From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #398 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Monday, May 10 1999 Volume 03 : Number 398 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Fruboken show [Alexander Prestin ] Re: Personal Favs (was TCAT) [srm9988n@aol.com.LoriM (Srm9988n)] Re: Please cut it out? :) - a suggestion [srm9988n@aol.com.LoriM (Srm9988] Re: Fruboken show ["^kat^" ] Hoboken Reivewlet ["KatieWow" ] Re: Fruboken show ["KatieWow" ] Re: Height (was Sad Girl) ["KatieWow" ] Re: Height (was Sad Girl) [Mindy J Munson ] Re: gay? SAY WHAT!? [tmbgirl@juno.com] OT: homophobia?? (was: gay? which was: tshirts) [Srm9988n@aol.com] Re: Height (was Sad Girl) [Mindy J Munson ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 10 May 1999 22:58:32 GMT From: Alexander Prestin Subject: Re: Fruboken show David Pirmann wrote: : If they're interested in playing NJ again maybe they should consider : the NJ Performing Arts Center, the Community Theater in Morristown, or : the State Theater in New Brunswick. Or maybe they're too big? And if they ever play CT again, I'd really *love* to see them at Toad's Place in New Haven. It's a moderate-sized club, but it seems to have the perfect "close-ness" that makes for a good Fruvous show. If anyone in the group (or Jude perhaps?) reads this, I hope you'll consider it.. :) - - A.P. (remove the refuse to reply) - -- ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 1999 22:36:58 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.com.LoriM (Srm9988n) Subject: Re: Personal Favs (was TCAT) Teresa wrote of Mel Gibson: >i think >i'm the only person on this planet who doesn't really like him all that >much. Umm, WRONG! His politics are to the right of Attila the Hun, and I just can't get past that even if his eyes are purty. FrüContent: he'd like to pull the plug on feminazis, paranoid minorities and gays ... - -- Lori, rightbrained but otherwise lefty. ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 1999 22:57:07 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.com.LoriM (Srm9988n) Subject: Re: Please cut it out? :) - a suggestion AJ the Wise said: >Somebody in >the know: Is A.F.M.F still viable? While I am hardly in the know, I do know that afmf is available on aol's newsgroup reader, the bane of most net afficionados' existence and yet sometimes Highly Useful. Saves us from DejaNews at any rate. Could and should we create a NEW >newsgroup named, >say, alt.fan.fruvous or alt.fruheads or something? Could we also create a >mail-news >gateway for such a group? And how would we avoid the curse of crossposting >that is >inevitable when one wants to reach ALL the Frufans? Of this i know nothing. What I DO know is that I like Jen's suggestions of starting new subject headers labeled OT as soon as a thread that was about band-related stuff (tshirts) becomes seriously off-topic and not likely to veer back on. And anything that has nothing to do with the band, while it may be worth sharing, should either be MARKED OT from the get-go, or perhaps privately emailed to those the poster feels might be interested rather than to the ng at large. As for the concern of people leaving the ng, I miss certain people horribly. (Cchads, come back!!!) But people leave newsgroups for all sorts of reasons -- not just off-topicality Personal lives change. Circumstances change. Interests change. Hugo and Drea have left for the summer; I expect they'll be back. Maybe Chad just really felt it was time to move on. I wasn't around when CeeCee and Zard and ChrisT were posting heavily; I know the 1st 2 still post occasionally though. People grow, people change. Likewise newsgroups. It's funny, because Valerie and Steve and I were discussing over breakfast on Sunday the viability of afmf as more than a spam trap from which novice fans must be rescued, and whether we could keep 2 ngs going. It's obviously a matter of concern among many members. Our conclusions were that there were 2 possible solutions: 1) making amm-f a moderated newsgroup -- and I didn't like that idea because it REALLY smacks of censorship; 2) reinvigorating the FAQ and posting it on a regular basis so that newcomers know the deal here. I'd be willing to oversee this project, based on the work CeeCee's done, and make sure it gets posted at least once a month. Another idea, which I picked up from alt.tv.homicide, is to have a rotating assigned role of who deals with newcomer welcomes and questions -- especially now that Chad's not here. Each regular could take the job for the week -- what albums does the newsgroup recommend (Live Noise) where do I find info (FDC, FAQ, etc.) That way these posts will not each spawn ten answers -- which, while making the newbies feel welcome, and that's a good thing, also takes up a lot of bandwidth. Just a few ideas. Anyone else? - -- Lori, with way more than .02 -- closer to .11 (yes Val and chad, that was for you :) ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 19:06:25 -0400 From: "^kat^" Subject: Re: Fruboken show Alexander Prestin intuitively suggested: >And if they ever play CT again, I'd really *love* to see them at Toad's >Place in New Haven. It's a moderate-sized club, but it seems to have the >perfect "close-ness" that makes for a good Fruvous show. as a future student of yale university... *yesss!!!