From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V7 #177 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Friday, August 30 2002 Volume 07 : Number 177 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Alloy: Orwell [Robyn Moore ] Re: Alloy: U.S. Congressmen Want to Stop Online Song-Swapping [Elaine Lin] Re: Alloy: U.S. Congressmen Want to Stop Online Song-Swapping [Peter Adam] Re: Alloy: U.S. Congressmen Want to Stop Online Song-Swapping ["Sally All] Re: Alloy: U.S. Congressmen Want to Stop Online Song-Swapping [Peter Adam] Alloy: the zen of napster [William Steffey ] Re: Alloy: the zen of napster [Peter Adams ] Re: Alloy: U.S. Congressmen Want to Stop Online Song-Swapping ["Sally All] Re: Alloy: the zen of napster (beige cars) [Gryphon987@aol.com] Re: Alloy: the zen of napster (beige cars) [Gryphon987@aol.com] Re: Alloy: the zen of napster (beige cars) [Gryphon987@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 10:36:35 -0700 From: Robyn Moore Subject: Re: Alloy: Orwell At 03:41 PM 28/08/2002, you appeared to say: >Max Headroom featured 'Blipverts' which were ads crammed into a fraction of >a second, similar to subliminal advertising, but an actual ad rather than >just a single frame. This caused the brains of some viewers to overheat >after which they spontaneously exploded. You're right - but there was an episode later in the series where television programming from one of the other channels (not 23) was beamed directly into people's heads while they were asleep. That's what I thought Robin might be referring to. Robyn M @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.wiccans.net/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 10:44:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Elaine Linstruth Subject: Re: Alloy: U.S. Congressmen Want to Stop Online Song-Swapping > increase in sales of blank CDs must be responsible for music CDs not > experiencing the same massive increase (music CDs of course experiencing a > slow but steady increase). Here in the states the RIAA hacks are consistently complaining that CD sales are experiencing "alarming" drops over the last however-long (due to online swapping, according to them). Do you think it's different in the two countries, or is someone LYING? Gee I can't figure out why they'd want to lie about such a thing. cheekily yours ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 19:12:20 +0100 From: Peter Adams Subject: Re: Alloy: U.S. Congressmen Want to Stop Online Song-Swapping Elaine Linstruth said... > > increase in sales of blank CDs must be responsible for music CDs not > > experiencing the same massive increase (music CDs of course experiencing > > a slow but steady increase). > > Here in the states the RIAA hacks are consistently complaining that CD > sales are experiencing "alarming" drops over the last however-long (due to > online swapping, according to them). Do you think it's different in the > two countries, or is someone LYING? > > Gee I can't figure out why they'd want to lie about such a thing. Basically I can, like anyone, only speak for myself. Since I've had access to large selections of mp3 I've bought more music than ever. I spent #50 this week buying music. Most of it stuff I wouldn't buy if I hadn't heard the mp3s first. mp3 hurts artists who have no fathful following. Eminem... Britney... etc... MTV whores. If I didn't have access to mp3 I'd go back to the way I was prior... buying about 4-5 albums a year from artists I already know I like. I can, of course, only speak for myself. Eliminating illegal downloads will probably boost music sales... stating that it hurts music sales to beging wiht... but the whole music buisiness if full of whores and run by lawyers and money grubbers to begin with. On Topic: I wish TMDR would do some new stuff and put it online. I'd even pay for access to the site but I'd prefer if it was free... NO, I don't count Forty as new stuff. I don't buy like new albums... it's just a CD etc that's made, basically, to remind me that I'm a sad bastard who lives in the middle of nowhere who never gets to see any artists he likes perform live. Just rub shit in my face please. However if TMDR is EVER in Northern Ireland and fancy's playing here I'll user all my contact (all two or so) to get him an afternoon on a poky stage with a piano in The Empire or The Limelight or something in Belfast. Yes. As long as he plays Budapest By Blimp I'll be happy. - -- Peter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 21:04:09 +0100 From: "Sally Allan" Subject: Re: Alloy: U.S. Congressmen Want to Stop Online Song-Swapping There's a very interesting case made a musician who disagrees with the RIAA at http://www.janisian.com/article-internet_debacle.html I think she makes some good points. Sally ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 21:36:06 +0100 From: Peter Adams Subject: Re: Alloy: U.S. Congressmen Want to Stop Online Song-Swapping Sally Allan said... > There's