From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V2 #122 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Monday, December 14 1998 Volume 02 : Number 122 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: America, it's right here south of Canada, north of Mexico [elrond@fel] Re: Greeting from Scotland [elrond@fellspt.charm.net (Matt James)] jist wondering [shazalinrea@juno.com (Mindy J Munson)] Re: jist wondering [Mulder4213@aol.com] Re: jist wondering [petit_chou@juno.com] Re: cd's [nafio@my-dejanews.com] Re: Indie Tape ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: California Dreamline [cookie ] Re: jist wondering [Mulder4213@aol.com] Re: Indie Tape [vika@ibm.net (Vika Zafrin)] Re: fruGifts for Fruvous? [fruwench@aol.com (FruWench)] Re: jist wondering [shazalinrea@juno.com (Mindy J Munson)] Re: Greeting from Scotland [shazalinrea@juno.com (Mindy J Munson)] Re: Indie Tape [ceelove@ibm.net (Colleen Campbell)] Re: groupies v. confectioners (was: another Pointe-Claire review) [ceelo] Re: Bottom Line shows [ceelove@ibm.net (Colleen Campbell)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 14 Dec 1998 05:47:15 GMT From: elrond@fellspt.charm.net (Matt James) Subject: Re: America, it's right here south of Canada, north of Mexico LeSystemeD (lesystemed@aol.com) wrote: : In article <5679946a.366495c9@aol.com>, Srm9988n@aol.com wrote: : >>Mais Marie-Claude Je suspecte que l'expression <<États-Uniens>> est un : >mot : >>de quebecois, pas francais. N'est-ce pas? : > : "Etats-Unis" c'est francais. Je ne connais pas "Etats Uniens". Now wait a minute, wasn't it bilingualism that nearly separated Quebec from Canada? Do we want this mailing list to split over the same bilingualism? Isn't that why the States are trying to ban teaching in Spanish to Spanish speaking kids in school? - -Matt, the voice of reason :) "I grew up in Enniskillen, I grew up Innis Kathleen too Oh what a clever boy to watch your hometown be destroyed" - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt James Voice: (301) 231-9898 x. 121 TYC Associates email: mjames@tyc.com Rockville, MD alternate: mattj@charm.net http://www.tyc.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 1998 05:42:24 GMT From: elrond@fellspt.charm.net (Matt James) Subject: Re: Greeting from Scotland Mindy J Munson (shazalinrea@juno.com) wrote: : >Can I take it from that that Scots films such as Trainspotting and : >Braveheart : >are never far from your video player? ;-) Funny thing about : >Braveheart was : >that they had the Battle of Stirling Bridge without a bridge in sight! : > Now, : >I can testify that there is indeed a bridge there so it just goes to : >show : >that, erm, er, it was filmed in Ireland! : >Ross : Brave heart!!! So good! It is one of my favorite movies and definitly my : favorite "war movie". Sad thing though... Never seen Trainspotting =.+( : (insert remarks about my sanity here) Did anyone ever see the Dr. Katz when the guy on the couch was talking about Braveheart and he said something like: "Doc, if I was ever in that battle in Braveheart, I'd be in the back getting coffee and donuts ready for the guys after the battle was over" hehe twas funny, indeed! - -Matt "Oh I know it's gonna happen because I believe in the Certainty of Chance" - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt James Voice: (301) 231-9898 x. 121 TYC Associates email: mjames@tyc.com Rockville, MD alternate: mattj@charm.net http://www.tyc.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:07:59 GMT From: shazalinrea@juno.com (Mindy J Munson) Subject: jist wondering I Was jist wondering if there are any Virginan Fruheads out there? I went from a FruMecca (Rochester) to a FruDesert (Williamsburg). Help! Fruchild ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:47:19 GMT From: Mulder4213@aol.com Subject: Re: jist wondering not me! I'm a new yorker, personally... upstate, not the city. any other upstaters out there? dan--the spookiest fruhead you ever did see ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:05:29 GMT From: petit_chou@juno.com Subject: Re: jist wondering I looked really quickly at this post and thought it said, "any VIRGIN Fruheads." I snorted, looked again, and calmed myself down. Yeah, like we need to have THAT ethical discussion! : ) Heather Moore On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:07:59 GMT shazalinrea@juno.com (Mindy J Munson) writes: >I Was jist wondering if there are any Virginan Fruheads out there? I >went from a FruMecca (Rochester) to a FruDesert (Williamsburg). >Help! > >Fruchild ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:02:27 GMT From: nafio@my-dejanews.com Subject: Re: cd's gknap@uoguelph.ca wrote: *happy dance* Look, look.. another U of Guelpher likes Früvous. That makes.. 