* heartily seconded! pleeeese, jude? ok, back to studying for my calculus AP (ikkk)-- ^kat^ "we've run out of things to say but we'll be happy anyway" http://fly.to/the.midway.after.dark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 18:10:13 -0400 From: "KatieWow" Subject: Hoboken Reivewlet well, here i go with the review. i'd like to begin by saying that i did purchase a ticket for the hoboken show--i just didn't have it when i got to the venue. anyway, we got to maxwell's pretty durned early and ended up inside for some food and drink upon the assurance of the manager that we'd be allowed to line up to get into the staging area before people who didn't eat. that was really nice. i was flipping out about not having a ticket (it had sold out), and lori from baltimore helped me devise a bit of a scheme to get in and offered me a glass of wine to calm my nerves (i politely declined, seeing as how getting kicked out of the venue for drinking underage would hardly facilitate my seeing the show). at any rate, we hung around outside the stage doors and listened to the sound check. tobey and i chatted for a moment about cookies and such and then the guys walked by to head off for some food. that was when i began to question the size of the place. no back door? hmm. they finally started letting people in, and lori gave her name for will-call. it turned out they didn't have the ticketmaster list and shoved us aside 'til they found it, letting other people in ahead of us. that sucked. eventually, they just started taking a list of names. so, in a momentary fit of deceitfulness, i gave my name as a will-call and dashed into the venue. hey, i *did* pay for the show :). the room was small. very small. i think the guys gave an audience number like 225. the opening act came through the audience and climbed up on stage. hmm. at any rate, she was okay. amusing, to say the least. the guys came on relatively on-time. only 10 minutes late, i think. they came in through the audience and climbed up on stage, murray in dark jeans and a red button-down shirt (oddly similar to my outfit), jian in jeans and a t-shirt none of us had seen before and the kick-ass yellow-lensed geek glasses. mike sported his essex county sheriff's department shirt and dave was stunning in the seersucker jacket from utica. setlist (not sure whose): Half As Much Horseshoes You Can't Be Too Careful If Only You Knew You Will Go To The Moon When She Talks Pisco Bandito Splatter Splatter Michigan Militia Johnny Saucep'n Independence Day Sad Girl River Valley Get In The Car Psycho Killer Encores: King of Spain I Will Hold On My Poor Generation as promised, the set was very much new-stuff-heavy. jack ross was there (i had noticed him entering with mike before the show) and i'd imagine there were assorted label people there, though i didn't recognize anyone i'd seen before. some notable banter (in no particular order): jian mentioned that the bar they had gone to previous to the show had been essentially empty and lacked a men's bathroom. though with a "certain toss of the hair" jian could have passed for a woman, he decided to forgo attempts at disguising himself and just went in. after sitting down ("so far so good," said dave) he started reading the graffiti on the walls which he deemed similar in content to that in the men's restroom, but much more nicely scripted. he noted that though he knows that men and women are equal and all, he doesn't get why men can't write. murray suggested that perhaps it was due to the fact that men write with jackknives. jian termed male handwriting "neandrathal" and mike commented that though the writing is atrocious, the drawings of bulls and hunters are great. then they played a song :). before "splatter, splatter" dave mentioned that _alien_ had been on HBO the night before and that he hated scary movies. he had run out of _papillon_ in 1978 (?). murray suggested that he simply needed to build up his tolerance. "would that require watching 'i know what you did last summer'?" asked dave. "'i know what your breast size was last summer'" retorted jian. see what we've done? *sigh* at one point early in the set, jian mentioned that they would be playing a great deal of new stuff, so "for those of you who came for the old tunes, fuck you!" a bunch of us covered the ears of toolman's daughter. jian said, "oh, it's nothing she can't hear on 'south park.'" he then apologized for "the phrasing, not the sentiment." i thought it was adorable the way he kept smiling at her through the drum kit all night :). jian mentioned lynne's birthday, and then suggested that everyone buy her a drink. two people could get together and buy her a double, or a family could purchase a super-size. murray