From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #791 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Monday, September 6 1999 Volume 03 : Number 791 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Thornhill = Beatles [msavo@aol.com (MSavo)] Re: Down From Above video (was: Re: IMPORTANT INFO [srm9988n@aol.comicre] Re: Down From Above video ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: Down From Above video (was: Re: IMPORTANT INFO [Raenfaerie@aol.com] Re: Sappy? [dstbunnny@aol.com (DstBunnny)] Re: Wood typos ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: Down From Above video (was: Re: IMPORTANT INFO ["A.J. LoCicero" ] With all this talk about MPG... [ctyner@my-deja.com (Adam Tyner)] Re: Wood typos [jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7)] Re: OT: Dark Crystal (was Re: Wal Mart as the trupeter of the apocalypse (was Re: NOW Magazine this week) [] Re: Fruvous at the Sidetrack Cafe [Queen Lisa ] Cleveland and BG [YOURSLICE@aol.com] Re: Ashley MacIsaac [limezinger@aol.commmmmmmm (my friend goo)] Re: Thornhill = Beatles [serra44@aol.com (Jill Friedman)] Re: Cleveland and BG [Josh Woodward ] Re: Jian webpage and my webpage [FruCake1@aol.com] Re: Jian webpage and my webpage [FruCake1@aol.com] Re: Wood typos [LSan497884@aol.com] Re: Jian webpage and my webpage [saphiracat@birdlover.com] Re: OT: Grammar (was: Wood typos) [LSan497884@aol.com] Hee hee hee hooooo..... (semi-OT) [jbardhan@demon.ceh.servtech.com (Neil ] Re: Moxy Fruvous and Dune! [jkpolk@ntplx.net (Andrea Krause)] Re: Down From Above video (was: Re: IMPORTANT INFO [vika@fruhead.com (Vi] Re: Ashley MacIsaac [vika@fruhead.com (Vika Zafrin)] OT: Grammar (was Re: Wood typos) [Loren Becker ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 06 Sep 1999 04:20:05 GMT From: msavo@aol.com (MSavo) Subject: Re: Thornhill = Beatles Yeah, I agree Thornhill has a Beatles feel but any band that sings harmonies and writes good melodies is always gonna be compared to The Beatles (no bad thing in my ears!) Chappo "We're not so much staying away as not coming here" - Ron Nasty ------------------------------ Date: 06 Sep 1999 04:08:26 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com) Subject: Re: Down From Above video (was: Re: IMPORTANT INFO Lawrence said: >But as long as we're talking about songs from Wood, let's not forget ST, OG, >NDR, and OHD... OTOH, maybe we should keep it to one song at a time. Lawrence, how *could* you forget BaB? - -- Lori ****************** really rfb now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:35:20 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: Down From Above video saphiracat@birdlover.com wrote: > > OK, now here's the $50,000 question: > Where can someone like me (who lives in NJ) see the Moxy Früvous videos? I know they have 8 of them, but where can I see them? Chad, is this in the FAQ? We keep getting asked. But since you asked, here's the answer: The vids were a prize for 12 stamps on the old fruhead card (not frumiles) There were MANY people who got 12 stamps, so there are quite a few copies of the tape floating around out there. You have to find one of these people who has access to 2 VCRs, befriend them, and get them to make you a copy. At present this is virtually the only way to see the videos. A.J. - -- Mariaweb last updated 5/13/99. See Maria Louise in all her... erm... Glory? Visit MariaWeb at http://members.aol.com/marilou99/ _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:41:24 GMT From: Raenfaerie@aol.com Subject: Re: Down From Above video (was: Re: IMPORTANT INFO That's the thing ... that makes me so sad. :) No really, :( There's no way in creation I can get to Toronto in February, so I think I'll sit here and cry. - -mm- "do what he do to be happy" > Other than that ... you can > always plan on seeing them in TO next February (assuming there is in fact a > FrüCon III). ------------------------------ Date: 06 Sep 1999 04:32:42 GMT From: dstbunnny@aol.com (DstBunnny) Subject: Re: Sappy? Meghan wrote: >i remember when i was younger i once wept uncontrollably through all of >Snoopy Come Home. Um... you aren't the only one who's ever done that. Well, it wasn't through all of it... just the part after Snoopy goes back to Lila "for good" and Charlie Brown goes out to the empty doghouse after dark, and that song is playing... damn, it was SAD! But this all happened when I was younger, of course. Much, much younger... I still get a little misty whenever I hear Linus read "In Flanders Fields" during What Have We Learned, Charlie Brown? I