3 (Me, Heather Fraser whom none of you know but who will make an appearance in Windsor I think, and now Graham) Welcome! You went to a show that I swore I was going to go to and didn't. Silly silly me. If I find it again, I'm the girl wandering around campus with the a.m.m-f button (button with the back picture from "b" on it). Fiona - -- "I'm SO a Dave's people if it weren't for Mike..." - -Marie-Claude Nov 16/98 - -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:24:02 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: Indie Tape Vika Zafrin wrote: > My part in the discussion was never about legality. Morally, it is > wrong to sell someone else's art. Yes, I consider the Indie Tape art > -- it is a recording, thus the equivalent for a musician of a painting > to a painter. When you sell the recording (yes, even a tape of it, if > it's a master copy), you're selling your art. And art can never be sold, except by it's creator? Wow. That seems like a pretty extreme position. So there should be no art dealers? No used book stores? No used record stores? No Antique shops? And if my mom buys a hideous painting from an artist and then dies, leaving it to me, I can't get rid of it? I have to hang it in a closet forever because it is art and I have no right to sell it? I don't think that is a workable policy. > And, though your point > about the architect and the house was well taken, Danke :) > I don't believe it's > the same issue here. Yes, if the architect considers what he does > *art*, the result of his/her own creativity and to be taken as such, > as opposed to a functional thing to live in, they have every moral > right to request that they control who and how and when it is sold to, > as far as I am concerned. I think you'd have a hard time finding an architect that DOESN'T view his or her work as art. I don't think I understand this distinction between the functional and art. Cannot art be functional? Is that which functions never a work of art? What about furniture making? Sewing? Pottery? Instrument making? How about computer programming? I can make a good argument for almost ANYTHING being art. If nobody but the creator has the right to buy or sell art, our entire economy would collapse and civilization would come to a standstill. This would be even more true in the ancient world where more things were made by hand. > The Indie Tape, I don't believe it's a > commodity. The whole "collectibles" thing has weirded me out ever > since I got to this country, so I'm not even going to go into how > morally wrong I believe that is... UNLESS you're talking about stuff > like baseball cards, which are very rarely considered masterpieces of > photography and biographical writing. Ok, I can see that collecting might seem kind of weird to you, coming as you did from outside this culture. (I suppose collecting is about as antithetical to communism as you could be, since it is owning things merely for the purpose of owning them.) However I don't see how you can never view art as a commodity... Wait, yes I sort of do! In a perfect socialist world artists would be supported by the collective by virtue of the intrinsic value in what they do. They would never have to sell their art to live. They would merely create, and then the product would be available for everyone to enjoy. Is that anything like the ethic you were taught as a child? Coming from somewhere like that as a starting place I CAN see how you might intrinsically reject the idea of art as a commodity. But having grown up in a capitalist system, it seems natural and obvious to me that art is a commodity. It is something artists produce and sell to earn income. It's commercial value is related to it's popularity and its availability. To my way of thinking, art is rarely as sacrosanct as you seem to consider it to be. I'm curious? Do you think Fruvous feels that they should control the destinies of every copy of their Indie tape? I've not asked any of them that question, but I've never gotten the impression that they do either. I guess in the end I sort of see where you are coming from, but I have to stick to my guns and insist that in the world we live in, art is most definitely a commodity. Incidentally, have you really NEVER shopped in a used record or book store? I'd be pretty surprised to hear that you haven't, but it seems to me that if you feel that an artist should control every copy of his or her work forever, then there is no way to justify the existence of such stores. I have a question for you? If the band started going around saying "You know the indie tape is shit. We weren't any good back then. We'd prefer to be known by our current talents, so everyone please erase your indie tapes" What would you do? Bare in mind that we are not talking about a bootleg that the band generously allowed you to record, we are talking about a commercially released tape that you purchased legitimately and paid MONEY for, A tape that you OWN. Everybody, straw poll, what would you do in the above situation? I for one would keep MY tape. I don't see that the bands wishes would come into that situation. Another hypothetical: You go to a gallery and buy a painting. It is meant to be