suggested just getting a slurpee and dumping some alcohol in. the suggestion was met with a high pitched shriek, and murray admitted that the idea intrigued even him (strange for a guy who later admitted that his true poison was bourbon sours). early in the set, dave handed off a guitar to be tuned, and it got passed through the crowd. jian said that the passing of the guitar was an ancient persian ritual. at every major event in persia, a guitaar would be passed above the heads of the muslim people. murray noted that it was important to the show that the guitars be imbued with the energy of the audience and that the bass and then the drum kit would follow. "a whiff of allah and a touch of the masses," jian said. mike revealed that "a whiff of allah" and "a touch of the masses" were the titles of the next two albums. jian put on his best burnt-out british rock star voice (ala "that's any good") and said "after 'a touch of the masses' was when dave really started spiralling downward with the drug problem," then grabbed the mic and in an overly dramatic monotone shouted "VH1 behind the music. we'll be back with drug problems, disappointment, and failed marriages." this became a runnin theme throughout the evening, with all of the guys playing old briish rock star and discussing drugs, disappointment, and failed marriages. jian mentioned at one point that he felt like he was at a basement party. dave noted that the chips and pretzels were in the other room and that janine and someone else were having their first lesbian experience upstairs. before "when she talks," mike mentioned that the song may or may not be on the next album, which led to lots of comments on mike's cryptic nature. before "river valley" the guys broke out in a mixed-up version of "kill the planet." very nice :). at the end of the show, jian told us that we should vacate the room, but be sure to hang around the bar area to buy things for the band later. we did so, talking to murray and dave and getting ourselves something to eat. we marvelled as jian table-hopped and chatted up a storm. he must have had some friends there that night :). after saying goodbye to tobey and finally meeting cal (who complimented me on the "fine cookie" he'd had), we chowed down then split to drive debb to the train station and head home. after a stop at molly pitcher for cinnabons, we motored down toward the philadelphia are to warm beds and lovely frümemories. ~~kate - -- kate leahy kleahy@loyola.edu katiewow@frumail.org ***************************************************************** evil is just special with a criminal record. - --doug, 3.26.99 everybody loves a happy ending but we don't even try we go straight on past pretending to the part where everyone loves to cry - --elvis costello **************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:13:00 -0400 From: "KatieWow" Subject: Re: Fruboken show hee hee. not after what they did to jim morrison in new haven :). ~~kate - -- kate leahy kleahy@loyola.edu katiewow@frumail.org ***************************************************************** evil is just special with a criminal record. - --doug, 3.26.99 everybody loves a happy ending but we don't even try we go straight on past pretending to the part where everyone loves to cry - --elvis costello **************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:12:17 -0400 From: "KatieWow" Subject: Re: Height (was Sad Girl) yeah--mindy's brother is cute! ~~kate, who is a little disturbed. isn't he like 16? oh dear. - -- kate leahy kleahy@loyola.edu katiewow@frumail.org ***************************************************************** evil is just special with a criminal record. - --doug, 3.26.99 everybody loves a happy ending but we don't even try we go straight on past pretending to the part where everyone loves to cry - --elvis costello **************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 00:14:07 GMT From: Mindy J Munson Subject: Re: Height (was Sad Girl) >>>, I've noticed from my pix that he is the same height as >>>Jian =+) Coincidence? I think not > >Jiel replied: >> >>Hey I would take Jian ... Anyday. > >Umm, if the bro Mindy's referring to is Ben, think twice! He's CUTE! And I >say that as someone who's way too old for him. Lori! You don't know how close you are. Everytime I show the picture of Jian and Ben to friends Im like "Isn't he cute?" and they say yeah, and then I get all pissed and say "not that one! The one with the hair!" I mean my brother is cute,but why the hell would you pick him over Jian? fruchild, *canoodle!* ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 00:17:56 GMT From: tmbgirl@juno.com Subject: Re: gay? SAY WHAT!? what the hell is your problem with me and to a greater extent with the world? >We are all homophobic, and racist and classist >Minimizing it is the next. I meant only to point out that you need to >consider what you are saying. if you're trying to say that no matter what, i've got unconscious motives (cuz they're definitely not conscious) against everyone that isn't exactly like me i fail to see your "logical" reasoning there. Ok, so just because i can't understand certain situations (being gay, being a different race) to the greatest extent could imply that i'm not fully aware of everything that they're going through but i don't see how that means that i'm automatically against these people and their actions and thus prejudiced. i don't know about you, but just hearing about other people being or watching others be racist *absolutely* does not make me more inclined to be a racist myself. Nor does hearing or watching people be cruel to gays appear to me to be a great idea... gee... i think i'll join in with them. Thus their prevalence in society has very little or no impact on my own thought processes. (yes, you are right that it does make a difference... but it doesn't mean that that difference automatically means that it has changed my mind). Not all people are afraid of every little difference in the world, and once you become more accepting of the fact that you are different then you'll be more capable to accept other people for their differences. Don't sit there and tell me that i'm racist, homophobic, or anything else just because you personally harbor those feelings and think that everyone else is exactly like you and too much of a weakling to go against society and popular say and make up their own mind. I've grown up in a pretty crappy part of denver my entire life. I attended public schools that were located in "the ghetto" (of denver that's not much but...) my entire life. At school, i did not have *any* white friends until i was in high school and until then, it never dawned on me. I don't even know if i was aware of the fact that i was white. it didn't make a difference. It never has, i hung out with the people i found interesting, fun and otherwise just liked. I've always done that... i don't care if you're a freekin alien (come on we all like a certain band member and he's an alien) if you're interesting and offer some sort of "smiles and cheer" for me i'll chill with you. Ask any of my friends what my goal in life is? "she wants to bring smiles and cheer to anyone around her." If you're sad, i'll bring a smile to your face. If you're mad --- i'll make you laugh. i won't sit there and think, hmm... that's baumqueeshashananayolondafajitamimosapudica [1] i don't like her becuase she's white, she's poorer than i am, and oh my god, i think she's gay on top of that. whatever. On top of that, you say all people are "classist." What the hell? Ok, so when my buds and i would walk down the streets of littleton... people would lean their heads out of the cars driving by and yell "DIRTIES!!" because we were the "ghetto children." And when our high school would have a game against theirs and we'd over hear them saying "oh my god that high school's in the ghetto... don't get them mad or they'll shoot us." etc. Did we get angry? no. i just felt bad that these people were so overprotected and naive that they couldn't understand anything other than stereotypes. If you think that that made me dislike people that appeared to have more than me (coming from the burbs etc.) you're wrong. i felt sorry for them because they don't know what the hell the rest of the world is like because they're too focused on what they're thinking. something i think you, leah, are guilty of. open up "spend a day in the ghetto" if you will. > I meant only to point out that you need to >consider what you are saying. take your own advice. take it easy, JOrdaN http://www2.netcom.com/~arnot/joda/bootlegs.html [1] that would be my middle name --- sorry. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 00:30:34 GMT From: Srm9988n@aol.com Subject: OT: homophobia?? (was: gay? which was: tshirts) Okay, kids, let's all calm down here and realize that while nobody's calling anybody anything, there are differing sensibilities and sensitivities here and none of them is WRONG. tmbgirl wrote, concerning her and her friend noticing that k@ is attractive: >>>>makes us sound like we're gay... honest... we're each happily involved >with >>>> guys... no need to worry!) which did cause me a little concern, because it wasn't clear to me what she thought I wasn't supposed to worry about, and up until that point I wasn't worried about *anything*. So I answered: >>and this would be a cause for worry whyyyy?? >>Just wondering. to which she replied: >so tom didn't think we were trying to steal her from him, silly! Okay, um, that wasn't clear from the reference then. Maybe if TOM had been told not to worry, rather than all of us, I'd have understood. :) Then Leah said: >I don't really know what to say to this, but I'll say that my heart sunk a >little when I read it. Perhaps nothing was meant by it, but there are >some of us out here who ARE queer. It's a wonderful thing to be. I hope >you didn't mean it when you said "no need to worry." =( exactly. Yes, there are a lot of people -- straight, gay, bisexual or "trisexual" (Frücontent!), whose hearts WILL