From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V2 #120 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Sunday, December 13 1998 Volume 02 : Number 120 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: either/or: also, the ethics of pet-keeping ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: either/or: also, the ethics of pet-keeping ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: Indie Tape [vika@ibm.net (Vika Zafrin)] For all you BNL Fans . . . ["KatieWow" ] Re: NE Weather [Gruneberg Veronica J <6vjg@qlink.queensu.ca>] Re: Nature Sounds of NGs [Gruneberg Veronica J <6vjg@qlink.queensu.ca>] Re; An ounce of gratitude [Gruneberg Veronica J <6vjg@qlink.queensu.ca>] Re:NE Weather [shazalinrea@juno.com (Mindy J Munson)] Mom's res [shazalinrea@juno.com (Mindy J Munson)] Re: Re; An ounce of gratitude ["KatieWow" ] One week since I started it: Moins qu'un jour... ["Aye, who's asking whom] Re: Either/Or [Krista ] Re: either/or [lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD)] Re: Indie Tape [lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD)] Re: Indie Tape [lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD)] Re: Jerusalem of Plastic Bagdom [petit_chou@juno.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:16:47 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: either/or: also, the ethics of pet-keeping I've been staying out of this because I didn't find it that interesting. It seemed like a rather esoteric discussion that was making rather a lot of a little. Then Steve wrote: > The Dodo is the first species known to be "extincted" by > humankind. Was this a mistake? was this a sin? Are you or any fish worse off > because there are no dodoes? That I cannot let pass. Yes, yes and yes Steve, I feel that I am personally far less well off because a bit of my wonderful world has been utterly lost to me. What right did those men have to kill off the Dodo? What right did they have to deny me the chance to see one? How do you know that Dodo eggs are not the cure to cancer? IMNAAHO it was a HUGE mistake, a MORTAL sin, and an AFFRONT to me. You are entitled to your (I'm sure well-considered) opinion. But I find it misguided and plainly wrong in both a logical and moral sense. > I don't want to turn anything loose. I'm exploring the notion of stopping the > propogation of species that can exist only as pets. I'll keep my cat, and play > with her and brush her and pet her, 'til she dies, and do what I can to make > her last days comfortable. I won't let her reproduce, however. That is certainly your prerogative, but since I reject your entire argument about pet animals I would certainly have let mine breed if there were not an overpopulation. By your logic, who are we to tell them they can't breed? Sheesh. > >But I > >think cats specifically, as well as other animals and their human > >companions *can* have a far more give-and-take, mutually > >advantageous relationship than you credit. And frequently the cat > >clearly has a choice, and makes it clear that it would rather be with its > >person -- or not. > > Really? She can be a bitch, but she can't say, "Listen, Steve, it isn't working > out." We have not provided any alternatives, and it is up to us to do so, if > there are to be any. I think Lori's point was that outdoor cats could walk away wished, yet they don't. Yes to do so would be counter-productive to survival since the humans are the source of food, but I don't think that invalidated the CLEAR choice that the cat makes in returning each night. Your assertion that we cannot understand animals and their motives also seems high-handed to me. I believe I understand my pets pretty well, and they seem to understand me in their way. Cats are incredibly empathic creatures (some believe telepathic as well). Ours have demonstrated this to us repeatedly. > > > >I don't want to personify or psychologize the discussion, because it > >starts sounding ridiculous -- we're not talking about persons, for starters, > >and we can't put assume our own mindset for them. But that's the > >jargon we're dancing around. And to put it very loosely, I don't think > > they're all suffering from the feline version of Stockholm syndrome or > >acquired helplessness. That is not to deny that humans bred > >dependency into the species, and taught it further dependency. But > >they have also taught us to give them what they want -- whether it's > >tummy rubs, saucers of milk, chicken cut just so, or merely being > >left alone. > > Cats are hard to fit emotionally into this argument, because they look so much > like they are enjoying this or that. Learning what makes them purr, though, is > like learning that feeding the slaves a little more