hung vertically, but you like the way it looks turned 90 degrees to horizontal. Can you hang your painting the way you like it, or is there a moral imperative at work which forces you to conform to the original intentions of the artist? Wanting to know, A.J. > > Go decipher THAT for coherence. :) Hey, I was doing ok until I started to fall asleezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz A.J. - -- Epitaph on a dead blues singer's gravestone: "I didn't wake up this morning . . ." _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:56:52 -0800 From: cookie Subject: Re: California Dreamline Nicole the Wonder Nerd wrote: > > In article <36702618.5193@passport.ca>, Moxy says... > > > >Attention LA Frufans! > > > >We have a California date on January 7, 1999 at The Roxy in Los Angeles! > >... > >Thur Jan 7 Los Angeles, CA The Roxy > > Hail Californians! (Hail to the rest of you, too, but this is > primarily for them. Us. Whatever.) > A couple of questions: > > When does the show start (doors, opener, Fruvous)? Not sure. Generally, doors are around 8 p.m., and showtimes are late. It's also pretty common for there to be more than one support act. I would expect the headliner to go onstage around 11 p.m. or so. I'll check into it and get back to you with more definite information. > How long is the drive from LAX to the Roxy? From Burbank Int'l to the > Roxy? Please take traffic into account. WOW! What a deceptively complicated question! It all depends ENTIRELY on what time of day. LAX is probably the quickest. It's definitely the closest and most direct route. To go from LAX to the Roxy could take anywhere from 1/2 hour (absolutely no traffic) to 1 1/2 hours (rush hours.) I would plan on the actual drive time taking an average of around an hour. The rush hour for driving north on the 405 would be in the morning. If your flight is in the afternoon or evening, you should be driving against traffic. DIRECTIONS FROM LAX: Take Century Blvd. west approximately 3 miles to the 405 north. Take the 405 north to the Sunset Blvd. exit, which is located just south of the Hollywood Hills. (If you go over the hills, you've gone too far.) On Sunset Blvd., make a right (east) and drive about 4 miles to the Roxy. It will be on your left. (Sorry I don't have the street address handy. However, it's located on the Strip next to The Rainbow, and is one block west of the Whiskey-A-Go-Go.) From the Burbank airport, the directions are more complicated and you have to deal with three major commuter freeways instead of one. I've never actually driven that route in its entirety, but MINIMUM drive time would probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 hour (maybe a bit less.) With traffic, it could be considerably more. I would allow at about 1 1/2 hours average drive time--just to be sure you aren't late. The rush hour time for driving west on the 134 and 101 freeways is in the evening. (Which is another reason why I would recommend LAX if your flight is in the evening.) DIRECTIONS FROM BURBANK: From the airport, you need to take Hollywood Way south until you hit the 134 freeway. Take 134 west to the 101 west (also posted as the Ventura freeway.) Take 101 west to 405 south. This will take you over the hills to the Sunset Blvd. exit. make a left (east) and drive about 4 miles to the Roxy. It will be on your left. Again, these times depend on what time of day, and whether or not there are any accidents on the freeway. If it's raining, tack on an addition 1/2 hour minimum. (People here don't know how to drive in the rain, so they just smash into each other instead of slowing down.) Ideally, I would recommend flying into LAX, but if you get a substantially cheaper flight into Burbank, and you have enough time before the show, it would be worth it. Besides, that way you also get to view BOTH the beautiful San Fernando Valley AND Hollywood! > Thanks in advance. > > --nicole twn You're very welcome! I hope this information is helpful. Let me know if you have any other questions. Cookie respond to: cookie@2cowherd.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:55:48 GMT From: Mulder4213@aol.com Subject: Re: jist wondering In a message dated 12/14/98 2:03:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, petit_chou@juno.com writes: > I looked really quickly at this post and thought it said, "any VIRGIN > Fruheads." I snorted, looked again, and calmed myself down. Yeah, like > we need to have THAT ethical discussion! : ) lol : ) i thought the same thing, i thought i was just being dirty....guess we know what's on the minds of numerous fruheads.... dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:32:53 GMT From: vika@ibm.