From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #840 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Wednesday, September 22 1999 Volume 03 : Number 840 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Food for thought on Tapers [Josh Woodward ] More on Who Wrote What [Ellen ] Nov. 24 Show (Was Itinerary) [Melanie ] Re: second Conan song [Chad Maloney ] Re: Food for thought on Tapers [Chad Maloney ] Re: *itinerary* [bbwminors@aol.com (BBWMinors)] Re: *itinerary* [Chad Maloney ] Re: Food for thought on Tapers [Ellen ] Re: Food for thought on Tapers [Chad Maloney ] Re: Question about banter (was Comments on Detroit 9/17) [Nate DeRose ] Re: Food for thought on Tapers ["Kate Leahy" ] Re: Food for thought on Tapers [vika@ibm.net (Vika Zafrin)] Re: Question about banter (was Comments on Detroit 9/17) [Heybun@aol.com] Re: second Conan song [Aryn - Marietta Eaton ] Moxy Fruvous Webcast?? [coondog42@my-deja.com] Re: Arab names [nicole.twn.is@ana.ng.at.tmbg.org (Nicole the Wonder Nerd)] Re: Moxy Fruvous Webcast?? [Ellen ] Re: DC area venues ["Carey Farrell" ] Re: DC area venues [Ellen ] Re: *itinerary* [srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com)] All of the Above [Amy Walker ] Re: Food for thought on Tapers ["Ken Perschke" ] Re: Food for thought on Tapers [srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Sep 1999 13:55:11 GMT From: Josh Woodward Subject: Re: Food for thought on Tapers Lori at fruhead dot com wrote: : 3) I doubt I'm the only one who knows of specific cases where the band has let : it be known that it does not wish a particular performance to be distributed, : only to find that it has been. The example I know of specifically is the show : last fall where they debuted "Grudge". They specifically requested it not be : taped, as it and other songs were works in progress, yet soon afterward several : people who hadn't been at the show knew the words, the tune ... clear evidence : of at least one taper not respecting the band's intellectual property. I'll jump in here. I taped this show from the soundboard, and distributed it quite widely. I got Cal's clearance before the show (of course, since it was a board patch), and I also got Jian's clearance to distribute the tape after the show. I asked him if he wanted Grudge to be snipped off, and he said that it was my call and didn't have strong feelings either way. So the tape circulated. It wasn't until around two months later, when the show was already heavily circulated, that I was told by a non-Fruvous member that Jian didn't want it circulated. So the show was taped and *distributed* with the band's blessing, at least originally. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Josh Woodward, CheEsy Fru. joshw@fruhead.com Web Site and Tape List: http://www.fruhead.com/joshw/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:09:41 GMT From: Ellen Subject: More on Who Wrote What OK.. *deep breath* The other day, I said that I had a theory behind why I couldn't see ID as being written by Mike. Here it is... My theory is based entirely on lyrics and as far as band credit goes, I don't mind if they prefer to say they all had a hand in writing any given song. I am quite sure this is true. But with the exception of songs like Horseshoes, which is very obviously a lyrical collaboration, writing styles do show through in their songs. That's where my theory comes from. Keep in mind when you read this that it's based upon a limited sample size of songs. I didn't compare and contrast every single one, just the ones that stood out in my mind. You might take a different set of songs and come up with an entirely different theory. The idea is, Mike and Murray both paint pictures to tell a story. Mike paints with a wide brush and great sweeping strokes. He sets a scene immediately and then sets about giving you details to color it in. My example of this is Sahara (which necessitates that Sahara be a song written by Mike ;). From the first line, you immediately have a picture of a desert scene, and then perhaps a grand hotel bar where the golden boy holds court. He fills in details as he goes along: pride was strong, friends were true, it cooled at night, etc etc. The story goes on. Murray, OTOH, tells you a story by painting a lot of tiny little pictures and letting you put them together and decide what the bigger picture is. Like one of those mosaics that is made up of hundreds of tiny images. My example for this is Love Set Fire (see above parenthetical expression). Small paper cranes, wallpaper stains. Love letters bent, houses of jokers and kings, etc etc. Little incongruous pictures that add up to a story. OK, I’ve thought a little more about