From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V2 #61 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Wednesday, November 25 1998 Volume 02 : Number 061 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [An essay... (yup, its long)] ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: Other NGs was Re: with a rutabega [nicole.the.wonder.nerd.is@ana.ng.a] Re: [Re: [An essay... (yup, its long)]] [Angie Armstrong ] DOH!! [puggles@mindspring.com (Kelly MacDougal)] Re: An essay... (yup, its long) [lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD)] Re: Repost: re: Fruvous Egegesis- Sahara [Srm9988n@aol.com] Re: [Re: a hair comment ] [Angie Armstrong ] Things to do in Toronto [Chewbacca ] RE: Repost: re: Fruvous Egegesis- Sahara ["Demetriou, Melanie" ] Re: Fruvous Egegesis - Sahara [Josh Drury ] Happy Turkey day everyone!!! [Angie Armstrong ] Re: Californians:Frcon2 :: knights:Grail [nicole.the.wonder.nerd.is@ana.n] Re: Newspaper review of Friday Noho show [vika@ibm.net (Vika Zafrin)] netiquette (was An essay... (yup, its long)) [Ofer Inbar Subject: Re: [An essay... (yup, its long)] Angie Armstrong wrote: > *sigh* I think I'm in love... Woah Angie, I hope you can deal with LONG-distance relationships! :D > Wonderful musings Richard. Thank you for sharing and adding a perspective. I > would guess that many readers can relate and share your sentiments. (It made > me all gushy inside, hee hee). Oh Angie, admit it, it's the accent isn't it? :) So... see you at FrüCon? Wouldn't that be keen? But I'm afraid NoHo has probably strained Richard's exchequer to its limits. Maybe we could take up a collection? :) Seriously Richard, fabulous post. We'll miss you in Feb. A.J. - -- Epitaph on a dead blues singer's gravestone: "I didn't wake up this morning . . ." _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:21:36 GMT From: nicole.the.wonder.nerd.is@ana.ng.at.tmbg.org (Nicole the Wonder Nerd) Subject: Re: Other NGs was Re: with a rutabega On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:53:21 GMT, someone looking suspiciously like Fru-Monique whispered these words: >That's good to hear..I've never been in any other newsgroups. I've >only been part of this one for, what, three days now? Hey, welcome! :) Obligatory pointer to http://www.fruvous.com for all things Frü. I notice that your e-mail addy says "frumonique92". Are there 91 other Frumoniques? *nicole tries to picture this* Do you guys have conventions or something? - --nicole the wonder nerd stuck on campus 'til 6PM, the day before Thanksgiving. :( - -- "I want to be a woman like me!"--The Nields Visit Nicolopolis! http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~carlsonn Reply-to address is modified to escape the spammers... sorry for the inconvenience. spam trap: postmaster@localhost admin@localhost abuse@localhost root@localhost ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:31:49 GMT From: Angie Armstrong Subject: Re: [Re: [An essay... (yup, its long)]] (> *sigh* I think I'm in love... Woah Angie, I hope you can deal with LONG-distance relationships! :D) well, gotta rack up them frequent flyer miles somehow, right? *wink* (> Wonderful musings Richard. Thank you for sharing and adding a perspective. I > would guess that many readers can relate and share your sentiments. (It made > me all gushy inside, hee hee). Oh Angie, admit it, it's the accent isn't it? :)) hey! I'm tellin'! AJ's pickin on me!! (hee hee) (So... see you at FrüCon? Wouldn't that be keen? But I'm afraid NoHo has probably strained Richard's exchequer to its limits. Maybe we could take up a collection? :) ) so, we pack 'im in a box with an oxygen tank and... oh, sorry... :^) you'll have to forgive me... I'm actually having a good day at work and being somewhat productive... got some good news about an upcoming event and well, dammit, I'm giddy! (either that, or too much coffee...) - --Angie (grinning like a fool, heh heh) "Grown-ups never understand anything for themselves, and it is tiresome for children to be always and forever explaining things to them." -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery, _The Little Prince_ ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:54:21 GMT From: Fru-Monique Subject: Re: Other NGs was Re: with a rutabega - ---Nicole the Wonder Nerd wrote: > > Hey, welcome! :) Obligatory pointer to http://www.fruvous.com for > all things Frü. Whoohoo! Someone replied to my post! Merci beaucoup, Nicole. FDC is one of my regular stops, btw. > I notice that your e-mail addy says "frumonique92". Are there 91 > other Frumoniques? *nicole tries to picture this* Do you guys have > conventions or something? Ye gods, that would be scary!! 