From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V2 #77 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Thursday, December 3 1998 Volume 02 : Number 077 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: coupla things... ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: [RE: Stand and be counted] [Marty Blase ] Re: Clinton tonight/New songs [Brenda Longstreet ] faith (was Re: Inquisitions) [Taryn Chase ] Re: Inquisitions/RESPECT [Srm9988n@aol.com] Nields/EFO [nasust@aol.com (NasusT)] Re: R E S P E C T. Find out what it means to me. ["Glen -Skip- Newell" ] Re: coupla things... ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: R E S P E C T. Find out what it means to me. [wahrend@my-dejanews.com] Re: Feeling Old [Josh Drury ] Re: Free Bird -- minimal Fru'tent [Josh Drury ] Re: Nields/EFO [joshw@bgnet.bgsu.edu (Josh Woodward)] Re: More Important Stuff (i.e. Hockey) ["A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: coupla things... Angie Armstrong wrote: > 1) re: FrüChristians... um, can i still play in the Moxy Sandbox if I'm _not_ > christian? I wouldn't worry about that Angie. Many of us are not Christians. That is what made the thread interesting. Most Born Again Christians drive me up the wall, but it seems that here we have some of the rare incredibly cool type. > I haven't decided _what_ I am yet, I've done Roman Catholic, I was > brought up Lutheran, I've done Jehovah's Witness (*involuntary shudder* bad > experience for me), I've done Baptist, I've done Episcopal, Presbyterian, > JudeoChristian, Wiccan, Druid, Native American Tribal (I'm friends with a few > mystics and medicine women)... Nothing's called to me just yet. Sounds like you are an Agnostic. Wise choice if you ask me. > My music > director is Unitarian and is the music director for one of the Unitarian > Church's here in Rochester, I just can't bring myself to "go to worship" > because i question organized religion in general. I love life, I love nature, > I love all creatures big and small, I love mystery... is that enough? I think that is plenty. I'm not sure if a Unitarian service can really be called "worship" (Lis and I were married in a Unitarian church) but I feel the same way. > 3) re: raise of hands, ME ME ME ME ME *waving hands wildly in the air* I'm > going to Clinton tomorrow for the Hamilton College show!!!! Taryn once again > stepped in to be my salvation, and we're takin' off early and headin' to > Clinton!!! If you're gonna be there, look for me... come up and say 'hi' I'll > have FrüBars! > > hmmm, I forgot what else I was responding to. oh well. I'm happy, I'm > excited, I'm alive and I've already had 2 cups of coffee.. wheeeeeee! Ok guys, we HAVE to keep Angie AWAY from Colleen. I'm not ready for the world to end just yet. :) A.J. - -- Epitaph on a dead blues singer's gravestone: "I didn't wake up this morning . . ." _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 10:18:28 -0600 From: Marty Blase Subject: Re: [RE: Stand and be counted] Angie Armstrong wrote: > > I think that's it. Gotta git, there's FrüBars to be made and Lindy Hop to be > danced tonight!!! Fruvous or Lindy... Fruvous or Lindy.... Dang, I hate impossible choices. :-) - - Marty ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 16:15:29 GMT From: Brenda Longstreet Subject: Re: Clinton tonight/New songs > > I hope you FrüFans I run into tonight are hungry, I had no idea how many > FrüBars to make so I made a bunch, and I don't want to take any home if I can > help it yummy. > I'll be the tall black chick in the Baby T with the goodies... oh, and baked i'll be the frazzled starving chick looking for frubars! (no time to stop and eat!!) and lucky thing the events barn offers free coffee and hot cocoa!! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 16:25:07 GMT From: Taryn Chase Subject: faith (was Re: Inquisitions) Jack, from his virtual pulpit: AMEN, Jack! Faith is revolutionary. Faith and revolutions both grow out of a will to overcome categories/any means of alienation thrust on a group of people. Love is all about seeing beyond the physical; by definition, unconditional. Who better to find this truth than those who have been forced to rise above all manner of prejudice and persecution? Some broad examples of this are both African-Americans and the Irish. From my observation, both groups are among the strongest people in the world--people who've endured--and also people of deep faith. On a more personal/anecdotal level, whenever my mother has difficulty aligning the color of my hair or style