From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V1 #800 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Wednesday, October 14 1998 Volume 01 : Number 800 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Where is Clinton? ["Aye, who's asking whom?" ] Illinois, Indiana, Ohio (was Jordans) [Ofer Inbar ] Re: Where is Clinton? [Ofer Inbar ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:24:06 GMT From: "Aye, who's asking whom?" Subject: Re: Where is Clinton? >Ahh, I didn't know about the other Clinton 100 miles away. So, is the >town of Kirkland located in a township or county called Clinton? Neither. Let me explain: in New York State, villages are incorporated subsets of towns (or townships, if you will). While each town need not have any villages, there are no parts of New York State that lack a township or a city to incorporate the land. The town of Kirkland holds within it Clinton, Franklin Springs, and I think it may have some other chunk called Hecla. Counties hold the many towns and cities, with the exception of New York City (which holds five counties, each of which is a borough. However, if you ask I can tell you about the exception) The Clinton we will be seeing Fruvous within is in Oneida County, as is Utica (one of two county seats) and that casino off exit 33. The city of Oneida is in Madison County, but the village of Oneida Castle is in Oneida County. Clinton County is at the top of the state and bordered by Lake Champlain, its county seat being Plattsburgh. It's this kind of logic that keeps the Empire State on top. >Well, yeah, but Sangertown's not exactly downtown Utica, either. It's >technically in New Hartford, and it's the other edge of New Hartford New Hartford has no edge. It's the suburbs: they can't swing, man... >from Utica, if I remember correctly. Not that New Hartford really has >an existence of its own - everyone who lives there says they live in >Utica, anyway :) Still, Clinton seems distant/distinct enough that, >given Utica's small size, I don't think I'd call it a suburb. Utica HAS suburbs, okay? Utica is a city, and suburbs are the towns around a city holding residents that work in that city or in other towns near the city. So what if New Hartford's population is now close to Utica's, and Utica's shrinks 1000 a year (it was 100k in 1960, now it's closer to 65k). Worcester has suburbs, and even Pittsfield has suburbs. Size, the poorly hung city proclaims, has nothing to do with it. >You also have the brewery that makes my favorite root beer: Saranac. >And the Boiler Run foot race (is that what it's called?) Boilermaker, like the drink. When I was a kid, brewery tours were free. >No problem, take Genesee Street instead :-) While Genesee Street is pretty, is has the most traffic light of any length of city street in the electrified part of the world. None of these lights are co-ordinated, so you get to know each one quite well. It takes 15 minutes to get to Utica National (the 5 -12 - 12B split) by Genesee Street, and six by the Arterial. By the way, for those of you coming from Philly, I'd take 476 until it becomes that Penn Pike N.E. Extension, then I-81 north past Binghamton. Get off exit 6 and turn right (follow signs for Norwich) onto route 12 north. Take that past Norwich into Sherburne, then 12B north into Clinton. (Right before Clinton, a sign for 233 north appears with a sign for Hamilton College. Hint hint.) >Move to Boston ;-) I debated moving to Boston once, but your rents are HIGH and while you have a beautiful mass-transit system, it's only useful if you're going downtown. - --Can't get there from here, Dante ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:34:10 GMT From: Ofer Inbar Subject: Illinois, Indiana, Ohio (was Jordans) Chad Maloney wrote> > "Jordan I. K. McClure" wrote> > > Actually I am a Jordan from Illinois, not Indiana (unless there is a > > mysterious fourth Jordan). I know it's hard for some of you > > non-natives to tell the difference but there's an easy way> In > > Indiana, there's more than corn. Illinois has just corn. > > I hate to tell Indiana's secret, but really all that is just > proganda sent over to Illinois to get more tourists. Really, > we only got corn too. Well, and basketball I guess... Illinois has radio stations worth listening to. But Indiana has the largest of all college chapels, at the infamous Valparaiso University. So infamous that even some people outside of Indiana might have heard of it. Maybe. Indiana also has Goshen, its "close but no cigar" version of Oberlin. Hmm, come to think of it, it's Ohio and Indiana that are *really* hard to tell apart. A friend of mine who went to college in Indiana for a while once told me, "there really is a difference, there's a kind of rivalry going - the people in Indiana and Ohio each look down on the other state." I asked, "why, because they're so completely the same that they have to have a rivalry to hide it?". She said, "well, yeah." She did teach me how to tell the difference between Mennonite and non-Mennonite farms, as we were driving around county routes. But that doesn't help you figure out if you're in Indiana or Ohio, they both have Mennonites (and Illinois doesn't, does it?). And county routes. I guess you can look at the Interstate signs. The numbers may not help - if you see "80/90" you know you must be in IN or OH but not which one. However, if the next "big city" on the mileage signs has a name that starts with a C, you're probably in Ohio. Toledo was just named that way to fool people into thinking they're in Indiana. After all, it's the northwest corner of OH, so it's not part of OH, just like the northwest corner of IN isn't part of IN. If Ohio