cornmeal makes them more > productive; it's a management issue, not a sympathy thing. Not when they come to you unbidden it isn't. Don't be silly. They clearly enjoy our company at times. Otherwise they'd be elsewhere in the house (as some cats are). Cats are not controlled to anything like the degree that slaves were. If they wanted they could be very antisocial and sulk in the basement all day. I'd still feed them. They gain nothing by cuddling up on my lap but company. If that isn't free will, I don't know what is. > The alternative is deciding that we won't breed kitties; that seems simplistic, > but it works, eventually. No need to kill anybody's pussums or turn any cat out > into the street. It will take a while, as unenlightened persons die off, but > let's work to persuade everyone that universal neutering is the right way to > go. It's a nice pipe dream for you, but it is not mine, and I think the majority of people in the world would agree with me and not you. By all means keep on discussing the issue. Discussion is good. But I think you have one hell of an uphill battle on your hands. A.J. - -- Epitaph on a dead blues singer's gravestone: "I didn't wake up this morning . . ." _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 14:33:20 -0500 From: pookie Subject: Re: Indie Tape I wasn't actually going to flood his email with porn. I , too have much better things to do with my time...although my roomie does have almost a gig of it........ pookie LeSystemeD wrote: > In article <19981212.173913.-286917.0.petit_chou@juno.com>, petit_chou@juno.com > wrote: > > >But you know what? I can say in full honesty that I continued > >this thread in a humorous vain, and I am saddened that you seem unable > >to > >understand my kind of humor. > > It's nopt a matter of failing to understand your humor. Rather it's a matter of > your humor failing to register as humor where it counts. Spamming is not an > uncommon thing on the net. This guy does not deserve it, in spite of your > jejune analysis. You may have been humorous, but the original poster was not. > Don't patronize me, and I won't patronize you, ok? > > Regards, > Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:41:10 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: either/or: also, the ethics of pet-keeping Vika Zafrin wrote: > Granted, many species that are on the List are not integral for any > other life forms. But usually, that's not how it works. Evolution > has made us all dependent upon one another, sometimes inconspicuously > so (who knows - maybe humans are dependent on, say, elephants; IF > that's the case, would your argument against the List change?) > > Forgive me for this HUGE leap, to some of you it may seem ridiculous; > to me it is not. I don't find that a huge leap. I think that is patently obvious. The earth is a meta-ecosystem EVERYTHING is inter-related. We take enough risks with the changes we make, both intentional and unintentional. To extinct any species when we are able to prevent the extinction is not only a moral imperative (to me) but good science and proper prudence. > >Really? She can be a bitch, but she can't say, "Listen, Steve, it isn't working > >out." We have not provided any alternatives, and it is up to us to do so, if > >there are to be any. > > The limited experience I've had with cats has taught me that if a > cat's really, really unhappy, it'll let you know unequivocally. :) You said it Vik! (And this from a woman who is violently allergic to cats!) My considerably greater experience tells me the same thing. > -v, ARGH, need to go do paper!!!! Almost *nine AM*, what am I > thinking??? Probably the same thing I've been thinking for the past two hours: "I MUST stop this and go get work done!" :D A.J. - -- Epitaph on a dead blues singer's gravestone: "I didn't wake up this morning . . ." _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:04:02 -0500 From: pookie Subject: INDIE TAPE! This is for all the loyal fruheads that jumped on me for suggesting flooding the guys email with porn. I WAS ONLY KIDDING. Seeing as how all of us are loyal fruheads i thought most of us would have a sense of humour. sorry for overstepping my bounds. pookie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 20:24:01 GMT From: vika@ibm.