From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #676 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Monday, August 9 1999 Volume 03 : Number 676 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Myers & Briggs test [Jacey7@aol.com] Re: The Band Has Four Members [mocksie@aol.com (Mysterious Mocksie)] Moxy in the Rochester D&C [SnarkiFru ] Internet Company Makes Pre-IPO.Offer [pujuisoa91@orac.ecc.tased.edu.au (q] Re: Myers & Briggs test ["Jill Hufnagel" ] Re: Myers & Briggs test ["Jill Hufnagel" ] Re: Newsflash about "C" ["Jill Hufnagel" ] Gotta roll with it [misty ] re:fruvous.com [Leah Bridgers ] Re: fruvous.com [Leah Bridgers ] Re: Gotta roll with it [Jacey7@aol.com] Re: fruvous.com [AngelCL7@aol.com] Re: Moxy in the Rochester D&C [FruCake1@aol.com] Re: fruvous.com ["Leah Bender" ] WBER interview ["Tim Deegan" ] Re: book recomendations [ross_hendry@bigfoot.com (Ross Hendry)] Re: Newsflash about "C" [Jacey7@aol.com] Re: OT: Dick of Dick's Pick ["Erring" ] Re: Important subject if you collect Frumiles [Snarky Spice ] Re: Gotta roll with it ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: Gotta roll with it [srm9988n@aol.composter (Lori Martin)] Re: whine whine whine [luckydabed@aol.complexity (maria)] A quick intro... [Melanie Natoli ] Re: Gotta roll with it [srm9988n@aol.composter (Lori Martin)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 19:40:26 GMT From: Jacey7@aol.com Subject: Re: Myers & Briggs test Geenius at Wrok wrote: ::snip informatative explanation about all those letters and abbreviations that have been running rampant around here of late:: Thank you!! Suddenly it all makes sense ;-) ~jen - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Nobody likes you when you're 23." --Blink 182 "Do you know that you are very strong?"-- Grover "Measure your life in love."-- Rent Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: 09 Aug 1999 19:40:46 GMT From: mocksie@aol.com (Mysterious Mocksie) Subject: Re: The Band Has Four Members Re: Dave's voice. On this past new years day I surprized my lil sister with a Moxy Concert at The Bottom Line in NYC. The concert was absolutely amazing, as we were LESS THAN FIVE FEET from the guys at all time (It was a sit down show... that kinda sucked but I take what I can get) Anyway, for their encore, the lads stood at the very front of the stage in a row with spotlights on them. They proceeded to sing "The Gulf War Song", acapella and WITHOUT microphones. Let me tell you it was the most gorgeous thing I have ever heard. Dave's voice resonated so much that it brought tears to my eyes. Ugh. What can I say? Gorgeeous. Mike's voice kept cracking on the high-high notes, but that only made it better because it was so *real*. So yeah. Dave's voice. Yeah. - -Mocksie "There's only one cloud in the sky, and it's raining on me. Somehow I'm not surprized." ~Eeyore~ "I misplaced what made me real." ~Moxy Fruvous~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 19:44:42 GMT From: SnarkiFru Subject: Moxy in the Rochester D&C Write up of Thornhill from the D&C online edition... check out the pic... i now can't decide which is tastier... http://www.rochestergoesout.com/night/0805moxy.html oh, and as for acknowledging the other band members... Dave was the first FruLad I met, way back in the Fall of '97 (yeah, so way back... *smirk*). I have always thought him to be incredibly talented, with his menagerie of instruments and his voice. The thing I love most about his voice is that it is so clear in tone, and in inflection. Besides, you gotta admire a man who can make accordian playing sexy... *smirk* Mike, while I don't know Mike very well, I admire his wide range of personalities, his INCREDIBLE amount of energy, his wittiness with wordplay, and that twinkling in his eye that makes you wonder what kind of trouble he's cooking up ;^} Murray is definitely one of those quiet ones you have to watch out for. He's got that innocent "who me" kinda look on his face... but then he'll open his mouth and say something completely out there! I like his hugs, and his encouraging me to be silly... and most of all I hear rumours of him being a dessert nazi[1] whenever the guys are gifted with confections... which is always a compliment to a confectioner! Ok, so now I'm done... again... - --Angie [1] disclaimer... nazi, not to be confused with the evil German Nazis... I felt compelled to say that because in another mailing list someone commented lightly and started a 2 week long flame war... so, i'm just coverin my a$$ ;^P They say that the Road to Hell is paved with good intentions... well, at least it will be a smooth ride - --me ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 20:08:06 GMT From: pujuisoa91@orac.ecc.tased.edu.au (qwopius) Subject: Internet Company Makes Pre-IPO.Offer Internet E-commerce companies are hot!! XtremeMagic, an internet retailer specializing in the top "40" music, video and DVD titles is currently seeking savvy investors. The company is structured as an