From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #490 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Monday, June 14 1999 Volume 03 : Number 490 Today's Subjects: ----------------- ID [CheesemonkeyGem ] criticism in general (attn: patrick) [firedancer ] Re: Criticism: Lyric tags [trace@frumail.org (Trace)] Re: location of fans (topic, what topic?) [trace@frumail.org (Trace)] Re: Criticism: Lyric tags ["KatieWow" ] Re: Criticism: bad lyrics (long) [luckydabed@aol.com.la.deda (Maria)] oh dear ["KatieWow" ] Re: Criticism: bad lyrics (long) [kelloggp@nagita.cs.colorado.edu (Kellog] Re: Criticism: bad lyrics (long) [LuCkYDaBeD@aol.com] Re: You've inspired a post from me, congratulations :) [aprestin@ccs.neu.] Re: Criticism: bad lyrics (long) [luckydabed@aol.com.la.deda (Maria)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:15:21 GMT From: CheesemonkeyGem Subject: ID >Just puzzled... I have a photo ID[1] that has my >birthdate and "Age 21 in 1998" writ large upon it. >Does Canada not have such? It seems like a far >simpler solution than the Byzantine system of >valid/invalid ID that you describe. hehe, funny you should mention that. Just a few days ago i was talking to my american icq pal and she told me the same thing. So me rushes to my phone and calls up the license bureau to ask about this, and i received a very rude no. Its not that my ID is "invalid" so much as it just wouldnt be an acceptable form of identification (ok that statement made a lot more sense in my head). what i need is a stupid card with my photo and birthdate on it, and it would most likely not work if i used my highschool OAC year (grade 13) student card AND my birth certificate, prolly because they could think it was two different people. and my student card doenst have my full name on it, it just says J. Meyers. ah well screw it. its my fault for putting off getting my license and an age of majority card and a new health card. ARGNARG. - -jen the tired, hot, little cheesehead === The World's Shortest Pessimistic Poem: Hope? Nope. - -Robert Zeal _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:22:33 GMT From: firedancer Subject: criticism in general (attn: patrick) i'm trying my damndest to keep my mouth shut, as i'm not generally a hostile person, but i'm feeling particularly malicious this evening... i understand why some of you feel that patrick is entitled to his own opinion; everybody on this newsgroup undoubtedly should be. but patrick, i've one simple question for you: why the sam hell do you even waste your time wading through 100 emails per day about a band that you don't even *like*?! um, you mentioned something about getting a life?! yeah, okay, i'll get right on that... i don't have a problem with people criticizing the band; no band could possibly be perfect in satisfying everybody's likes and dislikes, and i'm sure it's even helpful for the lads to hear some outside input as to where they are lacking; but if you're gonna do it, please be considerate of other people's feelings. many of us *do* take it personally when you insult us with your little elusive comments. my suggestion to you? rather than posting seventy-eleven different criticisms about a band that so many of us just absolutely adore, and in turn disparaging many of us; *unsubscribe* from the damn newsgroup! k@, i'm with you! oh, and by the way, ThE BaNd *does* RoC, in my humble and insignificant opinion! kristen, bitter as ever firedancer@postmark.net ======================================================= "those who hear not the music think the dancers mad..." ======================================================= Kellogg Patrick Layne wrote: > Here's another thing about Moxy that has bothered me. > No, I'm not always a bitter person, and I try not > to criticize all the time. It's just that I've > often told friends that I dislike some of Moxy > Fruvous' lyrics, and I thought the people on > this board could relate. Plus, I'm trying to > be more intersting than simply posting > "ThE BaNd RoX!!!!!!" > > (scroll down to read) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - snip - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > I've collected some bad lyrics, they way some would > collect limericks. Here's some of my favorite > bad rhymes, often sung by