a very interesting case made a musician who disagrees with the RIAA > at > http://www.janisian.com/article-internet_debacle.html > I think she makes some good points. Wasn't this how the thread started? With the Janis Ian article? - -- Peter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 15:35:00 -0500 From: William Steffey Subject: Alloy: the zen of napster I saw the new Bryan Ferry album (had 13 songs on it) at a regular chain record store for $22.00. No cd-rom content, nothing. Just a stupid album for $22.00. Nature eventually has its way with the market. It's called online trading. You can call it bad, or you can call it good- you don't even have to call it anything. Nobody's going to spend $22 on something they know cost tons less to make when they can get it for free. In the case of the Bryan Ferry mentioned above, I hunted for another store and was able to find it at a paltry $17.00. I bought it and felt like a total schmuck shelling out that kind of cash for 13 tracks. People one ounce lighter in the moral fibre department (or perhaps once ounce heavier in the intelligence) would have downloaded it. One major label prez said "well, they don't see all the acts we have to pay for that don't make it," which essentially implies it's the consumer's responsibility to shoulder bad business decisions. Online sharing is here and will eat up lots of profits until the music industry lowers their price point, which they promised they would do with the advent of the cd about 20 years ago. So when the price of a new cd returns to a sensible $10 or $12 instead of a honkin $22 dollars, the label can still make a large profit, and more consumers will swayed to actually purchase. Nobody ever says "THE PRICES ARE RIDICULOUS!" It's always about "online stealing is wrong." I completely agree that online stealing is wrong. EQUALLY wrong as controlling the market and skyjacking the prices of cds. I'm sure Lao Tzu wouldn't mind if we used one of his quotes in this context. "If you overvalue objects, people will steal." Again, it doesn't matter what I say. Nature is taking her course. William Peter Adams wrote: >Elaine Linstruth said... > >>>increase in sales of blank CDs must be responsible for music CDs not >>>experiencing the same massive increase (music CDs of course experiencing >>>a slow but steady increase). >>> >>Here in the states the RIAA hacks are consistently complaining that CD >>sales are experiencing "alarming" drops over the last however-long (due to >>online swapping, according to them). Do you think it's different in the >>two countries, or is someone LYING? >> >>Gee I can't figure out why they'd want to lie about such a thing. >> > >Basically I can, like anyone, only speak for myself. Since I've had access to >large selections of mp3 I've bought more music than ever. I spent #50 this >week buying music. Most of it stuff I wouldn't buy if I hadn't heard the mp3s >first. > >mp3 hurts artists who have no fathful following. Eminem... Britney... etc... >MTV whores. If I didn't have access to mp3 I'd go back to the way I was >prior... buying about 4-5 albums a year from artists I already know I like. > >I can, of course, only speak for myself. Eliminating illegal downloads will >probably boost music sales... stating that it hurts music sales to beging >wiht... but the whole music buisiness if full of whores and run by lawyers >and money grubbers to begin with. > >On Topic: I wish TMDR would do some new stuff and put it online. I'd even pay >for access to the site but I'd prefer if it was free... NO, I don't count >Forty as new stuff. I don't buy like new albums... it's just a CD etc that's >made, basically, to remind me that I'm a sad bastard who lives in the middle >of nowhere who never gets to see any artists he likes perform live. Just rub >shit in my face please. > >However if TMDR is EVER in Northern Ireland and fancy's playing here I'll user >all my contact (all two or so) to get him an afternoon on a poky stage with a >piano in The Empire or The Limelight or something in Belfast. > >Yes. As long as he plays Budapest By Blimp I'll be happy. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 22:08:50 +0100 From: Peter Adams Subject: Re: Alloy: the zen of napster William Steffey said... > I saw the new Bryan Ferry album (had 13 songs on it) at a regular chain > record store for $22.00. No cd-rom content, nothing. Just a stupid > album for $22.00. That's kinda they ways it's been for 15 years or so. Infact I've never bought an album with CD-ROM content. That's not through choice. that's just through the fact they almost no-one makes albums with CD-ROM content. > Nature eventually has its way with the market. It's > called online trading. You can call it bad, or you can call it good- > you don't even have to call it anything. Nobody's going to spend $22 on > something they know cost tons less to make when they can get it for > free. Which is why the RIAA are up in arms. People expect