LLC and is only accepting QUALIFIED individuals with a minimum of $10,000.00 USD. The XtremeMagic LLC has signed a memorandum of understanding with a Public Company, which proposes an exchange of LLC units for "free trading stock". LLC members will be voting on this important and exciting issue. Members could recieve as much as 10,000 shares of stock in the Public Company. A merger is likely to happen in 60 to 90 days when the LLC members vote accordingly. XtremeMagic believes it can beat the competition by utilizing automation and offering for sale only the top "40" music, video and DVD titles, which trims operational costs dramatically. Similar internet companies have seen record highs in their share price in recent trading. Investors have experienced windfall returns of as much as 1000% to 2000%, by getting in early (see IPO sheet). If you are looking for a ground floor Internet Company poised to go public and you have a minimum of $10,000.00 USD, and can make a decision within 3-5 days after reviewing the brochure and business plan this is for you. - ---Please Note--- Due to the overwhelming response we receive and the time limitations on this offering, respondents MUST meet the following requirements. 1. Please indicate best time and number to call. 2. Potential investors must be liquid for $10,000 U.S.D. 3. Investors must be capable of making a decision within 3-4 days. Please Fax to the number below your Name, Phone Number, Best Time to Call and indicate your timezone. A company representative will review your information and promptly respond. 248-692-0746 - ---Disclaimer--- This is not an offer or a solicitation of an offer for a security. An offer can only be made by the prospectus and authorized personnel of the Company. This offer is void in the following States; Alabama, Idaho, Maryland, North Dakota, Pennsylvania,South Dakota, Wisconsin, and any other State or jurisdiction that prohibits the offer or sale of private securities. This offer has not been approved by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, Neither has any State or local authority passed on the offer being made by the Offeror. This offer is being made under an exemption under the provisions of The Securities Act of 1933-1934, as amended. 15647e65j-59436j4w#Arj u Co ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 20:21:16 GMT From: "Jill Hufnagel" Subject: Re: Myers & Briggs test OK about the who Personality test/Introvert-Extrovert thing, I'm don't my presentation in Sociology class on it. I'm going to do this little experiment before had where I survey people and then I'm going to have all the surveyed over and video tape the gathering to see how correct the survey seems. However a lot of you seem to have interest in this so if any of you have good information or websites or other sources you can email me at Jiel27@hotmail.com. Thanks and hope to hear from you. **Jiel** _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 20:21:27 GMT From: "Jill Hufnagel" Subject: Re: Myers & Briggs test OK about the who Personality test/Introvert-Extrovert thing, I'm don't my presentation in Sociology class on it. I'm going to do this little experiment before had where I survey people and then I'm going to have all the surveyed over and video tape the gathering to see how correct the survey seems. However a lot of you seem to have interest in this so if any of you have good information or websites or other sources you can email me at Jiel27@hotmail.com. Thanks and hope to hear from you. **Jiel** _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 20:28:41 GMT From: "Jill Hufnagel" Subject: Re: Newsflash about "C" >Geenius at Wrok wrote: >: "Bargainville" - part serious, part funny. >: "Wood" - all serious. >: "b" - all funny. >Live Noise - live album >: "YWGTTM" - part serious, part funny. >: "Thornhill" - all serious. >: Next album - all funny? >And then another live album? :) >Kinda makes you wonder... >- A.P. Hmmm...Possibly "Our Favorite Places" The next live album...the one that really lets us know who's there favorite...Wait, but we all know they don't have favorite places just favorite people. Heehee **Jiel** _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 20:19:31 GMT From: misty Subject: Gotta roll with it Okay, I don't mean to sound bitchy(if i can even say that on this oh so proper discussion.) But the messages lately have really been getting to me. First off I think that Moxy was all about having fun and had a real free excepting vibe. Although this discussion group (for the most part) has ruined that for me. I mean why are you going to even play that game of I'm a better fan than you. (too damn many faces) Except anyone who enjoys. I mean you all should really make like club cards or something just to make sure someone who isn't a complete fanatic gets into a show(god forbid.) And this whole waves thing.....First off that letter made me sick...then all your replies had the same affect. If you dont like her letter(wich I didn't