91 clones of moi?? One of me is bad enough! :P No, 92 is part of the addy b/c yahoo said "FruMonique" is already used (it's my yahoo chat name). 92 was a good year for me and one of my favorite numbers. > --nicole the wonder nerd "Wonder nerd"? What does that make me? Super nerd? Or just Fru-nerd? ;P ~Monique, who isn't French at all _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:31:41 -0700 From: katrin@dimensional.com (Katrin Luessenheide Salyers) Subject: Re: a hair comment In article <3fe145a3.365bde09@aol.com>, NYCjezebel@aol.com says... > a bit off-topic, but I've got hair a little bit like Jian's (mine is probably > a little curlier) and it is not a pretty sight, especially early in the > morning...I prefer his. Well, don't we all...I myself have gone through life with hair like Dave's (back when he had hair, that is). I think I'll just continue to deal with it, though - the last thing the world needs is another pudgy bald woman. k@ *shudder* ------------------------------ Date: 25 Nov 1998 18:25:48 GMT From: Gruneberg Veronica J <6vjg@qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: Re: Canadian TV Never heard of the show, but Mary Jane Lamond is indeed the voice of "Sleepy Maggie" :) Veronica (retreating back into her land of stress... 1 1/2 weeks until December exams, and all mine are finals! AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!) - -- ***************************************************************************** "I'm thankful for the McDonald's | Veronica Gruneberg Arch Deluxe burger, which | Dept. of Biology contains at least 10% less fat than | Queen's University a bowl of fat." | Kingston, Ontario - Royal Canadian Air Farce ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:39:21 GMT From: puggles@mindspring.com (Kelly MacDougal) Subject: DOH!! Well everyone I had a real "Doh!" moment just a little bit ago. I was listening to 'Gulf War Song' in the car and I was struck by one of the lyrics in particular, but first a small digression. Almost everyone here seems to have had something to say about our recent troll attack, whether direct rebuttal or the "plese just don't respond". There has also been a thread about how events in our daily lives spark lyrics in our heads. Well here is my lyric about the whole spam issue: What makes a person so poisonour righteous that they think less of anyone who just disagrees I don't know about the rest of you but it would seem that this would be a good time to take this to heart and bow before the great wisdom of those crazy canadians we all love. Just my 2 cents worth Kelly the chagrined ------------------------------ Date: 25 Nov 1998 18:46:14 GMT From: lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD) Subject: Re: An essay... (yup, its long) In article <365C107C.F570A89D@mdx.NONASTYSPAM.ac.uk>, Richard wrote: >Any library is full of books that fully and beautifully express every >emotion known to humanity and *they're* only expressed in text. This one's a bit of a red herring. Libraries are even more full of books that do not express things so aptly. And newsgroups are brimming with people who want to toss off sparks, fling ideas or jokes or opinions around with wild abandon. The very spontaneity is part of the appeal. Imagine a stately procession of carefully-worded, well-thought-out posts about...favorite candies? ... Jian's hair?...Dave's hair?...it boggles the mind. Newsgroups are populated by people probably somewhat above the average in intelligence and eloquence (obligatory noblesse oblige: especially this one!), but still 90% couldn't write as well as the people who have books published and bought by libraries. "Netiquette" as a list of reminders to readers and writers is necessary because normal nonelectronic human interaction is very different from the interaction that occurs in a newsgroup, and it takes some getting used to. Yes, it's true that a gifted writer can convey shades of feeling (to a gifted reader!) using "nothing but text," but the reader of a newsgroup article is not looking for the same thing that the reader of a book or other "professional" writing is looking for. If I were to read a book and find, "Steve, you were wrong about the question of using a photostrobe at a concert. I think it's a moral imperative to..." I'd be taken aback. I might get angry that someone is taking me to task in front of an abstract public. It's more disturbing to see it done in front of a group of people I have been directly communicating with through newsgroup posts. That doesn't mean