of my clothes with my professed faith, I explain to her my theory that revival--in its purest sense, more of a love revolution--would most likely emerge from communities of punks/freaks/disenfranchised youth. [Anybody heard of the Cornerstone festival in IL? There was a great article about it in Swing magazine recently.] God is definitely found where you'd least expect him (/her/insert non-gender pronoun here). Tangent that's ironically back on topic: Fruvous fans are true to my theory, as well. Anybody catch Rudolph on TV? Take a look around at the next frushow--talk about the Island of Misfit Toys! We *are* an odd and lovable bunch... Does any of this jive with you guys? Thanks, Jack, for great insight. We'll get along swell. :) And thanks, everybody else, for listening--whether riveted or just in toleration, Taryn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 16:32:26 GMT From: Srm9988n@aol.com Subject: Re: Inquisitions/RESPECT Jack Porcello and Steve (LeSysteme) made about a thousand enlightening and important points in two different posts, some of which I will try to address below. Please pardon the extensive quoting; I couldn't figure out what to snip and therefore assumed it was all relevant. :) First, Jack: > I believe that religion is something that you *DO* to make yourself more or > less worthy to be accepted into some sort of order or by some sort of > deity. That is how it seems to be approached by many people, but *I* wouldn't necessarily argue that confusing meaning with justification means a word has been redefined. Religion to me is a systematic body of beliefs, informed by a particular world view, that guides actions and enables heightened spiritual awareness and, ultimately, personal transformation. The beliefs at their core make sense, but interpretation of how to implement eternal values in a timely world is a subjective and personal issue. The divine force within (the Holy Spirit, or whatever you will) is not best served in an atmosphere of dogma-based group espousals and actions. It moves each of us in very different ways, and we need to make space for it frequently, to be alone with it, in order to find out how it is calling us at the moment. (See: Present Tense Tureen.) That is why I am glad this discussion started. The people I hang out with a good part of the time (as a stay-at-home mom, my interactions with the wide world are somewhat limited) tend to focus on the dogmatic, the literal, the frequently-conflicting or twisted-for-another-purpose scriptural verses, and that type of literalism is not religious reflection to me, or faith in action; it is blind following. (Oft-quoted absurd example -- Angie take note, I think it's one of the things you might have been talking about re: the punitive OT God. Homosexuality and unruly children alike are *abominations*. So does that mean we can stone all of our misbehaving little twerps? Or should the Keepers of the Morals just get a grip on the fact that while their God's law (which, in some of the translations...from God to Hebrew to Greek to Latin to King James to Douay-Reims to '90s American English... most of them written down by highly dead guys so we can't double-check with them) uses what seems a harsh word, it actually expresses compassion and the recognition that his children will *all* do something that other equally imperfect humans will find perplexing, annoying, or even inconsiderate of others, but this does not lessen *anyone's* status as children of God, endowed with free will and hormones, who essentially search for growth, love, and the divine. That is the human condition, and the guy who many people believe created that condition certainly knows all that.) > Religion is something that makes people follow after other people. It is > what > causes people to settle for less than they can have or be because someone > says that they don't deserve it. It is what fuels the furnace of war and > unrest, > and what justifies one group of people in their abuses of another group > that > they believe to be inferior or less worthy. Again, this misapprehension, often fed by "religious" organizations and bodies themselves, probably stems from the frequent, imho lazy focus on the nitty-gritty of dogmatic belief, at the expense of awareness of the paradigm they came out of. Which is just not very self-aware, or transforming in the long run, although it does have a magnetic sort of appeal, which is only ignored at peril because it is the root of fanaticism and intolerance. > > Faith is what allows us to reach out to each