose*) the evening that Fruvous plays there someone gets busted and the "authorities" are there. Now, no matter what kind of trouble (mild or serious) the club gets into, what do you think the chances are that they'll invite Fruvous back anytime soon? eh. - -v - ----------- Vika Zafrin ----------- vika@attglobal.net ----------- http://www.fruhead.com/users/vika/index.html http://www.brown.edu/Research/Decameron "Hey, ground, I'm nobody's lunch." -Eddie From Ohio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:04:21 GMT From: vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Fake ID needed : ) Spake hallofeyes@aol.com (Jordan QUSAK): >I have been rejected from the bowery because of a fake ID...Notrhing happens. >They just...dont let you in. They told me their were police their that night, >so they had to extra careful, and if it was any other night I would have been >let in. Unless you follow a club's business history VERY closely, you *can* damage their status by trying to get into them with a fake ID. If a club gets caught admitting underage people when they're not supposed to be, once, they (depending on the state) may be put on probation. If they get caught twice, they get closed. Period. PLEASE think twice. It IS a big deal. There IS a reason. Like Kate, I refer you to the FAQ. - -v, heeeere we go again with this topic - ----------- Vika Zafrin ----------- vika@attglobal.net ----------- http://www.fruhead.com/users/vika/index.html http://www.brown.edu/Research/Decameron "Hey, ground, I'm nobody's lunch." -Eddie From Ohio ------------------------------ Date: 20 Oct 1999 12:10:22 GMT From: Josh Woodward Subject: Re: OT: john linnell dopeytoo wrote: : a local restaurant/venue has an upcoming listing for john linnell (tmbg) : singing state songs.... does anyone know anything about this?!! i didn't : feel like going into unfamiliar territory (tmbg site) and figured : someone here would probably know something :) It is indeed John Linnell of They Might Be Giants, his first large-scale solo effort. To date, since TMBG's last studio record, they have done: * A Flansburgh side effort (Monopuff) * An "Earlier Years" compilation of old stuff. * A live CD * An MP3-only release of new b-side material (mostly written awhile ago) * John Linnell's state songs It seems like they are at the phase in their career where they just don't have much to do together that's fresh anymore. I will admit that from what I've heard of State Songs, Linnell really did a great job. Check out the recent NPR interview he did at: http://www.tmbg.net/tdk/John_Linnell-NPR's_All_Things_Considered-10-12-99.mp3 I'd say to check it out for sure! Wish he was playing around me. :-( - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Josh Woodward joshw@fruhead.com Fruhead.Com Webmaster http://www.fruhead.com/ Personal Web Site & Tape List: http://www.fruhead.com/joshw/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:45:37 -0400 From: lawrence solomon Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs Vika Zafrin wrote: > Now, no matter what kind of trouble (mild or serious) the club gets > into, what do you think the chances are that they'll invite Fruvous back > anytime soon? Maybe that's a good thing - then they can play at a non-fascist venue. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:43:57 -0400 From: "Aleigh" Subject: Re: OT: john linnell Josh Woodward wrote in message news:7ukbfe$h4k$1@infoserver.bgsu.edu... > It seems like they are at the phase in their career where they just > don't have much to do together that's fresh anymore. !! Have you HEARD their new stuff? Thunderbird, Cyclops Rock, It's So Loud in Here, need I go on? They have a ton of wonderful new songs, just been really busy with other stuff. Aleigh - -- http://i.am/not_your_broom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:47:51 GMT From: vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs Spake lawrence solomon : >Maybe that's a good thing - then they can play at a non-fascist venue. Has nothing to do with fascism. Think about what *fascism* means. *sigh* Please think before you speak. There are still, believe it or not, people who take the word seriously. And anyway, who're you (we!) to be limiting Fruvous' venue availability? - -v - ----------- Vika Zafrin ----------- vika@attglobal.net ----------- http://www.fruhead.com/users/vika/index.html http://www.brown.edu/Research/Decameron "Hey, ground, I'm nobody's lunch." -Eddie From Ohio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:05:57 GMT From: Bridget Subject: OT - our favorite strips (?) I know a lot of people here read both Goats and Waiting For Bob... and, well, I just thought it was kinda cool that WFB is the strip of the week at goats.com. WTG, K@ and Doug! ===== over 'n' out xoxoxo bridget "Someone needs to tell Mike Ford that nachos DO NOT come in a bowl..." ~Amanda 9/19/99 (or somewhere thereabouts...) