From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V7 #223 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Wednesday, October 30 2002 Volume 07 : Number 223 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Alloy: SOFT CELL [PRAEst76 ] Alloy: press ["Paulo" ] Alloy: basskittens ["Paulo" ] Alloy: JSD ["Paulo" ] RE: Alloy: She Blinded Me With Giants? ["JAMac" ] RE: Alloy: ROCK x POP ["JAMac" ] RE: Alloy: ROCK x POP ["JAMac" ] RE: Alloy: SOFT CELL ["JAMac" ] Alloy: rock vs pop music reply [bluemeitz@cs.com] Re: Alloy: SOFT CELL [PRAEst76 ] Re: Alloy: SOFT CELL [Jon Drukman ] Re: Alloy: rock vs pop music reply [Jon Drukman ] Alloy: Dolby Sighting Tonight [Robyn Moore ] Re: Alloy: Dolby Sighting Tonight ["Keith Stansell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:17:39 +0000 From: PRAEst76 Subject: Re: Alloy: SOFT CELL Paulo sed: > I don't know if you like Soft Cell. They were linked with Thomas only > because they both were part of the techno-pop scene. They also had their she > blinded me with science only one hit: Tainted Love (just one year before > Thomas blinded us all). I'm not much of a fan. Marc Almond gets on my nerves, and when I hear them I always remember the old 'Not The Nine O'Clock News' sketch about Marc Almond. I do believe they hada few hits. I thought Bedsitter did quite well. and for some reason I tend to remember 'Say Hello, Wave Goodbye' over Tainted Love. > As you may know the duo has made a come back after 17 years apart. I bought > their new album CRUELTY WITHOUT BEAUTY... very interesting, very modern > sounding but with plain soft cell trademark sound. The songs are all > electronic (as they were in the past), very depressive and dark and not as > near as melodic as the last Pet Shop Boys album RELEASE. > The interesting thing is that all the reviews I read are celebrating the duo > as the forerunners of modern techno, They say that about all these bands. And they say that about Kraftwerk. the only band I think actually live up to it. Save maybe Cabaret Voltaire. > and all this fuzz around them gave > them much credibility to the newer generations. I haven't seen it. Most of these 80s bands who try to make a comeback are seen as a joke by the media. Many of them tend to end up loathing the modern music scene. > Here in Brazil they were > subject of an entire newspaper page with word like avant-garde, futurism, > techno visionaries, etc.... In fact, I think they deserve it. If we listen > to their electronic disco track from 1981 (Memorabilia) realeased 21 years > ago, we may think that it was recorded yesterday... > Now Thomas should follow the example of his fellow contemporary musicians > and MAKE A COME-BACK TOO!!!! I'm not sure Soft Cell have made a proper comeback. Many of these 80s bands are part of an almost laughable 80s music museum. Compaired with the likes of Depeche Mode who made it out of the 80s Soft Cell and that ilk tend to look rather silly. No matter how good their new stuff is guaranteed when they play a gig most of the folks will just want to hear Tainted Love. Same if Thomas joined that scene. I fear he'd just get frustrated. Better to remain an indie artist I think. Release his own stuff without ceremony and get the respect of the true fans rather than those out to see a freak show. - -- PRAEst76 http://www.cancellation.freeserve.co.uk/praest76/ np: Delerium - Inside the Chamber ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:00:32 -0200 From: "Paulo" Subject: Alloy: press Jon Drukman wrote > nah, critics don't have nearly the impact you think. it's all down to > marketing, or lack thereof. the problem is thomas was marketed as a > novelty act basically, with SBMWS being "weird" and "out > there." "hyperactive" did ok business because it was sort of in the same > vein, but do you think the general public was prepared to accept "the flat > earth" or "screen kiss" from this man? it's too bad, but when have real > originals ever had an easy time of it? Hi Jon I agree... unfortunately the public isn't prepared to accept this kind of subtle complex music. But other artists in the same vein made it and became respected cult artists: PETER GABRIEL has 2 albums which are even more difficult than Thomas's (which doesn't mean they are better): his 1980 3rd and 1982 4th. KATE BUSH has also two difficult albums from around the same time: 1983 THE DREAMING and 1985 HOUNDS OF LOVE. Both artists have conquered a lot of credibility... Basically Thomas music was the same as Peter's and Kate's: keyboard based sophisticated pop. So he should have had the same credibility since his albums are also state of art. If he didn't, it is someone's fault (not his of course - he just kept getting better and better). I think the music press has a significant impact to turn people on something or not. It means exposure. Propaganda is the word used here in Brazil, I think it exists in english too. Of course, media or radio exposure are crucial. But I remember that what had turn me on to Thomas Dolby was a terrific review on The Flat Earth album back in 1984. Up until then I just had heard Science and Submarines on the radio, but