other and help each other and > be > here for each other and accept each other and love each other. Faith gives > us the power to ook beyond my long hair and your short hair and her > tye-dyed > t-shirt and his business suit and our skin colour and their hair colour, > and just > to see each other as what we are. People. And people are brought together > by common threads, of which the most important is the need to be accepted > and acceptable, loved and to love. > > You know, faith is really demonstrated here in this ng and amoung Fruheads > all over. We have so many different faces, such diverse cultures, and such > an amazing collection of opinions, yet we come together in a common ground > as simple yet as complex as music and light banter, and for a short time we > are made to face the truth about ourselves and to accept the truth about > others, > so that when it is all over we come away with a little bit of each other, > and thus a > little bit better for it. > > Can I get an "amen?" :) Amen. This analysis of faith action also explains the evolution of this thread from "can you guys help with a real specific problem" to a more abstract and far-reaching, highly personal discussion. And hopefully it alleviates the concerns of those who have been leery of the thread. Yes, in a way there really is a Church of Fruvous! And the only practice that's absolutely intrinsic to membership is that you *must* giggle in French. :) Steve dived in with: > Opinions are not sacred because they are opinions. And they are certainly > not > sacred because they are couched in religious terms. > People frequently say, "I have a right to have an opinion, so you have no > right > to criticize it." They are wrong. People frequently say, "You have to > respect > people's religious beliefs." You have to do no such thing. You have a right > to > an opinion, right? What about the opinion that a religious belief is wacko ( > or > Waco, or Michigan, for that matter)? If people's religious beliefs seem > objectively wrong, or hurtful to the rest of society ("I must kill doctors > who > perform abortions" or "I'm an Aryan and We must wipe out Jews"), or if they > are > just not persuasive to you, then they have no right to expect your respect. Yes, but.... There is a profound difference between respect, which must be earned, and comprehension of another person's point of view, which you may well regard as mistaken but, if you are to have any hope of truly communicating with that person, you need to wrap your head around. The abortion-doctor-killers do not equate themselves with Aryans, or the SS. They consider themselves as acting in defense of the victims of another Holocaust, one with over a million victims each year. They view their actions the same way many of us would contemplate being able to go back and kill Hitler in 1936. That's not to say that I AGREE with them! Please, no flames! But if I want to get through to them, want to try to find even a sliver of common ground, it is imperative that I understand their argument and also acknowledge that, from their point of view, they are acting in a positive way, not a psychopathic one, that they are defending the innocent, preventing genocidal wrongs and all that stuff. After I acknowledge that, then maybe we can start a dialogue. But shouting across the Grand Canyon (I think he's an outlaw lunatic barbarian; he thinks I'm approving genocide) doesn't get anyone closer to the middle. For the record, I may well be the only pro-choice Catholic adoptive- parent-to-be on the continent. I think abortion's horrible, and I wouldn't choose it. But I'm a thirty-six-year-old woman in a solid marriage who's only had one pregnancy "scare" in her life --and sixteen years later I can recall entirely too vividly, despite being a person with many advantages including a solid relationship and a supportive family, how helpless and vulnerable I felt for those five or six days. I think what's even more horrible than abortion is the sometimes appallingly bleak situations women who have to choose already find themselves in. It's not a choice anyone *wants* to make; it's a choice one makes in a bad circumstance. And if I'm not the person who is in that circumstance, I can't possibly presume to decide what the person who is in it should do about it. People make the decisions they have to make -- when they have the power to make a decision at all. And when options are in many cases so very limited, I can only respect someone for summoning the strength to make *a* decision -- any decision -- rather