sink when they read something that *seems* to indicate people might have cause to "worry" about someone being gay. This is NOT like worrying about somebody having the flu. It is worrying about an integral part of someone's identity, and to worry about is to indicate that it is in some way considered a damaged identity. tmbgirl, horrified, then responded: >Before another one of you yells at me and tells me i'm prejudiced please >read this so that i don't have to sit here and a) feel terrible that >someone would say i was I'm not sure anyone said you were; we questioned the wording because it looked like a statement that *might* have been unthinking; that we *might* have misinterpreted; or that *might* actually be homophobic, but that definitely touched some sensibilities. I was trying to clarify, and probably Leah was too. You say you're not prejudiced, and in the absence of any evidence to the contrary I believe you, Jordan. :) and b) so i don't have to reply to 30 more messages where people misinterpret what i'm saying. Here's the heart of it: misinterpretation. which is equal parts wording, and how it resonates out of other people's experiences. Which is why wording IS critically important, as Jordan has found (much to her regret, apparently.) >GEEZ kids... my absolute best friend in the entire world is gay... >please!!! i meant nothing by it. GRRRRR *GROWL* ready to jump at anything are we? Now this is where I get concerned again, because I don't think anyone jumped at anything. I, a straight woman, was concerned because I wasn't sure what Jordan meant by this, and I knew if I didn't know then neither would other people -- including this ng's not inconsiderable gay readership. Leah obviously had the same "sinking feeling" when she read it. To dismiss this reaction as jumping all over it is to minimize some people's very real pain, and comes dangerously close to calling gays "paranoid minorities" (more Frücontent!) If people react badly to something, that does NOT automatically mean that they are over- sensitive. It means that communication has broken down, usually on BOTH sides, and needs to be re-established with a little more care. That involves growth on both sides, which I think is A Good Thing. tmbgirl continued: >as i previously stated. Kat appears to be a happily married woman. ok? >I didn't want tom to think that i'm sitting there complimenting her in >the hopes that i could like steal her away from him, k? See, the "you" that was not supposed to worry seemed to be all of us in the ng, not just Tom and k@, hence my confusion. then to Leah she said: >oh jesus. i had all intentions of meaning "no need to worry...that we're >trying to steal ya away." don't read too deeply into things that aren't >there. We only read what WAS there, Jordan, and we were hoping what WAS there didn't really indicate your feelings. That's all. I'm not trying to hop all over you, honestly. But as Valerie said, the written word, if not written carefully and specifically, can betray you -- so please keep that in mind, especially with an audience this broad. There are about 40 active members of this newsgroup, not to mention passerby and lurkers, and most of them have never met you and have no idea what kind of person you are, except from what we read. So it is an injustice to yourself to write things that cause these kinds of questions to arise, when a little more explanation initially would go a long way to make it a complete non-issue. I think most of us have made these wording mistakes, and they do cause pain. But I don't think anyone's trying to say you're an awful person, to start a flame war, or to do anything but clarify what you said so we can go back to discussing less inflammatory and painful things, knowing a little more about each other and about how to communicate. >*****I am refraining from posting until i find it a little more necessary >(when the colorado show comes up)...not like that's a big difference from >the past (as much as i really love hearing about your breast sizes) but >damn look at what happens when i try to be nice *grrr*.***** Please don't! Your input is valuable, even when it causes a heated discussion. And heated discussions are NOT bad things, though when you're in the center of them they sometimes feel that way. We can all learn from each other. k@ said: > *did* totally understand, and anyone who's trying to make a big case >about it needs to chill out and THINK before they go accusing people of >being prejudiced or whatever. Again, k@, you a) know Jordan personally, and b) had a different perspective. I don't see anyone being uptight here or accusing anyone of anything; Leah and I just questioned what she meant by that comment, because it meant something different to us (and to AJ) than it did to you, Tom, Jordan, and Valerie. And my perspective was: this wording could REALLY hurt people's feelings, whether or not it's intended as homophobic -- and there IS no right or wrong perspective on feelings. >It seems that too often here (probably as