From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V9 #33 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Thursday, March 11 2004 Volume 09 : Number 033 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Alloy: copyright issue [Robin Thurlow ] Re: Alloy: copyright issue [Russell Milliner ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:38:52 -0800 (PST) From: Robin Thurlow Subject: Alloy: copyright issue I've just been writing to Thomas regarding a copyright issue one of our Alloy members mentioned to me. Thomas has asked that I might make his disapproval of this practice known here at Alloy. The Alloy member who asked me about the issue had mentioned a person who is running a business making and selling pirate copies of out-of-print videos converted into DVDs. The issue is one that has come up in the past, but there are so many twists and turns that people keep bringing up, my mind is now very muddled in the ways of legal situations where professional artists are concerned. I needed Thomas' clarity & experience, which he very kindly contributed. Thomas restates the fact that it is of course illegal for anyone to be making and selling DVDs from copyrighted material in the first place, and also, anyone buying such materials is handling stolen goods. Thomas also makes the point that the material is out-of-print, but could go into a reprint, if the demand were high enough. If this demand is already being met by pirates dealing in stolen material and as a result the fans are not asking the publishers for it, then there is little hope of official reissue, and any resulting publicity and revenue for the artist will be unrealized. In this way piracy of out-of-print works does in fact harm the artist. It seems to me that if we want certain materials, the best thing we can do for the artist is to not go through a pirate, but instead to contact the publishers of the original works and make it known that there is an audience eager to see this materal re-released. I'm glad the issue came up, because I had always been unclear about the status of certain out-of-print materal and the effect that marketing these materials might have on the artist. We traditionally buy out-of-print books, tapes, music, and so on through used book dealers, and the artists does not see the revenue from these individual sales of original prints of the work. But outright piracy - making multiple copies of the material and selling them on the mass-market - is an entirely different monster. It is of course discouraged and certainly shouldn't be participated in. We should instead go straight to the publishers and nag them without mercy to re-release Thomas' materials. Good for them, good for Thomas and good for us. xx ~robin Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:56:25 -0500 From: Russell Milliner Subject: Re: Alloy: copyright issue I also received the message from the Alloy member asking my opinion. This is one of those issues that tears me up. I respect the rights of artists and wish to support ones I choose to listen to like Thomas. The resale of used articles on the Internet does not produce any income for the artist, but obviously it was purchased at one time which they were compensated for. Many companies have tried to even pass laws against this type of transaction. Computer software is one of the industries which has done this to an extent with their threatening licencing agreements. Some books these days even come with licensing agreements which in theory prevent you from being able to resell or give away a book. But this is not exactly the topic at hand. The music and movie industries sit on tons of material that will never get rereleased because the audience is too small to make a significant profit. It is more work than it is worth to release to them. Even in today's digital age it is difficult to find many smaller artists on the music download services. In my opinion they still have growing up to do. There are many markets that are yet untapped. The guy selling bootleg conversions of Thomas laserdiscs to DVDs is not going to make a fortune selling the occasional few on eBay. If he was really in it for the money he would go for bootlegs of Britney Spears or various rap groups. Maybe the industry should try to find a way to enable these "pirates" a way to make their product more legitamate. Like having a webbased registration process where they could then send micropayments for their sales back up to the owning company. This would allow practically anyone to distribute a product like this and still the artists and more so the company would make their money. The consumer would help determine with greater ease what products to buy based on content and quality. This idea is definitely not without its potential problems. Many music contracts are written in a way that would complicate this. It is frustrating to think that a company would sue their own consumers who love their product with extreme devotion! The music and movie industries need to learn to change faster rather than wasting so much time and money. With the amount of time and money that has been wasted on fighting piracy, the industry could be finding mutually beneficial ways to take advantage of the love of art. Thanks for your time, - -Russ http://www.tmdrfan.com/ Robin Thurlow wrote: >I've just been writing to Thomas regarding a copyright issue one of our Alloy members mentioned to me. > >Thomas has asked that I might make his disapproval of this practice known here at Alloy. The Alloy member who asked me about the issue had mentioned a person who is running a business making and selling pirate copies of out-of-print videos converted into DVDs. > >The issue is one that has come up in the past, but there are so many twists and turns that people keep bringing up, my mind is now very muddled in the ways of legal situations where professional artists are concerned. I needed Thomas' clarity & experience, which he very kindly contributed. > >Thomas restates the fact that it is of course illegal for anyone to be making and selling DVDs from copyrighted material in the first place, and also, anyone buying such materials is handling stolen goods. Thomas also makes the point that the material is out-of-print, but could go into a reprint, if the demand were high enough. If this demand is already being met by pirates dealing in stolen material and as a result the fans are not asking the publishers for it, then there is little hope of official reissue, and any resulting publicity and revenue for the artist will be unrealized. In this way piracy of out-of-print works does in fact harm the artist. > >It seems to me that if we want certain materials, the best thing we can do for the artist is to not go through a pirate, but instead to contact the publishers of the original works and make it known that there is an audience eager to see this materal re-released. > >I'm glad the issue came up, because I had always been unclear about the status of certain out-of-print materal and the effect that marketing these materials might have on the artist. We traditionally buy out-of-print books, tapes, music, and so on through used book dealers, and the artists does not see the revenue from these individual sales of original prints of the work. But outright piracy - making multiple copies of the material and selling them on the mass-market - is an entirely different monster. It is of course discouraged and certainly shouldn't be participated in. We should instead go straight to the publishers and nag them without mercy to re-release Thomas' materials. Good for them, good for Thomas and good for us. > >xx >~robin >Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of milliner.vcf] ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V9 #33 **************************