than just passively letting what happen will. I don't think it's any group's right or duty to try to take that small amount of self-determination away. Far better would it be to work to end the circumstances that make abortion a more feasible choice for many women than any alternative, no matter how reasonably presented. Far better to end oppression, abuse, poverty, lack of education, societal disapproval, and subjugation in general than to criminalize a choice while the factors that made it necessary are left intact. Some of you might think Clinton's "safe, legal, and rare" characterization of what he would like abortion to be is corny, but I think it speaks to the changes that really need to be made to free people, not to limit them further, and to welcome children into a society prepared to nurture them even after they are born. So yeah, I'll be at F&F for C. I have no problem with that. :) (HEYYY! Actual FruContent!) > Respect means too much to dole it out too liberally. Too many > religious beliefs are "poisonous righteous". Several of the > religions you mention include dogma that is offensive to me. And I have the > right to the opinion that it is offensive. If I refrain from pointing out > specifically every offensive point of each one, it is civility, and not > respect, that holds me back. Again, I would like to point out gently and civilly that imho it is not the core beliefs that are offensive, but the concrete applications of their dogmatic expression. "All life is sacred" or "Life is a seamless garment" does NOT reduce to "Abortion is the most evil evil." Not even the Catholic Church says that (the leftie-intellectual-carefully-read-encyclical-Christ-was-a- social-activist-who-nurtured-the-poor-and-downtrodden Catholic Church, I mean; not the unthinking-dogmatic-blanket-application-of-generalities Catholic straw man which has so many unthinking proponents that many of us get the willies and run screaming away from it.) What the sacredness of life means to me, and what is the papal encyclicals go on to say, is that all of humanity, as children of God, are equally entitled to the social justices that enable people not merely to survive but to grow spiritually. Anything that impedes these justices is evil, whether it's abortion or poverty or discrimination, and so we must work to end these evils. Not just one of them. Not one of them first, and the others afterwards. All of them, all at once, because they're all so interlocked that ending one without addressing the others doesn't fix anything. Oh, and to Angie again, about that punitive OT God: it is my whimsical view that God has grown into being fully God just as we have grown into being fully human. The whole OT reads to me like a frazzled parent coming to terms with the reality of his balky, stubborn little creationand figuring out, through trial and error, what works and what doesn't, what is good discipline and whatmay have been overkill, and how to really get the attention of the little ones when they're in danger, and their respect just because ... well, because I'm the parent, dammit! I know *somethin* and I do have your best interests at heart! Now listen up, and behave! By the last half of the OT he's got it figured out, and he realizes parenting's a big sacrifice, lots of heartache, with no certainty after all this labor of love about how the kids are really going to turn out -- and so into the NT. Anyway, that's my far-from-orthodox take on it. Probably would get me thrown out of CCD, but hey... - -- Lori *********************** "fru gud me sleep now" -- Dante B. Visit Lori's strange and wonderful world! http://members.aol.com/srm9988n/index.html ------------------------------ Date: 3 Dec 1998 16:43:52 GMT From: nasust@aol.com (NasusT) Subject: Nields/EFO Hi There! In case it hasn't been posted yet, for everyone who is NOT going out to Clinton this weekend, The Nields and Eddie From Ohio are playing at the Tralf in Buffalo this Friday night! What a terrific double bill!!! Susan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 17:05:48 GMT From: "Glen -Skip- Newell" Subject: Re: R E S P E C T. Find out what it means to me. Steve said- >Please read this carefully and with an open mind. (SNIP !) > That, Steve, was the most intelligent thing anyone has posted to this thread since it began. HEAR HEAR !!! Skip ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 17:06:59 GMT From: Angie Armstrong Subject: Re: [Re: Clinton tonight/New songs] i'll be the frazzled starving chick looking for frubars! (no time to stop and