From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V6 #204 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Sunday, August 5 2001 Volume 06 : Number 204 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Alloy: Eventual Meet ["Robin Thurlow" ] Alloy: ancient FES email text unearthed [Brian Clayton ] Alloy: opinions are like . . . here's mine [Tom Trudell Subject: Re: Alloy: Eventual Meet Melissa wrote: > Dudes, > > If an Alloy-fest were organized, I'd be there in a heartbeat. After driving to the > Keys, driving to New Orleans would be a cakewalk! I think it would be a great > location (and I'd finally get to take rolls and rolls of b/w shots of the funky > cemeteries there.) > I'd do my best to be there too!! We're determined to do more travelling, and New Orleans is a place we've always wanted to visit. But it just might take a fun Alloy get-together to finally get me down there! But we have to find places that are willing to accomodate pets. I remember seeing a guide book of hotels/motels around North America which permit dogs (and I bet they'd take ferrets :) Gomez hates being left out! Speaking of trips, we have just gotten a great idea for our next trip to Britain. I've been wanting to go back and take a hiking tour to see some of the great geological features. I've been reading a BBC publication from our library called "On The Rocks" (heeheee) which is about the amazing formations throughout the UK, such as the Giant's Causeway in Antrim. There are so many things to see that are simply incredible. In addition to this interest.. just today at a restaurant we were looking at a poster of different cheeses from around the world. I saw how many great ones seem to come from various parts of Britain... and remembered how wonderful even the non-gourmet cheese was there. So I've thought a great way to travel Britain would be to combine the two interests into what I've dubbed the "Geo-Cheese Tour". We can't do it for another couple of years, but I'm looking into the best ways to get around, & the most spectacular places to visit which feature both geology and cheese. Any suggestions are most welcome! But New Orleans.. it would be fantastic to meet up. What sort of time frame are people thinking of? possibly next summer? We'll have to look into the sort of accomodation that might be available. Will the heat/spicy food and bugsbugsbugsbugsbugs do me in? xxxxx Robin T ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:59:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Clayton Subject: Alloy: ancient FES email text unearthed While digging about in the darkest, dustiest corners of my hard drive, I found a message from the pre-Alloy days... which turned out to be nothing less than the announcement of the original Tommy Awards! Here it is, restored to its original condition by precise binary digit manipulation algorithms. It's so real, you may think it's a new message! But please, don't try to enter the contest, it has already ended. Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 18:07:32 -0500 (EST) From: chairman@tdolby.com Subject: FES - Newsflash!! Sender: owner-flatearth-l@netrex.net X-Organization: The Flat Earth Society Reply-To: OhSoFlat@Aol.Com As an honoured member of The Society, you will be sent the latest information about new developements at the Web Site and be the first to be told of Thomas' new releases, appearances, interviews and lectures. We will also be releasing a perodic newsletter which we hope will arrive in your email box just when you need cheering up. Thank you for joining The Flat Earth Society mailing list. We hope your stay with us will be an enjoyable one. THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY ... ... a hallowed institution - dedicated to the unfailing belief that contrary to the overwhelming evidence presented by the Pop Music Charts and the world's radio playlists, Thomas Dolby's music is alive and well and as poignant, witty and atmospheric today as it was hundreds of years ago in the age of gout and Galileo. Newsflash number 1 =~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~ Dear Members, Greetings from the Chairman's desk at the F.E.S. Supplementary to our monthly Newsletters, we will be sending out occasional Newsflashes, like this one, to keep you abreast of affairs at the FES. THE TOMMY AWARDS - Coinciding with this year's prestigious Grammy Awards, the fabulous Tommy Awards! Your votes are requested in 21 categories stretching from "Best Album" to "Best Vocal Arrangement For A Handmaiden" The Tommy Awards are on-line from now until February 28th at - http://www.tdolby.com/tommys.html Get on-line now and vote! It's easy. You'll find a simple email form - read the questions, fill in your answers, click the VOTE button and you've changed the history of mankind (sort of). There's a chance to win a complete set of Thomas Dolby CD's, personally signed and dedicated to the member whose votes come closest to Thomas' own choices. Three runner up prizes, too. The results will be announced, on-line, in the Tap Room on February 28th at 7pm PST. =^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^=~=^= Thank you for reading this newsletter, and