can't help it if I love my Peanuts specials, Christine "If everyone around here wanted me to jump off a bridge, they'd just get together and push me." - Dave, NewsRadio ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 05:06:09 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: Wood typos Ln wrote: > But sometimes I forget. (Yes, > I know you're not supposed to start a sentence with and or but. :) Actually there is nothing wrong with starting a sentence with And or But if used appropriately and sparingly. Style books tell you not to do this, because if you do it wrong or frequently you sound illiterate. However consider the following: I'm completely fed up with this discussion! (And that is all I have to say about it.) The above is a completely correct set of sentences. Don't believe everything you read in a grammar book! P.S. I can't spell worth crap. The spell checker corrected 5 things in the above message. A.J. - -- Mariaweb last updated 5/13/99. See Maria Louise in all her... erm... Glory? Visit MariaWeb at http://members.aol.com/marilou99/ _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:40:09 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: Down From Above video (was: Re: IMPORTANT INFO chad schrock wrote: > Ok, for those of us that have never seen a Früvous video, let > alone DFA, why is everyone, um, down on that video? I've never heard anyone dis this video actually. Many people are down on Fly, because it is not all it could have been. Down From Above, however is wonderful. It is their best video to date by FAR, IMNSHO. It has great art direction, great special effects, great acting, and no pretensions whatsoever. Plus the guys in high heels! A.J. - -- Mariaweb last updated 5/13/99. See Maria Louise in all her... erm... Glory? Visit MariaWeb at http://members.aol.com/marilou99/ _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 05:17:48 GMT From: Raenfaerie@aol.com Subject: Re: Down From Above video Wait a *minute!* What exactly IS the video? I mean, much has been said about it, but those who haven't seen it - me - are utterly confused about its actual content. ack. - -mm- "i don't think that i will miss you / probly won't keep in touch" > Down From Above, however is wonderful. It is their best video to date by FAR, > IMNSHO. It has great art direction, great special effects, great acting, and no > pretensions whatsoever. Plus the guys in high heels! ------------------------------ Date: 06 Sep 1999 05:24:51 GMT From: jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7) Subject: OT: EFO review well, i didn't have pen, so couldn't write it all out, but perusing this weeks' Entertainment Weekly while on my way to Lake George [1], I saw they reviewed the new EFO album. The most interesting part: it was under the "country" heading. Anyhow, they seemed to like it plenty, and gave it a B+ ~jen (feeling the sudden pressure to actually proofread her posts for a change. Don't fret, though-- this too shall pass.. ;-) [1] where the main road is "Canada Street," and the one that runs parallel to it is "Ottowa." Can't escape this, I tell you.... ;-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Nobody likes you when you're 23"-- Blink 182 "Do you know that you are very strong?"-- Grover "Measure your life in love."--Rent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 05:39:19 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: Wood typos You know, I hate to say it, but I find the protestations of the pro-grammar people a bit anal. YES, I agree it is important to be legible in your writing. Jumbling words, using incorrect word order or faulty sentence construction makes communication nigh impossible. Your protests are quite in order in those cases. But spelling?!?!?!? Simple punctuation?!?!?!? Stupid anal rules like split infinitives or ajective/advervb stuff that we ALL break all the time in speaking? Give me a break. That doesn't impede communication. It merely bugs the more anal among us. (And I know of what I write, since I am a terrible speller and punctuator, while Lisa is a compulsive proof reader. I will hand her something and ask for an opinion on content and she gets out the red pen. Makes me want to strangle her. The fact is that there ARE times when that stuff matters. When you are in school, or handing in a formal report at work, or writing a piece of business correspondence, following the rules is essential, because you ARE judged on your ability to write "by the book." However, when posting notes to a newsgroup--an activity which I consider