eat!!) hmmm, sounds like a match made in heaven... or at a Früvous concert!!! and lucky thing the events barn offers free coffee and hot cocoa!! Got Milk? *snort* - --Angie, crackin' herself up (I'm going to switch to decaf, I promise... someday) ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 17:04:08 GMT From: Angie Armstrong Subject: Re: [Re: Inquisitions/RESPECT] Whew Lori! What a work out for the eyeballs!!! :^) Yes, in a way there really is a Church of Fruvous! And the only practice that's absolutely intrinsic to membership is that you *must* giggle in French. :) WAAAAAAAH! I can't speak french!!!!!!! how on earth shall I learn to giggle in french??? Would you settle for a chuckle in Swahili? A Titter in Portugese (sp?)? A Chortle in Ancient Phoenician? A Guffaw in Middle English? Oh wait... the only one I'm qualified to use is a Rochesterian nasally flat ha ha ha. (actually, so far I've managed to _not_ pick up the rochester accent). Oh man, this is gonna be a looooooooong day! Taryn, if you're having second thoughts about being stuck in the car with me... ;^) - --Angie, drifting further and further from reality ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 16:54:21 GMT From: Angie Armstrong Subject: [RE: Stand and be counted]] owner-ammf@smoe.org wrote: Angie Armstrong wrote: > > I think that's it. Gotta git, there's FrüBars to be made and Lindy Hop to be > danced tonight!!! Fruvous or Lindy... Fruvous or Lindy.... Dang, I hate impossible choices. :-) - - Marty That's why I make my life easy and not make decisions. I Lindy-ed from 7:30 til about 9:45, came home, started baking, ran out of my Früvous ingredient after the 2nd batch and had to run to the store, then finished baking around 2am (and yes, I'm at work, and yes I'll be conscious for the drive and yes I plan on being up and about until I get home and oh yeah, I'm teaching another class tomorrow and have to be at work at 7am) did I say I make my life EASY?!?!?!? I just won't think about it and it won't be there... FrüBliss FrüBliss FrüBliss FrüBliss FrüBliss - --Angie, realizing she's gone past obsessed! ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 16:41:59 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: coupla things... andi andrzejewski wrote: <> Andi, Religion has nothing to do with Fruvous music (except that some people seem to feel that it IS a religion) :D but this thread has everything to do with the "Fruhead Community" and thus is quite germane to the newsgroup. I think you have misread the posts if you feel that anyone is having a problem with anyone. The thread began with a couple of Christians acknowledging their faiths (which is a brave thing to do in a NG as generally Liberal as this one is) and then an ensuing discussion blossomed which I'd describe more as a mutual admiration society than anything else. I don't think Angie was feeling unwelcome for a moment. She was merely creating an opening to discuss her beliefs. As for trying to convert people, the only converting that anyone here is doing is conversion to Fruvous so there is nothing for you to worry about. Remember...Visualize The Gasket.... A.J. - -- Epitaph on a dead blues singer's gravestone: "I didn't wake up this morning . . ." _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 16:31:56 GMT From: wahrend@my-dejanews.com Subject: Re: R E S P E C T. Find out what it means to me. Oh no... In article <19981202232650.29940.00000548@ngol08.aol.com>, lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD) wrote: > > Please read this carefully and with an open mind. I mean no offense to those > who mean no offense to others. Don't really have time to post a long disertation on why I believe this mentality is incredibly dangerous, so I'll just post some comments... > Opinions are not sacred because they are opinions. And they are certainly not > sacred because they are couched in religious terms. People frequently say "I > have a right to an opinion," and yeah, they do. But that opinion may be > objectively wrong or just silly. For the most part, it doesn't matter if you > hold a wrong opinion (the earth is made of Cocoa Puffs and Smarties, there are > 18 ears of corn in a niblets (at least a 4-ounce one), etc.), because most > opinions are wrong or at least incomplete, but not dangerous, and we deal > somehow. Who decides what is sacred and what isn't? Her point was the religion is just another choice and that you should respect that choice, not the religion per se. Opinions may be wrong or silly indeed.. but they are not dangerous. I