on any newsgroup) people are >way too quick to jump on any little innocuous comment, even though they >clearly know how it was meant, because YOU clearly knew how it was meant does not mean we all did. >just because they take issue with the >wording. I've seen a lot of wonderful, intelligent and well-intentioned people get needlessly hurt by this - sometimes to the point of being >discouraged from ever posting again I know some of the situations you are referring to, and I agree, but there is a difference between hopping all over someone for creativity and stating an opinion, and merely questioning what they meant by a statement. > - just so some insensitive jerk can >have the satisfaction of nitpicking and patronizing. I don't think Leah or I have been insensitive, jerky, picking nits or patronizing anyone. I think Jordan unintentionally, and evidently innocently, hit a nerve, and we pointed that out. It is something we all need to be aware of in dealing with other people who don't necessarily have all the same information and perspectives stored in their brains. And on the one hand, we are hypersensitive to the point of needing to chill out, while on the other we are INsensitive? I don't quite follow that. We haven't called names, haven't gotten visibly angry over this, haven't said to anyone "you've got it all wrong, why can't you read plain English" or words to that effect. We just read the same words from a different perspective than you have -- and those words can hurt, believe me. VERY much. I have seen it happen many times. To then jump all over the hurting person because they are hurting, and call them names because of that, doesn't seem fair. And no, that wasn't an attack on k@! She's defending Jordan and Jordan's feelings, and her own perspective on Jordan, against a perceived threat. I recognize that reaction; I've done it. That doesn't mean the tactics one uses at these times are fair. Honestly, Jordan Baumshananayolondafajitamimosapudica, I knew exactly what you meant by that, and I can't imagine how anyone would take it any other way. We did. Plain and simple. And if two of us did, I'm wondering how many more did who just don't want to dive into this fight. to Jordan she said: >did make my day when I was feeling pretty rotten about myself? sorry you're feeling down, k@. :( >Don't be a stranger. Amen! Leah then added: >Listen, no offense, really. However, just because your best freind is gay >doesn't mean that you are not homophobic. Homophobia is so imbedded in >our society that it is impossible to not have it affect you. Exactly. In the most unintentional ways, to the point where we can hurt those we love the most just because we don't understand. >We are all homophobic, and racist and classist. Even homosexuals. Even people of color. Even the "lower classes". Seems illogical, but Leah's right: the messages are so pervasive that no one can help it. Why do so many gay teenagers and young adults kill themselves? Because society tells them to loathe themselves -- and as products of that society, they do, much as they try to overcome it, much as they try to believe they should accept and find pride in who they are. That is why the unintended meanings of our casual conversations hurt so much -- they reinforce that, even among friends, even among the educated, that socialization forms us all -- and striates society in our minds into those who are okay, (straight, white, middle class or "better") and those who are at best less-okay, at worst all sorts of right-wing epithets. >Recognising this is one step. The most vital one. >Minimizing it is the next. I meant only to point out that you need to >consider what you are saying. Always. A fact of life, and there are still going to be misunderstandings. Which is why wwe have to keep talking to each other, not get defensive when someone questions us and stop talking. Really, Jordan. Keep posting! - -- Lori /kicks away soapbox and drops, comatose, to floor ***************************** what makes a person so poisonous righteous that they'd think less of anyone who just disagreed he's just a pacifist, she's just a patriot If I said you were crazy would you have to fight me? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 00:51:42 GMT From: Mindy J Munson Subject: Re: Height (was Sad Girl) nope 19... and single as of a week before frucon =+) fruchild, *canoodle!* On Mon, 10 May 1999 20:12:17 -0400 "KatieWow" writes: >yeah--mindy's brother is cute! >~~kate, who is a little disturbed. isn't he like 16? oh dear. > >-- >kate leahy >kleahy@loyola.edu >katiewow@frumail.org >***************************************************************** >evil is just special with a criminal record. >--doug, 3.26.99 >everybody loves a happy ending but we don't even try >we go straight on past pretending to the part >where everyone loves to cry >--elvis costello >**************************************************************** > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #398 ********************************************