music, videos, concerts... all for free. They could do this in the Star Trek universe but here it's not yet possible. > In the case of the Bryan Ferry mentioned above, I hunted for > another store and was able to find it at a paltry $17.00. I bought it > and felt like a total schmuck shelling out that kind of cash for 13 > tracks. People one ounce lighter in the moral fibre department (or > perhaps once ounce heavier in the intelligence) would have downloaded it. Uh? What has the track count got to do with it? You even knew this before you bought it? If people pay for a track count it's easy enought to put 99 tracks ona CD. Would that make you happy? > One major label prez said "well, they don't see all the acts we have to > pay for that don't make it," which essentially implies it's the > consumer's responsibility to shoulder bad business decisions. It's called passing the buck. If you can get someone else to shoulder the blame then why take it yourself? That would require responsibility. As would paying for music when you can download it for 'free'. > Online sharing is here and will eat up lots of profits until the music > industry lowers their price point, which they promised they would do > with the advent of the cd about 20 years ago. So when the price of a > new cd returns to a sensible $10 or $12 instead of a honkin $22 dollars, > the label can still make a large profit, and more consumers will swayed > to actually purchase. Won't happen. they'll sepnd a fortune trying to kill music piracy, then add this onto the consumer. the price will go up. And they'll blame piracy. You'll be paying $30 for a CD soon. If there isn't a revolution... or if the revolution underway is ignored or slowed. > Nobody ever says "THE PRICES ARE RIDICULOUS!" It's always about "online > stealing is wrong." I completely agree that online stealing is wrong. > EQUALLY wrong as controlling the market and skyjacking the prices of > cds. I'm sure Lao Tzu wouldn't mind if we used one of his quotes in > this context. > "If you overvalue objects, people will steal." A very true phrase... no-one will steal shit. Which is why the crapper the car the less the chance of having it stolen... remember this people... beige cars never get stolen. - -- Peter np: James Rays Gangwar - Destination Assassination ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:29:42 EDT From: Gryphon987@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: the zen of napster (beige cars) In a message dated 8/29/2002 5:09:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, praest76@cancellation.freeserve.co.uk writes: >A very true phrase... no-one will steal shit. Which is why the crapper the car >the less the chance of having it stolen... remember this people... beige cars >never get stolen After lurking for a few months, I had to respond to this. People will steal anything if it can be used. Has nothing to do with how it looks. My brown 88 Ponitac 6000 (with James Bond-esque buttons labelled things like "Passenger Ejector Seat" fabric painted on to my dashboard, leaks in the roof, Exit signs painted onto the fabric, patched ironed on to the interior, a garden gnome looking out the back window, a broken taillight, hole in the gas tank, faded paint, half a grill, etc -- you get the picture -- I got a junker and I let the kids I babysit decorate it) was stolen. Some meanies broke into the '89 Bronco parked next to me, stole the chainsaw and toy helicopter that were in the backseat, then broke into my car, drove it across town, held up some old people playing BINGO at a senior center, then dropped it off and stole one of the old peoples cars. Apparently stealing social security checks is a lucrative business venture. I was so heartbroken, I went to my favorite open-mic night, sang "I Love You, Goodbye", and dedicated it to my car. *sighs* Laura Beth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 15:04:35 -0700 From: Robyn Moore Subject: Re: Alloy: the zen of napster (beige cars) At 02:29 PM 29/08/2002, you appeared to say: >After lurking for a few months, I had to respond to this. > >People will steal anything if it can be used. Has nothing to do with how it >looks. > My brown 88 Ponitac 6000 (with James Bond-esque buttons labelled things > like >"Passenger Ejector Seat" fabric painted on to my dashboard, leaks in the >roof, Exit signs painted onto the fabric, patched ironed on to the interior, >a garden gnome looking out the back window, a broken taillight, hole in the >gas tank, faded paint, half a grill, etc -- you get the picture -- I got a >junker and I let the kids I babysit decorate it) was stolen. Some meanies >broke into the '89 Bronco parked next to me, stole the chainsaw and toy >helicopter that were in the backseat, then broke into my car, drove it across >town, held up some old people playing BINGO at a senior center, then dropped >it off and stole one of the old peoples cars. Apparently stealing social >security checks is a lucrative