to be leisure--I simply refuse to be held to that standard. I write more like I talk. And if I type was instead of were, or use too many commas, or spell guitar gituar, I don't think it is too much to expect you to DEAL WITH IT. You knew what I meant. I do indeed find some of the "rules" of English to be merely kowtowing to "da Man." Placing periods question marks and exclamations INSIDE quotation marks when they aren't part of a quote seems stupid to me. Using "they" instead of he/she seems perfectly reasonable (and DOES have some precedent.) Capitalization rules are rather arbitrary methinks. Split-infinitives can be VERY communicative. And what if I LIKE run-on sentences? Spelling in English is very very hard to do. There are no reliable rules and it was only "standardised" a couple of hundred years ago. Why then must I be criticised for using a different letter that conveys the same sound, with a defense only being possible if they happen to spell it that way in England or Canada? Like I said, I agree that there are times when one needs to follow the rules, but I don't think that informal writing on a newsgroup is necessarily one of those times. A.J. - -- Mariaweb last updated 5/13/99. See Maria Louise in all her... erm... Glory? Visit MariaWeb at http://members.aol.com/marilou99/ _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 05:12:32 GMT From: ctyner@my-deja.com (Adam Tyner) Subject: With all this talk about MPG... Y'know, the first time I saw "MPG" in the subject line on amm-f, I instantly assumed that it had to do with Fruvous video clips instead of My Poor Generation... That got me thinking (gears slowly turning)...wouldn't it be spiffy if someone put up AVI/Quicktime/MPG/RealVideo/Vivo/whatever video files of Fruvous? Not ever having seen a Fru-video, I'd definitely be interested. Sorry if this has been mentioned recently. :-) I've been pretty bad about reading posts lately. :-) - -Adam ------------------------------ Date: 06 Sep 1999 05:48:22 GMT From: jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7) Subject: Re: Wood typos >>Placing periods question marks and exclamations INSIDE quotation marks when they aren't part of a quote seems stupid to me. << Well, though this is true of periods, question marks and exclamation points go outside the quotation marks if they are not part of the quote. ;-) [1] Now, having said that--I agree with everything else AJ said. No one here has demonstrated posting skills such as those Katrin suggested in her example, as far as I can tell. This is a highly informal medium of communication. Case in point-- all these damn acronyms that are being discussed on another thread. Frankly, this bugs me more than a few mispelled words, or an incorrect verb tense. I can understand what any given poster on the ng is trying to say, and that's all that matters to me. ~jen [1] commas also go inside the quotes, semicolons outside, for you grammar-particular types ;-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Nobody likes you when you're 23"-- Blink 182 "Do you know that you are very strong?"-- Grover "Measure your life in love."--Rent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 06:00:46 GMT From: Terry Smith Subject: Re: OT: Dark Crystal (was Re: Wal Mart as the trupeter of the apocalypse (was Re: NOW Magazine this week) Excellent! Oh, damn. Now I have to buy a dvd player instead of making someone copy "the matrix" for me. Thanks for the release date! - -Terry Neilbert wrote: > > I think I saw it was coming back. Yep, will be out Sept 21 on VHS and DVD. DVD will have deleted scenes, > seperate musical score, production notes and 'documentaries.' - ------------------------< http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~terry >---------- Terry A. Smith \ Celui que tient la peur de devinir nuage \_________________________________________ U of MD, Baltimore County : Computer Science/Int'l Relations TRW Maryland Engineering Lab: Space and Defense Division #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 06:16:34 GMT From: Queen Lisa Subject: Re: Fruvous at the Sidetrack Cafe In article <19990905163458.01622.00002521@ng-fs1.aol.com>, bbwminors@aol.com (BBWMinors) wrote: > QLOS wrote ... > > <>> > > Damn, now my face is a shiny shade of bright pink ... I knew that the Edmonton > Oilers are the hockey team there, don't know what I was braincramping on, and > to think I didn't even have to completely alientate everyone after all!!!! > > Well, I do like soccer better than hockey (especially since thank God my > daughter doesn't