that nobody should ever post opinions like that. It means that as a reader I have to take two or three steps back. It also means that in disagreeing with someone, I will avoid grief if I take a little extra care and remember that the considerable magnetism of my personal charm is largely hidden when I deliver my bold and trenchant criticisms without the brotherly pat on the elbow or understanding, sympathetic gaze. I could spend a week crafting a post that might -- might -- convey the pure balance and well-intentioned sincerity of my constructive criticism. Or I could post while anyone still remembers the thread, follow a few simple checklist rules about personal attack and not going over the top and trust that my readers have seen the same checklist and accepted it and are willing to discount any personal affront they might feel from my somewhat careless but timely effusions. So, writers and readers of newsgroups benefit from the notion of "netiquette", keeping in mind that most people aren't literary artists, and that most people will post with good intentions, however poorly expressed. The benefit of the doubt, and a pint of whiskey, makes the NG experience more enjoyable. Of course the whiskey goes without saying. Regards, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:27:14 GMT From: Srm9988n@aol.com Subject: Re: Repost: re: Fruvous Egegesis- Sahara >>'ll drink to that. ("bartender, scotch, 12yr old single malt, double, 1 >>rock, si vous plait; oh and another of whatever Steve's drinking, merci") >"One bourbon, one scotch, one beer" please. and bourbons and scotches and rums -- if Sahara's not about the rat pack, maybe *we* are. heh heh heh. Has Fruvous ever covered George Thorogood? "Bad to the Bone" would be a riot. And I can really see Murray funkin' out on that bass.... - -- Lori Happy Thanksgiving to the southern part of the Fruhead contingent! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:33:19 GMT From: Angie Armstrong Subject: Re: [Re: a hair comment ] (> a bit off-topic, but I've got hair a little bit like Jian's (mine is probably > a little curlier) and it is not a pretty sight, especially early in the > morning...I prefer his. Well, don't we all...I myself have gone through life with hair like Dave's (back when he had hair, that is). I think I'll just continue to deal with it, though - the last thing the world needs is another pudgy bald woman. k@ *shudder*) My hair in no way resembles the hair of any Moxy Früvous member. *sniff* well... I've been known to have coppery highlights and in the right lighting I suppose it _could_ be considered an "orangish" color... nah, that's reaching ;^) k@, I wouldn't worry about your hair, in the morning or otherwise... _I_ have a prime example of HMH (High Maintenance Hair). My friend Eric used to love to walk up to me and run his fingers through my hair, neck to crown... it stands nearly straight on end and stays there. *sigh* Living life in the 80's being able to spike my hair sans mousse or gel, ack! - --Angie, really wishing she hadn't had that 4th cup of coffee "Grown-ups never understand anything for themselves, and it is tiresome for children to be always and forever explaining things to them." -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery, _The Little Prince_ ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:13:44 -0600 From: Chewbacca Subject: Things to do in Toronto http://www.cnn.com/TRAVEL/CITY.GUIDES/WTR/north.america.profiles/nap.toronto.html This website provides information not only about things to do, but also about where to stay/eat/etc. Thought it might be of use to the Toronto Virgins headed to FruCon :) Arabel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:35:38 GMT From: "Demetriou, Melanie" Subject: RE: Repost: re: Fruvous Egegesis- Sahara On Wednesday, November 25, 1998 2:27 PM, Srm9988n@aol.com [SMTP:Srm9988n@aol.com] wrote: > Has Fruvous ever covered George Thorogood? "Bad to the Bone" would > be a riot. And I can really see Murray funkin' out on that bass.... I can see Murray singing lead! Speaking of the Murr-man, didn't somebody mention Tony Levin the other day? I was listening to some Peter Gabriel and thinking, man, Murray would *fly* on these bass lines! (Not that Tony Levin didn't do them justice, of course.) Or some old Genesis, say "Watcher of the Skies." Now *that* would **rock**!! Add it to the Fantasy Set List... Melanie, itchin' to get the h*ll out of here Happy Thanksgiving, y'all! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:48:11 GMT From: Marie.Claude@canada.com Subject: Beware of short-term day planner memory -- or of Fordy?? I was looking through my day planner for a phone number I know I had just scribbled somewhere in there, and I landed on Sept 27. And right beside "FORDY'S D-DAY!" was written "full-frontal nudity". In my own handwriting. I have no recollection of ever writing this. Should I worry? Marie-Claude - -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:07:06 GMT From: Marie.Claude@canada.com Subject: Re: [An essay... (yup, its long)] > *sigh* I think I'm in love... > Wonderful musings Richard. Heh. Stand in line ;) Am I allowed to be in more than one line at once? I believe I have dibs on Michelle's hubby Neil too... - -- Marie-Claude, sucking up to the mother country?? "I recognize you now!!! I slept next to you!!!" -- Leah to me - -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:52:37 GMT From: wahrend@my-dejanews.com Subject: Re: ~~~~MOXY FRUVOUS ARE PATHETIC--WHY?~~~~ In article <73h2va$pae$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, bbowen8@my-dejanews.com wrote: > How are we supposed to take criticism from a guy who also posts to > alt.elvis.sighting? > > Bill > Hey, the king will come again! Elvis lives! Its just a government plot to keep down all the fried chicken eaters of the world. You just wait and see. He's just biding his time, waiting for the day when the lamb chop sideburns come into style (hey disco is cool again, it can happen!) and then the second coming! Until then, be on the lookout for the secret evil world tour, coming to a burger king near you. "wild" Bill (back to work!) - -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:57:07 GMT From: Angie Armstrong Subject: Re: [Things to do in Toronto] (This website provides information not only about things to do, but also about where to stay/eat/etc. Thought it might be of use to the Toronto Virgins headed to FruCon :) Arabel) Speaking of things to do (only related Frü content is that it has to do with Toronto!), a friend of mine just called and told me that her road-trip co-pilot may not be able to go to Toronto to see Les Mis this weekend... and she offered the seat/ticket to me! and she said Colm Wilkinson _is_ performing for that Matinee!!!! wow, I haven't been to Toronto since the 9th grade... Nothing's definite, I'll know by Fri but... AAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!! two possibilities in 24 hours... someone's smilin' down :^) - --Angie, trying desperately to contain the glee (and failing) ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:40:27 GMT From: wahrend@my-dejanews.com Subject: Re: Californians:Frcon2 :: knights:Grail In article <365b7915.5126901@news.ucdavis.edu>, nicole.the.wonder.nerd.is@ana.ng.at.tmbg.org (Nicole the Wonder Nerd) wrote: > Hey all you Californians! > > Can we get an early headcount? Which of you are planning (however > tentatively) to attend FrüCon? > > --nicole twn I thought frucon was being held in california.... (*laugh* - wasn't that where frucon was going to be held in an article awhile back?). Just thought I'd crawl out of the woodwork for a second... "wild" Bill (counting down the hours until Depeche Mode !!!! yeah!! I know you're all jealous!) ----- Everything I've ever learned is wrong, so wrong. - -- Tanya Donelly, Pretty Deep - -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:23:36 -0600 From: Josh Drury Subject: Re: An essay... (yup, its long) Richard Butterworth wrote: (well, no point showing it ALL) > On trolls... > b) be polite, charming and funny. Take a look at Chad's response to the > last troll we had. That was brilliant! How did I not read it the first time? JD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:11:20 -0600 From: Josh Drury Subject: Re: Fruvous Egegesis - Sahara LeSystemeD wrote: > > In article <365B12CB.48E6@cc.umanitoba.ca>, Josh wrote: > > >Just a tidbit for some of you > >Sloaners out there. > > Umm, er, I know what a Sloane Ranger is if it's in London. Forgive my > parochialism, but what's a Sloaner? > > Regards, > Steve A fan of the Halifax-based (alternative) rock quartet, Sloan, of which I know there are at least a few within the newsgroup. Don't feel bad for not knowing, I don't even know what "parochialism" means. No need to fill me in, though, I'm on my way to an online dictionary as we speak. Josh Drury ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:03:34 GMT From: Angie Armstrong Subject: Happy Turkey day everyone!!! Man, it started off as such a good and productive day... then deteriorated into a brainless waiting game... waiting for 5pm so I can get the #$%^# outta here!!! Friends, acquaintances, FrüLovers far and wide... I wish you the happiest Thanksgiving, have a great weekend. I'm gonna rent movies, order pizza, and kick back (I love 4 day weekends). (I'll more than likely be in over the weekend, actually... need to get ready for a mass-mailing and I'll more than likely be online... I'm such a junkie!) Take care, enjoy your food comas!!! - --Angie Gone like the wind!!! ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:16:17 GMT From: nicole.the.wonder.nerd.is@ana.ng.at.tmbg.org (Nicole the Wonder Nerd) Subject: Re: Californians:Frcon2 :: knights:Grail On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:40:27 GMT, someone looking suspiciously like wahrend@my-dejanews.com whispered these words: >I thought frucon was being held in california.... (*laugh* - wasn't that >where frucon was going to be held in an article awhile back?). Yes! I remember reading that. Don't I just *wish*. :) - --nicole the wonder nerd Toronto in February... brrr... - -- "I want to be a woman like me!"--The Nields Visit Nicolopolis! http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~carlsonn Reply-to address is modified to escape the spammers... sorry for the inconvenience. spam trap: postmaster@localhost admin@localhost abuse@localhost root@localhost ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:59:04 GMT From: vika@ibm.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Newspaper review of Friday Noho show koogle@clark.net delighted us with: >Watching her, I got the feeling that her songwriting hasn't matured into her >voice. It's a good voice, though. Very powerful. She could be somebody to >watch. Hm. Where did you see her? When I saw her open for Fruvous during the MA, someone (ChrisO? Colleen?) remarked that she would be MUCH better in a smaller venue. (This was at the Paradise in Boston.) That Sunday, Chris and I went to see Fruvous in Burlington, VT, and I was absolutely *mesmerized* by her. She needs a crowd that she can talk to and work off of, I think. - -Vika, who thinks Jess was a great opener for Fruvous in VT :) Vika Zafrin vika@ibm.net Vika_Zafrin@Brown.edu "Lover holds you when others go, covers you with another soul, stands behind you when you stand alone and you don't explain..." -Patty Larkin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:27:22 GMT From: Ofer Inbar Subject: netiquette (was An essay... (yup, its long)) Richard Butterworth wrote: [A really good essay, including this one part I don't totally agree with] > I find the concept of netiquette a fallacy. I don't see why netiquette > should be any different from normal unelectronic human ettiquette. You > know? Concepts like thinking about what you say before you say it? > Trying to have some empathy with who you're talking to? Being polite? > Not charging shouting into a conversation and then apologising > afterwards? Why do we have to lay down these rules on a newsgroup when > they are just perfectly normal, obvious rules of human behaviour? Maybe > I'm just too old fashioned and too English. That's true to a point, but observe that we already have different rules of etiquette for different social contexts and for different communications media. The telephone, the written letter, the chance conversation, the scheduled appointment, and so on - each one has conventions that go with it, that are different, because each one allows for communication differently. Etiquette isn't an inflexible set of rules, it's a set of agreed upon conventions for how to act *in the absence of* any other agreement. Etiquette is what you use when you're unfamiliar with the situation and don't know the people. Eventually, as you get to know them, you can come up with ways of behaving that suit you and them better. When you make a phone call, it is customary to open with "Hello, may I speak with Dave?" (Change the name to whoever you really want to talk to. Though if you're at Brandeis University, you don't really need to - - there's at least one Dave that goes with every phone number. I know of an engaged (married?) couple who originally met that way - she made a random call to a random on campus number, and asked for Dave.) Then you wait for the person on the other end to either confirm that they are Dave, or to go get them. Clearly, this bit of "etiquette" makes no sense when you're talking to someone in person, and if you're writing a letter then waiting for a response before continuing would put you and your pen-pal into what Computer Science people "deadlock". (ha! I connected to another thread! :) Similarly, there's a bit of netiquette that says if you write a word in all-caps or enclose it in *'s then you're