From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V11 #93 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Tuesday, April 11 2006 Volume 11 : Number 093 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Alloy: OT: Myspace [Peter Adams ] Re: Alloy: OT: Myspace [CJMark@aol.com] Alloy: K.F.'s "America's Most Hated" single [Elaine ] Re: Alloy: OT: Myspace [Elaine ] RE: Alloy: OT: Myspace ["Keith Stansell" ] RE: Alloy: K.F.'s "America's Most Hated" single ["Keith Stansell" ] Re: Alloy: OT: Myspace [Peter Adams ] Re: Alloy: OT: Myspace [CJMark@aol.com] Re: Alloy: OT: Myspace [CJMark@aol.com] Re: Alloy: Re: alloy-digest V11 #87 [CJMark@aol.com] Alloy: OT: Bospop Festival, Holland [Elaine ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:23:36 +0100 From: Peter Adams Subject: Re: Alloy: OT: Myspace On Monday 10 April 2006 00:25, Elaine wrote: > Aside from the good & bad qualities of it, what I find amusing is that > MySpace is owned by the almost-universally hated Rupert Murdoch. :) I actually thought it might improve from that point but i honestly don't think Murdoch knows quite what to do with it. He should do something, if nothing else the layout looks quite abysmal. You'd think it had no-one else working on it apart from "Tom". Which may actually be true. - -- Peter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:26:11 EDT From: CJMark@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: OT: Myspace Hey Elaine.. Not sure if you saw it.. but last night there was an expose' of myspace and underage users. Obviously.. it was somewhat uncomfortable for moms to see their 11 year old kids on myspace giving out personal info. Meanwhile.. what's your plan for Wednesday? I may drive down early to Irvine to check in with a client I have there.. then come back up to Anaheim to see the show. So I'll plan on being at HOB about 5pm. Mark In a message dated 4/9/06 4:39:44 PM, elaine@qnet.com writes: > > Aside from the good & bad qualities of it, what I find amusing is that > MySpace is owned by the almost-universally hated Rupert Murdoch. :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:37:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Elaine Subject: Alloy: K.F.'s "America's Most Hated" single It was "released" this morning. http://myspace.com/kevinfederlineforreal It's a completely rewritten piece, and he says it's the album version. Like TMDR said: success! "I can say whateveh I want.." hehe not quite WHATEVER. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:48:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Elaine Subject: Re: Alloy: OT: Myspace Yep. I bet it's uncomfortable for moms who unconsciously considered libraries a substitute for parenting.. :) Whether your children are unsupervised at the library or at home, they're still unsupervised. I'm planning to hit Anaheim sometime between 4 & 5 p.m. It will be fun. Monya is going to join us! On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 CJMark@aol.com wrote: > Hey Elaine.. > > Not sure if you saw it.. but last night there was an expose' of myspace and > underage users. Obviously.. it was somewhat uncomfortable for moms to see > their 11 year old kids on myspace giving out personal info. > > Meanwhile.. what's your plan for Wednesday? I may drive down early to > Irvine to check in with a client I have there.. then come back up to Anaheim > to > see the show. So I'll plan on being at HOB about 5pm. > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:06:48 -0600 From: "Keith Stansell" Subject: RE: Alloy: OT: Myspace My mom is a small town librarian and she HATES it when school lets out for the summer. The kids come in and jump on the internet terminals and she pretty much has to baby-sit like you said. I wish I could join you all in Anaheim again. Sounds like it will be a blast. Be sure to give us a play by play of the show. - -Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-alloy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-alloy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Elaine Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 9:48 AM To: alloy@smoe.org Subject: Re: Alloy: OT: Myspace Yep. I bet it's uncomfortable for moms who unconsciously considered libraries a substitute for parenting.. :) Whether your children are unsupervised at the library or at home, they're still unsupervised. I'm planning to hit Anaheim sometime between 4 & 5 p.m. It will be fun. Monya is going to join us! On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 CJMark@aol.com wrote: > Hey Elaine.. > > Not sure if you saw it.. but last night there was an expose' of myspace and > underage users. Obviously.. it was somewhat uncomfortable for moms to see > their 11 year old kids on myspace giving out personal info. > > Meanwhile.. what's your plan for Wednesday? I may drive down early to > Irvine to check in with a client I have there.. then come back up to Anaheim > to > see the show. So I'll plan on being at HOB about 5pm. > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:07:44 -0600 From: "Keith Stansell" Subject: RE: Alloy: K.F.'s "America's Most Hated" single Well - as much as I think he is an idiot, I guess you have to give him credit for pulling the song and correcting the problem. Also - I give him credit for not calling Dolby a "hata" on his web site (at least from what I could read through the KF's all over the page). None of his fans seemed to know why the song was pulled if you read their comments, so there didn't seem to be any bad-talking going on against Dolby. Yeah. Too bad the song still exists, but at least no longer will be associated with Dolby. - -Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-alloy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-alloy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Elaine Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 9:37 AM To: alloy@smoe.org Subject: Alloy: K.F.'s "America's Most Hated" single It was "released" this morning. http://myspace.com/kevinfederlineforreal It's a completely rewritten piece, and he says it's the album version. Like TMDR said: success! "I can say whateveh I want.." hehe not quite WHATEVER. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:46:41 -0400 From: Crackers Subject: Re: Alloy: OT: Myspace Elaine wrote: > Yep. I bet it's uncomfortable for moms who unconsciously considered > libraries a substitute for parenting.. :) Whether your children are > unsupervised at the library or at home, they're still unsupervised. > > I'm planning to hit Anaheim sometime between 4 & 5 p.m. It will be fun. > Monya is going to join us! > I was recently a guest at a convention in the US and at one of my panels I was asked "You put your comic up on the internet for anyone to read do you not feel you should be responsible for any children who stumble upon your comic and are damaged by the extreme content of it?" My answer was no, I do not. There are enough "keywords" contained on my site that any half-decent net-nanny type of blocking software should easily be able to block my site. As a parent of two children I only feel a responsibility towards my two children. It is not the job of the government, or the community to raise my children nor is it their responsibility to control what information they have access to. As a parent this responsibility is mine and mine alone (well... and their mother's too). Letting your minor children roam free on the internet is as irresponsible as taking them downtown and dropping them off on a street corner and telling them you'll be back to pick them up in a few hours. As a parent it's your obligation and responsibility to act as a filter for what information gets to your children. It's your responsibility to monitor their online activities. It's your responsibility to monitor the television they watch, the music they listen to, and the movies they watch. It's not the job of content providers to do that for you. The internet is NOT a babysitter. Sadly, the problem is, too many parents simply don't want to take on the job of raising their own children and would rather have the government do it for them. The strongest rallying cry in the world is "won't someone think of the children". It gets an instant instictual, emotional reaction. As a parent I can tell you I'd sell each and every one of you out in a second if I thought that it would really protect my children from harm. But the thing is, the most important part of that rallying cry is "won't someone THINK of the children" and thinking is not a knee-jerk emotional reaction. Your obligation to protect your children doesn't end when they turn 18. There is more your children need to be protected from than the monster in the bushes, the teacher or priest who takes inappropriate liberties, or the uncle who might molest them. Your children need to be protected from the society you're building for them to live in when they are adults. You're actually harming your children if under the guise of protecting them you build a society they will live in as adults that denies them freedom and liberty and censors their speech and thought. People need to understand that every link they forge with legislation will become a chain that binds their children's future. I got a pretty good round of applause for that little rant which gave me hope. As for minors on MySpace. Once again this is a case of parents not taking an active involvement in their children's online activities. What really burns my ass though are the number of children being arrested and charged with child abuse (yes, appearently you can "abuse" yourself, and not just in that way you they used to tell you would make you go blind either) and child pornography for taking risque photographs of themselves and posting them on the internet. Child pornography laws were created to prevent children from being exploited and abused by adults. They were created to punish adults who create child pornography. They were NOT created to punish children who make stupid, stupid decisions. That's what kids do, they make stupid mistakes all the time. It's not their fault. They're young, they lack knowledge, they lack experience, and they really don't understand the consequences of their actions all the time, particularily negative consequences. Punishing these children by charging them with child abuse and pornography charges and then hanging the albatross of "sex offender" around their neck (and don't even get me started on some of the more asinine aspects of the sex offender registry) is going to do them far more harm than these pictures of themselves they took and foolishly posted online. Appearently the most recent of these cases involves three teenage girls on MySpace. If you're going to punish anyone in these cases, why not give a good boot to the ass of these kid's parents for being so freaking clueless about what's going on in their kid's life. There's a disturbing culture of punishment that thrives here in North America... and not the fun kind of punishment that involves frilly french maid uniforms and the month of April either. Wow, was that a rant or what, eh? Crackers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:02:53 +0100 From: Peter Adams Subject: Re: Alloy: OT: Myspace On Monday 10 April 2006 17:46, Crackers wrote: > Wow, was that a rant or what, eh? Yes it was, but a worth one I feel. :applause: - -- Peter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:27:52 EDT From: CJMark@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: OT: Myspace Great! I'll plan on being there by 5:00 if at all possible. And an update.. Do you know if anyone needs a ticket? It looks like the friend I was going to bring along cannot make it Wednesday.. so I'm looking for a stand in.. If there's an Alloyite that wants to buy my extra ticket I'd gladly sell it to one of us! Mark In a message dated 4/10/06 9:40:30 AM, elaine@qnet.com writes: > > Yep. I bet it's uncomfortable for moms who unconsciously considered > libraries a substitute for parenting.. :) Whether your children are > unsupervised at the library or at home, they're still unsupervised. > > I'm planning to hit Anaheim sometime between 4 & 5 p.m. It will be fun. > Monya is going to join us! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:30:55 EDT From: CJMark@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: OT: Myspace Crackers.. Couldn't have said it better myself!! Mark In a message dated 4/10/06 9:49:24 AM, bcracknell@sympatico.ca writes: > I was recently a guest at a convention in the US and at one of my panels > I was asked "You put your comic up on the internet for anyone to read do > you not feel you should be responsible for any children who stumble upon > your comic and are damaged by the extreme content of it?" > > My answer was no, I do not. There are enough "keywords" contained on my > site that any half-decent net-nanny type of blocking software should > easily be able to block my site. As a parent of two children I only feel > a responsibility towards my two children. It is not the job of the > government, or the community to raise my children nor is it their > responsibility to control what information they have access to. As a > parent this responsibility is mine and mine alone (well... and their > mother's too). Letting your minor children roam free on the internet is > as irresponsible as taking them downtown and dropping them off on a > street corner and telling them you'll be back to pick them up in a few > hours. As a parent it's your obligation and responsibility to act as a > filter for what information gets to your children. It's your > responsibility to monitor their online activities. It's your > responsibility to monitor the television they watch, the music they > listen to, and the movies they watch. It's not the job of content > providers to do that for you. The internet is NOT a babysitter. > > Sadly, the problem is, too many parents simply don't want to take on the > job of raising their own children and would rather have the government > do it for them. > > The strongest rallying cry in the world is "won't someone think of the > children". It gets an instant instictual, emotional reaction. As a > parent I can tell you I'd sell each and every one of you out in a second > if I thought that it would really protect my children from harm. But the > thing is, the most important part of that rallying cry is "won't someone > THINK of the children" and thinking is not a knee-jerk emotional > reaction. Your obligation to protect your children doesn't end when they > turn 18. There is more your children need to be protected from than the > monster in the bushes, the teacher or priest who takes inappropriate > liberties, or the uncle who might molest them. Your children need to be > protected from the society you're building for them to live in when they > are adults. You're actually harming your children if under the guise of > protecting them you build a society they will live in as adults that > denies them freedom and liberty and censors their speech and thought. > People need to understand that every link they forge with legislation > will become a chain that binds their children's future. > > I got a pretty good round of applause for that little rant which gave me > hope. > > As for minors on MySpace. > > Once again this is a case of parents not taking an active involvement in > their children's online activities. > > What really burns my ass though are the number of children being > arrested and charged with child abuse (yes, appearently you can "abuse" > yourself, and not just in that way you they used to tell you would make > you go blind either) and child pornography for taking risque photographs > of themselves and posting them on the internet. Child pornography laws > were created to prevent children from being exploited and abused by > adults. They were created to punish adults who create child pornography. > They were NOT created to punish children who make stupid, stupid > decisions. That's what kids do, they make stupid mistakes all the time. > It's not their fault. They're young, they lack knowledge, they lack > experience, and they really don't understand the consequences of their > actions all the time, particularily negative consequences. Punishing > these children by charging them with child abuse and pornography charges > and then hanging the albatross of "sex offender" around their neck (and > don't even get me started on some of the more asinine aspects of the sex > offender registry) is going to do them far more harm than these pictures > of themselves they took and foolishly posted online. Appearently the > most recent of these cases involves three teenage girls on MySpace. > > If you're going to punish anyone in these cases, why not give a good > boot to the ass of these kid's parents for being so freaking clueless > about what's going on in their kid's life. > > There's a disturbing culture of punishment that thrives here in North > America... and not the fun kind of punishment that involves frilly > french maid uniforms and the month of April either. > > Wow, was that a rant or what, eh? > > Crackers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 20:19:49 EDT From: CJMark@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: Re: alloy-digest V11 #87 Hey Warren.. There are a few of us at the Anaheim show.. and we'll be having dinner there before the show. I'll be at the Hollywood and Canyon Club shows too. Let me know if you want to meet up with us. Mark In a message dated 4/4/06 11:47:39 PM, Wargun2438@aol.com writes: > > One week to go for the rest of the West Coast dates! Have I missed any > lists > of people going? > I will be there for the: > > 4.12.06 House of Blues - Anaheim, CA > 4.13.06 Key Club - Los Angeles, CA > 4.14.06 Canyon Club, Agoura Hills CA > 4.20.06 The Aladdin, Portland, OR > 4.22.06 Fenix Underground, Seattle WA > > Who else if going? And any words on Dinner/Seating arrangements? > There's > the Anaheim show (outdoors should be even warmer this time). And I think > the > Canyon Club is doing a dinner seating arrangement for those wishing to dine > and rock (sorry). > Anybody up for another group show of force? We may even get to sit up > front! (Keep the banners small, people). > Thursday is my birthday and I'm taking no prisoners! At least as much > as > 45 years and no booze will allow.... > And a heartfelt WELCOME to Colin Hay!!! > I'm really looking forward to seeing him as well! > -Warren ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 20:20:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Elaine Subject: Alloy: OT: Bospop Festival, Holland We just got word that my husband's sister's band (Stream of Passion) has been signed to play the Bospop Festival in Weert, Holland in early July. It's very exciting. :) We're thinking about going into hock to make the trip, but it's by no means set. http://www.bospop.nl/ Lots of other great bands to appear...including Joe Jackson. Small world, as I'll have just seen him in Hollyweird. (I hope.) Also appearing will be (the reunited?) Roxy Music, Sting, Alan Parsons, Tragically Hip, Simple Minds, others. I just thought I'd share the news! ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V11 #93 ***************************