it now and I have a few more data points to add. If we consider a Mike song as telling one contiguous story that is usually set up right from the beginning, then the following Mike-led songs fit that: BJ (story is set up with the first verse, particularly the line “Romeo found the balcony too high, ended up with second billing"). Darlington (story set up with the line “8 to 4 on the assembly floor, watchin' V6 Mercs slide through.”). Laika (the title sets up the space fantasy; the unrequited love part comes through with “But still on earth I thrive... and you pretend I'm not alive”). Down From Above fits, I think; it tells one cohesive story, but I can’t really pin the story setup to one line or even one verse. Same for On Her Doorstep. Half as Much fits; it's set up by the line "imprisoned by the situation." Splatter Splatter doesn't really fit; there's no hook line or lines that set it all up. If we consider a Murray song to be a series of small images that must be viewed as a group to complete the song’s meaning, then these Murray-led songs fit: Bittersweet, definitely (we see soldiers, planes, rain, a boy with a bloated belly; these scenes don’t make up Bittersweet until they’re taken together). Sad Today (again, coffee, murder, a hat, a rotting banana-- what is their significance until you put them together?). Bed and Breakfast, to an extent (bigger images in that case, but they still need each other to tell the story). Incredible Medicine Show is an example that doesn't fit. See what I mean? This is why I have a hard time seeing ID as Mike-like. Red and gold streamers. Hot dog stand. Trees bending. A letter stuffed into a coat pocket. Disjoint images that you have to collect into a story. Anyway, that's the gist of it. The reason I hesitated to post it is this: if the general rule I've been lead to assume, of lead-vocal- prolly-wrote-the-lyrics, doesn't apply, then my theory falls apart because I don't know who wrote *anything*. Feel free to jump in and discuss this. I'll repeat again that these are just my own (possibly incoherent) thoughts and my theory alone. I could be 100% wrong. I probably am. It's all based on my perception. YMMV. (Which spell-checks to "YUMMY.") peace, ellen (yes, in fact, i do have a theory about jian's and dave's songwriting, too. glad you asked. that's a story for another day.) *************************************** Requesting some enlightenment... Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:02:31 GMT From: Melanie Subject: Nov. 24 Show (Was Itinerary) Joe Navratil wrote: >> [Rochester is] only a six hour drive away, on effectively a Friday-ish Wednesday. So it's really^5 really^6 good for me, too.<< Just a public service announcement for all Frutrippers. Remember that the Wednesday before and the Sunday after Thanksgiving are the busiest travel days in the year in the U.S. Some interstates (like I 95 in NJ) become parking lots. However, Joe, if you're cutting across Canada, traffic might be less of a problem, except that in Canada it won't be a Friday-ish Wednesday. Personally, the changed date probably won't work for me which (expletive deleted), but if it turns out that it does, I already know that I'll need an extra 2 hours travel time from Cincinnati to Rochester having made the same trip last year. Just a "heads up." melanie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:47:06 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: second Conan song Jonnnn27 wrote: > > << Conan >> > << Fruvous >> > > hey everybody, i must've missed the first post...when are they gonna be on? October 12th. FDC lists it on the Tour Dates page. Here's FDC's info bit for it: http://www.fruvous.com/upcoming.html#991012 - Chad ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:18:29 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: Food for thought on Tapers Ross Hendry wrote: > Forgive my addled brain, but couldn't you plug into the soundboard and > negate the need for mics? Yes, but to some people this doesn't produce the best possible recording. It also makes work for Cal, Front of House Engineer, because he has to hook you up. Personally, I don't like soundboards. Too much vocals and no crowd is kinda disconcerting. Plus the chance of off-mic songs that will be completely missed. - Chad ------------------------------ Date: 22 Sep 1999 15:29:21 GMT From: bbwminors@aol.com (BBWMinors) Subject: Re: *itinerary* Chad lightly smacked me up around my cyber-head, probably deservedly so for my thoughts on 930 vs a "Birchmere-like setting" (please note, I didn't necessarily say Birchmere, she backpedaled so furiously she worked off at least a pound off her butt) ... (oops, can I still say "butt"???) ... Actually, I loved the 930 experience myself -- hung out at Stage Mur for about three hours but comfortably leaning on the stage so no sweat (hey, KateB, you can come and lean on me and throw your arm around my neck to take weight off knee if you want!!!!!!!!) ... just saying that both situations have their advantages. Also, I'm a New York City born-and-bred chick who lives outside DC now so neighborhoods aren't that scary to me, but I know that some others might have been more put off than I would be ... Have I waffled enough or do I need more syrup? QL (whose main waffles on are her thighs) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:44:36 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: *itinerary* BBWMinors wrote: > I would be willing to trade the opportunity to dance for the opportunity to be > comfortable, for one thing, and would give up the "fun" aspect for the > acoustics and other perks of a Birchmere-like setting. What, the bad service? *grin* (if roB! still read this, he'd of enjoyed the comment immensely). I loved the 9:30 Club show from my seat right above the sound board in the balcony. The sound rocked and the band itself was enjoying a rocking out show. I, for one, would love to see them there again now that they know what kind of place it is and what kind of show to make there. > Not to mention the neighborhood, LOL ... My car was parked on the street near there the whole night and we walked about 1/2 mile to get to an incredible Ethiopian restaurant from there. Wasn't bad to me, and I'm a midwest boy *grin* - Chad ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:19:22 GMT From: Ellen Subject: Re: Food for thought on Tapers In article <37e84469.17999166@news3.ibm.net>, vika@fruhead.com wrote: > taper truly not care whether those present at the show enjoyed it or > not. Come to think of it, there's only been one such show that I've > witnessed. > He had never done that before, as far as I was aware. To anyone, > taping-related or not. You hit it right there, I think, without even meaning to. That has nothing to do with taping. It might have been a taper who called those women on their behavior, but *anyone* around them would have been justified. That's not an example of a taper not caring whether those around him enjoyed the show. That's an example of a group of women not caring, and the person in front of them (who happened to be a taper) blessing them out for it. You go, boy! ;) > "Please, rename the moons of Jupiter to John, Paul, George and Ringo. > I've spent my brain and can't retain this interstellar lingo. > Rename the moons of Jupiter, the Beatles sure won't mind. > I'll do my best to ace this test and pass your course this time..." > -Michael Clem / EFO hee hee. I like Mike. I saw Mike-n-Robbie in Bethesda a month or so ago, and what a wonderful show. Their moms were there that night. Mike joked that people always told him he sounded just like James Taylor, which elicited lots of laughs, so he said, "OK, really they say Kermit." peace, ellen (their 2nd grade teacher was also in the audience that night; she introduced herself to me while in line for the bathroom.) *************************************** Requesting some enlightenment... Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:32:05 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: Food for thought on Tapers Frances Meale wrote: > > I feel he is justified in > > feeling the way he does. > > It just seems odd to me (again, an opinion) that one would put more value on taping a > show for posterity than on caring if another person actually present at that show was > enjoying it. But it seems odd to me that you seem to expect people to show up 5 minutes before the show and be ushered to their pristine spot directly in front of Jian so they can get the most out of the show. That seems to me to be a double standard. No matter whether it's your first time at a show or your 75th, you have control over where you stand and what you do. You need to get there at an early enough time to get the quality seat you think you deserve. If that's at the back near the bar, well, maybe your version of early isn't as early as the person who wants to drool on Dave's foot pedals. Yes, people at their first show may not know that they want to drool on Dave's foot pedals yet, but I really don't think the crowd is going to reverently part in the middle to allow the first time concertgoer their choice of spots. They are going to have to live with the hole they dug for themselves by standing in the best spot possible that they can find when they get there. If there's a post in the way at a show and they get there late enough that they