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Indie Tape "A.J. LoCicero" delighted us with: >Correct. This is not an issue of Fruvous. I is a general morality and >legality discussion. But the point that I made in my other post is that >there is a difference between someone's art (in this case music) and a >commodity that is derived therefrom (in this case the legitimate copy of >the Indie Tape.) My part in the discussion was never about legality. Morally, it is wrong to sell someone else's art. Yes, I consider the Indie Tape art - -- it is a recording, thus the equivalent for a musician of a painting to a painter. When you sell the recording (yes, even a tape of it, if it's a master copy), you're selling your art. And, though your point about the architect and the house was well taken, I don't believe it's the same issue here. Yes, if the architect considers what he does *art*, the result of his/her own creativity and to be taken as such, as opposed to a functional thing to live in, they have every moral right to request that they control who and how and when it is sold to, as far as I am concerned. The Indie Tape, I don't believe it's a commodity. The whole "collectibles" thing has weirded me out ever since I got to this country, so I'm not even going to go into how morally wrong I believe that is... UNLESS you're talking about stuff like baseball cards, which are very rarely considered masterpieces of photography and biographical writing. Go decipher THAT for coherence. :D Vika Zafrin vika@ibm.net "The wonderful thing about Shakespeare is that when it's done well, it makes people feel smarter than they are. As opposed to dumber than they are. There is really no in-between." - Spencer Golub ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:46:24 -0500 From: "KatieWow" Subject: For all you BNL Fans . . . admittedly (sp?), there is zero-frütent here, but i know that a lot of you (like myself) are barenaked ladies fans as well, and i thought i'd share this neato tidbit found on alt.music.barenaked-ladies last night, steven page's wife went into labor. he flew to toronto to be with her, and the rest of the band performed a show in atlanta. tyler stewart sang steve's parts in "one week" while two roadies played guitar and drums. they invited fans onstage to sing "the old apartment." they handed out lyric sheets to the audience so they could sing steve's parts in some songs, and then rapped about how much tyler and the audience suck compared to steve, and how tyler isn't billy joel's drummer, who knows all the words to the songs. i wasn't there, but had i known, i would have given my right kidney to be there :). anyway, as soon as i have more info on the newest page, i will post it here. happy holidays! ~~kate ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 1998 20:58:49 GMT From: Gruneberg Veronica J <6vjg@qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: Re: NE Weather Ha!!! Warmth in Toronto in February?!!! HA!!! :) Veronica - I, too, like Canada, except that it is chilly! - -- *************************************************************************** "Hey Mr. Santa Claus, | Veronica Gruneberg I believe in you because | Dept. of Biology last year all my parents got me | Queen's University was a trip to Missisagua!!" | Kingston, Ontario - Arrogant Worms ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 1998 20:55:14 GMT From: Gruneberg Veronica J <6vjg@qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: Re: Nature Sounds of NGs You know, I might buy the procrastination excuse if our assignment schedule didn't come out at the beginning of the year, with at least 3 major assignments due every week from Hallowe'en to the end of term. Oh well... three down, one to go. Granted, it's a 100% final (YIKES!! That makes two in this exam period. And I *think* I passed the last one - now let's never speak of it again). But then I get to go home and let my Mommy cook for me (21 years old and all I want is my mom to take care of me again. Talk about regression) Anyway... back to printing course notes (nothing like the last minute! :P) :) Veronica - -- *************************************************************************** "Hey Mr. Santa Claus, | Veronica Gruneberg I believe in you because | Dept. of Biology last year all my parents got me | Queen's University was a trip to Missisagua!!" | Kingston, Ontario - Arrogant Worms ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 1998 21:12:28 GMT From: Gruneberg Veronica J <6vjg@qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: Re; An ounce of gratitude TTTHHHHPPPPFFFFTTTTT!!!!! No fair that your exams are over and I still have to write! :P I really hate this time of year for exams - it removes all excitement about my birthday and Christmas. Hey... anyone wanna write cell biology? Come on, all the cool kids are doing it... and you've got as much of a shot as I do! :) Veronica - -- *************************************************************************** "Hey Mr. Santa Claus, | Veronica Gruneberg I believe in you because | Dept. of Biology last year all my parents got me | Queen's University was a trip to Missisagua!!" | Kingston, Ontario - Arrogant Worms ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:32:02 GMT From: shazalinrea@juno.com (Mindy J Munson) Subject: Re:NE Weather On 13 Dec 1998 20:58:49 GMT Gruneberg Veronica J >:) Veronica - I, too, like Canada, except that it is chilly! Thats when you grab a frulad to keep you warm =+) Fruchild ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:24:43 GMT From: shazalinrea@juno.com (Mindy J Munson) Subject: Mom's res Hey guys! Mom put me and moxy in her resume. I thought it was amusing... >Still at home is Mindy, 16 and a junior at the new Jamestown High School. >Mindy aspires > to become a great actor (She says "actress" is not an appropriate word >anymore.) Mindy > marches to the tune of a different drummer--lately an alternative grass roots >band called > Moxy Fruvous. She, too, is a scholar & is checking out the college scene. Fruchild ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:41:48 -0500 From: "KatieWow" Subject: Re: Re; An ounce of gratitude oh boy. i've still got latin, world politics, and calculus. i wrote my ancient world (like greek history, only greek, roman, and jewish) yesterday. i'm getting the exam time blues :(. some früvous should cheer me up :). ~~kate ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:57:52 -0500 From: "Aye, who's asking whom?" Subject: One week since I started it: Moins qu'un jour... Moins qu'un jour à Montréal... Less than a day in Montreal: Fruvous in the Pretty Province "When I recite the stories, they're the stories you told me. I tell them in my own way, but I couldn't make them up. For deep in my heart, you're doing the talking..." - --Paul Piché, "Moé, j'raconte des histoires", 1983. Okay, in English that sounds really cheesy. Lots of music in French just doesn't fly in English, because English is not a romantic language. We use a Germanic grammar, we eschew double-negatives and reflexive appositives (in other words, you'd say "I'm going to the show, Bob" and not "I'm going to the show, me" when talking to Bob), and we use different vocabularies based upon situations (you get funny looks anytime you use the word "seminegationist" in bed, even if it's apropos... err, fitting). After the Battle of Hastings, Shakespeare, the immigrant influx of the Industrial Revolution, and Cab Calloway, no other language could keep up with our shifts. In turn, we are cripplingly idiomatic. What this has to do with Fruvous playing in a cowboy bar on West Island will be revealed like layers of an episode of Law & Order. So I got to see Fruvous twice in Clinton, and everyone else has described the wonders involved. I will only add a few points before I begin the ride north: 1) They did "Early Morning Rain" Friday. As with the Hallowe'en performance, wow! 2) I got to talk to Jian and not look like an imbecile, which I consider a triumph. Dave and Murray were amicable as well; I'm still hoping one day to have a great conversation with Dave, but I think I'm safe in assuming there will be fifteen other potential chances at least. Now, my main story begins in Pulaski, New York, about three miles from Interstate 81. I stayed over at Novac's place and had a delicious cup of coffee with his father. I learned how much of a city boy I am: I was awakened by a chainsaw. Jo picked Novac and me up around quarter of two, and since I knew the exact route and Novac enjoyed napping, I got to ride shotgun. As the trees after trees and hills after hills leading to the Black River (Watertown) gave way to the plains spacing the St. Lawrence River, I became giddy in expectation of returning to Canada (and I was troubled by the odd inability of Jo's tape deck to accept my discman's cassette adapter while playing normal tapes easily. I mean, this is a nice adapter, with built-in cellophane leader linked to the spindle wheels). Once we arrived at the first bridge over the Thousand Islands, Jo became very excited. I didn't believe her when she said "it's them!" because I remembered the FruBus being larger and having a larger Motomaster canopy. I am lucky to report I was mistaken: we weren't going to be late to the show because we would be passing the band somewhere around Brockville. Jo proceeded to put on her makeup and primp for the proper effect, and even I combed my hair and pulled out my copy of Tom Waits's "Rain Dogs" (the album containing the original "Jockey Full of Bourbon") to hold up to the window as we passed Tobey. We were still behind the FruBus at customs, at which point we debated telling the woman at customs "we're with the band" (or "I'm Ringo's sister", like Shakes says in A Hard Day's Night). Since thresholds, such as ports of entry, are very significant in mythology (worlds begin and end while