play it so I don't have to hang out at muddy fields every > Saturday in the fall). > Well, I've played hockey and I much prefer being on a team with a bunch of chicks and having a time to watching 80 professional games, most of which aren't that exciting. I liked actually getting out there and playing; even though I'm not particularly large or burly, I was quite the cocky little thing once I was laced up. Good fun! Love the sport itself, don't like the business all that much. QLOS Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 06:48:42 GMT From: YOURSLICE@aol.com Subject: Cleveland and BG Could somebody out there please help me with the best way to get from Cleveland to Bowling Green? AAA and mapquest seem to greatly differ in opinion. Also, what time does the BG show start? FDC has a different time when compared to the festival's website. Thanks for your help and I'll see many of you this weekend (YEAH!!!!!!!!) Psycho Mike ------------------------------ Date: 06 Sep 1999 12:08:26 GMT From: limezinger@aol.commmmmmmm (my friend goo) Subject: Re: Ashley MacIsaac >I know that there are many Great Big Sea fans here. I was wondering if there >were any Ashley MacIsaac fans. oooh, ooh! i like 'im! :) (but i don't like great big sea.. funny.) sarah linnellgirl@tmbg.org http://members.aol.com/limezinger "i'd love to stay here and be normal, ...but it's just so overrated" -- blur. ------------------------------ Date: 06 Sep 1999 14:00:48 GMT From: serra44@aol.com (Jill Friedman) Subject: Re: Thornhill = Beatles I was listening to Thornhill in the shower this morning (you know, but the stereo in the bathroom, then jump in the shower), and when Downsizing came on, I *honestly* thought it was Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds. Obviously it wasn't, but it really sounds similar. Especially in that part in the bridge where they say, "PICTURE YOURSELF!" In other observations, the guitar in YCBTC sounds a lot like the guitar in this one OASIS song. (Hey, if they can't sound like the Fab Four, they may as well sound like the bite-off band!) ::shrug:: I love the album and our lads more than ever, but I just had to comment on these similiarities. - -J writing a song called the Ballad of Jill V. Fruhead Member of the Jian fan club Owner of all the MF albums and all of Ani DiFranco's "She's too short to play me."-Joey Potter Too short to play herself in a movie ------------------------------ Date: 6 Sep 1999 13:41:55 GMT From: Josh Woodward Subject: Re: Cleveland and BG YOURSLICE@aol.com wrote: : Could somebody out there please help me with the best way to get from : Cleveland to Bowling Green? AAA and mapquest seem to greatly differ in : opinion. Also, what time does the BG show start? FDC has a different time : when compared to the festival's website. Thanks for your help and I'll see : many of you this weekend (YEAH!!!!!!!!) 80/90W -> 75S. Hang a right on the exit ramp and drive till you get to the downtown festivities. :-) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Josh Woodward, CheEsy Fru. joshw@fruhead.com Web Site and Tape List: http://www.fruhead.com/joshw/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 14:37:31 GMT From: FruCake1@aol.com Subject: Re: Jian webpage and my webpage In a message dated 99-09-05 23:05:12 EDT, srm9988n@aol.comicrelief writes: << but as fans I don't think any of us, webmasters or not, has the right to censor other fans from expressing their admiration on their own pages. There's room for all of us, and it's not a competition. >> AMEN SISTER!! :) Lisa Bills ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 14:34:47 GMT From: FruCake1@aol.com Subject: Re: Jian webpage and my webpage In a message dated 99-09-05 23:04:48 EDT, sugarfly26@aol.com writes: << When I went, the guestbook wasn't working yet, so I'll go back later and sign it.)>> Our guestbook is up and running. Plus, we're adding new stuff tonight so check back.:) http://www.mypoorgeneration.com << but I like Jian too....if no one responds to this, I guess I'll assume no one is and I can make one? >> GO FOR IT!!!! I'll help if you need it. I also have some great pictures (from my Jihead days--hahaha) so I can scan them and send them to you if you'd like. Good Luck! Lisa Bills ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 14:18:01 GMT From: LSan497884@aol.com Subject: Re: Wood typos Oh, oh--I think I started -- or perpetuated -- something that I didn't intend to become so inflammatory. Although I flinch when i read mispelled word or poor grammar (that old English teacher