thank you especially, for joining the Flat Earth Society. Your membership is valued . If you have any feedback about this mail or the site in general, please write to us via the Chairman's office, making "feedback" the subject of your mail. - -- Flat Earth Society Mailing List Copyright 1995. Lost Toy People. Web Site Address: http://www.tdolby.com/ Brought to you by Netrex: http://www.netrex.com/ BC - -- "No one can predict with certainty what the ultimate meaning will be of mastery of space." -- John F. Kennedy, May 25th, 1961 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 07:01:43 -0700 From: Tom Trudell Subject: Alloy: opinions are like . . . here's mine I've been to Nawlins, had a good time. More precisely, I survived. Frankly, the "New Orleans Experience" turns out to be watching tourists drink far too much and stumble down one particularly gaudy and bawdy street, a sort of besotted Disneyland, with some really awesome heart-attack food at every turn. It's a nice party as long as you feel comfortable ignoring the intense poverty that surrounds you for 100 square miles. For me, New Orleans started as a quick fizz and ended up feeling pathetic and wrong. But I wish I had those jazz clubs and those bignets in my hometown! And as far as the East/West Coast thing goes, I can speak with some authority. I grew up in San Diego, lived a decade in the Bay Area, and now spend time in Portland and Seattle. I've travelled the East Coast a fair bit, and married someone from Pittsburgh. 1) Using L.A. as a point of West Coast reference is unfair. LA sucks, sucks, and sucks more, it would be a blight upon any coast anywhere. Many people are mindlessly self-absorbed there. In and Out Burger is a cultural pinnacle. Women turn themselves into commodities with collagen and silicone. What you drive is who you wanna be. My apologies to anyone with a soul who lives in L.A. because you must be in hell. 2) The west coast is a place where you realize that you don't really need to wear a tie to go out. It's ok not to iron that shirt. Sandals and Tevas are intelligent options. People are seen as more independent, free-willed beings and as such are to be treasured while they are there. The vagaries of a life lived independent of oppressive social norms will lead them in and out of your life, and that's ok. I don't think it has anything to do with a psychological impermanence created by earthquakes. It's people preferring to live by their own code. 3) The east coast is where people live their lives more in accordance with oppressive social norms and adhere to codes created for them long before they were born. Perhaps your thought about a sense of history applies here . . . personally I think that the horrid humidity builds into the East Coaster an innate desire to suffer. your mileage may vary, - -Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:14:40 EDT From: CJMark@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: opinions are like . . . here's mine Hey Tom.. I laughed aloud at your astute description of the differences between east and west coast folk. I have also experienced both coasts.. plus an extra.. I grew up in Seattle.. moved to Italy for a few years.. then to South Florida.. and now back to the west coast in LA. I have managed to find good and not so good in each place. And I suppose it would be debatable as to whether South Florida counts as "East Coast" It's really a hybrid of everywhere.. all smashed into one small area and then broiled under the sun and humidity until ready to explode. However.. I've spent time in the North East (probably more considered "East Coast") and found the stress levels to be higher than I prefer to endure. I guess my laid back west coast upbringing won't allow me to enjoy that kind of in your face rapport with others. I don't have a problem speaking my mind.. but so often it just seems to be a demonstration of one's own ego rather than a valid method of opening up someone else's viewpoint. Therefore.. I find it equally enjoyable to remain silent and let people find their own paths through life without my guidance being necessary. The east coast mentality seems to often be more honest.. but do I really want to know how honest some obnoxious person is just because they feel it is their purpose in life to force their opinion upon me? Naaahhh.. I had plenty of that while living in Italy. Ask three Italians their opinions and you recieve 5 different ones. At least the Italians (And I mean actual Italians here.. not the children of immigrant Italians in the North East that are often descended from criminals and poorly educated immigrants) instead.. the Italians in Italy usuallly give their opinions with class, style and charm.. so you can't help but like them. As for me.. I'd rather just relax and enjoy playing my guitar or listening to some of TMDR's music and savor the aroma of barbequed salmon cooking on my grill. Life is short.. why not enjoy it? LA is definitely a city apart.. kind of a suburban area gone bad.. extending out to cover the hills much like the favelas of Rio.. although the houses here tumble down every ten years thanks to Mother Earth waking up abruptly and letting