has a secret to lure more tourists, I have no idea what it is. -- Cos (Ofer Inbar) -- cos@leftbank.com cos@cs.brandeis.edu -- The Left Bank Operation -- lbo@leftbank.com http://www.leftbank.com/ "You have 2 messages. To listen to a message, press 5". I press 5. "First message. Message erased due to system error. The message will be saved. To mark the message to be erased, press 7." -- true experience with a voicemail system which shall not be named ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:35:16 GMT From: Ofer Inbar Subject: Re: Where is Clinton? "Aye, who's asking whom?" writes: > 1) The town of Clinton and the village of Clinton are over 100 miles from > each other (there's a town of Clinton somewhere on the Hudson). The village > of Clinton is in the town of Kirkland, south of Westmoreland (NOT W. > Moreland, but like the general from Vietnam). Ahh, I didn't know about the other Clinton 100 miles away. So, is the town of Kirkland located in a township or county called Clinton? > assumed into an orbital position). While Clinton is definitely distinct from > Utica (the median income is higher, the houses are older, the residents > resent Uticans moving out from my Utica neighborhood to the village), it's > only five minutes from the Village Green to the main mall within forty miles > (Sangertown Square). Well, yeah, but Sangertown's not exactly downtown Utica, either. It's technically in New Hartford, and it's the other edge of New Hartford from Utica, if I remember correctly. Not that New Hartford really has an existence of its own - everyone who lives there says they live in Utica, anyway :) Still, Clinton seems distant/distinct enough that, given Utica's small size, I don't think I'd call it a suburb. I think I bought the shirt I'm wearing now at Sangertown Square Mall :) > 3) Utica isn't boring! We have a manic-depressive mayor with delusions of > being human, an art gallery designed by the greatest American architect > alive, Philip Johnson (he also designed the AT&T Building in Manhattan, > which looks like a tombstone with a scroll-hole on the top, and the Lipstick > Building), and we have some of the finest almond paste cookies in the world > (at the Florentine on Bleecker, which we misspell). Oh, and the enitre city > has this delusion that economic recoveries happen magically... You also have the brewery that makes my favorite root beer: Saranac. And the Boiler Run foot race (is that what it's called?) > okay, Utica died in 1960 and no one has gotten an idea how to revive > it. Please give me a job! I have a bachelor's degree from a major > university! I'll move anywhere! I'll cook! I'll clean! Come back! But yes, Utica is indeed a rather dead place. Every Utican I've ever known will admit to this fact. (That's five, counting you, 'cause you just admitted it too :) > >Thruway all the way to Albany and continue on I-90 west (still the New > >York Thruway) to Utica. At the Utica exit, follow signs for 5/8/12 > >south & west, which should take you to "the arterial". Take the > > I wouldn't want to stick anyone on the Arterial just because it has no logic > to it. We named an expressway with an adjective, not a noun (artery, a la > Boston), we put stops lights on it to please a meat market that moved across > town after it was built, and it's easier to get off at the exit past Utica > (exit 32, Westmoreland) and go south until you see a sign for Hamilton Well, Geenius is probably right about the directions from DC - as I said, I've never driven that route. Coming from Boston, though, I'd definitely take the arterial, 'cause it's shorter and faster than going to the Westmoreland exit (and, as you say, a bit cheaper). Coming from the west it probably does make sense to go that route. > College. While I enjoy driving the Arterial and it's an easy navigation, it > subjects visitors to a boring part of Utica and a part filled with bad No problem, take Genesee Street instead :-) > >arterial past Utica until it stops being a divided highway, and you > >get to a really weird intersection, like the kind you find in Boston :) > > Route 5 splits to the mall, 12 goes south to Binghamton, and 12B heads to > Clinton. It's only twisted because a local insurance firm and country club > purposely bought land in the intersection right-of-way. Ahh, I never understood why that intersection was so weird! Thanks. For the record, its weirdness doesn't really come into play if you're coming from the arterial going to Clinton - just stay in the left lane and watch for the 12B sign. Going the other way is a different matter. But it shouldn't bother the Bostonians :) > I am assuming the Boston bit would be where route 2 hits Alewife > Station and half a ghetto pops up from nowhere. Nahhh, route 2 by Alewife is actually pretty simple. I'm talking more about places like Union Square, Somerville; Medford Square; the 28/38 exit off I-93; the route 20 exit of I-95; the soldiers field road & memorial drive loop/split/merge thingies on either side of the Charles in Newton and Watertown; the little mess by the Arborway T stop; South Station; The Jamaicaway meeting Commonwealth Ave & Storrow Drive; Harvard Square / Brattle Square ... > --no really, gimme a job! Four years in radio! Office and sales training! Je > peux lire francais! Dante Move to Boston ;-) -- Cos (Ofer Inbar) -- cos@leftbank.com cos@polyamory.org The law doth punish man or woman, That steals the goose from off the common, But lets the greater felon loose, That steals the common from the goose. Anon, 18th cent., on the enclosures. (courtesy of John Whiting) ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V1 #800 ********************************************