either) than tell her but who the hell cares about her grammer. Can we all say anal retentive? For gods sake loosen up a little bit and have some fun. I bet you'll be a lot happier that way. You should all move to this little factory town i used to live in. Its chalk full of closed minded people. Sorry I know this does not apply to everyone. Im going on a run to blow off some steam now. (It really got to me that much!) Misti Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 17:03:25 -0400 From: Leah Bridgers Subject: re:fruvous.com Ok, so I've managed to get to Fruvous.com. Does anyone know why it comes up fine if I use internet explorer, but just gives me a grey screen when I use Netscape? My hunch is that it's a plot by Bill Gates to take over the world! Leah ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 16:37:45 -0400 From: Leah Bridgers Subject: Re: fruvous.com Leah Bender wrote: > > > > Wait... am I just a moron, or is this a third Leah? Ack! > > -Bender > I think that there are only two... I've been on the ng for a while, but my email address just changed...from an Albany address to a Syracuse address, cause I moved... It'd be pretty wacky if there were three of us! Leah ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 20:28:21 GMT From: Jacey7@aol.com Subject: Re: Gotta roll with it Misty feels that: >>you all should really make like club cards or something just to make sure someone who isn't a complete fanatic gets into a show(god forbid.) << Actually, it's a secret handshake. Get it right. ;-) ~jen (happy thoughts people, happy thoughts... :^) - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Nobody likes you when you're 23." --Blink 182 "Do you know that you are very strong?"-- Grover "Measure your life in love."-- Rent Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 21:20:15 GMT From: AngelCL7@aol.com Subject: Re: fruvous.com In a message dated 8/9/99 2:33:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lcbridge@syr.edu writes: << Is anyone else having trouble viewing fruvous.com? I've been trying to get onto the site for the past 2 days, and all I get is a lovely grey background! Help! Leah >> Same here! I tried everything! ~~Crystal~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 21:46:01 GMT From: FruCake1@aol.com Subject: Re: Moxy in the Rochester D&C In a message dated 8/9/99 4:03:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LladyYasmina@netscape.net writes: << check out the pic... i now can't decide which is tastier >> WHAT A GREAT PICTURE!!!! OO LA LA!! = P Lisa Bills ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 21:50:51 GMT From: "Leah Bender" Subject: Re: fruvous.com >It'd be pretty wacky if there were three of >us! I think there's some sort of regulation about how many Leahs there can be... I mean, if there were too many of us, the world would just implode or something... Why, some of you non-Leahs may ask? I'll tell you why: Because we rock. Plain and simple. :) - -Bender - ------------------------------------------------------------ * http://www.bombdiggity.com/ * Yeah, baby, YEAH! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 17:31:26 -0400 From: "Tim Deegan" Subject: WBER interview The Frulads are "stopping by" the studio at noon tomorrow, so says Chris Andrews and Dr. Damien. (Thank you Melissa for listening to Rant) If I think of more stuff to post I will. : D Tomorrow tomorrow! Maggie "Befriend the puffins... before the puffins attack!" -- Jian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 21:40:37 GMT From: ross_hendry@bigfoot.com (Ross Hendry) Subject: Re: book recomendations On 07 Aug 1999 19:18:14 GMT, shadoeme@aol.com (ShadoeMe) wrote: > >frukid asked >> >>I've been wondering, too, are there any books any of you would *really* >>recommend to me? > IF you're into Sci-fi then I can wholeheartedly recommend the Miles Vorkosigan books by Lois McMaster Bujold. Very very good indeed. Ross It's the Galaxies Greatest Comic, Now check out it's web site! http://www.cybergoth.net/tuws/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 21:26:09 GMT From: Jacey7@aol.com Subject: Re: Newsflash about "C" Amy wrote: > : "Bargainville" - part serious, part funny. > : "Wood" - all serious. > : "b" - all funny. > > Live Noise - live album > > : "YWGTTM" - part serious, part funny. > : "Thornhill" - all serious. > : Next album - all funny? > > And then another live album? :) But, but, but.... didn't Moon come out before LN? I mean, I loved the symmetry of it and all, but the timing seemed off... ~jen - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Nobody likes you when you're 23." --Blink 182 "Do you know that you are very strong?"-- Grover "Measure your life in love."