us know who's the boss. Admittedly.. there lacks a wealth of cultural activities here.. but there are culturally aware events and entertaining things to pursue if one truly desires. They are just not as prevalent and invariably they are at least a 45 minute ride from wherever you are.. only to arrive and deal with parking the car amongst the masses. My personal preference is to invite a couple of friends over.. yes.. you can find friends here if you take your time and sift through the wanna be movie stars and producers that only know how to talk.. talk.. talk about their own wanna be careers. Anyhow.. I would rather have just a couple of friends come over and enjoy that barbecued salmon with me. Some comfortable talk.. a glass of wine.. maybe play some music together.. etc.. makes an evening pleasurable.. and having an eclectic mix of friends definitely raises the level of interesting discussion. Whew.. did I just say all that? Sorry to ramble on here.. back to lurk mode! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 13:55:02 -0400 From: "Robin Thurlow" Subject: Re: Alloy: opinions are like . . . here's mine - ----- Original Message ----- From: > (And I mean actual > Italians here.. not the children of immigrant Italians in the North East that > are often descended from criminals and poorly educated immigrants) Is this the concensus amongst Italian Italians? I'm just curious. I suppose it *would* follow that those who took the drastic step of moving to a land they'd never seen before, and where they knew no one, would only have done so because they felt they had no other choice. If one is very poor, it would seem best to break out of the social order into which you were born and try for something better elsewhere, if the opportunity arose. Some of my own ancestors came from Italy and North Africa. I've been told by friends from West Africa that African-Americans are very different to actual Africans (just as you describe the Italians/Italian Americans)... much more straightforward/'overbearing' socially, and so on. The situations of the Italian and African populations who each came to America couldn't be more different!! but the more agressive personality traits of the American communities resulting from each migration, I think, comes from having to fight for independence and having to take incredible risks to overcome extreme social opposition. I'm sure the manners of our American ancestors are influenced more by this than by having past family members who were criminals or poorly educated. In any case, I'm sure there are still plenty of criminals and poorly educated people in Italy happily reproducing. Just my two cents..! > Anyhow.. I would rather have > just a couple of friends come over and enjoy that barbecued salmon with me. > Some comfortable talk.. a glass of wine.. maybe play some music together.. > etc.. makes an evening pleasurable.. and having an eclectic mix of friends > definitely raises the level of interesting discussion. I agree, Mark, I much prefer very small gatherings myself. I like being able to hear what people around me are saying and have good conversations. When there's a crowd I can't hear very well & I don't have a loud voice myself, so I have no hope of competing, and end up giving up & falling silent. But instead of playing music it's much more fun to tell stories of actual events, or ghost stories (or.... both..?? :) xxx Robin T ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 15:45:36 EDT From: CJMark@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: opinions are like . . . here's mine Hey Robin.. I undoubtedly overstated regarding Italian immigrants.. but Italians in Italy do indeed have a very different approach to life than Ital-Americanos.. particularly in the NE US. I agree with you that poverty and the search for a new and better life led many immigrants to come to "America". In fact.. there is a saying in Italian.. if you "trovato l'America" it literally means you have "Found America" but the true meaning is that you have found your fortune. There were two major immigrations from Italy.. from about 1905 to 1915 and again following World War II to escape the poverty the war left in it's wake. Because most of these people came from the southern, poorer areas of Italy.. they clung to their traditions.. and each other.. for self protection and assistance. One of the results was the "Godfather" type of patriarchal groups that formed.. one of the group would endeavor to protect and help the others.. not always by legal means.. and of course to his own benefit as well. It was survival.. but not all the Godfathers were criminal by any means. La Cosa Nostra.. (This thing of ours.. aka the "Mafia") was already a social system in Italy.. and just continued to function here in the states. However, here.. the onset of prohibition allowed the organized crime groups to prosper.. since the public wanted to drink. And with all the classic stories of gun battles and the ongoing war with the Feds.. the mob never disappeared. It just operated like a water balloon.. you squeeze one end and another end would pop out and spread. These families maintained a way of life that is now