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:44:18 -0400 From: lawrence solomon Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs Vika Zafrin wrote: > Has nothing to do with fascism. Think about what *fascism* means. > *sigh* Please think before you speak. There are still, believe it or > not, people who take the word seriously. it's the figurative/common-usage kind of fascism. it's fascism with a lowercase 'f,' rather than Fascism, which is something much more specific. (at least I didn't say nazi :) (actually, in a way, the word "fascist" has little to do with "fascism" *except* when it's "Fascist" because it has taken on such a new but not completely unrelated meaning) > And anyway, who're you (we!) to be limiting Fruvous' venue availability? I think it would be nice if they played all-ages venues a little more often, especially considering that a decent portion of their fan base is under 21. - -- lawrence solomon * http://www.fruhead.com/users/zaph * zaph@fruhead.com "You knew it was true, when I held you, there were no secrets. I believed it." -Moxy Früvous, _I Will Hold On_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:18:22 -0400 From: "Kate Leahy" Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs >I think it would be nice if they played all-ages venues a little more often, >especially considering that a decent portion of their fan base is under 21. *Sigh* Wouldn't it though? Oh, wait a minute. They've only played two 21+ venues on this tour. The Fine Line and the Ram's Head. This in comparison to the multitude of all-ages festivals and venues they played all summer and much of the fall (a couple of which were free). I think it would be nice if they played in my living room once a week, 'cause I'm a poor college student who doesn't have the time or the money to travel all over the country to see them. Then again, that's a pipe dream, so I don't get concerned about it. When I'm 21, I'll go to 21+ shows. 'Til then, I'll suggest nice all-ages venues to Jude and hope that the guys can get a booking at them. And until then I'll yet again make reference to the FAQ, which has a nifty appendix item on this very subject. I'll even give you a link. http://www.fruvous.com/news/FAQ.html There ya go :). ~~Kate - -- Kate Leahy kleahy@loyola.edu katiewow@fruhead.com *********************************** "It's a long long road It's a big big world We are wise wise women We are giggling girls . . . " - --Ani DiFranco *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:27:36 -0400 From: lawrence solomon Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs "A.J. LoCicero" wrote: > As has been stated each time this topic comes up (every 6 months or so), > clubs are not imposing age restrictions because they want to be mean or > fascistic. (Fascist restrictions, BTW, would be arbitrary, like eye And I don't think that's true - it's pretty obvious to me that these clubs don't care much for people who aren't 21/18. If they did, they'd find a way to let them in to shows they want to see. And age discrimination *is* arbitrary. Really, what's the difference between someone who is 20 and 364 days old vs. someone who just turned 21? If you feel that there is no difference between those two days, then what is the difference between someone who is 20 and 364 days old vs. someone who is 20 and 363 days old? And so on. Funny, I've just proved all ages to be equivalent by induction.... :) One day cannot make a difference, but where is the cutoff? Sounds arbitrary to me... - -- lawrence solomon * http://www.fruhead.com/users/zaph * zaph@fruhead.com "You knew it was true, when I held you, there were no secrets. I believed it." -Moxy Früvous, _I Will Hold On_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:23:19 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs lawrence solomon wrote: > > Vika Zafrin wrote: > > > Now, no matter what kind of trouble (mild or serious) the club gets > > into, what do you think the chances are that they'll invite Fruvous back > > anytime soon? > > Maybe that's a good thing - then they can play at a non-fascist venue. As has been stated each time this topic comes up (every 6 months or so), clubs are not imposing age restrictions because they want to be mean or fascistic. (Fascist restrictions, BTW, would be arbitrary, like eye color or last name, and would be based on a premise that some people are inherently better and more deserving than others. Age doesn't fit that criteria.) They have those restrictions to help them protect their PRIVILEGE to sell alcohol (by means of which they make most of their money). In some places the law may require them to exclude those under a certain age. In others there is not a legal requirement, but the venue feels that this is a measure that they have to take to reduce the chance that they will serve someone under age (which is VERY illegal everywhere in the US and Canada). If you don't like that situation (as I don't) then the only way to fix it is to get the laws and the attitudes of our society to change. If you do that, and bars STILL exclude underage people (which they wouldn't--Duh!) THEN and only THEN could you you call them fascict. Personally I don't have an opinion on use of fake IDs one way or the other, but I do object to the blame the venue, or blame the band mindset. It is YOUR society that is to blame for this situation, not bars or bands or fascists. A.J. - -- _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:20:34 -0400 From: lawrence solomon Subject: Re: Fake ID needed : ) Kate Leahy wrote: > Just wanted to comment on using fake IDs to get into shows. It's not a good > idea. In fact, it's a really bad idea. Fruvous often plays venues with age > restrictions. For an explanation of why this is, and why venues have > restrictions at all, go to http://www.fruvous.com/news/FAQ. The long and Y'know, I haven't posted my response to that section of the FAQ before because it hasn't been very relevant (i.e. responding to a FAQ post is kinda weird) but now it seems to be the