From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V1 #108 Reply-To: ammf@smoe.org Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Wednesday, July 15 1998 Volume 01 : Number 108 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Warning Stickers (was: greetings from Alberta!) [Maige Subject: Warning Stickers (was: greetings from Alberta!) beetleschka@my-dejanews.com wrote: > Another point: if my copy of "Live Noise" had carried a warning sticker (which > it didn't) I wouldn't have felt the least bit ashamed of myself for buying it. > I dont think this is freakishness on my part.... I have found in various cities where I've travelled to see Fruvous, that there -are- warning stickers being placed on the "Live Noise" CD. In each case, I, being a "squeaky wheel" for Fruvous, have scanned the store for an employee (preferably the Manager) and made a point to explain to them a little about the content. In most cases I've convinced them to listen to it for themselves so that they wouldn't feel uneasy recommending the CD. As for my opinion on warning stickers; Those who know me also know that occasionally I have been referred to as the "PG girl" much to my chagrin. ;) However, it is true that I don't appreciate "bad" language for it's own sake. My father once said something when I was a child that I never forgot: "People who use dirty words are only proving that they aren't smart enough to think of something better to say." (or something to that effect). Granted, I've been known to use an expletive now and again to bring home a point or simply because I'm in a rotten mood. I also have no qualms about saying that the improvs on "Live Noise" (Lowest, Highest Point and Naked Puppets) were amusing -because- of the bad language. So, what does that say about me? Am I a hypocrite? [Those are rhetorical questions because I know who I am.] :) My point is this; IMHO, there are universal truths in all societies, religions, communities, etc. which denote what is or isn't acceptable behavior. Through the use of inductive reasoning [that is, the establishment of general truths upon the basis of know facts (ie. voting, letters to congress, petitions) before such truths were to be used as premises for specific application] our government (be it Federal or community based) has provided a way to help parents monitor what their child is listening to. What the parent does with that information is irrelevant. The point is, the government saw a need and/or want of this society and provided a solution. The solution has not infringed on anyone's first amendment rights, nor has it disallowed the progression of anyone's creativeness. If, in fact, the sticker has turned away some of our more conservative/right-wing friends - I would be the first to admit that they probably wouldn't like Fruvous anyway. Also, if a sticker gets a parent's attention long enough to talk to their child about the music they are listening to...I say, "Yay!"...At least they are talking. :) Always, - Maige ;P - -- *************************************** "To be different is to suffer at the hands of the normal." THE ULTIMATE FRONTIER - Eklal Kueshana 1963AD *************************************** ICQ Fru-fans List: http://www.bigfoot.com/~fruvous Contact me at: Fruvous@bigfoot.com ICQ# 8662607 kats@mail.microserve.net LadyMaige@hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:15:25 GMT From: "Demetriou, Melanie" Subject: RE: CDA & Neil Peart On Tuesday, July 14, 1998 5:48 PM, Starfox [SMTP:starfox@dfw.nationwide.net] wrote: > Demetriou, Melanie wrote: > [snippage of a good post about censorship] Thanks. > I'm all censored out right now, so I'll just say this... > > : It ought to be second nature > : At least, that's what I feel > : Now I lay me down in dreamland > : I know perfect's not for real > : I thought we might get closer > : But I'm willing to make a deal > : - Rush > > Awesome quote. :) That's another lovely song off a kickass album. Actually, the whole song applies to our discussion about censorship, when you think about it. And the existence of this song proves that a person's thinking on these issues can evolve from being idealistic and very black & white, to a more realistic and moderate point of view. Perhaps this is why I like the lyrics so much. Neil Peart's growth preceded my own. > Sadly though, the future of Rush may be uncertain in the wake of > the death of Neal Peart's wife (his daughter died in a car accident > just a few short months ago). I am obviously getting very old, because I had not heard of this. I did hear the end of a conversation on the radio talking about the future of Rush. The events you mention must have been mentioned in the first half of that conversation. This is terribly depressing news. I think this was Neil's second marriage, so it's even more tragic. And his daughter first. God, I'm totally sad for him. I hope he continues to write, though. He's so good at it, and it must be an outlet for him, one would think. Sigh. Melanie I've had better days ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:51:23 GMT From: Christi218@aol.com Subject: Re: Warning Stickers (was: greetings from Alberta!) In a message dated 98-07-15 13:03:31 EDT, kats@mail.microserve.net writes: << My point is this; IMHO, there are universal truths in all societies, << religions, communities, etc. which denote what is or isn't acceptable << behavior. Through the use of inductive reasoning [that is, the << establishment of general