From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V6 #156 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Tuesday, June 19 2001 Volume 06 : Number 156 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Alloy: THE RESULTS [jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com] Alloy: The Alloy Q&A discussion Part I [jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com] Re: Alloy: THE RESULTS [hubcity@exit109.com] Re: Alloy: Here's an idea.... [Robyn Moore ] Re: Alloy: Contest etc [Jon Drukman ] Re: Alloy: XTC, the competition, ebay and the kind of coincidences that you don't want to think about to deeply... [] Re: Alloy: Re: XTC [Robyn Moore ] Re: Alloy: Re: alloy-digest V6 #152 [Robyn Moore ] Re: Alloy: desktop Theremin [Robyn Moore ] Re: Alloy: The Alloy Q&A discussion Part I [Robin Thurlow ] Re: Alloy: Tomb Raider (was: desktop Theremin) ["Robin Thurlow" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:34:51 +0300 From: jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com Subject: Alloy: THE RESULTS Hi all, so here we are. Game over. Of 82 possible Alloy subscribers 22 people or about 27% fielded a guess to which song Thomas originally intended the Thompson twins to perform. Thanks to all who participated! - - especially those who were recorded as having guessed 'By' Brain is Like A Sieve... Sorry about that! The most popular entries were Commercial Breakup and My Brain Is Like A Sieve with three guesses each followed by Cloudburst At Shingle Street and She Blinded Me with Science, Windpower and Weightless with two guesses each. All the rest were single guesses and so there was no need to draw lots as one of the single guesses was the successful entry. But which one? White City Flying North Urban Tribal Don't turn away Europa One of our Submarines Airwaves Urges I was actually surprised that there wasn't more speculation over this on-list. There were, however a few very near the knuckle comments made. Sean wrote: > I'll stick with the "trading voices" litmus test and > Windpower, unless of course it is wrong, which it very well may be... Well I'm sorry to say that you were right there as it wasn't Windpower but how very very close you were! On 11.05.01 I was pleased to be able to meet up with Thomas in San Mateo where we had arranged to do a question and answer session for Alloy. If you remember I mentioned a while back that I had been reading through the Alloy Archives... Around this time Robin asked the question, covertly for me, to prompt people to tell what they would like to ask Thomas if they had the chance... this was all in preparation for our meeting. I am very pleased to be able to present the transcription of our chat based on OUR Alloy questions! The answer to the Thompson Twins question can be found in the transcript but as it isn't possible to post it in its entirety in one session due to its size. The following is an extract: About half way into the discussion I asked: Jon: Phil Louie mentioned in '97 that he's always thought that Puppet Theatre sounded like it could have been a Thompson Twins song and at that time, around the period of 'In The Name Of Love' when they were a seven piece band you were working with them. He put two and two together and made five and a quarter and so on. Is there any fabric behind that? Thomas: No, but I actually wrote 'One Of Our Submarines' for the Thompson Twins... Jon: REALLY! Thomas: Yep, what happened was that quite often I would do something with somebody in mind and then very quickly I would realise that I had put so much of myself into them that I couldn't give them away. I started off writing 'One Of Our Submarines' for the Thompson Twins, I started off writing 'Hyperactive' for Michael Jackson... there are maybe others that I haven't thought about. Actually these new songs that I've got, there's a couple that I've written for other people. There is one that I wrote for Eddie Reader and I get to a certain point where obviously they're Thomas-songs and not anybody else's. CONGRATULATIONS A n d y J for guessing correctly. Please indulge us and tell what your reason was for choosing this song? Let me know your postal address and I'll get the CD off to you as soon as I can. As Sean sooooo ironically put it. "That all having been said, wouldn't it be a shock if it were "Submarines"?" You said it mate! My jaw dropped when he told me. You have to remember Thomas's words when thinking about this. It only became a Thomas song along-the-way but what a Thomas-song it became. IMHO one of THE Thomas-songs. Part one of the Alloy Q&A follows as a separate posting. Go get yourself a cup of coffee and make yourself comfortable. I have a feeling that you're going to enjoy this! Each posting has a maximum size of 7000 characters so I've broken it down into chunks. Cheers all, Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:44:26 +0300 From: jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com Subject: Alloy: The Alloy Q&A discussion Part I Hi all, please find to follow the direct transcription of the conversation that Thomas and I had last month. This hasn't been edited. Enjoy! 11.05.01 Beatnik offices. San Mateo, California Jon: Firstly thank you very much for making the time, I really appreciate it and I know the Alloyites will be really surprised by this. What I have done is gone through the Alloy archives back about 4 years and dredged out some of the things that have been on peoples minds and also some recent musings and some of my own questions. So this is Beatnik. Thomas: Yes, this is part of Beatnik. There is a floor below us which is where the creatives are and on this floor it is mainly engineering and admin. Jon: Alloys Kathleen, amongst others, wanted to know how Beatnik is doing. How many people work for Beatnik now? Thomas; It's about 85 currently. Jon: It's still quite small then but there are a lot of very positive press releases coming through these days and it sounds like there are a lot of really interesting things happening here at the moment. Thomas: Yes, it's amazing. It has got really interesting now that we are really