bands that I really like: > > Eddie Money ("Take Me Home Tonight") > "I feel a hunger... it's a hunger!" > > (snotty comment) > Really, Eddie? Was it a hunger? > > Live ("Century" from _Secret Samadhi_) > "I can smell your armpits/ You stole my idea/ > This puke smells like beer/ And everyone's here" > > (snotty comment) > Gross. They're making a point about rock concerts, > but I really don't want to hear about it. > > Matt Wilson ("Descender" from _Burnt, White, and Blue_) > "He built a dome underneath the lake/ > I think you know what I mean" > > (snotty comment) > Yes, Matt, I know *exactly* what you mean. > > Patrick Kellogg ("Blood Is the Ricochet") > "Static flow and fear of night/ > Here is where I'll ever wait" > > (snotty comment) > What was I thinking when I wrote that? Dreadful, > simply dreadful. I was trying to do "soft rhymes" > in a song, like rhyming night/wait or flow/rose, playing > with alliteration. And I could argue that the lines > refer to a midnight tryst, and if you "really" > knew what the song was about, you'd like the > dark Gothic vibe. "You just don't understand." > > However, that doesn't forgive the fact that the > lyrics suck. Trust me, they sound even worse when > sung by me. > > Ok, now for Moxy Fruvous. There's a lot of MF lyrics I > find pretty bad, but they are often in humorous songs > "...from the Fruvous quill comes a story of love and > illin'". Here, they're trying to be funny, kind of > a white-boy rap that Barenaked Ladies also does. > (leaving aside whether isn't kinda racist to do > bad rap with an exaggerated accent...) > > Instead, the Moxy lyrics that bother me are the ones > that don't quite fit. The ones that seem forced and > detract from the song. The ones that make the band > seem less than polished, like a political folk > quartet (like The Foremen or Mark Russell). > > "Horseshoes" from _wood_ > Look straight at the coming disaster > Realize what you've lost > You keep handing out horseshoes > Horseshoes have gotta be tossed. > > (snotty comment) > This is the lyric that reminded me to write this post. > Since the lyric is in the chorus, it's repeated over > and over again. The four-part harmony just makes it > sound even worse... tight and nasal. > > Somewhere, there's somebody who loves this song. "Oh, > man... you don't get it... they're *horseshoes" and > they've just *gotta* be tossed." Yeah, yeah, it's a > metaphor for loss, for decay, but it strikes me > as trying to be profound without actually being > profound. There's probably a fan that's brought > a horseshoe to a concert for them to sign. > > "Lazlo's Career" from _wood_ > Everyone has a groovy time with Lazlo. > We know the effervesence will be near. > We have lots of friends back in Ontario. (Our home) > But right now, there is no better place than here > for Lazlo's career. > > (snotty comment) > Who is Lazlo? Who is B.J.? Some fan who is in the pocket > of the band might convince me that the song would > mean more to me if I knew Lazlo personally. If I > did, the song would probably be deep. Instead, it > sounds like a personally letter from somebody I don't > know to somebody I've never met. The "groovy" > and "effevesense" lines are typical Moxy: they > probably looked good on paper, but sound > terrible when sung. > > "River Valley" from _Bargainville_ > Is your favourite place controlled by developing ambitions? > Do you think you'll have some power signing a petition? > Are you fine with your surroundings? Are they gonna crumble? > I'm living in the river valley, come and join me for a tumble! > > (snotty comment) > This one reminds me of a bad lyric by Billy Bragg: > "Should I vote red for my class or green for our children?" > ("From Red To Blue" from _William Bloke_) > > This is the kind of lyric that makes right-wing people > make fun of liberals. Heart-felt? Probably. Bathetic? > (Webster's says "insincere or overdone pathos") > Definitely. While Billy's agonizing over socialism vs. > the Greens, Bob Dornan is ordering more bombers. > Boy George said "I'll tumble for ya", and it was a > better lyric when he sang it. > > "Stuck In the 90's" from _Bargainville_ > Tell the world it's your lackey > Abbie Hoffman was wacky > ... > don't you know what it's like to be lost? > and older..."tears on his shoulder" > real men are BOLDER!! > > (snotty comment) > The BOLDER is what gets me here, sung in > good old four-part harmony again. Um, yeah. > Abbie Hoffman was... um.. wacky. Wacky wacky. > And Tim Leary was high. This is a meaningful > commentary on the nineties vs. the sixties? > Actually, I like this song, it's just that > BOLDER makes me giggle. Sorry. > > "Fell In Love" from _Bargainville_ > How many eggs make up a pound? > How many ears of corn in the niblets? > And how big was the bag? > > (snotty comment) > 12? 