often stereotyped as "Italian" in the US. The reality is that there were many Italians who didn't adopt the criminal behavior.. and did manage to create a decent life for themselves and their families by working very hard. The typical "Gumbah" accent and even some of the "Italian" that you hear spoken in the North East is often a form of dialect from southern Italy.. Napoli.. Sicily.. Calabria.. etc.. I've heard many Ital-Americanos in the Northeast using phrases or words from these antique languages.. having further morphed into the American slang and transformed into an unrecognizable mush. It's actually humorous to see them in Italy.. they arrive quite sure that they are speaking "Italiano" and instead the Italians there snicker behind their backs.. since the visitors are speaking a completely strange language that many Italians either don't even understand or else they disdain it as low class. Put that language together with the swagger of wise guy wanna be's.. and you have a typical "Ital-Americano" from the Northeast US. I worked with one on the last film I was shooting in Sardegna.. it was comical. He was like a parody of a bad mafiosi film.. and yet truly believed himself to be a hot shot. I was highly amused.. though a number of others in the cast and crew were not.. feeling instead that he was a total idiot. As you mentioned.. there is a similar situation with African-Americans here and actual Africans. I have a friend that was born in Ghana.. and raised in England.. attended Cambridge University, no less.. and now lives in Manhattan. She is black.. but she finds it quite difficult to relate to many black people here in the U.S. because of their completely different attitudes. Of course.. she has a bit of English snobbery that plays a role in her point of view.. but even so.. their upbringing was so vastly different.. they are obviously completely different people culturally. Anyhow.. I hope I've not offended anyone here at Alloy.. but it's just my humble opinion.. so.. take it all with a grain of salt. Ciao for now.. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 19:14:08 -0400 From: "Robin Thurlow" Subject: Re: Alloy: opinions are like . . . here's mine - ----- Original Message ----- From: > I have a friend that was born in Ghana.. and raised in > England.. attended Cambridge University, no less.. and now lives in > Manhattan. She is black.. but she finds it quite difficult to relate to many > black people here in the U.S. because of their completely different > attitudes. My friend from Nigeria told of her first exposure to North America as a young woman. On the streets of the city she took up residence in, she says the first thing she noticed was the way everyone was walking. She imitated a very stiff-legged, straight-backed, hurried walk to demonstrate. She said she couldn't believe it, and thought it must be because everyone was hurrying to get in from the cold! But in fact, in Nigerian culture, people are taught a more graceful, fluid way of presenting themselves physically from the time they're old enough to walk. Everything still fits into the expected socialised norm, but the expected manner of self-presentation in Nigeria is so different to that here. The second thing she mentioned that struck her is that North Americans wear so many pastel colors. Eventually she realised it's because of the diffence in ambient light in the two regions... the sun is so strong in Nigeria that pastel colors would never be seen. Everything is very bright with well-defined patterns. With the weaker Northern light people can manage to wear subtle patterns and colors and still have them seen. As for regional differences within the US, I'd heard one theory that the East coast is more Hyper because we're the first to wake up (the sun rises here first) and by the time the West coast rises, a lot of business has gone down already & there isn't that sense of immediacy... this goes for things like Wall Street and all of that. But as for regional differences in individuals, I really couldn't say.. but I do know that personally, I'm not a very in-your-face East Coast person, as those who know me can attest :) But maybe the overall "tensions" in those around me has made me more of a hermit than I might have been, had I grown up somewhere else (???) xxxx Robin T ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 20:08:24 -0400 From: "Mary A. Brown" Subject: Alloy: Move Over Dr. Terenzi Hey Crackers, Thanks for pointing out the following site: http://mchawking.com I laughed until I cried at "Entropy" and the way the site is written is an absolute scream. But I must insist that you follow the link to the Celebrity Dream site and post any of your TMDR dreams (I'm partial to "Getting Stinky With Professor Thinky" myself). You'd put those lame entries to shame! Here's a site for a movie of TMDR's appearance on what is my latest must-see TV show, the Screen Savers (too bad we didn't have a dish player years ago so I could have seen him live): http://www.techtv.com/internettonight/musiconline/story/ 0,23008,2436337,00.html Enjoy! Europa ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V6 #204 ***************************