truths upon the basis of know facts (ie. << voting, letters to congress, petitions) before such truths were to be << used as premises for specific application] our government (be it Federal <) Christine. - --Chrissy_K on irc ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jul 1998 19:31:57 GMT From: dot0926@aol.com (Dot0926) Subject: RE: CDA (The sky is falling!) >wahrend@my-dejanews.com wrote: >> >"Demetriou, Melanie" So what happens to those kids that >> >are alone? Do they suffer because their parents had to work, or just >weren't >> >around for whatever reason? Must the sins of the fathers truly be visited >> >upon the sons? >> > >Like most things a computer can be made resonably "safe". What I mean by >that is that you can download free software that can lock your computer so >that your child can't just wander on while you're not home and surf to all >those nasty sites. There are also software packages like net nanny and surf >watch or something like that. however, most people don't realize that there is a huge problem with those net nanny programs as well...... ( the following is excerpted from peacefire, a student run anti- censorship group, which i belong to for more information, go to www.peacefire.org ) In July 1996, reporters Brock Meeks and Declan McCullagh published an article in the CyberWire Dispatch, describing the discoveries they had made regarding some of the "blocking programs" on the market. 1996 was the year of widespread opposition to the Communications Decency Act, a law that would have prohibited the transmission of "indecent" material on the Internet. Many free-speech advocates claimed that blocking software--which one person can install on a computer to control what another person is able to access--was the correct approach to the question of free speech on the Internet. But prior to the CyberWire Dispatch article, few people were aware of what these "filtering" programs were really blocking. If you download a page containing the phrase "gay rights", for example, the filtering program CYBERsitter will delete the phrase and fill in the space with the surrounding words. The program also blocks the web sites of the National Organization for Women, the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission, and the Penal Lexicon -- a UK-based web site dedicated to raising awareness of prison conditions in Great Britain. Or take Cyber Patrol, a program with far much more market share than CYBERsitter, which, in addition to blocking EFF, has in the past blocked the Animal Rights Resource Site at Envirolink as well as the web pages of the CyberWire Dispatch, where the article criticizing blocking software first appeared. As for newsgroups, Cyber Patrol blocks an atheist newsgroup, a feminist newsgroup, and the entire hierarchy of discussion groups related to journalism. Most of the major blocking programs store their list of "bad sites" in an encrypted format, so that customers typically can't find out what is being blocked except by trial and error. And sometimes the company's claims regarding what is really blocked do not match up with the actual behavior of the product. Consider this question from a consumer advocacy point of view. Why replace thousands of years of parental guidance with technological solutions, such as blocking software and the V-Chip? Where was the transition made, from teaching and learning the difference between good and bad, to using software "filters" to block out the bad in the world as if it didn't exist? "If you're worried abour your child's accidentally seeing content you disapprove of, you shouldn't be -- there's little that one sees on the Net accidentally. If you're worried about your child's choosing to see content you disapprove, there is only one solution that works reliably (in my view), and that is to teach your child to disapprove of the same things you do. This also happens to be the solution most consistent with the values of an open society." - --Mike Godwin, father Like it or not, there are some social problems that cannot be solved by software. (And this is coming from people who use their computers to make phone calls and write their lists of things to do in Microsoft Excel.) "As will always be true, the most effective method of getting comfortable with your child's Internet access is to guide them as a parent. No other human being except you knows best what is and isn't appropriate for them. By learning to use the Internet with your child (either one of you can teach the other) you can instill in them the values that you want them to use when selecting material in the Internet, or on television, radio, or in print media. The respect built between you and your child will function when no one is around, and will survive software upgrades, eternally- changing international law, and other unpredictable events. This solution is supported as the best one by most reasonable parents and free speech advocates." - --from the VTW Internet Parental Control Frequently Asked Questions >"wild" Bill (on a secret mission to replace his lost goatee) ----- hmm, not so secret now, is it? :) - -nora ************************************************************************** ******* " there's something exciting about the failure of modern technology to create a real looking fake human." - john linnell nora cohen (dot0926@aol.com) **************** ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V1 #108 ********************************************