have to stand behind, I sure hope they don't expect the load-bearing post to spontanteously move so they can see. If there's a 7 foot tall guy standing there and you stand behind him, you stood behind him. I'm guessing because someone from the audience is creating this 1/2" line in the way, it's different in some people's minds. But for some tapers, taping the show is what they enjoy. I'm not one of these mind you so I'm not gonna argue this well. I set my deck up and watch the show and try not to even notice I'm taping through out because it distracts me from why I'm really there. > I think the taping/archiving activities have value, but perhaps it's good not to lose > sight of the enjoyment of others actually present at a live show. That's just my > perspective. A given person's personal enjoyment of the show is mostly the responsibility of that person. If everyone at a show had to consider ever other person at the show before they did anything, they'd all come out of it with massive headaches. If I'm standing in the middle of the crowd and I want a buy a drink and I see a waiter close by, I'm gonna get his attention and get my beer. Oh, sorry, did the waiter have to make his way through the crowd and obstruct your view for 4 seconds? Oh, sorry, did my asking for a Bass interrupt your favorite part of When She Talks? At some point, you have to take control over the situation. Aren't we blowing this out of proportion slightly? It's a 1/2" pole. Move a couple inches left or right and it will be between Jian and Mike so you can see everything. More than 2/3 of the shows I've been to, there have been no mic stands. Of those remaining, maybe 5 or 6 of them the taper had to setup in the middle of the audience because of the configuration of the venue and when that happened, the taper got there early and setup so that people new what was up and what they were standing behind and had ample chance to move to a better spot. I don't understand what more you can ask than this. Anything more to me, would be borderline unreasonable. - Chad ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:52:17 -0400 From: Nate DeRose Subject: Re: Question about banter (was Comments on Detroit 9/17) Speaking of which... the first time I saw Rocky Horror Picture Show, I watched it with my Mom. :) I was about 13 or 14? *That* was a tad uncomfortable. hehehe nate Ross Hendry wrote: > > Just as an afterthough, I would happily watch a film full of swearing > with my parents or go to a show but I would never, ever watch Chasing > Amy with them! Weird huh? > > Ross > It's the Galaxies Greatest Comic, > Now check out it's web site! > http://www.cybergoth.net/tuws/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:49:05 -0400 From: Nate DeRose Subject: Re: Food for thought on Tapers Yeah.. I'd like to second this. I don't think I've ever heard a SBD that I thought was worth listening to... sounds too sterile... vocals too high, etc...(like chad said). Also, as Chad said, if Cal is in a pissy mood, for whatever reason, or is really busy setting up... I'm not comfortable bothering him for a board patch. And hey, if I'd been patched off the SBD at the Ark, I wouldn't have gotten recordings of the MANY off-mic songs they did there.... I actually had to keep swiveling my mics around to get them as they ran about the room. (which was pretty damned fun, actually... ) hehehehhe Oh, and incidentally.... due to the assigned seating, I did have my mic stand set up in the middle of the room for the second Ark show..... I put my stand up.. and I immediately asked the people behind me, "hey... is this going to be in your way at all?" They said, "naw... it's no problem." And they were all of about a foot behind it..... now, if my mic stand doesn't create a visual problem for someone a foot behind it... I doubt it's going to for someone who's even further behind. :) Cheers, nate Chad Maloney wrote: > > Ross Hendry wrote: > > Forgive my addled brain, but couldn't you plug into the soundboard and > > negate the need for mics? > > Yes, but to some people this doesn't produce the best possible recording. > It also makes work for Cal, Front of House Engineer, because he has > to hook you up. Personally, I don't like soundboards. Too much vocals > and no crowd is kinda disconcerting. Plus the chance of off-mic > songs that will be completely missed. > > - Chad ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:56:33 -0400 From: "Kate Leahy" Subject: Re: Food for thought on Tapers >You certainly could. IF you have the right wires for it. Which are >quite expensive, as I understand it. Of course, they're probably not as >expensive as some of the mics you'll see at Frushows. :) . . . and occasionally the soundboard is inaccessible to tapers. Also, according to Jason Reiser (who I trust about such things), audience recordings are normally of better quality than soundboard recordings. Well, at least his are :). ~~Kate - -- Kate Leahy kleahy@loyola.edu katiewow@fruhead.com *********************************** "It's a long long road It's a big big world We are wise wise women We are giggling girls . . . " - --Ani DiFranco *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:11:05 GMT From: vika@ibm.