topic of discussion, and I'm going to address a few points that I noticed in that explanation. (and no, I'm not responding specifically to your message, just using your mention of the FAQ as a jumping off point :) For the time being, I'm going to give a counterpoint to the "over 18" argument, since that's what the issue at hand seems to be with the Bowery. The idea of an underage person taking the "spot" of an of age person does not apply here, because even at an 18+ show, there will be plenty of people not buying drinks. (for the record, I'm almost 23 and I don't drink - the clubs must hate people like me) If the venues truly cared about the audience of a given band, they'd make some provision for everyone who wanted to get in to do so. Whether that means having a cover charge for those who are underage (which I'm sure, assuming it were reasonable, most people would be willing to pay if that meant seeing their favorite band instead of sitting at home while all their friends who are a few days older got to see the show) or just opening it up for that one show, I think it could probably be arranged somehow. Especially if it's just for one show - even if they come out a little bit in the red or break even for *one* show but turn a profit on all the others, they still come out ahead. Economically speaking, the 18+ thing doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense - - if an 18-20 year old drinks, it's still illegal, and the club can still get in trouble for it. I don't see a reason why they'd have to pay different insurance for 18+ and all-ages. Then again, the explanation in the FAQ seems to apply to clubs where they don't necessarily expect to sell out a lot of shows. From what I know of the Bowery Ballroom, it is *specifically* a concert venue, and not so much a "club." As in, they're not likely to get random people coming in off the street, but they also seem much less likely to get acts where they risk being in the position of selling too few tickets to break even. (then again, this could be misinformation... I'm only saying it based on what I've heard of events there, having never actually seen a show there) As for the 21+ shows... most venues have a balcony. Graffiti in Pittsburgh forces the under 21 people to sit up there, because the bar is downstairs, and has a rule that you can't take drinks upstairs. Some other venues probably have the reverse. (Metropol, also a Pittsburgh venue, comes to mind - you must be 21 to go upstairs) Yeah, it sounds like segregation by age/want-of-drink, but it's certainly better than telling people they can't see a band just because they had the misfortune to be born when they did. if there is no balcony, they can give out those wristbands that you have to rip to take off. it's not a foolproof method, since they can't check everyone, but the threat of being caught might be enough to deter at least a few people. (the 9:30 Club uses hand stamps, and before every show someone comes out and explains to the people in line that if you're caught drinking underage *or* caught giving a drink to someone underage, you'll be kicked out, no questions asked - and they *do* check. I've seen it) really, though, shouldn't a club be ok as long as they keep themselves covered? i.e. if someone is drinking underage but does so responsibly (as responsible as one can be when they're violating the local laws) and also doesn't get caught, is any harm done? likewise, if someone does get caught, and the club takes action (i.e. kicking them out) are they not covered? what about disclaimers? put up a sign that says "we cannot be responsible for underage drinking" and if someone *does* do something stupid while drunk and underage, the club is not responsible. and so on. it just seems that there should be so many better ways to deal with the problem than age discrimination, which really is what this comes down to, even if that's denied in the FAQ. - -- lawrence solomon * http://www.fruhead.com/users/zaph * zaph@fruhead.com "You knew it was true, when I held you, there were no secrets. I believed it." -Moxy Früvous, _I Will Hold On_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:38:40 GMT From: vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Fake ID needed : ) Spake lawrence solomon : >really, though, shouldn't a club be ok as long as they keep themselves >covered? i.e. if someone is drinking underage but does so responsibly (as >responsible as one can be when they're violating the local laws) and also >doesn't get caught, is any harm done? Legally, YES. As of today, 10/20/1999, your opinion or mine on this issue (which, by the way, happen to coincide) do NOT matter, where the legal side of whether a bar/club stays open is concerned. >it just seems that there should be so many better ways to deal with the >problem than age discrimination, which really is what this comes down to, even >if that's denied in the FAQ. You wanna change the laws? You want to change this country's f****g idiotic attitude toward alcohol? Go right ahead. I'll be right behind you. But, as has been pointed out, do not go blaming clubs for this. Or the FAQ, for that matter. Especially clubs nice enough (and smart enough) to let Fruvous play there. - ----------- Vika Zafrin ----------- vika@attglobal.net ----------- http://www.fruhead.com/users/vika/index.html http://www.brown.edu/Research/Decameron "Hey, ground, I'm nobody's lunch." -Eddie From Ohio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:43:12 GMT From: vika@attglobal.