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Indie Tape "A.J. LoCicero" delighted us with: >And art can never be sold, except by it's creator? Wow. That seems like a >pretty extreme position. *shrug* Sorry. All I did was express my opinion. >So there should be no art dealers? I've never understood "art *dealing*". It just sounds bad to me. But if you're going to go in the commercial vein, art dealers (only in MY *personal* opinion) are only not slimeballs when they are directly authorized by the artist. You're welcome to think whatever you want; but this is my opinion. I HATE art dealers. The mere concept. >No used book >stores? No used record stores? Both are good for the average not-rich consumer, but ultimately do hurt the artists, yes. >No Antique shops? Dead artists, as I've said elsewhere, are a whole 'nother story. >And if my mom buys a >hideous painting from an artist and then dies, leaving it to me, I can't >get rid of it? Selling it is fine. Selling it for much more than its original value, WHEN/IF the artist is still alive, is something I would never do. I me mine. Not talking about anybody but me. YOU can do whatever you want with the hideous painting. (Kudos to whoever got the musical reference in that paragraph.) >I don't think I understand this distinction between >the functional and art. Cannot art be functional? Is that which functions >never a work of art? What about furniture making? Sewing? Pottery? >Instrument making? How about computer programming? I can make a good >argument for almost ANYTHING being art. Agreed. But *I* would never presume to AUCTION off ANYone else's art; IF I can find the maker I'll ask them. >Ok, I can see that collecting might seem kind of weird to you, coming as >you did from outside this culture. (I suppose collecting is about as >antithetical to communism as you could be, since it is owning things merely >for the purpose of owning them.) However I don't see how you can never >view art as a commodity... Sorry, dear, I don't. Art is art. Treating it as a commodity belittles it, in my mind. >Wait, yes I sort of do! In a perfect socialist world artists would be >supported by the collective by virtue of the intrinsic value in what they >do. They would never have to sell their art to live. jWell, the truth is that they do; but respect for art is conceptualized completely differently where I come from, yes. >But having grown up in a capitalist system, it seems natural and obvious to >me that art is a commodity. It is something artists produce and sell to >earn income. Nothing wrong with that, except auctioning an artist's work off without their knowledge/consent. >I'm curious? Do you think Fruvous feels that they should control the >destinies of every copy of their Indie tape? I've not asked any of them >that question, but I've never gotten the impression that they do either. I have a feeling they don't care, based on something Jian apparently said to someone who won the Indie Tape at FruCon I (something about selling it for $100, do it,man). My argument has naught to do with Fruvous. It's an inherent ill feeling I get when I see people auctioning stuff like this off. >I guess in the end I sort of see where you are coming from, but I have to >stick to my guns and insist that in the world we live in, art is most >definitely a commodity. Incidentally, have you really NEVER shopped in a >used record or book store? Of course I have. And I will continue to. But I *am* aware that it hurts the artist, ultimately, so while I may not think twice about buying a Robert Heinlein book in a used store, I may do otherwise for Craig Arnold (a budding poet). >I have a question for you? If the band started going around saying "You >know the indie tape is shit. We weren't any good back then. We'd prefer >to be known by our current talents, so everyone please erase your indie >tapes" What would you do? Show me an artist who really makes such a request, then we'll talk. :) >Another hypothetical: You go to a gallery and buy a painting. It is meant >to be hung vertically, but you like the way it looks turned 90 degrees to >horizontal. Can you hang your painting the way you like it, or is there a >moral imperative at work which forces you to conform to the original >intentions of the artist? Again, I've never heard of an artist who wanted their painting/whatever viewed from a certain angle. The very first thing I learned in my theatre design class is always to view your own work from different angles, distance, etc. Anyway, I know there's another response to my post floating about, but I won't bore you with all of this again. Again, these are MY opinions. Take them or leave them. - -v, walking out the door to Providence Vika Zafrin vika@ibm.net "The wonderful thing about Shakespeare is that when it's done well, it makes people feel smarter than they are. As opposed to dumber than they are. There is really no in-between." - Spencer Golub ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 1998 12:21:00 GMT From: fruwench@aol.com (FruWench) Subject: Re: fruGifts for Fruvous? And WHERE is this wonderful store??? ladywench FruSpace - We came, we saw, we slept on the floor . . . "For we can still love the world, who find a famished kitten on the step and know recesses for it from the fury of the