in me won't die), I still read the posts and try to understand what the writer is trying to communicate. Most often those communications are well worth the effort. I agree with whoever said that we need to be open and relaxed about this form of communication (i-net). I think this is a wonderful medium for people to share thoughts and opinions, and I've had the opportunity to gain some great insights from the messages I read here. Heaven knows, my spelling/grammar is not perfect (just ask Maria how often I try to put "that" into sentences where it's totally unnecessary!) *Lois (Fogeyfru) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 14:32:06 GMT From: saphiracat@birdlover.com Subject: Re: Jian webpage and my webpage ---- you wrote: > I asked this before, but didn't get a response. Is anyone doing or does anyone > have a Jian webpage? I love the others, (creators of mypoorgeneration, it looks > awesome. When I went, the guestbook wasn't working yet, so I'll go back later > and sign it.) but I like Jian too....if no one responds to this, I guess I'll > assume no one is and I can make one? > > And some OT : my webpage http://members.tripod.com/~nesku/index.html is > getting kinda lonely...there really isn't much fruvous related, but if anyone > feels like humoring me, check it out, k? Thanks!! :o) > > --------> Ln > If anyone is going to do a Jian webpage (I can't, I have limited webspace), I have some graffics I made that I can contribute. E-mail me at SaphiraCat@hotmail.com. - -Saph "Sometimes you're the windsheild, sometimes you're the bug." -Unknown "Why do we have to think? why can't we just sit here and go BLBLBLBLBLB wth our lips for a bit?" -Arthur Dent "There is no great genius without a mixture of madness." -Aristotle - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Get your free email from AltaVista at http://altavista.iname.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 14:49:44 GMT From: LSan497884@aol.com Subject: Re: OT: Grammar (was: Wood typos) Ooooo! You should be writing for Hallmark! Seriously, thank you for reminding us of so many of the simple, beautiful things all around us! *Lois *Fogeyfru) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 14:44:18 GMT From: jbardhan@demon.ceh.servtech.com (Neil Bardhan) Subject: Hee hee hee hooooo..... (semi-OT) To the Americans, happy Labor Day! No more white shoes or pants, I tell you... I hate ICQ. Really. semi-topic: I'm going to visit Borders in Rochester today, whee! I haven't been there in soooooo long.. Um, yeah, you see the connections sure. Neil Neil Bardhan: stage manager,tape trader,CTY Nevermore,Libertarian,and nice guy http://www.servtech.com/~jbardhan/ Aliens ransacked my room ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 15:18:52 GMT From: jkpolk@ntplx.net (Andrea Krause) Subject: Re: Moxy Fruvous and Dune! On 03 Sep 1999 03:34:00 GMT, gordonlew@aol.com (Gordon Nash) wrote: >The thread singing/performing with the frumen lead me to start thinking of the >Fremen from Dune. Now I have the thought of the Planet Arrakis being populated >by tribes lead by the Lads. The Frumen are separated into Murray's people, >Jian's People, Mike's People and Dave's people. Which one would Paul end up >with? >Instead of becoming Emporer would he be King of Spain? >Feanole aka DrWhoFru OK, I'm glad I'm not alone...I went into IRC the other day and I think "Frumen" was in the topic and I just could not help my mind from jumping right to Fremen and my mind got all Dune-ified. :) Phew. What's so great about this whole Fruhead community thing is you can ALWAYS find someone else with the same weirdness so you can pretend you're normal. :) Thanks! Andrea - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Crass me up, baby!" - Mike Ford 11/14/98 Pumpkins, Cookies, Tapes, and The Früvous Dance: http://users.ntplx.net/~jkpolk - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 16:16:41 GMT From: vika@fruhead.com (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Down From Above video (was: Re: IMPORTANT INFO "A.J. LoCicero" said: >I've never heard anyone dis this video actually. Many people are down >on Fly, because it is not all it could have been. Really? That's probably my favorite video of the Fruhead Card collection. Stylistically, it's very consistent, and it's just sentimental enough not to give me a toothache. :) - ----- Vika Zafrin ----- vika@fruhead.com ----- "I am writing this an hour later and there is still a small demon in my stomach scratching to get out. And it's small and green and nasty. It murdered