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs Spake lawrence solomon : >it's the figurative/common-usage kind of fascism. it's fascism with a >lowercase 'f,' rather than Fascism, which is something much more specific. >(at least I didn't say nazi :) Ahem. You insisted on rubbing salt into a wound. Twice. Hadn't I been clear on this?.... Here's what Merriam-Webster has to say about fascism: - ---------- Function: noun Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces Date: 1921 1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition 2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control - ---------- I would hazard that you have not had any run-ins with dictatorship in this country, as it pertains to club/bar admittance. Call it anything you like, Lawrence, but not only is it NOT fascism, it's getting offensive when you post without doing your research, and it belittles the horror associated with the word and the concept. - ----------- Vika Zafrin ----------- vika@attglobal.net ----------- http://www.fruhead.com/users/vika/index.html http://www.brown.edu/Research/Decameron "Hey, ground, I'm nobody's lunch." -Eddie From Ohio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:44:58 -0400 From: "Kate Leahy" Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs >And I don't think that's true - it's pretty obvious to me that these clubs >don't care much for people who aren't 21/18. If they did, they'd find a way >to let them in to shows they want to see. Okay, that's just a little ridiculous. Who are you to say that a club owner doesn't care about underage people? I'm sure he cares passionately. Or maybe he doesn't. That's irrelevant, though, because it has nothing to do with hir profession, which is operating a club. In order to ensure that his business remains open and continues to make money, he has to levy age restrictions. It sucks, but it's a fact of life. He/She also has *zero* responsibility to "help" anyone see the show they want to see. Seeing concerts is a priviledge, just like selling alcohol is. Früvous tries to find venues that fit their needs. There just aren't many all-ages clubs that do this. By limiting themselves to all-ages venues, Früvous cuts out many cities where they could break a lot of ground and establish a decent fan base. We're also forgetting that as much as the guys care about their fans, they have to eat. If that means playing an 18/21+ venue every now and then, I'd rather that than to see them go bankrupt. >And age discrimination *is* arbitrary. Really, what's the difference between >someone who is 20 and 364 days old vs. someone who just turned 21? The difference is that the person who just turned 21 is now permitted by law to buy alcohol in all 50 states. The person who is 20 364/365 is not. There's a rather significant legalistic difference there. Perhaps the law is arbitrary, but the individual club's age restriction certainly isn't. >One day cannot make a difference, but where is the cutoff? Sounds arbitrary >to me... Unfortunately, it does. Just like one week makes a difference, and one year makes a difference. The *law* says that you can't drink until you are 21. Bars that hold concerts tend to make the majority of their money from alcohol sales. Therefore, they profit more from people who buy alcohol than people who don't. They could just sell alcohol to everyone regardless of age, but then they'd get shut down, and it was pointless in the first place. They could take a cut of merchandise sales, but bands *despise* that. They could raise ticket prices, but *we* despise that. Or they could have an age-restriction, the choice that normally pisses off the least number of people. You have to wait for some things in life. Driving, voting - this is another one. You can whine about it, or you can do something to change it and until it's changed deal with it. The choice is yours. ~~Kate - -- Kate Leahy kleahy@loyola.edu katiewow@fruhead.com *********************************** "It's a long long road It's a big big world We are wise wise women We are giggling girls . . . " - --Ani DiFranco *********************************** lawrence solomon wrote in message <380DD158.10F31487@fruhead.com>... >"A.J. LoCicero" wrote: > >> As has been stated each time this topic comes up (every 6 months or so), >> clubs are not imposing age restrictions because they want to be mean or >> fascistic. (Fascist restrictions, BTW, would be arbitrary, like eye > >And I don't think that's true - it's pretty obvious to me that these clubs >don't care much for people who aren't 21/18. If they did, they'd find a way >to let them in to shows they want to see. > >And age discrimination *is* arbitrary. Really, what's the difference between >someone who is 20 and 364 days old vs. someone who just turned 21? > >If you feel that there is no difference between those two days, then what is >the difference between someone who is 20 and 364 days old vs. someone who is >20 and 363 days old? And so on. Funny, I've just proved all ages to be >equivalent by induction.... :) > >One day cannot make a difference, but where is the cutoff? Sounds arbitrary >to me... >-- > lawrence solomon * http://www.fruhead.com/users/zaph * zaph@fruhead.com > "You knew it was true, when I held you, there were no secrets. > I believed it." -Moxy Früvous, _I Will Hold On_ ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #899 ********************************************