those 2 didn't make me want to know more about the artist behind them. But that Flat Earth review was so uplifting... calling our attention to the new generation of english musicians who were able to write such melodic stuff and mix everything with a futuristic sound made out of electronic and acoustic instruments. The review ended saying that the album reminded a bit of King Crimson and Soft Machine. As a fan of King Crimson, that alone made me buy the record (although as soon as I bought it I aknowledge there was nothing on it concerning those 2 progressive bands). But I just loved that album... it was so adult and mature. It prompted me to know more about this new guy called Thomas Dolby. Further on I discovered he was the man behind Science and Submarines. I presented the record to 3 more friends at the time, and by my influence they bought it too. So you see, it is a chain of events that if they happened in large proportions, it can help the artist. When Aliens came out here, the critics slashed the album to death. I still keep an unfair review. It ended saying that Thomas Dolby was now (1987) a sub-Prince. They raved about the Prince influence on some songs. That review came out in a big newspaper. I believe that people are very influenced by what they read. And I think the most of them don't question what they read... they just believe straight in what is written without opening a little window for questioning it. They read that atrocious review and then thought: Why bother to buy this crap?? It probably influenced negatively a lot of people. Well I don't know... it is difficult to tamper with the natural order of past events... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:06:54 -0200 From: "Paulo" Subject: Alloy: basskittens I will of course. Thanks. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Drukman" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 2:20 AM Subject: Re: Alloy: SOFT CELL > btw if you love synthpop as much as i do, check out my > band. www.basskittens.com > > -jsd- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:39:26 -0200 From: "Paulo" Subject: Alloy: JSD Jon: I was reading the biograpphy page... Why record under different names (Ultraviolet Catasthophe and then Random) ? Let me be clear: It wasn't different bands... you were not changing from one group to another... It was just you behind all those projects, isn't it? Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it better to establish your name, instead of changing it from one project to the other. I am not critisizing... just asking the reasons because it is not the first time I see this practice... specially on the dance field. I will listen to the music now. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:21:12 -0800 From: "JAMac" Subject: RE: Alloy: She Blinded Me With Giants? Robin wrote... >Having heard him voice his annoyance for years that of all his >achievements in music, SBMWS is what everyone remembers >(feeling it kept the general public from taking his other, >personal work more seriously), my first thought is that maybe >he is trying to kill the damn thing while making as much profit >off it as possible. Just a theory! Make it part of general >culture, and get on with the new stuff. I'm amazed how often I hear the song. Last night in Blockbuster, during some ad on their TVs, they played the last few measures of SBMWS. I don't remember at all what they were advertising, I just remember the smile I got from hearing the snippet. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:41:19 -0800 From: "JAMac" Subject: RE: Alloy: ROCK x POP PRAEst76 wrote... >I'm not a big fan of Oasis and don't know much about them, but I never >saw any Talent. the guy had one of the most annoying voices I've ever >heard. I don't know much about them but I do really like their music. I havn't followed them or anything but whenever they release an album I always try to get a copy. And I love his voice, their sound. There's a lot of artists like them in the world. People who do something I like but just don't have the time to get involved with. In a way, I think that's where Thomas kind of fits; you have to get to know him to really appreciate his music. Most of my friends know I'm a big fan of Thomas but most of them barely remember SBMWS until you play it for them. Yet every time I put on an album like AAMB, they really learn to appreciate his talent. A friend of mine loves Howard Jones the same way I do Thomas, and we've found that both artists are in that same category; Incredibly talented 'pop' artists who don't stand a chance in todays climate. ... I think its the music industry's drive for cash, and no one will ever be able to stop them. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:51:23 -0800 From: "JAMac" Subject: RE: Alloy: ROCK x POP jsd wrote... >it's all down to marketing, or lack thereof. the problem is thomas >was marketed as a novelty act basically, with SBMWS being "weird" >and "out there." "hyperactive" did ok business because it was sort >of in the same vein, but do you think the general public was >prepared to accept "the flat earth" or "screen kiss" from this man? >it's too bad, but when have real originals ever had an easy time of it? I have a poster in my office of Albert Einstein. The Quote at the bottom says "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." I believe he directed it towards Hitler. Its a fact of life I constantly try to struggle with. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:51:24 -0800 From: "JAMac" Subject: RE: Alloy: SOFT CELL PRAEst76 wrote... > I'm not sure Soft Cell have made a proper comeback. Many of these 80s bands are part of an almost laughable 80s music museum. Compaired with the likes of Depeche Mode who made it out of the 80s Soft Cell and that ilk tend to look rather silly. No matter how good their new stuff is guaranteed when they play a gig most of the folks will just want to hear Tainted Love. Same if Thomas joined that scene. I fear he'd just get frustrated. Better to remain an indie artist I think. Release his own stuff without ceremony and get the respect of the true fans rather than those out to see a freak show. > I remember when Modern English tried to make a comeback by releasing a newly-recorded version of "Melt With You" (was that the title?) on a new album and doing interviews, etc. back in the mid 80's. I loved their first album, the second was ok, and I didn't bother with the third because the new version just turned me off so completely, even though I still love the original. Some artists have it, some don't. Somehow they loose it through the years. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:00:07 -0500 From: bluemeitz@cs.com Subject: Alloy: rock vs pop music reply To all, The changing music styles over the past rock era has changed from one format to another, with each format having some kind of time in the spotlight and generating interest with the music buying public. No matter if one grew up with classic rock, punk, disco, dance, tech-pop, grunge, teen-pop, or rap the comparisons and arguments, of who was better, will bound to continue. No fianl conclusion will ever be reached as one persons views will clash with someone elses... I, on the other hand, grew up with the new wave, or techo or euro-pop or whatever term one prefers, music of the early -80's. I really thought that music was going to embrance the synth sounds and further move to this format. (the glam metal scene of the late '80's- early '90's and the grunge scene of the '90's proved this theory wrong.) I grew up being exposed to MTV and loving every minute of those early creative videos and sat for hours being mesmorized by this new technology. It was great stuff. I also absorbed myself with the likes of duran, soft cell, human league, men at work, kajagoogoo, the vapors, culture club, depeche mode, the fixx, flock of seagulls, talk talk, the style council, adam ant and so forth (forgive me if other names arent mentioned the list can get quite lengthly. Even tho I embraced this new format, continue to re-listen to this day, I concluded that the current format will play itself out and other formats or sounds are on the horizon ready to embraced by the younger generation. It is nice to know that there are still fans like me out there that remember growing with the early sounds of MTV and continue to support the newest releases by these 80's artists. I hope there will be more comebacks or continued releases by these established artists. (Cant think of many that are still around with new stuff- Pet shop boys, Berlin, depeche mode, the fixx(soon), duran(working on something with the original bandmembers), just to name a few.. I think Dolby should release something new to please his old fans and maybe win some new ones as well. Heck, if soft cell can release something new (it took 17 years to do so - havent bought it yet but read on amazon that it is good) then dolby and all those other vintage '80's new wave artists can do the same as well. If nothing else it would be a sense of closure of the artists account to close the book on a brief career without leaving fans waiting on "what if" thoughts on their minds. I support the idea of a new release from dolby but if he doesnt want to do it or nothing pans out then just release all the rare stuff on a multi cd compilation and end it that way. (like Abba did. disappointed that no reunion is ever going to happen but pleased with "thank you for the music" 4 cd collection and definitive cd collection along with dvd companion. that pleased me a lot knowing that this is the end all. ) Lastly, I never thought Dolby was rock. He was an example of '80's new wave. I guess this leans more toward pop than rock. But i think his presence on the charts is long overdue and hope he surprises the world with something soon. An early '03 release would be nice to coinside with the 20th anniversary of the commercial top five success of "science" on the billboard single chart. Maybe other past acts could follow as well and have an 80's revival of sort. That would be nice indeed.... Walt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 21:29:00 +0000 From: PRAEst76 Subject: Re: Alloy: SOFT CELL Jon sed: > btw if you love synthpop as