business venture. I was so heartbroken, I went >to my favorite open-mic night, sang "I Love You, Goodbye", and dedicated it >to my car. My condolences to you and your late car. We had something vaguely similar happen some years ago - our old Toyota beater got stolen out of one of the parking garages my husband used when he was working downtown. It was found gutted a day or two later. Turns out that the parts in older cars can fetch quite a bit on the open market, and that's why our car was targeted instead of some of the newer, more expensive models in the garage. Robyn M @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.wiccans.net/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:07:04 EDT From: Gryphon987@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: the zen of napster (beige cars) In a message dated 8/29/2002 6:03:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, robyn@wiccans.net writes: > My condolences to you and your late car. We had something vaguely similar > happen some years ago - our old Toyota beater got stolen out of one of the > parking garages my husband used when he was working downtown. It was found > gutted a day or two later. Turns out that the parts in older cars can fetch > quite a bit on the open market, and that's why our car was targeted instead > of some of the newer, more expensive models in the garage. > > Robyn M > All they bothered to take from mine was the tape player that a teacher gave to me as a graduation present and the old radio that was in the trunk. Meanies. Laura Beth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 23:46:41 +0100 From: PRAEst76 Subject: Re: Alloy: the zen of napster (beige cars) Gryphon987@aol.com said... > In a message dated 8/29/2002 5:09:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > praest76@cancellation.freeserve.co.uk writes: > >A very true phrase... no-one will steal shit. Which is why the crapper the > > car > > the less the chance of having it stolen... remember this people... beige > > cars never get stolen > > After lurking for a few months, I had to respond to this. > > People will steal anything if it can be used. And quite a lot that can't. But they'll more likely steal something that looks good. > Has nothing to do with how it looks. If you were out scrumping for cars would you steal the BMW or the old beat up Ford Capri? Very often the prime motivation for someone stealing something is that it looks good and they want it. > My brown 88 Ponitac 6000 (with James Bond-esque buttons labelled things > like "Passenger Ejector Seat" fabric painted on to my dashboard, leaks in Well you'see that's probably why they stole it. Not very bright yer car thief. I met some. I'm suprised they could even read the labels. But they probably thought it a real bond car. I've always thought the spoof ad in Robocop 2 was a good idea. The car that electrocutes thieves. Niiiiiiiiice. > the roof, Exit signs painted onto the fabric, patched ironed on to the > interior, a garden gnome looking out the back window, a broken taillight, > hole in the gas tank, faded paint, half a grill, etc -- you get the picture > -- I got a junker and I let the kids I babysit decorate it) was stolen. > Some meanies broke into the '89 Bronco parked next to me, stole the > chainsaw and toy helicopter that were in the backseat, then broke into my Someone keeps a chainsaw in the back seat of their car? You don't break into that kinda persons car. They come looking ofr you and don't stop. No matter how you try. They keep coming, in their boiler suits and hockey masks. > car, drove it across town, held up some old people playing BINGO at a > senior center, then dropped it off and stole one of the old peoples cars. > Apparently stealing social security checks is a lucrative business venture. Yes, it is. I wonder where they cash them. But the pensioners are glad they get the cheques at all. I used to work with the Royal Mail, who will hire anyone. I think I was an honourable decent individual that would respect peopels mail... but they didn't even check my ID. I was out on the street with the post the next morning. In my time there the amount of crime I saw amongst the staff was astounding. I don't trust anything in the post anymore. There was guys who took anythign that looked like a video. Another guy who pockeded half the voting cards for the town. They got a warning and would see a board about dismissal after a few months. I signed a writ saying that I couldn't discuss anything that happened for a year. Now I'm writing a book. I'll destroy the Royal Mail... they'll rue the day they ever sacked me for wearing makeup. > I was so heartbroken, I went to my favorite open-mic night, sang "I Love > You, Goodbye", and dedicated it to my car. > > *sighs* I've seen worse. I know areas where they don't even steal the cars. Just vanalise them. For fun like. And they'll decapitate your nodding dog. I'd always see at least one burnt out car on my way to