getting focused on the wireless device arena over the last few months. It is really exciting to go where the center of gravity is, you know, and especially where the rules haven't been defined yet. So, what kind of a role music plays in the new mobile society-this is just the right kind of challenge for me. Jon: At the moment the playing field is wide open and who knows who is going to end up on top. This is my first time in California and after visiting some companies in silicon valley it seems the vision that people have in this area is very very much different to the traditional views in Europe. They seem to be thinking many steps ahead. Thomas: Well that's refreshing because we're starting to get a bit of an inferiority complex about being a couple of years behind Europe and Asia. Jon: In some areas maybe but people seem to be so much more enthusiastic about what they do here. Thomas: Yeah, I think they generally are. I am always surprised when I go back [to the UK] and people are saying, "...oh, right... so what's new?" [indicating a general apathy that things are changing very fast these days] But a lot of it is just superficial, I think Americans tend to flap more and enthuse more. Jon: You've been here now, what, 13, 14 years? Thomas: About 15 years now, it was about '96, I sort of count '96 as the first year that I moved. Jon: A question from Trevor Blagg was how often and what do you listen to from your own material, assuming you do that at all, for enjoyment purposes? Thomas: Every now and then, but not at all often. My family and my friends listen more often than I do. My kids put it on and dance around singing to it but they tend to play the same track over and over and it just drives me completely mad! Jon: Back in 1996 Ms Sakamoto wanted to know which is track would that be? Thomas: Well whatever they are into at the time. It may be 'Hyperactive' or it might be, oh, what else do they like, ah, 'My Brain Is Like A Sieve', 'Silk Pyjamas' they like, but they just get really into it and play it over and over again and it drives me crazy! Jon: So if you had to choose what you own favorite track is and by that I mean the one out of all the music you have created that means the most to you or the one of which you are most proud, which would it be? Thomas: Ahm, yeah, it's really hard! I think it would probably be between 'Screen Kiss', 'Budapest by Blimp' and 'I Love You Goodbye', and 'I Love You Goodbye' would win. I'm very fond of all of them, they are the deepest of all the things that I've done and the most multifaceted. I think 'I Love You Goodbye' sort of wins it at the end of the day because it is very much in the first person. You know, in other words the feelings are very much from the inside out; versus writing songs where I take a position; take a very specific position. I think with 'Screen Kiss' for example I think I am taking a position somewhat on that. It's difficult to explain why exactly, it's... does that make any sense? ...to take a position? Jon: Yes, it does but please go on. Thomas; It's like there are two kinds of actors. There's a character actor, the one who assumes the idiosyncrasies and behaviour patterns of a particular personality and then there's another kind of actor who just says the lines and makes them real for themselves. Kathleen for example is the latter. She doesn't do characters. She finds a way to make her lines from the script come from inside her and she has no ability to affect different things. There is a mode in songwriting that I have that is similar to that. I'm sort of emoting something that is very personal. Another mode is where I assume a position and a lot of the things that I have done are like that and, you know, it doesn't necessarily take away from what I feel about them. But if you take a set of people and ask them what their favourite tracks are, take the Alloyites for example, and ask them what their top ten favourite tracks are and some of them will choose tracks that are in the category where I'm sort of putting something on - that's OK too - but in a way the ones that I'm most proud of and the most defensive of are the ones where I was vulnerable enough to just let it come... Jon: ... from within you? Thomas: Yes, exactly. Jon: To change the subject a little, have you ever considered recording using Dolby Digital in six channels where you could have, for example, the person listening could be in effect on the sound stage with the percussion behind them, the keyboard instruments or guitar or whatever it may be on the right of them and the guitars on the left; the vocal from the centre channel and so on. Has anybody done that? Thomas, Yes, people have done that and going further back there was a quadraphonic period which didn't do so well and there are different ways to do it. But the answer is actually "no" for a couple of reasons. The first is that those film systems... you can get one implementation of those systems to sound fantastic and if I went to a studio and was mixing into 6-channel Dolby I could blow your mind. However, the industry is selling you a bit of a con because when you take home that DVD and put it on your home Dolby Digital system it should be exactly as the author intended it, but in fact that's not the case. In a lot of cinemas as well it doesn't sound like it was [originally] set up as they are not calibrated very well and that makes a mockery of it. For example, with 'Gate to The Minds Eye' we did a mix for Dolby 5.1 and I don't have very high end home theatre equipment at all but my brother is really into it and he asked me over one day and put the Gate To The Minds Eye DVD up on the big screen on a 5.1 stereo system and it sounded absolutely dire! It took me a while to figure it out and it was, like, number one; his system had these presets for "stadium" and "jazz-club" and so on and he had one of those punched in. Number two is that there are settings that are user-configurable to do with the balance between the front and back speakers and so on and that lets you over-ride what the engineer originally intended. That stuff is really