physical changes may be negligible), being led into the Great White North by its finest pied pipers seems feels as close as I have ever come to a vocational notice: follow the road, they know the way, we are on the right track. Of course, we still had about two and a half hours of driving ahead, and aside from stopping for poutine and a Jersey Milk bar at a plaza (Novac and I enjoyed the moment of getting more numerical change than what each handed to the KFC clerk), the drive was smooth. My third role started to come into play once we passed Cornwall on the 401: I was the only person with any kind of French tongue in the car, so I proceeded to roll this tongue upon the possible words ahead. About three miles from the border with Quebec, I saw a sign with the words "formerly" and "autrefois" juxtaposed and began to think about the significance ("autrefois" is literally "other time", as if the past were the only other time). You know, this review feels very bogged down, and yet I don't wish to leave anything out. I think the ten thousand things have been hounding my conscience and are trying to win their places in the review over anything I may want to say. Still, those things are exactly what I want to talk about, and they shall remain my fuel. The 401 becomes Autoroute 20, and when A-20 enters Montreal Island, it becomes filled with traffic lights and local businesses. Since the hours of riding before that are filled with flatlands and distant views of chump-change hills, the dusk combined with the Technicolor neon parade gave the feel of a landing from a long flight. With the businesses came the billboards, and since it's illegal to post advertising in Quebec that has any language other than French as the dominant typeset, all these signs were French. Suddenly, the French part of my mind, repressed by neglect in my illiterate homeland, could readily dissect ads for Bell Mobility and the odd puns in the Heinekken shots. We continued past the exit for the venue (it was only 5 pm and the opening act would not be until 10) and followed the expressway into downtown. Keep in mind that while Montreal Island is about 35 miles long, the city of Montreal is only a minor part of the island. Unlike Toronto, there has not been any consolidation of county government into city government, so the sudden view of skyscrapers on the horizon looming like the skyline shot for Network XXIII on Max Headroom as the 20 turned past the Lachine Rapids seemed more like an attempt by a coal-carved metropolis to eat the traffic. This was much more ominous than my last trip to Montreal -- I had taken the train from New York and the same city, seen from the east and slightly earlier in the day, looked like a haven of technology upon the desolate plains. Now I waited for Edison Carter to chopper in and say "What I want to know is: who ate the city I had visited last time?" So we got off the pike and came face to face with the Imperial Tobacco plant. In America, we're so used to the same tobacco companies and hearing how they plan to get China and every other nation addicted to Virginia-grown cancer sticks that this name meant nothing to me until I remembered that Camels are imports here and more obscure than Gauloises or Gitanes, which everyone carries in Montreal. The Empire smoked Players and duMaurier (as do members of Fruvous), and this brown-brick, windowless loading dock was breathing some kind of respite on a Saturday night. We found a parking spot right in front of Complexe Desjardins in "forget it, Jake, it's..." Chinatown (sorry, I needed that) while suburban Habs and Leafs fans shelled out for "stationnement" all around us. The new Molson Centre sits atop the old Windsor Station (once the main train station of Montreal and built out of granite, now merely a commuter train terminal) like Minipax might have sat over the Tower of London. We learned about another oddity of the underground shopping complex that links much of downtown Montreal and was meant to bring shopping back to downtown: the stores close at five on weekends. During the Christmas season. Brilliant. The only thing open was Archambault, a books and music store in which I found two copies of the Beau Dommage tune "La Complainte du phoque en Alaska" and some other neat oddities. Note that in French, "The Full Monty" isn't even given a similar title (it comes out to "The Big Game"), nor is "Jingle All the Way" ("The Toy Hunt") or "As Good as it Gets" (I'm too scared to tell you). Perhaps this is good... Back up the 720 to the 20 and back to Pointe Claire. There's an odd part of this highway complex where the westbound lanes cross over the eastbound and you suddenly wonder if you're on the right track. (Finally, the moment