From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V1 #97 Reply-To: ammf@smoe.org Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Tuesday, July 14 1998 Volume 01 : Number 097 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Moxie tangent [dacilen@bu.edu (Vika Zafrin)] Re: greetings from Alberta! [Starfox ] Re: greetings from Alberta! [Starfox ] free show at fanieul hall in boston on [] Re: greetings from Alberta! [dacilen@bu.edu (Vika Zafrin)] Re: greetings from Alberta! [dacilen@bu.edu (Vika Zafrin)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:36:46 GMT From: dacilen@bu.edu (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Moxie tangent On Tue, 14 Jul 1998 01:54:45 -0400, Andrew wrote: >As I stated earlier. Although I think in private. Moxie is Yiddish. In >fact you are correct in it's APPROX. meaning. Which is really all you can ask for, with translating Yiddish. :) That language is so beautifully colorful and full of subtle shades of meaning, it's almost impossible (for me) to translate. Gotta love it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vika [VEE-kah] Zafrin Patron Saint of Caffeine dacilen at bu dot edu aka Coffee Fru "You and your hula dance of culinary delight..." -ceecee ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jul 1998 13:02:05 GMT From: Starfox Subject: Re: greetings from Alberta! Vika Zafrin wrote: : Sure, many of them are discriminatory and unjust, but if you feel so : strongly about a law then you have every opportunity to start a : petition, write to your Congresspeople, make noise. Again, I never "Do you think you'll have some power, signing a petition?" (Ooh, ooh, I reworked Moxy into the thread!!) : Above. Do people have to conform to it? No. As I mentioned in : another post, the labels are an (albeit loud-voiced) expression of : opinion by other people. But what makes their opinion any more valid than ours, yours, or Mr. Ed's that it warrants placing a sticker on an album? Hmm? _I_ for one can't go around labeling the music I dislike as "Warning, shitty music" otherwise most country music would have all sorts of warning labels over it. :) : As for your dislike of something being labeled as objectionable, you : do it too - everyone does. If you are a thinking human being (and you Yes, but again, the point is, what I think and label objectionable, I can't go around sticking labels on it saying so. I can influence friends and other people by expressing my distaste, but I don't impose my views upon the work itself. : your reasons, and they have theirs. You will *never* be able to : persuade them of your point of view just by labeling something as : objectionable, just as the government can't persuade any rationally : thinking person of *anything* they haven't given a chance. Quick: You see a video in a store with an NC-17 rating on it. What things do you immediately assume about it? : I can't see how "Parental Advisory - Explicit Lyrics" would ever mean : "This Product Is Crap." Explicit Lyrics means there are words in the see point above. It's the meaning that is associated with that label. And who determines what "polite conversation" is? You said so yourself it means different things to different people. Why should there be a label expressing what some people think is unacceptable? : That was unfair and inappropriate in this discussion. These are cases : MUCH more serious than what we're talking about, and a different issue : altogether. As far as I am concerned, I don't care what religion you : are, your primary responsibility is to your kid. If it's against your : religion that she have an abortion, you will help her take care of the : child - but your child should NEVER be afraid to talk to you for fear : of punishment. EVER. A parent, in a good family, is the Number One : Support Person a kid has. Fear of punishment takes that support away : - but it doesn't take care of the problems that arise. What color is the sky in your world? :) I don't think it was inappropriate. The problem with allowing censorship in any form is that it creates a snowball effect that sooner or later starts to go into the extremes. What do you do with the parent that doesn't fufill your beautifully crafted ideal family? Starfox "Sheesh, I haven't even taken a shower yet..." - -- Starfox starfox (at) nationwide dot net "We each pay a fabulous price, for our visions of paradise." - Rush "Mission" ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jul 1998 12:44:41 GMT From: Starfox Subject: Re: greetings from Alberta! Vika Zafrin wrote: :>I wish we could make everyone see that it is the parent that is :>responsible for the child until a certain age. Government should not :>dictate what is good, ethical, or moral. That's society's job. : Two short things: one, I don't understand why government and society : are two different things for you; and two, which age? government (n): 1. to exercise of authority over a state, organization, etc.; control; rule. 2. a system of ruling, political administration, etc. 3. those who direct the affairs of a state, etc. administration. society (n): 1. a group of persons forming a single community. 2. the system of living together in such a group. 