much as i do, check out my > band. www.basskittens.com You might want to change the way you feature the sampled tracks by either supply to a more low quality stream type or making them openly available for download. Otherwise you are excluding anyone who doesn't have broadband internet access. - -- PRAEst76 http://www.cancellation.freeserve.co.uk/praest76/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 15:49:27 -0800 From: Jon Drukman Subject: Re: Alloy: SOFT CELL At 01:29 PM 10/29/2002, PRAEst76 wrote: >Jon sed: > > > btw if you love synthpop as much as i do, check out my > > band. www.basskittens.com > >You might want to change the way you feature the sampled tracks by >either supply to a more low quality stream type or making them openly >available for download. Otherwise you are excluding anyone who doesn't >have broadband internet access. thanks for the feedback, but i'm not interested in catering to modem users. the mp3's are in http://rs1.cluttered.com/kittens/ if you want to download them directly. - -jsd- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 15:53:31 -0800 From: Jon Drukman Subject: Re: Alloy: rock vs pop music reply At 01:00 PM 10/29/2002, bluemeitz@cs.com wrote: >I, on the other hand, grew up with the new wave, or techo or euro-pop or >whatever term one prefers, music of the early -80's. I really thought that >music was going to embrance the synth sounds and further move to this >format. (the glam metal scene of the late '80's- early '90's and the >grunge scene of the '90's proved this theory wrong.) I grew up being >exposed to MTV and loving every minute of those early creative videos and >sat for hours being mesmorized by this new technology. It was great stuff. me too! >I also absorbed myself with the likes of duran, soft cell, human league, >men at work, kajagoogoo, the vapors, culture club, depeche mode, the fixx, >flock of seagulls, talk talk, the style council, adam ant and so forth >(forgive me if other names arent mentioned the list can get quite >lengthly. Even tho I embraced this new format, continue to re-listen to >this day, I concluded that the current format will play itself out and >other formats or sounds are on the horizon ready to embraced by the >younger generation. but in a case of "everything old is new again" (aka "there are no original ideas"), there is a large and growing scene of music makers who are explicitly referencing this stuff. bands like adult, ladytron, console, the faint, miss kittin & the hacker, me :) these things really do run in 20 year cycles. now all of us kids who grew up with the first wave of mtv are old enough to run record labels and get stuff out there that reminds us of our glory days. i was 13 when mtv debuted, now i'm 33 and i've got my own label. our next release will be a single with some classic-sounding synthpop and some modern remixes of same. - -jsd- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:37:01 -0800 From: Robyn Moore Subject: Alloy: Dolby Sighting Tonight Hey, all - Found while scanning our satellite listings to see if there's anything worthwhile on the tube this evening - VH1 is showing Rockula tonight (Oct 29) at 8:30pm PST/11:30pm EST. I'm not having any luck finding it on their schedule again, so this may be a one-shot. Or I could just be having trouble negotiating their website. Stranger things have happened. ;) Just as a side note, I recently saw Lene Lovich's video for New Toy on VH1 Classic. It's an interesting piece - Thomas and three other gents who I assume were also backing her up show up a number of times in the video. Sorry I haven't had time to chat lately - life tends to be like that. Hope all is well with everyone. :) Robyn @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.wiccans.net/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:55:10 -0700 From: "Keith Stansell" Subject: Re: Alloy: Dolby Sighting Tonight Ha! I love my TiVo! Just checked the "to do" list on it and sure enough, Rocula is set to record based on having "Thomas Dolby" in my wishlist. Per the TiVo, tonight's showing is the only one scheduled. - -Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robyn Moore" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 5:37 PM Subject: Alloy: Dolby Sighting Tonight > > Hey, all - > > Found while scanning our satellite listings to see if there's anything > worthwhile on the tube this evening - VH1 is showing Rockula tonight (Oct > 29) at 8:30pm PST/11:30pm EST. I'm not having any luck finding it on their > schedule again, so this may be a one-shot. Or I could just be having > trouble negotiating their website. Stranger things have happened. ;) > > Just as a side note, I recently saw Lene Lovich's video for New Toy on VH1 > Classic. It's an interesting piece - Thomas and three other gents who I > assume were also backing her up show up a number of times in the video. > > Sorry I haven't had time to chat lately - life tends to be like that. Hope > all is well with everyone. :) > > Robyn > > > @ Robyn Moore > @ http://www.wiccans.net/robyn.html > @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V7 #223 ***************************