-- Rent Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 17:20:55 -0400 From: "Erring" Subject: Re: OT: Dick of Dick's Pick Groovy Spice wrote in message <7on65v$qm5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>... > >for the record, dick actually died on friday, 8/6 i believe. it's >certainly a sad week for the gdead community, at any rate. I know that dick passed away on friday, what I said was that I found out about his passing away on the anniversary of Jerry's death. But thank you for the keeping the record straight, at any rate. >> historians like Dick who helped keep the memory of a great band alive. >indeed. i know a lot of people who'd like to continue his work, too. True indeed. And with the same reasoning, I would offer to administer a tape tree (for a Moxy Fruvous show) if anyone has a quality show they are willing to offer....ellen, have anything worthy that we could use to share the music? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 22:02:49 GMT From: Snarky Spice Subject: Re: Important subject if you collect Frumiles In article <7omlrt$dm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Groovy Spice wrote: > In article , > YOURSLICE@aol.com wrote: > > I just wanted to inform all of you that the new > > millennium begins on January 1, 2001. > > sure, dude, keep yours another year and then try to use it. i'm sure > tobey will listen to your argument. ;) Whoo! Ellen's got the Snark out! High Five, - --Amanda You know me, you just don't know you know me Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 17:58:30 -0400 From: "KatieWow" Subject: SOL on Point Tickets, but . . . Just wanted to drop a note of thanks and (strangely) happiness. My grandmother passed away last week and her funeral was today. This came a week and a half after I attended the funeral of my roommate Monique, who was killed in a drunk-driving related accident. My grandmother and I were very close, and it was a very difficult loss. On the way from the church to the cemetary, it seemed that every station in bandwidth range was playing sappy Dion-esque songs that were for the first time making me bawl my eyes out. I hit the last button on the radio only to hear the familiar bass line that opens Michael Jackson's "Billy Jean." Immediately, I smiled and thought not only of my favorite band (Früvous, not any Jackson outfit :), but of all the wonderful people I've met through them and of all the amazing memories I've collected. So thanks. To the guys and to all of you :). Unfortunately, this meant that I was unable to get tickets to the taping at the Point, but it really doesn't matter, I don't think. I wish I could be there with you all, but I'll have plenty of other opportunities :). Take care of yourselves, wear your seatbelts, and spend time with the people you love. ~~Kate - -- Kate Leahy kleahy@loyola.edu katiewow@fruhead.com *********************************** "It's a long long road It's a big big world We are wise wise women We are giggling girls . . . " - --Ani DiFranco *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 22:15:48 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: Gotta roll with it misty wrote: All kinds of stuff indicating that she is somewhat frustrated by the discussions on this newsgroup, and her perceptions of the people who post here. I'm not gonna bother to answer anything directly. We've been over this ground too many times before. What I am gonna say is this: It seems that for some people who arrive here, there is a stage that they go through where they think everyone is rude cliquey and exclusive. Invariably one or 2 things seem to happen: Either they go away in a huff convinced that we are all assholes (their loss) or they tough it out and come to see that they had kind of misjudged things (or at least had failed to see the complexity of the relationships here.), after which they feel much more at home and can happily prattle on about body hair, breast size, or any of the other pressing questions of the day. Misty, I sincerely hope you belong to the second group. We are not nearly so impenetrable a community as we seem. Give things a chance and you will be glad you did. A.J. - -- Mariaweb last updated 5/13/99. See Maria Louise in all her... em... Glory? Visit MariaWeb at http://members.aol.com/marilou99/ _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: 09 Aug 1999 22:26:46 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.composter (Lori Martin) Subject: Re: Gotta roll with it Misti wrote: >this whole waves thing.....First off that letter made me >sick...then all your replies had the same affect. If you dont like her >letter(wich I didn't either) than tell her but who the hell cares about >her grammer. Umm, actually no one, as you can tell by the fact that in general no one around here gets slammed for poor grammar alone, nor for bad punctuation, misspelling, or occasional lapses into French, Spanish, Farsi or Gaelic. Trollish content, however, is fair game for skewering on most newsgroups, and to that end so is incorporating any and all outrageous counter-troll methods in an attempt to ... > loosen up a >little bit and have some fun with an obvious troll. It certainly beats getting all pissy and defensive, although it's infinitely less effective than utterly