you've been waiting for... the money shot!) We were listening to the CBC play this jarring pseudo-documentary about a new rock band touring Newfoundland. The journalist was pretending to be a member of the band as they toured, and the band read along in a script out of someone's delusion of hipness. It was funny, but in the way a guy caught in a car wreck telling jokes before all the blood leaves his head might be. Do you laugh, or do you hunt for a crowbar? I wouldn't need to think about that for long, as guess which real band was in front of us again? Twice in one day! Is that proof of salvation, or can it still rate as cowinkydink? Jo was giddy and taking the turn-off way too fast from the ecstasy. This also solved one big question: which was do we turn up Lakeshore Drive? Clydes is a post-country bar in the middle of a ridiculously cute neighborhood. Oh, it was cute... little streets with little street signs and a supermarket compacted into a grocery store. They had lots of big pool tables, big drinks, and two big screens (one on the main dining space and one drop-screen in front of the stage which we watched while waiting for the opening act). You know everyone was there already, and you may have gotten the impression it was Iron Horse with the surprise that no one had planned anything. It was, so sulk. We all had fun, I was drunk for about fourteen minutes and then switched to cane-sugar coke (I wonder if I can't pay an importer to provide my bulk cola and candy from Canada). Adam gave me a cigarette (menthol! Yeee!), Fiona was generous to put up with my questions, and there were some great people I met in the crowd (a guy named Serge, two MIT grads playing bridge while waiting for the lights to sort themselves out, and a cute artist who had a day job with UPS, which I wasn't even aware was in Canada). The Wells, a local three-piece bar-rock band, opened. It was odd that everyone sat through the opening act -- on the floor. They rocked, although I think the guitarist should switch to an electric considering the abuse he's giving that poor acoustic with a Dean Markley pick-up. Also, the bassist has the better voice, and should be doing the singing (I told him so, but he was so happy to be drinking for free I doubt he was concerned). The bassist and guitarist sing into the same mike, looking like a Beatles flashback. Would I want to see them again? Umm, okay. The show wasn't as tight as either of the Clinton shows. My pro-hometown sentiments may be showing, but it's not because the Lads weren't on-spot. They rocked, but... the drinking age is 18 up there, okay? People I'd gladly proof until age 40 were drunk on Export and kept yelling "King of Spain! Green Eggs and Ham!" and made me want to defend the band with a big cudgel. Still, they did La Complainte and I could finally sing along on this, my fourth time hearing the song. The lighting was very bad: the looked almost sepia-toned from the wan-yellow lights aimed straight at their heads, interesting in contrast to the Newsies references two nights earlier. The few times the lighting was correct, it would last five seconds. Was Alcoholics Anonymous doing the lighting? "Here's your favorite band, you bloody drunks..." Before we left for the long drag back, and before I began to natter about the translation of la Complainte to Jo while Novac slept (thanks for putting up with me, both of you!), there was this comedian hitting on the Smith College Four that struck me as... well, an older and more desperate version of myself. Odd to find out who you'd be in a different place... Oh, and Jo's headlights blew a fuse somewhere before Cornwall when Novac turned on the high-beams. If she hadn't had a spare fuse, oy what pain life could have been. This post is officially long enough, and I'm falling off my chair -- cheap plastic. - -flump, Dante ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 00:23:57 GMT From: Krista Subject: Re: Either/Or Dagonet wrote: > > On 8 Dec 1998, BBWMinors wrote: > > > >>Mulder or Scully? > > >*shhh* You know what? I'm never seen the show. I've seen a few bits and > > >pieces and I can't say I was impressed. Is there *anyone* else out there who > > >doesn't watch it?