From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V1 #98 Reply-To: ammf@smoe.org Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Tuesday, July 14 1998 Volume 01 : Number 098 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: greetings from Alberta! [dacilen@bu.edu (Vika Zafrin)] Re: greetings from Alberta! [dacilen@bu.edu (Vika Zafrin)] Re: foreign language lyrics [wahrend@my-dejanews.com] Re: foreign language lyrics [dacilen@bu.edu (Vika Zafrin)] Re: greetings from Alberta! [dot0926@aol.com (Dot0926)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:07:57 GMT From: dacilen@bu.edu (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: greetings from Alberta! Ahh, Andy... I see you're just as much of a slacker at work as I am... :D On 14 Jul 1998 12:44:41 GMT, Starfox wrote: >society (n): 1. a group of persons forming a single community. 2. the system > of living together in such a group. 3. all people, collectively 4. > companionship 5. an organized group with some interest in common. Okay, so what society do you identify yourself with? I mean, I know you live in TX (or do you? Somewhere around there, no?), but what do you think of as your society? Disclaimer: I do NOT identify with the whole of the United States as my society. In fact, I don't consider myself completely an American yet. I feel that I am still an outsider, in the way I think and in the importance I ascribe to different things. But I *do* consider the U.S. one, whole, society with many communities in it. It's a subtle difference, and to me, a community is something one is a part of completely by choice. A society you may be born into, or brought into by parents. >to society. Government exists to provide for the needs of a society >to interact with other societies in the area of forgein affairs, manage >the economy, provide for the general defense, and to legislate. Of course. But note that you included legislation in there. How would you like them to legislate? Again, these are people that are trying their best to organize somehow a nation that takes up a LOT of land, and it's not easy for them. And, again, no matter what kind of law they pass, there will be people who will not like it. They know that, and they take that risk. A politician's job is a thankless one (unless they're after big money, in which case they'll get what they want if they're good at playing the game). They go into it knowing that they won't be liked by some of their constituents. But they're willing to sit there and rack (sp?) their brains to do stuff like public transportation and schooling and such. Yeah, there are many problems with the decisions they make, but you don't see it as being static, do you? It's constantly moving, and it's up to the voting population to make it move in the right direction. >The problem with countries is that you have many little societies >banding (or in some cases, thrown) together to form a larger super-state >society. Yeah, but that's one of the restrictions of the world in which we, at this point in our evolution, have to live. There are people who choose not to live in a society, and take measures to remedy that - hence immigration (the route via which I got to this country). Others will commit suicide, others still will try to circumvent the restrictions in a way their governments wouldn't necessarily like. There are also people who will just live with it, and adapt to whatever happens to them politically, and on the other hand, those who will try to affect it by working from within the system. That's pretty much what the choices are, and only a couple of them seem productive (on a large scale) to me. >As for age, I say up until the point that a child can start to make >their own living and be on their own. So, early teens sometime. >In this country, prolly around the age of 14. Until that point, >parents have control over their kids lives. That's your perfectly acceptable opinion. But, of course, it's not universal. In this country, you're not allowed to get your own bank account until you're, what? 16? 18? I think it differs in different states. You generally won't get a credit card until you're 18, and you won't be able to vote until you're 18. In Russia, you get a passport (i.e., an identifying document that signifies you're a completely individual human being, separate from your family in the eyes of the law and responsible for your own actions) when you're 16. In India, I think, the marrying age is between 13 and 14, and in many societies in Africa you are a fully responsible member of the family by the age of something like 6 or 7, but independent of them as well. The definition of "responsible adult" differs between societies as well. In Italy (remember that thread?) there is no official "drinking age", and alcoholism isn't nearly as much of a problem. However, there, people often leave with their parents until the parents pass away. >Never said we didn't have it good here. I was just being facetious and >pointing out the extreme. As for censorship, sometimes the best thing >trying to determine limits, and lines is not to pick up the marker for >the purpose of doing so. The notion of limits denotes restrictions, to me. Returning to our specific argument, I don't believe that warning labels are restrictions. They are opinions, albeit opinions that some people heed perhaps too much. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vika [VEE-kah] Zafrin Patron Saint of Caffeine dacilen at bu dot edu aka Coffee Fru "You and your hula dance of culinary delight..." -ceecee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:13:00 GMT From: dacilen@bu.edu (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: greetings from Alberta! I wrote: >>Somehow I find your logic flawed here... are you saying that because some >>people lack restraint we should impose laws that stop everyone from randomly >>puching people in the face. > >No, I am not. To me (and I may not have made this clear in my >previous two posts to this thread), laws are dynamic. Laws *can* be >changed. Laws are what we go by when we decide that something is >right or wrong. Just because a law exists, nobody's forcing you to >believe that it's the Only Truth - in fact, the structure of the U.S. >government specifically encourages people to dispute laws that they >find unjust by giving them plenty of opportunity to do so. Not discounting the above paragraph - I still believe everything I wrote in there - I guess, yes, I am arguing that because some people lack restraint we should *make* laws that stop everyone from randomly punching people in the face. Random violence (or, for that matter, random anything that may physically or emotionally or mentally hurt other people) is never justified, to me. If you do something that has the potential to hurt others, you better have a damn good reason for it. It may be your beliefs, or any number of other factors - but you must be willing to stand up for those beliefs. That's very hard to do with random acts of whateverness. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vika [VEE-kah] Zafrin Patron Saint of Caffeine dacilen at bu dot edu aka Coffee Fru "You and your hula dance of culinary delight..." -ceecee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:06:44 GMT From: wahrend@my-dejanews.com Subject: Re: foreign language lyrics In article <199807132332.TAA28564@cran.cs.brandeis.edu>, Ofer Inbar wrote: > wahrend@my-dejanews.com wrote: > > You know you're doomed when you can sing the french lyrics and haven't a clue > > as to what they mean. (or you make up meanings.. ;-) or look on FDC for > > translations..) > > Doomed :) I actually really love it when a band sings in a foreign > language and inspires me to try to learn the words. I already knew > French before hearing fruvous, so they haven't yet done it to me, but > other musicians have. Ha ha.... I started taking french classes... well, I always wanted to pick up some french, but after listening to fruvous and some celine dion (hey, I didn't have a lot to choose from) decided that when I got some "free" time I would learn it (2 semesters later I can say cool stuff like "I love you" and "I'd like a loaf of bread please"). > I think the first time I can remember it happening is when I picked up > a few Latin words from Enya. Especially the song Cursum Perficio > (perfect course) which, admittedly, doesn't really have all that many > interesting words to learn, but just sounds great! Yeah, enya makes me want to go out and learn gaelic. There is a really cool latin verse at the end of Its a Sin by the Pet Shop Boys. > Right now I'm listening to a CD by Oumou Sangare, singing in her > native Wassoulou from Mali. The CD booklet has full translations into > French and English of all the songs, but doesn't have any of the > original lyrics transliterated. I don't know if I'm ever gonna be > brave enough to tackle that - though I could use it to polish up my > French a little :-) Good luck. "wild" Bill - ----- What the hell did you expect to find? Aphrodite on a barstool by your side? Gin Blossoms [Pieces of the night] - -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:57:11 GMT From: dacilen@bu.edu (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: foreign language lyrics On Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:06:44 GMT, wahrend@my-dejanews.com wrote: >(2 semesters later I can say cool stuff like ... >"I'd like a loaf of bread please"). Ah, but that simple phrase contains so many grammar rules! You're doing very well. :) >Yeah, enya makes me want to go out and learn gaelic. There is a really cool >latin verse at the end of Its a Sin by the Pet Shop Boys. Really??? Huh. Shows you how much I listen to Pet Shop Boys' lyrics, maybe I should start being more careful with those. I've heard the song a couple dozen times by now and haven't noticed it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vika [VEE-kah] Zafrin Patron Saint of Caffeine dacilen at bu dot edu aka Coffee Fru "You and your hula dance of culinary delight..." -ceecee ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jul 1998 14:49:51 GMT From: dot0926@aol.com (Dot0926) Subject: Re: greetings from Alberta! > dacilen@bu.edu (Vika Zafrin) wrote: >>Quick: You see a video in a store with an NC-17 rating on it. What >>things do you immediately assume about it? > >I immediately assume that there may be nudity, or violence, and I >should probably watch the movie first before showing it to my kid >(which I don't have. I'm being completely hypothetical here.) Will I >automatically prohibit my kid from watching it? Don't be silly. I'll >decide whether that happens, thank you. if everyone thought this way, there wouldn't even be an issue here, however, the problem is that most people don't have the understanding to think like that, and will automaticly prohibit their child from watching the film. (aka, indirect censorship). most parents have an inherent desire to protect their children from the outside world ( while this may seem like a positive thing, taken to the extreme it can evolve into something quite dangerous), and any label, whether a movie rating or a sticker on a cd, will automaticly cause the parent to prohibit it to his or her child......anyway, im curious, what about books on tape? would a book such as the women's room on tape recieve an explicit lyrics sticker? or the clockwork orange? or any other book that contains harsh language or sexual situations? just wondering..... damn advil, false no fever alarm, so ill spend my day ranting again...... - -nora ************************************************************************** ******* " there's something exciting about the failure of modern technology to create a real looking fake human." - john linnell nora cohen (dot0926@aol.com) **************** ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V1 #98 *******************************************