4? Pretty big? > > "The Drinking Song" from _Bargainville_ > And we'd drink, two gnarly dudes and some records > Much like plates of black food > > (snotty comment) > I'm going to make someone mad here. This is the > favorite song of a lot of people, and I'm sure they > like the black food line. They've probably cooked > an entire meal from the "Johnny Saucep'n" song > and served it on black plate. And had the band sign > it. > > However, when I've played this song for people, > (I do a mediocre version on acoustic guitar) > they sometimes say "what was the food line?" I tell > them I didn't write the song so I couldn't be > held accountable. It's such a song-stopper. > Moxy songs have a mood, a feeling, and then they > break the atmosphere by talking about "bloated > bellies". Worse, the song tells a story without > really telling a story. Some fan could fill me > in on the real-world facts behind this song, > but that's beside the point. > > Like people who think Ben Folds Five's song > "Brick" is a love song, or that the picture > of a guy nailed to a cross is anything but a > disgusting image of torture, I think > you're a bit off if you put your arms > around each other and sway to the beat. > (and I've been guilty of it, too) > Truly thinking about this song makes > me think "Ick. Bummer. Sucks to be him." > > "Darlington Darling" from _Bargainville_ > but you'll never find the right bijou > > (snotty comment) > Couldn't find a better rhyme to the word "two"? > Rhyming successive lines, as Moxy often does, > is really hard to do. While it gives a song > bounce, it tends to force you into choosing > a really bad word to complete the sentence. > Again, this is the in chorus, so to my ear, > it just grates again and again. BEEESHUUUU. > > "Laika" from _Bargainville_ > Now I'm full grown, and I've a spacecraft of my own > But there you sit, still upon your Earthly throne > Hey darling, throw this space-pup a bone > Don't touch that dial, don't hang up that phone > Band's playin' hail to the chief > It puzzles me so... > Don't hang up that phone > > (snotty comment) > Some fan has probably named their dog "space pup". > The "BAND PLAYING HAIL TO THE CHIEF" > rattles around at the end of the song... > another meaningless "tag line". I still can't > quite figure out why Moxy like ending > songs on a sour note. > > (pre-emptive strike against criticism) > > 1) Pat, you just don't get the lyrics > > I've heard this for They Might Be Giants and Soul Coughing, too. Both > bands have fans that read a LOT into the lyrics. Are we all supposed to > read the *correct* interpretation of every song, like freshman English > students? If I misinterpret the symbolism and inner meaning in > the song, will I get a bad grade? > > Maybe the song doesn't mean anything. Maybe the song means something > to the author that you will never, ever understand because they > wrote it about private thoughts. The lyrics above just didn't > resonate with *me*. Your mileage may vary. > > 2) Pat, you seem pretty obsessed with the fans > > Yeah, it's kind of an "easy laugh", and I'm making fun a little bit. > Seeing a Moxy concert for the first time made me wonder, so it's > fresh in my mind. I'm not one for autographs or bringing posters > to concerts, and I really shouldn't make fun of those that do. > It's their kind of fun, and I'm being sarcastic and cynical > in that hip 90's way. I apologize, but it's fun to do. > > 3) Pat, get lost... you're posting too much > > Um, sorry. Actually, I don't have much more to say about > the band, and certainly no more criticism. Just a > few points. I'll try to cut down on my postings. > > Take care, > > Patrick Kellogg > kellogg(ump)sni(&#*&$)net > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 05:00:17 GMT From: LuCkYDaBeD@aol.com Subject: Re: OT: EFO or Arrogant Worms and all this time i thought the story of Los Gatos would go like this: the guy who founded the town was infactuated with his cat. He named it after all cats. He was Spanish. That's it. Ok, I really didn't think that, but hey I wanted to reply! maria ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jun 1999 04:41:02 GMT From: glfwarsong@aol.com.nospam (Maria) Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Jian! kat stated: > *grin* 48 hrs >till ann arbor-- Woo!!! I have been counting down the hours too. Let's just say my family and friends are quite annoyed by me, but, you know, it's Moxy Fruvous! My first show at that. :D Ok, there was really no point to this post. Oh, well. maria wondering why I am about to post this subconscious me: because your addicted silly! me in the nile: no i'm not!! ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v "One day I was feeling low on myself, but then a voice came to me and said, 'Cheer up, things could be worse' . And sure enough, I cheered up, and things got worse."--A sign in a store ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 05:32:35 GMT From: firedancer Subject: Re: boulder show review Lawrence P Solomon wrote: > Excerpts from netnews.alt.music.moxy-fruvous: 12-Jun-99 Re: boulder show > review by firedancer@postmark.net > > kristen, who loves fruvous almost as much as her dog :) > > wow. how much does your dog love Fruvous?!? :) > hmmm, i'd have to say he definitely qualifies as a fruhead, although he hasn't made it to any shows yet. ;) oh and he's concocting a serious plan to woo and marry laika...his biggest hitch is that he just can't seem to aquire the necessary transportation... kristen firedancer@postmark.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 05:17:15 GMT From: trace@frumail.org (Trace) Subject: Re: Criticism: Lyric tags On 13 Jun 1999 22:58:32 GMT, glfwarsong@aol.com (GlfWarSong) wrote: >Then again, maybe Trace knows why the band wrote the tag on. :) I don't *know* a darn thing, but I speculate freely. My guess is as good as any, but probably still way off :-) - -- Trace trace@frumail.org AMM-F: You must be this insane to ride ----- - -Veronica J Gruneberg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 05:06:07 GMT From: trace@frumail.org (Trace) Subject: Re: location of fans (topic, what topic?) On Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:31:20 -0400, chad schrock wrote: >I'm in a Trace/Lori sandwich! Dare I ask, "where's the beef?" Ok, nevermind. I'm better off not knowing :) Why do I feel compelled to fill in for the temporarily absent resident degenerate, Lori? - -- Trace trace@frumail.org AMM-F: You must be this insane to ride ----- - -Veronica J Gruneberg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:18:40 -0400 From: "KatieWow" Subject: Re: Criticism: Lyric tags actually, the guys chose the word rondelle because it refers to a cheese shape [1] to allude to the "moon made of cheese" myth. ~~kate, who can't believe she remembers this crap [1] Interview. "World Cafe." 4.1.97, WXPN, University of Pennsylvania. - -- Kate Leahy kleahy@loyola.edu katiewow@frumail.org ***************************************************************** "Quite frankly, I wish the website would just go down . . . we're starting to make a little bit of money. It's a disaster." "We're about the music." - --The guys, West Coast Live **************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jun 1999 05:08:37 GMT From: luckydabed@aol.com.la.deda (Maria) Subject: Re: Criticism: bad lyrics (long) Patrick, why do you insist that Fruheads *MUST* do such stupid things in your opinion, and the just *HAVE* to have everything signed. Also, you believe we think all their lyrics are good. Now, I agree with you, bands aren't perfect (including MF), but you have to take what you can get. SO DEAL WITH IT! You make us out to be such losers, when we are actually good people Now, what is with all your negative posts? I may be wrong, but only one of your posts hasn't been negative. It was the one regarding tickets still being available for the Boulder show. Would it hurt you so much to post something nice? First impressions die hard, but in my opinion, you seem to enjoy stirring things up and creating controversy. maria would have liked to said more, but I know the keyword *restraint* ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^ You are now officially Lucky Dabbed! Consider yourself special! "Ooooh, luckydab?!