ignoring someone who's just craving attention. Alas, few of us have that discipline. If you seriously think AJ was attempting to clear up any misconceptions when he announced we were all bisexual pedophiles, or that Katie attacked him, and I her, in earnest, then adjust the satire-o-meter just a speck, okay hon? > Sorry I know this does not apply to everyone. Im going on a run to >blow off some steam now. (It really got to me that much!) I'm sorry it got to you so much, because it didn't get to me that much, and I'm one of the ones who first came out to play on this -- and evin poynted out hur badd speling. ;) Of course, going out for a run's never a *bad* thing. - -- Lori ************** she wants attention, she craves attention ------------------------------ Date: 09 Aug 1999 22:32:48 GMT From: luckydabed@aol.complexity (maria) Subject: Re: whine whine whine A.J. said: >Having said >that, I think we can safely allow the likes of Minnesota, Iowa, Kansas, >Nebraska and >Missouri (kinda although since it was a slave state it has many things more >in common >with the South.) to be called Midwestern, Wait, wait, wait...YOU allow US? No, no, no. You should be happy to even be allowed to have Eastern Midwest as a title. I, being from the TRUE midwest, feels you are just a cheap, bargain basement store knock off. I mean, where is your butter cow?? Your lovely go-anywhere scent of pig manure? Your food on a stick? [1] The pure hickness that IS the midwest? That's right, they are all right here. Consider the following, [2] otherwise we might have to come after you in our pickup trucks carrying shotguns and beer. :D maria wondering where when all the other real midwesterners are going to back me up. Oh wait, that's right. There are no others. [1] hehe, don't'cha love the juxtapostion of the manure and food phrases? [2] Yay! Bill Nye, the only science I can stomach ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^ "'Is there something you like?' 'Barney.' 'Is there something you despise?' 'Barney'...'Is something you reject?' 'Food that isn't Barney'" - --Moxy Fruvous, 6/15/99 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 23:58:42 GMT From: Melanie Natoli Subject: A quick intro... Hey fellow fruheads, what's up? I just joined the list and thought I'd give a quick intro. Me name is Melanie, I'm 19, and I was born on a dark and stormy night......just kidding. I live in central jersey but I go to school up in Pennsylvania. The first time I saw, or even heard of moxy was at the Clearwater festival. I was sitting right in front because I had my spot staked out all day for Dar, and I decided to stick around and check them out. I fell in love with their stage presence and talent immediately. Now I'm going to see them on Friday in the city, and then Monday at the beach. I can't even tell you how excited I am. Ok, that's it, don't really want to bore you guys with useless information about my life, but if there's anything you would like to know feel free to ask. --MeL === ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "If you're going to be able to look back on something and laugh, you might as well laugh at it now." --Marie Osmond MeLaNiE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: 09 Aug 1999 23:50:30 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.composter (Lori Martin) Subject: Re: Gotta roll with it Misti wrote: >this whole waves thing.....First off that letter made me >sick...then all your replies had the same affect. If you dont like her >letter(wich I didn't either) than tell her but who the hell cares about >her grammer. Umm, actually no one, as you can tell by the fact that in general no one around here gets slammed for poor grammar alone, nor for bad punctuation, misspelling, or occasional lapses into French, Spanish, Farsi or Gaelic. Trollish content, however, is fair game for skewering on most newsgroups, and to that end so is incorporating any and all outrageous counter-troll methods in an attempt to ... > loosen up a >little bit and have some fun with an obvious troll. It certainly beats getting all pissy and defensive, although it's infinitely less effective than utterly ignoring someone who's just craving attention. Alas, few of us have that discipline. If you seriously think AJ was attempting to clear up any misconceptions when he announced we were all orgy-loving pedophiles, or that Katie attacked him, and I her, in earnest, then adjust the satire-o-meter just a speck, okay hon? :) > Sorry I know this does not apply to everyone. Im going on a run to >blow off some steam now. (It really got to me that much!) I'm sorry it got to you so much, because it didn't get to me that much, and I'm one of the ones who first came out to play on this -- and evin poynted out hur badd speling. ;) Of course, going out for a run's never a *bad* thing. - -- Lori ************** she wants attention, she craves attention ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #676 ********************************************