From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V1 #100 Reply-To: ammf@smoe.org Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Tuesday, July 14 1998 Volume 01 : Number 100 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: greetings from Alberta! [Starfox ] Re: Talents? (Was: Re: Fruvous Question...) [Chad Maloney ] Re: question for a knowledgable fruvous fan [Chad Maloney Subject: Re: greetings from Alberta! Vika Zafrin wrote: : Psychological suppression has nothing to do with this. They aren't : using magical radio waves to make us all into zombies, repeating "Must : do this; can't do that" to ourselves. They are telling us what they : think and allowing us to think for ourselves. Why should they impose what they think on a work (be it music, a piece of literature, or movies) in the first place? You seem to like playing both sides for the middle. On one hand you say it's the majority of people who determine this kind of stuff, but then turn around and apply what you think as an individual to said rules. Let's keep it in perspective. We're talking about how said policies and issues affect the general public. Not you or I, since we are free thinking deviants. :) Starfox "Conform to non-conformity! :)" - -- Starfox starfox (at) nationwide dot net "We each pay a fabulous price, for our visions of paradise." - Rush "Mission" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:12:48 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: Talents? (Was: Re: Fruvous Question...) Vika Zafrin wrote: > *laugh* Well, Chad, I know nothing of your musical ability - but what > *are* you talented in? This goes for everyone - what're your hobbies, Well, since you addressed me directly (oh, wait, that was the other Chad *grin*, oh well), I do lotsa things I enjoy. I'm a bass player (surprise!) and I like playing in small jazz/blues combos and large ensembles (but that's hard to find a place to do). I'm also an avid concert-goer, like many people around here =) The Bela Fleck concert last night was incredible (and there's another one tonight too) if you wanted to know. And I also entertain a rather-largish CD collection of various asundry music (Chad's recommendation for the week: Uncle Tupelo. I've been rediscovering them after the new Wilco/Billy Bragg Woody Guthrie Tribute CD reminded me Jeff Tweedy is really good. So I dusted off some Tupelo tapes and was reminded how wonderful they are). I also enjoy bike riding when I'm not travelling on weekends and cooking also. In my spare spare time, I'm a computer geek playing around with his slower-than-dirt Linux machine (with lynx open to http://www.fruvous.com and my IRC client open to #MoxyFruvous on Undernet (*plug plug*)). I also read a lot in my late night spare spare time. And right now, I enjoy burning myself with my soldering iron while pretending I know what I'm doing trying to fix my fretless bass. - Chad ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jul 1998 15:44:02 GMT From: Starfox Subject: Re: greetings from Alberta! Vika Zafrin wrote: :>"Do you think you'll have some power, signing a petition?" : Well, do you? No. : They have a louder voice than you do. Plus, the Congress represents : the (voting) population of this country, which is predominantly : conservative. We are in the minority here, Andy. This is what gives : them the right to say to the world that they don't like to hear the F : word on this record. Ok, so supression of rights is okay if you happen to be in the majority? By your logic, slavery would still be practiced. I have no problem with majority rule, but NOT when it infringes upon the rights of others. : Again: Explicit Lyrics does NOT equal Shitty Music. And if it does : to someone, then they either have their reasons (which I can respect) : or just aren't thinking (which I can't respect and thus am not hugely : concerned about what they think, except maybe to the extent of trying : to teach them to think for themselves). The problem is that majority you spoke of earlier doesn't think for themselves, and hence will believe what others tell them to. Therefore those little stickers become censorship by proxy. : I immediately assume that there may be nudity, or violence, and I : should probably watch the movie first before showing it to my kid : (which I don't have. I'm being completely hypothetical here.) Will I : automatically prohibit my kid from watching it? Don't be silly. I'll : decide whether that happens, thank you. You're talking about yourself. The conservative masses will simply just ban their kids from seeing it. : I don't do other people's associations. I consider the social context : and then decide for myself which association I am going to ascribe to : the label. Yeah, I label the label. For myself. That's you, again, not the majority of flock following american public. : Because, again, this is a predominantly conservative society, and most : of it probably does agree with, and welcomes, the warning labels. But : YOU don't have to conform to that. I'm forced to conform to it since if I wrote music (unfortunately I can't carry a tune in a bucket) I would have to face my work having those stickers placed upon it. : You educate that parent. You said that yourself. The question is, : how do you educate them effectively? If you don't have laws to back : you up, they'll probably growl at you not to interfere in how they : raise THEIR child. And they'll be right. On the other hand, a law : makes one think twice. If you do nothing to oppose the law legally, : you will be assumed to accept it, and will be punished if you break : it. BUT you are welcome to oppose it, of course. Do you have another : suggestion for educating people? And what would you include in the : curriculum? Thank you, you just proved my point. :) Making the parents legally responsible for their kids actions (I'm not saying try the parent of a kid who shoots his classmates for murder, but make them