putting strong emphasis on that word, but if you write a whole sentence (or more) in all caps that means you're screaming. Not all media require a convention on how to indicate that you're screaming :) Written letters *could* have such a convention, but instead, etiquette simply says "don't scream" in postal letters (as usual, once you know someone, you can develop your own conventions and forget the etiquette). What about quoting for context? Netiquette says that in a newsgroup, you should quote relevant pieces of the message you're responding to. But you should *not* quote irrelevant bits, or quote significantly more text than what you're actually writing. How do you translate that to other media? This bit of netiquette comes from the fact that in a newsgroup, many conversations are happening at once, and many different people are hopping into and out of them, so it's important to repeat things so that people don't lose track of the context. And it also comes from the fact that it's easy to do. There are similar bits of "netiquette" about how to handle Subject lines, where to post followups to, and so on. "Easy to do" can be an important factor. For example, although it's generally considered rude to send a chain letter by postal mail, people tend not to get too upset about it, and if it looks like it's for a good cause, it may be OK. But because chains are so easy to forward to large numbers of people, very quickly, on the net, they became a very serious problem in the early days, and consequently a much stronger anti-chain etiquette developed. If any of you have unwittingly forwarded chain mails to large numbers of people, you've probably gotten some very strongly worded replies :) Then there's the fact that when you post here, you write a complete message, perhaps many paragraphs, without getting any response. Then you post the whole thing, and often go away, only coming back the next day to see all the responses at once. It's sort of like writing a letter, except that when you write a letter you know who you're sending it to. It's sort of like making a speech to a group, except then you can see their faces and hear their interruptions and don't have a chance to stop and think and go back to change what you said. One of the most subtle yet pervasive differences between online messaging and other forms of communication, is the difference in the rate of time. Time on the net is not real time. We're all used to the gross difference in time-flow between postal letters and real time, but the much subtler shades of variation that come up in different kinds of online communication are less familiar to people. A newsgroup, especially one with a mail gateway, is one of the weirdest. Messages may come out of order, so you see the followup before you see the original. Some people may see a message, respond to it, and see the response to their response, before other people see any of the exchange. On IRC, time flows differently for people depending on their typing speed and how good their network connection is. And so on. These things alter the ways we communicate, and mean that we need somewhat different rules of etiquette. You can get a sense of how weird this is if your try several different media simultaneously with the same people. Get in a room with several computers or terminals, and a phone. All of you log in, get on the same IRC channel, and start sending each other email too, while you make occasional verbal comments across the room. Call up a room where some other people are, who are also on the same IRC channel, and who are also trading emails with you. It sounds crazy, but it's very interesting. (Yes, I've done things like this! Stop laughing! :) So, yes, etiquette is etiquette, but it varies by context. For example, > Concepts like thinking about what you say before you say it? > Trying to have some empathy with who you're talking to? ...both of these concepts still apply, but *how* to apply them gets very different when you don't know who you're talking to. (You may think you know some of them, but maybe those people aren't reading this week. And you certainly don't know all of them.) (The sig below dates from the days when the Internet was still officially a research & education network, personal use ok, commercial use heavily frowned upon.) -- Cos (Ofer Inbar) -- cos@leftbank.com cos@cs.brandeis.edu -- The Left Bank Operation -- lbo@leftbank.com http://www.leftbank.com/ "We all misuse the net for personal gain, one way or another." -- Larry Wall ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V2 #61 *******************************************