3. all people, collectively 4. companionship 5. an organized group with some interest in common. a society is much more dependent upon geographical location, regional factors and groups of interacting people. That's why you can't legislate stuff like "decency" because it changes from area to area and society to society. Government exists to provide for the needs of a society to interact with other societies in the area of forgein affairs, manage the economy, provide for the general defense, and to legislate. The problem with countries is that you have many little societies banding (or in some cases, thrown) together to form a larger super-state society. Government has nothing to do with that other than to make laws, protect the people, administer the laws, and a whole bunch of other stuff that John Locke and Montasique(sp?) wrote about almost 400 years ago. As for age, I say up until the point that a child can start to make their own living and be on their own. So, early teens sometime. In this country, prolly around the age of 14. Until that point, parents have control over their kids lives. :>"Welcome America, please don you government approved blinders, headphones, :>and muzzle. NEXT!" : *shakes head* You guys truly don't know how good you have it here. Never said we didn't have it good here. I was just being facetious and pointing out the extreme. As for censorship, sometimes the best thing trying to determine limits, and lines is not to pick up the marker for the purpose of doing so. Starfox "Way to early in the morning to be spouting this stuff..." - -- Starfox starfox (at) nationwide dot net "We each pay a fabulous price, for our visions of paradise." - Rush "Mission" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:10:29 GMT From: Subject: free show at fanieul hall in boston on 7/31 at 5:30....I saw an ad for them yesterday. They will be playing downstairs from the Sam Goody. Peace Bo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:32:18 GMT From: dacilen@bu.edu (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: greetings from Alberta! Oops... >> _I_ for one can't >>go around labeling the music I dislike as "Warning, shitty music" >>otherwise most country music would have all sorts of warning labels >>over it. :) > >Yes, you can. At least, in your community. You can start a... >petition, movement, whatever, get support (because in order for these Continuation of thought: (because in order for these things to work you will need to have a significant portion of the population agreeing with you) and go to your local government. Or even just go to the local record stores. But it can be done. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vika [VEE-kah] Zafrin Patron Saint of Caffeine dacilen at bu dot edu aka Coffee Fru "You and your hula dance of culinary delight..." -ceecee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:29:12 GMT From: dacilen@bu.edu (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: greetings from Alberta! On 14 Jul 1998 13:02:05 GMT, Starfox wrote: >"Do you think you'll have some power, signing a petition?" :) Well, do you? >But what makes their opinion any more valid than ours, yours, or Mr. Ed's >that it warrants placing a sticker on an album? Hmm? They have a louder voice than you do. Plus, the Congress represents the (voting) population of this country, which is predominantly conservative. We are in the minority here, Andy. This is what gives them the right to say to the world that they don't like to hear the F word on this record. > _I_ for one can't >go around labeling the music I dislike as "Warning, shitty music" >otherwise most country music would have all sorts of warning labels >over it. :) Yes, you can. At least, in your community. You can start a... petition, movement, whatever, get support (because in order for these Again: Explicit Lyrics does NOT equal Shitty Music. And if it does to someone, then they either have their reasons (which I can respect) or just aren't thinking (which I can't respect and thus am not hugely concerned about what they think, except maybe to the extent of trying to teach them to think for themselves). >I can influence >friends and other people by expressing my distaste, but I don't >impose my views upon the work itself. Well, this is one of the very few ways politicians can effectively express their views to their constituencies at large. And as for imposition of views by a _label_, it will only happen for you if you allow it to. >Quick: You see a video in a store with an NC-17 rating on it. What >things do you immediately assume about it? I immediately assume that there may be nudity, or violence, and I should probably watch the movie first before showing it to my kid (which I don't have. I'm being completely hypothetical here.) Will I automatically prohibit my kid from watching it? Don't be silly. I'll decide whether that happens, thank you. >see point above. It's the meaning that is associated with that label. I don't do other people's associations. I consider the social context and then decide for myself which association I am going to ascribe to the label. Yeah, I label the label. For myself. >And who determines what "polite conversation" is? You said so yourself >it means different things to different people. Why should there >be a label expressing what some people think is unacceptable? Because, again, this is a predominantly conservative society, and most of it probably does agree with, and welcomes, the warning labels. But YOU don't have to conform to that. >What color is the sky in your world? :) I don't think it was inappropriate. >The problem with allowing censorship in any form is that it creates a >snowball effect that sooner or later starts to go into the extremes. That doesn't speak to the issue I raised of the gravity of some situations in comparison to others. Bill brought up life-threatening situations, while this isn't. >What do you do with the parent that doesn't fufill your beautifully >crafted ideal family? You educate that parent. You said that yourself. The question is, how do you educate them effectively? If you don't have laws to back you up, they'll probably growl at you not to interfere in how they raise THEIR child. And they'll be right. On the other hand, a law makes one think twice. If you do nothing to oppose the law legally, you will be assumed to accept it, and will be punished if you break it. BUT you are welcome to oppose it, of course. Do you have another suggestion for educating people? And what would you include in the curriculum? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vika [VEE-kah] Zafrin Patron Saint of Caffeine dacilen at bu dot edu aka Coffee Fru "You and your hula dance of culinary delight..." -ceecee ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V1 #97 *******************************************