the antacid I gave it, and laughed." -Laura Lemay, re: wasabi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 16:23:09 GMT From: vika@fruhead.com (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Ashley MacIsaac "Kate Leahy" said: >Also, some lucky FrüCon I denizens got to meet Ashley outside the convention >hotel one day :). Well, "lucky" is relative. I think we scared him. :) Or we *finished* scaring him, a job begun by the TV crew who showed up to film the con (ick... the edited version was... silly) and asked Ashley in a hallway of the hotel if he'd like to be a Fruhead too. Reportedly, his response was "uh... no. What's a Fruhead?" - -v - ----- Vika Zafrin ----- vika@fruhead.com ----- "I am writing this an hour later and there is still a small demon in my stomach scratching to get out. And it's small and green and nasty. It murdered the antacid I gave it, and laughed." -Laura Lemay, re: wasabi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 12:08:51 -0400 From: Loren Becker Subject: OT: Grammar (was Re: Wood typos) "A.J. LoCicero" wrote: > But spelling?!?!?!? Simple punctuation?!?!?!? Stupid anal rules like > split infinitives or ajective/advervb stuff that we ALL break all the > time in speaking? Give me a break. That doesn't impede communication. > It merely bugs the more anal among us. (And I know of what I write, > since I am a terrible speller and punctuator, while Lisa is a compulsive > proof reader. I will hand her something and ask for an opinion on > content and she gets out the red pen. Makes me want to strangle her. I've been promising myself that I wouldn't get involved since the start of this thread but there are times when I just can't keep my mouth shut. My poor father has been hearing a lot about this stuff from me lately since he's the only other person in my family who participates in online discussions. I won't argue with you about split infinitives (I forget what Kate calls these but there's another name for them as well) or other grammar rules that are broken all the time in everyday speech - those things certainly don't impede communication. However, I would argue that, in a written forum, spelling and punctuation can and do serve as an impediment to understanding. The write-it-how-you-say-it idea doesn't really work here since there are so many different words that sound and look fairly alike. If you write "hear" when you mean "here," that's one more thing I have to fight with in order to understand what you are saying. The same is true of "shell" and "she'll." In my opinion, it's not me that you're disrespecting when you write poorly but yourself and your ideas. If you're taking the time to post something to a newsgroup, then it must be something you think is worth communicating. If it's not, I'd recommend reconsidering whether to post it at all. If it is, then you should want to communicate it as clearly as possible and therefore you should take the time to make sure that your thoughts are presented correctly. Your role as a participant in the newsgroup is to contribute ideas to the ongoing discussion, but if I have to fight to understand you then I more likely than not to just ignore you and your ideas won't be transferred. I'm not talking about one or two spelling errors in a post here, but rather post riddled with sentences such as: "hes rilly begining too iratate me." [1] The same issue applies with punctuation. These rules don't exist just to make your life more difficult - they are there to facilitate understanding. Having been raised by parents who are journalists and editors, I get nitpicky sometimes. But I bite my tongue and try not to point out that what I often find online lacks all of the beauty and finesse that the English language is capable of having. I agree with Vika completely on this one - I love words and languages and think we should all strive to use our language as beautifully as we can. Yes, the English language is a complicated and confusing one but if you pay attention to what you're writing, you'll find that simple things make what you're saying all that much clearer. Our ability to communicate effectively is an important part of the beauty of the language. I'd also like to echo the plea that people set their preferences to wrap outgoing message text at 72 characters per line. Scrolling across in order to read a full paragraph of text is really hard on my eyes. Shutting up now... /loren [1] This is just an extreme example. ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #791 ********************************************