>> > Ohhh, I've *gotta* sign up for this one. I've seen "The X-Files" a few times, and I'm not overly impressed. As someone else aptly pointed out, the acting exhibited on that show is pretty appalling. People say to me, "Oh Krista, how can you not like Mulder? He's so *cute*!" Well, there are plenty of *talented* good-looking guys out there whom I hold much nearer and dearer to my heart (helloooo, Frulads;-)!!). ---Krista--- ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 1998 01:40:37 GMT From: lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD) Subject: Re: either/or In article <367372C6.8618A651@home.com>, Krista wrote: >I use mesh bags whenever I remember to bring them to the store with me. > >I avoid plastic bags whenever I can. By the end of the week I always >seem to have about 14,897 plastic bags littering my house. I think they >mate in my closet when I'm asleep at night. And unbeknownst to you, as you come and go, they take advantage of the briefly open door to slip out past your ankles or over your head. They escape to seek their natural and destined home. They fly, borne on the unsuspecting wind, through streets and alleys, past cars and houses, over hills, seeking ever the perfect place, the true Jerusalem of plastic bagdom. Inevitably, ineluctably, they post themselves, rippling with polystyrene laughter, in the branches of the trees of the suburbs. Regards, Steve ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 1998 01:41:03 GMT From: lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD) Subject: Re: Indie Tape In article <36740675.65A10186@wwnet.com>, "A.J. wrote: >Artists >can control the production of their work, but to give them control over >the >property of others seems indefensible to me. Should an architect have >to >be paid each time the house he or she designed is sold? Should he/she >be >able to deny the sale? I don't think so. Interestingly (perhaps only to me) a sale is a contract; the artist can make a contract of sale that provides for percentages of further sales to be paid to him, including a provision that further sales may only be made with a similar provision in the contract. In the tradition of the English Common Law (including the US and Canada) you can contract to just about anything. Some artists and some "ethical collectors" have indeed been making contracts of this nature for the sale of art. It makes more sense in the context of a unique piece than for a tape of which there may be thousands of copies, but it can be and is being done. Regards, Steve ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 1998 01:40:59 GMT From: lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD) Subject: Re: Indie Tape In article <3673bc7d.1495669@news3.ibm.net>, vika@ibm.net wrote: >Steve, what you were talking about were indeed >contractual issues. Tobey, the stores, the brothers Gibb, they're all >in on the legality issue thing. This guy, apparently, isn't. Do you >really think he'll be sending part of his profit off to the Fruvous >HQ? I doubt it. He gave them their share of the profit when he bought the tape, for goodness'sake. If he didn't buy it directly from the band, then the person who did buy it from them gave them their share. He made a contract with someone (presumably there's a chain of contract leading back to Murray's Mom) when he bought the tape. That contract is no less a contract than the one Tobey has with the band, even if it's a little less intimate. He has a legal right to dispose of the tape however he wants to. There isn't any legal difference in terms of "making money off of someone else's art". The stores are in fact exactly the same as this guy. They buy the goods, they sell them for their market value. Their contracts may be more complicated (allowing for returns and so forth) than his, or than mine when I buy a disk at a concert, but they are legally exactly the same. I'm sorry, but this guy deserves none of the abuse that he's getting (he probably doesn't even know about it, isn't that cute?) This whole thing arose when someone didn't get a tape for a fifth of its market value, and is disappointed that she or he (I don't even recall who it was) wasn't able to finesse the presumably unknowing offerror out of the value of his goods. I can't have any sympathy. Regards, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 02:30:20 GMT From: petit_chou@juno.com Subject: Re: Jerusalem of Plastic Bagdom Steve, this is the single funniest thing I've read on the ng for weeks. Seriously, I was rolling off my chair. Have a great night (no animosity is what I'm going for here). Pax Vobiscum, Heather Moore >And unbeknownst to you, as you come and go, they take advantage of the >briefly open door to slip out past your ankles or over your head. They escape >to seek their natural and destined home. They fly, borne on the unsuspecting >wind, through streets and alleys, past cars and houses, over hills, seeking >ever the perfect place, the true Jerusalem of plastic bagdom. Inevitably, >ineluctably, they post themselves, rippling with polystyrene laughter, in the >branches of the trees of the suburbs. > >Regards, >Steve > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V2 #120 ********************************************