can say all day that my religion advocated puppy abuse or the elimination of all indoor plumming, but unless I ACT ON those opinions they are just that, opinions. > People frequently say, "I have a right to have an opinion, so you have no right > to criticize it." They are wrong. People frequently say, "You have to respect > people's religious beliefs." You have to do no such thing. You have a right to > an opinion, right? What about the opinion that a religious belief is wacko (or > Waco, or Michigan, for that matter)? If people's religious beliefs seem > objectively wrong, or hurtful to the rest of society ("I must kill doctors who > perform abortions" or "I'm an Aryan and We must wipe out Jews"), or if they are > just not persuasive to you, then they have no right to expect your respect. No > opinions have a right to expect respect without earning it. Sure I do.. this is your opinion, and I believe it is wrong. You don't have to respect another person's religion, just their choice in making it. You can say I'm a no good heathonite(sp) for being agnostic till the cows come home, until you force me to believe in your god or gods, the sanctity of humanity, etc. What you are advocating here is the elimination of the fringe by popular vote. Why should I have to gain your's or anyone else's respect should I want to pray to lego land at the Mall of America(tm)? [snip] Anyways, I could go on.. but I need work done today. "wild" Bill (opinions are like noses, everyone has one) - -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 11:15:35 -0600 From: Josh Drury Subject: Re: Feeling Old KatieWow wrote: > > >Should Quebec separate? From what? > > Speaking of which, it seems that Quebec is bringing that business up again. > I saw a headline on Yahoo!News about it. > ~~kate Yeah, right. Support for separation is falling fast (now around 40%), and the PQ won a majority of seats on a minority of votes. The Liberals actually won the popular vote, 44% to 43%. Not Bouchard's "winning conditions", methinks. Josh Drury Winnipeg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 11:19:15 -0600 From: Josh Drury Subject: Re: Free Bird -- minimal Fru'tent Tim Cain wrote: > > And a few years ago, at an Indigo Girls show in Champaign, someone in the > audience yelled "Free Bird" when they asked for requests. They laughed, > said they didn't know it, and when someone yelled for "Helpless," they > laughed their way through the first verse and chorus.A year later, they > were playing Champaign again, and when someone yelled "Free Bird," they > played about 2 1/2 minutes of it. > Good for them! But you can't just play 2.5 minutes of it. You have to do the extended electric guitar solo! Oh, wait, you said "Indigo Girls". Josh Drury Winnipeg ------------------------------ Date: 3 Dec 1998 17:13:08 GMT From: joshw@bgnet.bgsu.edu (Josh Woodward) Subject: Re: Nields/EFO NasusT (nasust@aol.com) wrote: : Hi There! In case it hasn't been posted yet, for everyone who is NOT going out : to Clinton this weekend, The Nields and Eddie From Ohio are playing at the : Tralf in Buffalo this Friday night! They will also be playing at the Ark in Ann Arbor for those of us more westward fans. :) I can't wait for that.. a great combo. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Josh Woodward, CheEsy Fru. joshw@mail.bgsu.edu Web Site and Tape List: http://www.dc-adnet.com/joshw/ "It's just a tender blind spot, not the ruination of your soul." -- Peter Mulvey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 17:28:58 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: More Important Stuff (i.e. Hockey) Chad Maloney wrote: > > petit_chou@juno.com wrote: > > Would we be having such alienation issues if the discussion was about who > > rooted for what hockey team? > > Durned tootin' we would. Rangers fans would be lying dead at their > keyboards. Philly fans laughing at the poor Maple Leaf and Blackhawk fans. > Buffalo Sabres fans posting to the ng in full goalie gear cursing everyone. > > But when it is all said and done, we'd all love the St. Louis Blues. They are > the bass guitar of hockey. BLASPHEEEEEEEEEEEEMEER! The Detroit Red Wings are the ONLY true hockey team. Fans of any other franchise are doomed to eternal Hockey Hell!!!!!!!!!!!!! REPENT! REPENT! If you don't believe me, just ask Fordy at your next show. HE knows THE TRUTH! A.J. - -- Epitaph on a dead blues singer's gravestone: "I didn't wake up this morning . . ." _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V2 #77 *******************************************