work. There is one just down the road. Been there for two days. Some kids stole it, crashed it into a lamppost near the school and torched it. - -- PRAEst76 http://www.cancellation.freeserve.co.uk/praest76/ np: The Glove - Punish Me With Kisses ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 19:47:24 -0500 From: "Bill Krzysko" Subject: RE: Alloy: Orwell Actually, you might be thinking of two different episodes, one where they recorded people's dreams, and played them on a pay-per-view channel, the other episode had another station claiming to have a technology that allowed you to view TV while your slept. This was done to get higher ratings because elections had candidates being sponsored by a TV network, and whichever one got higher ratings in a certain time frame won the election. (Yes, I watched this show way too much.) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-alloy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-alloy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Robyn Moore Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 12:37 PM To: alloy@smoe.org Subject: Re: Alloy: Orwell At 03:41 PM 28/08/2002, you appeared to say: >Max Headroom featured 'Blipverts' which were ads crammed into a >fraction of a second, similar to subliminal advertising, but an actual >ad rather than just a single frame. This caused the brains of some >viewers to overheat after which they spontaneously exploded. You're right - but there was an episode later in the series where television programming from one of the other channels (not 23) was beamed directly into people's heads while they were asleep. That's what I thought Robin might be referring to. Robyn M @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.wiccans.net/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 02:08:03 +0100 From: "Sally Allan" Subject: Re: Alloy: U.S. Congressmen Want to Stop Online Song-Swapping > Wasn't this how the thread started? With the Janis Ian article? I checked back and I couldn't find any post with it in or any response to it - if it has been posted before it's a shame that people don't want to discuss it because I think she has some interesting things to say. It seems that record companies are bugging artists as well as consumers these days - I'd love to see them cut out as much as possible with artists selling their records in a way that benefits them and consumers rather than middlemen. Sally ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 21:37:20 EDT From: Gryphon987@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: the zen of napster (beige cars) In a message dated 8/29/2002 6:46:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, praest76@cancellation.freeserve.co.uk writes: > If you were out scrumping for cars would you steal the BMW or the old beat > up > Ford Capri? > > Very often the prime motivation for someone stealing something is that it > looks good and they want it. > The Capri -- BMW is far too likely to have an excellent alarm system (like the ones that disable the engine) and tracking device. Capri would be less trouble. Capri would be easier to start, too, I'm assuming. It's amazing being from the Detroit area (and being schooled at Univ of Mich Dearborn -- a Univ of Mich school started and funded for a long time by Ford), and I have no relatives who work for them to tell me for sure. I know that is why they took mine as opposed to the Bronco. You could have stuck a popsicle stick into the ignition and it would have probably started right up. Laura Beth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 21:42:04 EDT From: Gryphon987@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: the zen of napster (beige cars) In a message dated 8/29/2002 6:46:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, praest76@cancellation.freeserve.co.uk writes: > I've seen worse. I know areas where they don't even steal the cars. Just > vanalise them. For fun like. And they'll decapitate your nodding dog. I'd > always see at least one burnt out car on my way to work. There is one just > down the road. Been there for two days. Some kids stole it, crashed it into > a > lamppost near the school and torched it. > Yes. I have seen this phenomenon. This is why i live just outside of Detroit. Laura Beth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 21:43:26 EDT From: Gryphon987@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: the zen of napster (beige cars) In a message dated 8/29/2002 6:46:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, praest76@cancellation.freeserve.co.uk writes: > I signed a writ saying that I couldn't discuss anything that happened for a > year. Now I'm writing a book. I'll destroy the Royal Mail... they'll rue > the > day they ever sacked me for wearing makeup. > Where I live you would have sued them already and then wrote your book. Laura Beth ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V7 #177 ***************************