street" - Hart Crane "Chaplinesque" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:10:45 GMT From: shazalinrea@juno.com (Mindy J Munson) Subject: Re: jist wondering LOL!!!!!! Fruchild On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:05:29 GMT petit_chou@juno.com writes: >I looked really quickly at this post and thought it said, "any VIRGIN >Fruheads." I snorted, looked again, and calmed myself down. Yeah, >like we need to have THAT ethical discussion! : ) > >Heather Moore > >On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:07:59 GMT shazalinrea@juno.com (Mindy J Munson) >writes: >>I Was jist wondering if there are any Virginan Fruheads out there? I > >>went from a FruMecca (Rochester) to a FruDesert (Williamsburg). >>Help! >> >>Fruchild > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get >completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:10:45 GMT From: shazalinrea@juno.com (Mindy J Munson) Subject: Re: Greeting from Scotland >Did anyone ever see the Dr. Katz when the guy on the couch was >talking about Braveheart and he said something like: >"Doc, if I was ever in that battle in Braveheart, I'd be in >the back getting coffee and donuts ready for the guys after >the battle was over" hehe twas funny, indeed! >-Matt >"Oh I know it's gonna happen because I believe in the Certainty >of Chance" >-- > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Matt James Voice: (301) 231-9898 x. 121 >TYC Associates email: mjames@tyc.com >Rockville, MD alternate: mattj@charm.net >http://www.tyc.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > No, I didn't which is sad 'cause I used to watch Dr.Katz religiously (after the animaion stopped pissing me off =+)) Fruchild ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:51:09 GMT From: ceelove@ibm.net (Colleen Campbell) Subject: Re: Indie Tape On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:32:53 GMT, vika@ibm.net (Vika Zafrin) wrote: >>I have a question for you? If the band started going around saying "You >>know the indie tape is shit. We weren't any good back then. We'd prefer >>to be known by our current talents, so everyone please erase your indie >>tapes" What would you do? > >Show me an artist who really makes such a request, then we'll talk. >:) Cat Stevens. (Can't remember what he changed his name to.) Le Significante Othyr and I were talking about this last night, how the artist wished he could take back everything he said, after he converted to Islam. He doesn't license reissues of his work; the only stuff out there is what is already owned by the record company. Would you buy his work now--or listen to it--knowing that the artist himself is opposed to your doing so? Does it show more respect for the artist to value his output or his current viewpoint? Odd situation. If Fruvous seriously asked me to erase my indie tape--well, ouch. If they were offended by their work at the time, morally opposed to it in some way (they regreted the "blow me" reference in the background that everyone else seems to be able to hear that I can't, fer example), then I would probably think about it a long time and regretfully dispose of the work. But if they were just embarrassed about the work, thinking it juvenile, no, I wouldn't. I respect them, but I don't ask perfection from them; I ask that they continue to evolve and explore aspects of themselves and their careers, and having their early work still in existence would be a facet of that. The long, jam version of "Sahara" is possibly my favorite thing I've heard them do, but that doesn't mean I don't like the shorter recorded version, or the electric version they used to do. I suppose I should have read the rest of the responses to this thread before contributing, but I got so excited about being home and having enough time to read and respond, period, that I just jumped in. (Just to make you happy, chad. :) ceecee ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:51:57 GMT From: ceelove@ibm.net (Colleen Campbell) Subject: Re: groupies v. confectioners (was: another Pointe-Claire review) On Sat, 12 Dec 1998 23:37:39 GMT, Srm9988n@aol.com wrote: >The point I was trying to make here is, I don't think any Frufan I've met >so far, including me or my husband, is a groupie. Ardent fans, perhaps. I haven't "met" a Fruvous groupie in the sense that I'd say I've "met" one of you from the newsgroup, but I've seen one. March 16, 1997, at the Iron Horse. Gasping and wringing her hands and squirming beside me, gaping up at Murray with these doe-like "I had my brain removed and implanted in my breasts" eyes, whimpering, "Murray, be my lover!" Yeow. Frightening. I almost choked. Amusingly enough, I saw her making big doe-eyes at Jian after the show. Probably nondiscriminant in her groupiehood. >I've heard of this, but never exactly, umm, searched for the >results. :D But allegedly there was a groupie in the 70's called >Cynthia Plaster Caster in LA (?) who did this. I think she was pals >with Pamela Des