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:28:20 -0400 From: "KatieWow" Subject: oh dear okay. i've tried e-mailing patrick privately, but it obviously hasn't worked. patrick, i'm not going to rip your post apart piece by piece. you are more than welcome and entitled to your opinion, but you're accomplishing exactly nothing by your posts. you've insulted fan practices and my religion (something i take quite seriously--anyone who i've told about my little blurt to jian after F+FFC knows that). if you're just trying to get a rise out of us, you really are milking it. a lot. if you really want to become a member of this community and contribute positively to discussion, i think we'd all appreciate it if you exercised some discretion. thanks. ~~kate - -- Kate Leahy kleahy@loyola.edu katiewow@frumail.org ***************************************************************** "Quite frankly, I wish the website would just go down . . . we're starting to make a little bit of money. It's a disaster." "We're about the music." - --The guys, West Coast Live **************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jun 1999 23:33:14 -0700 From: kelloggp@nagita.cs.colorado.edu (Kellogg Patrick Layne) Subject: Re: Criticism: bad lyrics (long) I *am* trying to cut down on the number of posts I've been sending IamIamIam. However, I want to respond to this. >Patrick, why do you insist that Fruheads *MUST* do such stupid things in your >opinion, and the just *HAVE* to have everything signed. Also, you believe we Um, I'm not following you here Maria. I'm not making a blanket statement about all Fruheads. It's much too diverse a community for that. I'm just trying to needle the ones who were waiting for the band after the show to have all 5 CDs signed by all four band members instead of actually *talking* to them, as if they're some sort of automatic autograph machines. And, as people mentioned... one woman had them sign a toilet paper dispenser. I still think that's odd and worthy of comment. >think all their lyrics are good. Now, I agree with you, bands aren't perfect >(including MF), but you have to take what you can get. SO DEAL WITH IT! You I'm dealing, I'm dealing. It's not like I'm staying up nights not sleeping. On the Yes album "Tales From Topographic Oceans", Jon Anderson sings "Mountains come down from the sky and STAND THERE". It's such a bad lyric, it makes me giggle. Worse, the STAND THERE is performed in sixteen part double-tracked harmony, kind of like the "aaaah"s in Queen's theme to Flash Gordon. It's pretentious, but kind or cool and original at the same time. Dare to be silly! It's ok by me... >make us out to be such losers, when we are actually good people Now, what is Hey, I would never say all Moxy fans are losers. I *definitely* don't think that. On a lighter note, on the Live album, a whole crowd cheered at being called losers. Think of that. >with all your negative posts? I may be wrong, but only one of your posts >hasn't been negative. It was the one regarding tickets still being available >for the Boulder show. Would it hurt you so much to post something nice? First >impressions die hard, but in my opinion, you seem to enjoy stirring things up >and creating controversy. Ok, ok, "The band rocks". Ah, let's see "Live Noise" is a really good CD. "wood" is a good CD. "Bargainville is a good CD". Here's one... "You Will Go To the Moon" is a good CD. "The 'b' Album" is a good CD", and "the indie tape is a good tape". "The boys can sure play their instruments" and "they sure sing good". I now return you to your regularly scheduled posts that belabor the obvious. >maria >would have liked to said more, but I know the keyword *restraint* Yeah, I searched on "restraint" as a keyword on ebay... but you wouldn't *believe* the kinky things it came up with Patrick Kellogg kellogg(ert)sni.ent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:15:54 GMT From: LuCkYDaBeD@aol.com Subject: Re: Criticism: bad lyrics (long) In a message dated 6/14/99 1:03:12 AM Central Daylight Time, kelloggp@nagita.cs.colorado.edu writes: > I *am* trying to cut down on the number of posts I've been sending I, personally have no problem with you posting. I mean this IS a newsgroups, and newsgroups ARE for posting. But, maybe, and I will reiterate this, something more positive. ANYTHING more positive. You seem to have a jolly good time posting negative things. Argh, why do I bother. It will just be shot down by you-know-who. maria not-so-anxiously awaiting the response (i know, i know, this is the opposite of what I said above). ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jun 1999 06:26:56 GMT From: aprestin@ccs.neu.garbage.edu Subject: Re: You've inspired a post from me, congratulations :) Kevin Way wrote: [snip] : Because Laika is a song about the dog, Laika, that the Russians sent up : into space and surprise, surprise, left her there. So the last point made : was that the band was playing hail to the chief, that the nation was so : happy about this, but really all they'd done was find a really expensive : and exotic way to starve a dog to death. Not to be pedantic (in this newsgroup? never!), but I think Laika burned up on re-entry, rather than starved to death. Dog-kebabs, anyone? - - A.P. - -- ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jun 1999 06:03:33 GMT From: luckydabed@aol.com.la.deda (Maria) Subject: Re: Criticism: bad lyrics (long) > >>Patrick, why do you insist that Fruheads *MUST* do such stupid things in >your >>opinion, and the just *HAVE* to have everything signed. Also, you believe >we > >Um, I'm not following you here Maria. I'm not making a blanket statement >about >all Fruheads. It's much too diverse a community for that. Okay, I was wrong. But you DO insult me (possibly us) by implying that some of us do silly things. We like to have fun (at risk of making you critisize it). Who cares if somebody has the sudden urge to get an odd thing autographed or do something regarding one of the songs. Although I have never been to a concert of MF's I would think that many Fruheads DO talk to the lads, and get an autograph. Oh my, that is impossible! above statement by me applies to above statement by Patrick below. >to needle the ones who were waiting for the band after the show to have >all 5 CDs signed by all four band members instead of actually *talking* to >them, >as if they're some sort of automatic autograph machines. >And, as people mentioned... one woman had them sign a toilet paper >dispenser. I still think that's odd and worthy of comment. > >>think all their lyrics are good. Now, I agree with you, bands aren't >perfect >>(including MF), but you have to take what you can get. SO DEAL WITH IT! >You > >I'm dealing, I'm dealing. It's not like I'm staying up nights not sleeping. Yeah, but you give many of people on the ng unrest by doing your so-called "dealing". . Dare to >be silly! It's ok by me... Yet you make fun of people who try making a dish or want something autographed (see above). >>make us out to be such losers, when we are actually good people Now, what >is > >Hey, I would never say all Moxy fans are losers. I *definitely* don't think >that. Maybe not all, but many. >On a lighter note, on the Live album, a whole crowd cheered at being called >losers. Think of that. Yeah, but that was meant in a nice way, not a mean (for lack of a better word off the top of my head--sorry Patrick I don't have a gigundo vocab. like you). >>with all your negative posts? I may be Would it hurt you so much to post something nice? >First >>impressions die hard, but in my opinion, you seem to enjoy stirring things >up >>and creating controversy. > >Ok, ok, "The band rocks". Ah, let's see "Live Noise" is a really good CD. >"wood" >is a good CD. "Bargainville is a good CD". Here's one... "You Will Go To the >Moon" >is a good CD. "The 'b' Album" is a good CD", and "the indie tape is a good >tape". >"The boys can sure play their instruments" and "they sure sing good". Oh yes, retaliation for someone wanting you to be nice (oh, a new word for Patrick?). Come on, isn't there ANYTHING you like about the band? ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^ You are now officially Lucky Dabbed! Consider yourself special! "Ooooh, luckydab?!" ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #490 ********************************************