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Food for thought on Tapers Spake Chad Maloney : >If there's a 7 foot tall guy standing there and >you stand behind him, you stood behind him. Actually, most 7 foot tall guys I've found myself standing behind usually let me either go stand in front of them (goodness knows, I won't obscure *their* view) or stand beside them. But only when/if I asked them to, nicely. >Aren't we blowing this out of proportion slightly? You noticed! :) - -v - ----- Vika Zafrin ----- vika@fruhead.com ----- http://www.fruhead.com/users/vika/index.html "Please, rename the moons of Jupiter to John, Paul, George and Ringo. I've spent my brain and can't retain this interstellar lingo. Rename the moons of Jupiter, the Beatles sure won't mind. I'll do my best to ace this test and pass your course this time..." -Michael Clem / EFO ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:47:49 GMT From: Heybun@aol.com Subject: Re: Question about banter (was Comments on Detroit 9/17) In a message dated 9/22/99 12:05:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nated@earth.goddard.edu writes: << Speaking of which... the first time I saw Rocky Horror Picture Show, I watched it with my Mom. :) I was about 13 or 14? *That* was a tad uncomfortable. >> Try watching "Wild at Heart" with your mom... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:03:38 GMT From: Aryn - Marietta Eaton Subject: Re: second Conan song I just thought of something. Sometimes bands do get 2 songs on Conan. He'll hold up the CD and introduce them, they'll play their song, he'll wander over and talk to them for a minute and then they'll play an other song under the closing credits. Aryn, who's thoughts on last night's Minneapolis show will be posted soon === Aryn - Marietta Eaton replay to ~lanna@fruhead.com Caelfind ni Mullen (called Alanna) Chatalaine, shire of Innersea Self profrssed Star Wars, U2, and Moxy Fruvous Fanatic "Last week has now been offically CANCELLED!" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:59:03 GMT From: coondog42@my-deja.com Subject: Moxy Fruvous Webcast?? Does anyone know if this is current and is going to happen, I just ran across it on the web... http://onnow.com/excite/events/event11059.htmpl?x=44&y=7 If so... cool! - -Mark Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:16:06 GMT From: nicole.twn.is@ana.ng.at.tmbg.org (Nicole the Wonder Nerd) Subject: Re: Arab names On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:51:10 -0500, someone who looked like "Zainab" whispered: >Riyadh...which is a male name but still is awesome! Um... Isn't this the capital of Saudi Arabia? - --nicole twn *** "Some people think I'm neurotic and all, but I'm not; I just like to think about things over and over and over again..."--Eddie From Ohio Visit Nicolopolis! http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~carlsonn Reply-to address is INCORRECT! Think of it as an intelligence test. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:07:22 GMT From: Ellen Subject: Re: Moxy Fruvous Webcast?? In article <7sb1sf$hgt$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, coondog42@my-deja.com wrote: > Does anyone know if this is current and is going to happen, I just ran > across it on the web... > > http://onnow.com/excite/events/event11059.htmpl?x=44&y=7 Unfortunately, it happened already. It was 10/10/98. Fortunately, it's a great show and you can still download it. There's a link to it off FDC. peace, ellen (be sure you get the audio and not just the video. the vid version is missing the encores which are waaaay worth hearing.) *************************************** Requesting some enlightenment... Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:28:02 GMT From: "Carey Farrell" Subject: Re: DC area venues ellen wrote: >I'd still love to see Fruvous play at the Barns. I don't know what >else I >can do to make it happen at this point, except hire the band >myself and >raise the money myself. I know! A bake sale! Even >better would be a big >multi-band show; say, Fruvous, EFO, the >Nields, DaVinci's Notebook, >whoever. That would be a good lineup >for the Filene Center (that's the >outdoor ampitheater at Wolf >Trap). We should start lobbying now for next >summer. ;) Whoo-hoo! That's the best idea I've heard all day. Hey, my school choir went to Italy 2 years ago on bake-sale money. It could happen. :) I'll also jump on the bandwagon to have the DC-area show myself. They can perform in the big field behind my house. My fundamentalist Christian next-door neighbors won't mind, really! Carey http://www.angelfire.com/md/goovie ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:56:16 GMT From: Ellen Subject: Re: DC area venues In article <19990921234842.16240.00000723@ng-fw1.aol.com>, bbwminors@aol.com (BBWMinors) wrote: > Count me in for whatever it takes to get that lineup into the Barns, as > long as Moxy headlines For a lineup like the one I gave, I think we'd need the Filene Center (the outdoor part). With all those spiffy bands-- all of whom have a following in this area-- we'd have trouble keeping the number of tickets to 350, which is the capacity of the Barns. The upside, more people can come, more money for the bands, picnics on the lawn. The downside, we'd miss the incredible (so I'm told) acoustics of the Barns, which was kind of the point of wanting Fruvous to play there in the first place. ;) Anyway, that was like, my fantasy lineup. Or one of them (there's a separate one for jambands too). It'd probably never happen. HEY!! ARE YOU GUYS LISTENING?? WE REALLY WANT YOU TO PLAY WOLF TRAP! peace, ellen (can't hurt, can it?) *************************************** Requesting a show at Wolf Trap. Or, y'know, my living room. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Sep 1999 18:13:17 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com) Subject: Re: *itinerary* Debs told Mike to stop whining, and then ladywench said: >Ok . . . I'LL whine. I bought my non-refundable flight tickets for Friday >morning to get to the Rochester show. Do we need to call in Jian and his Sharpie here? ;) - -- Lori, sympathizing, really. ************************* Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:59:17 -0400 From: Amy Walker Subject: All of the Above I read, I listen, I attend concerts and have done a bit of analysis on the typical fruvous participant. Most often, the people in the front are what you all would call "fruheads". They know every song, every band member and stay in the arena until they have met or seen one or more of the band members after the show. These people are the experts on what is fruvous. My question to these people is: "How do you feel when you imagine Moxy Fruvous as a big time, stadium playing band that never comes out after shows for fear of being swamped by the masses?" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:40:12 -0400 From: "Ken Perschke" Subject: Re: Food for thought on Tapers > Yes, but to some people this doesn't produce the best possible recording. > It also makes work for Cal, Front of House Engineer, because he has > to hook you up. Personally, I don't like soundboards. Too much vocals > and no crowd is kinda disconcerting. Plus the chance of off-mic > songs that will be completely missed. Actually, what I prefer are board/audience mixes! Best of both worlds! Ken ------------------------------ Date: 22 Sep 1999 18:39:43 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com) Subject: Re: Food for thought on Tapers vika said: >Actually, most 7 foot tall guys I've found myself standing behind >usually let me either go stand in front of them (goodness knows, I won't >obscure *their* view) or stand beside them. But only when/if I asked >them to, nicely. Exactly. You can't expect people to *notice* you've got a problem with something regarding their presence when they're busy concentrating on their own stuff. But if you politely bring a problem to their attention, usually they're more than happy to try to accommodate, especially if it doesn't impact on them nearly as much as you show it's impacting on you. So ask nicely if you could squeeze your petite self in front of the person/object in your sightline, or if he/she/it could be moved slightly. But don't just assume *they* *should* notice what's bothering you and change it without your even piping up. That's just unrealistic in any setting, not only concerts. And as Chad has pointed out, the other person *did* arrive and stake his claim on the space first. Like it or not, that's a standard, accepted way of claiming non-reserved, non-owned items -- anything from special sale merchandise to seating at a restaurant -- in this society. - -- Lori ******************* ask and ye shall receive ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #840 ********************************************