an accessory to it), would give you that set of "laws to back you up". Starfox "This is more fun than watching the tools to do my job not work." - -- Starfox starfox (at) nationwide dot net "We each pay a fabulous price, for our visions of paradise." - Rush "Mission" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:30:15 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: question for a knowledgable fruvous fan J E Jacobs wrote: > > I'm a pretty new fan... less than a year. I have both Bargainville and Go To > The Moon. I love them both. I remember hearing that there are at least two > other full length CDs. Anyone know how I can get them? Are they still sold in > stores? I would so appreciate a reply. Hi JJ! Welcome to the ng! You can find all the information you would ever care to know (and more) at http://www.fruvous.com (FDC for those in the know *grin*), your one stop for all things Fruvous. The upper right corner is the Discography which will list all the albums, plus some other things the Fru-lads have collaborated on. Bargainville and YWGTTM are both available in the US right now. The "new" album, Live Noise, is also available and should be widely available. My Borders (I don't own it, but it is so close to me and I've spend enough money there that I get possessive) had 8 copies of Live Noise a two weeks ago (down to 3 now!! Yay!). The other two albums, one full lenght, one not-so-full length, are only available in Canada right now. I've seen dates for Wood and "b"'s release in August, but I don't recall official word from Kevin (from BLRC, Fruvous's label in the states) on when it is yet. Wood and "b" are both available at shows as well from (Dave) Toby, the friendly neighborhood merch-man and roB! Johnson lookalike. Just check out the Tour Dates on FDC for a date near you and you can pick up your copy there. Or there's ordering information directly from MFHQ on FDC also (that's the Merchandise button on the main screen bottom). Hope that helps. - Chad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:29:13 GMT From: dacilen@bu.edu (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: greetings from Alberta! On 14 Jul 1998 15:44:02 GMT, Starfox wrote: >Ok, so supression of rights is okay if you happen to be in the majority? >By your logic, slavery would still be practiced. I have no problem >with majority rule, but NOT when it infringes upon the rights of others. What rights of yours are suppressed here, by the government expressing its opinion? Yours, personally? Not the rights of people who are "following the flock"? >The problem is that majority you spoke of earlier doesn't think for >themselves, and hence will believe what others tell them to. Therefore >those little stickers become censorship by proxy. No, they don't. Rather, those people become victims to their own ignorance. The only way of education I can think of is to teach them to *think* for themselves. >You're talking about yourself. The conservative masses will simply just >ban their kids from seeing it. If you're a minor, and worthy of the right to buy the music you want, you will (respectfully!) challenge your parents on this point, and debate with them. If you don't, or if you start whining to them about it, then you're not doing your part to get what you want. Unless, of course you have a friend who is of age (or looks that way). >That's you, again, not the majority of flock following american public. The structure of this country provides plenty of opportunity, in schools and otherwise, for one to learn to think for him/herself. If a person chooses not to, that's not the government's problem. Not should it be your crusade to impose *your* views/lifestyle on them - after all, maybe they *like* having the government "tell" them what they should or shouldn't listen to. >I'm forced to conform to it since if I wrote music (unfortunately I can't >carry a tune in a bucket) I would have to face my work having those >stickers placed upon it. That's the risk you take. Musicians and other artists work in the context of their own society - even "abstract" works are abstract within the context of that society. So they have a responsibility to that society, and if they choose to use words deemed inappropriate by a large portion of it, they'll have to deal with a label that does nothing but express the conservatives' opinion on it. Consider another thing: if you, as an artist, really don't want the stickers, it's up to you (and your management) to market you only in those record stores where they won't put the stickers on. If it gets to be a question of Money and Fame vs. Principles, it'll be up to you to make a decision. >Thank you, you just proved my point. :) Making the parents legally >responsible for their kids actions (I'm not saying try the parent >of a kid who shoots his classmates for murder, but make them an >accessory to it), would give you that set of "laws to back you up". Your original suggestion was to make parents "spend time in jail." I said that that was excessive, that the punishment did not fit the crime. Here, I am making the suggestion that the very existence of a law will make people think twice about their actions, and is a way of educating people. If you find out about a law and say "Wait! I don't like that at all!" then you are free to oppose it in ways already discussed. I did notice that you don't believe you'll have some power signing a petition, which tells me that there isn't an issue you are passionate enough about to try this. If there truly arises such an issue, you'll run, not walk, to gather signatures, get crowds together and go to the congressman's office. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vika [VEE-kah] Zafrin Patron Saint of Caffeine dacilen at bu dot edu aka Coffee Fru "You and your hula dance of culinary delight..." -ceecee ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V1 #100 ********************************************