Barres, who actually wrote a book about being a >groupie. One of about a bazillion books I've never even considered >reading. :P Don't. It's crap (therefore it's not scottish?). I once read it as research, and rarely have I dealt so long with something so badly written, self-aggrandizing, and inane. What amazed me the most--in a whole book enshrining her own lack of self-respect--was that she quoted her own journals from when she was about 11 and obsessing over the Beatles ("My darling Paulie!!!!!!!!!!!"). I think she used up her lifetime's ration of exclamation points. Ew. ceecee ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:39:18 GMT From: ceelove@ibm.net (Colleen Campbell) Subject: Re: Bottom Line shows On 12 Dec 1998 20:18:50 GMT, lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD) wrote: >I've never heard of Dan Bern, so I looked around on the web and listened to a >few lo-fi clips from his first album. Kind of sounds like Dylan. I don't know >if I'd enjoy too large a dose of Dylan himself. I certainly wouldn't enjoy a >large dose of lo-fi clips of anyone, so I'm not going to judge based on that. Wow, two posts from me in a day. Cower, guys, the Apocalypse approacheth!. (There are a lot of newbies on here nowadays who probably have no clue who I am, I know, but I used to live on here; back in the days when there were maybe 5 or 10 posts a day, at most, I was disappointed by every piece of spam and had to regulate myself, lest I respond to *everything.* Times change.) Anyway, I couldn't pass up the bait on this one, having just seen Dan Bern on Saturday night--my sixth or seventh time. (Vika, you should stop reading now.) I dragged my cousin out to see him in NoHo and we ended up in a huge discussion on the way home, me trying to elucidate on a performer I consider to be so diverse and brilliant as to be well-nigh uncategorizable. Yes, he's Dylan-esque, and the quotable quote on that one is that, having heard the comparison one too many times, he quipped, "Maybe Bob Dylan was the Dan Bern of the 60's." Vocally, he's Dylan-esque, anyway. Lyrically, he's like no one. If Allan Ginsberg and Lewis Carroll had a love child and Woody Guthrie and Toynbee had another love child and those two love children grew up as childhood sweethearts in Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory and. ..well, you get the point. He's a beat poet and spoken word artist, at his best; well, I prefer his more unconstrained work, personally--the songs that stretch to eleven minutes. At times, he reminds me of what improv jazz would be like if it were poetry. At other times, he'll take the talking-blues format and turn it into an acid trip. Topic-wise? The first thing I ever wrote down about him was that he raises the taboo to an art form, and I don't think I've yet said it better. He slaughters sacred cows like they're going out of style. I get the impression that he's fairly liberal ("I'm pro-choice, pro-environment, I played 5 benefits this month. . .") but he doesn't hesitate to skewer the social niceties and political correcticism of the left, either (seeing as how that last quote came from the song "Fascist in Me"). He explores pop icons in a lot of his work, explores what it says about us as a society that we raise people and objects above ourselves; explores religion a lot too, the popular conceptions of god, how we abase ourselves, how we're searching for meaning in a world that has anthropomorphized god and deified man. "Hey god, how's it hangin', tough guy?" His work can be gut-wrenchingly depressing ("I saw the best of my generation playing pinball, maked up and caked up and looking like some kind of china doll"), touching ("I'm gonna stay here and make love with my baby in the Chelsea Hotel") and table-poundingly hilarious ("Yeah, I think you heard me right: I am the Messiah. I was gonna wait til next year, build up the suspense a little, but I could not resist. . ."). But underlying his work is a thoughtfullness, an imagination of what-ifs, a fascination with life, with culture, with the art-imitates-life-imitates-art tautology we're building around ourselves, history-that-we're-dooming-ourselves-to-repeat, with our terrors and idealisms, with the way we're all interconnected and prone to offending each other and stuck in a bizarre universe. (Okay, so I can gush forever about him. Quite frankly, he's the single most talented male songwriter I know of. Altogether, Fruvous have him beat out; but by himself, he has more raw talent there than *anyone.* And he really is a puppy dog, underneath that stage persona.) Be ready to be offended, challenged, startled, moved, bewildered, enlightened, and/or amused to no end. Enjoy. ceecee, blissing especially because she gotted to give 'im massage--and better yet, her new plaything, myofascial release work; beware, all ye around me, lest you become guinea pigs. . . ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V2 #122 ********************************************