dangerous. Give me a pair of speakers where there is only a certain amount of variation, that's the first thing. The second thing is the soundscape that I mix to is not necessarily related to a spatial one and I'm not trying to simulate what it would be like to be on sound stage in the middle of a band. It's not a simulation, it's pure fiction, so if it works for me to pan the drum-kit all the way over to the left speaker and have only the reverbs on the right speaker there's no set rules to say that that is not the way that life works; nothing to say that you can't do that. It's purely abstract; there's a lot I can do with just those two speakers. Jon: In some of your songs, in fact quite a number of your songs there are references to bucking the system and acting independently. I assume that you still adhere to this point to view today. If that's the case then there are some artists that are now selling directly as opposed to through record companies - which I know you have a lot of affection for! - I would hedge my bets to say that it is likely that you have some previously unreleased material somewhere... ... end of part I . To be continued. ... and what a answer to wait for. The illusive unreleased-material-hoard question and possibly selling it directly... Part II / XII follows next Monday. Watch this space! Cheers! Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:53:32 GMT From: hubcity@exit109.com Subject: Re: Alloy: THE RESULTS Folks, Allright, I'm an oracle. But only when I'm absolutely sure something *isn't* true - in that case, bet on it. Ah well... - -Sean http://www.altrok.com > > As Sean sooooo ironically put it. > > "That all having been said, wouldn't it be a shock if it were "Submarines"?" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:17:08 -0700 From: Robyn Moore Subject: Re: Alloy: Here's an idea.... And lo! At 19:48 2001.06.14, the email zephyrs conveyed thy words unto me thusly: >Ooops! > >Thank you Russ Milliner for finding an error on my webpage that left it >unviewable from Netscape. > >It should be viewable from Netscape now. Yay! I can see it now! I was going to mail and ask if I had to switch over to IE, but I guess Russ beat me to it. Thanks, Russ! :) And Thanks Crackers for fixing it. :) Robyn M This message brought to you by the sound of adding to my bookmark file. @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.wiccans.net/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:29:44 -0700 From: Jon Drukman Subject: Re: Alloy: Contest etc At 10:29 AM 6/14/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Jon D... congratulations on your show!! I wish I could have attended, as I >love what I've heard so far & would be interested to hear a live >performance. I hope it all went well. here's a few excerpts: http://spoo.pretension.com/destruct.mp3 http://spoo.pretension.com/stormworld.mp3 i apologize for the dodgy sound quality. it's always a major struggle for me to record a show it seems, and something always goes wrong. dammit!! for an interesting point of comparison, here is a "live in the studio" rehearsal clip: http://spoo.pretension.com/dmf.mp3 you'll notice it's similar to "destruct" in some ways. that's because to play "live" with electronic stuff i always make sure to have a solid "core" of tracks that i can use as a starting point for exploration and fall back on in case something goes horribly wrong. - -jsd- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:31:37 -0700 From: Jon Drukman Subject: Re: Alloy: XTC, the competition, ebay and the kind of coincidences that you don't want to think about to deeply... At 09:50 AM 6/17/2001 +0300, jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com wrote: >Now this XTC thread has really fascinated me: >Jon Wrote: > > > you are correct. it's detailed in the xtc "song stories" > > book (which i have read cover to cover about 10 times, it's fascinating!) > >That's definitely on my reading list now then. I have quite a collection of >musical biographies but not this one. There is nothing more consuming than >reading about the development of songs and careers than when you are >simultaneously listening to the music. "song stories" is one of the best bio's i've ever read too. they go through every album song by song and the band comments on whatever comes to mind about it. also there are larger sections preceding each album explaining the context in their lives. it's really well done. >- So this is just another case where Thomas has been used as a pawn for a >music industry asshole then. I wonder if Thomas had been consulted in >advance. ha! >How did the performance go Jon? Do tell! see my previous email on the list... i hope you all enjoy the clips. there is a video tape too that i am trying to get a hold of for digitizing. the place was so packed, it was amazing and gratifying. - -jsd- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:39:40 -0700 From: Robyn Moore Subject: Re: Alloy: Re: XTC And lo! At 10:06 2001.06.16, the email zephyrs conveyed thy words unto me thusly: >I never heard about TMDR singing for XTC. > >Speaking of forgotten interviews, I thought I read recently that the whole >stage fright thing was more about Andy being just plane tired of touring >because their contract demanded too much of them and they were not really >getting much out of it. > >But then again, they now are with a new label and I guess they haven't >resumed touring, so who knows. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the stage fright were brought on by that. Touring stress has done all kinds of strange things to artists. Pity I never got to see them in concert, though - not only are they talented, but Andy's a real cutie. >Speaking of three letter English bands from the late 70's. I caught ELO's >Storytellers on VH1 last night. Jeff Lynn said that he dropped out of ELO >after the Time album because it was last album of a demanding contract with >his record label that required too many albums. Damn labels and their >screwy contracts. I taped that the other night, but haven't had time to watch it yet, as it was a pretty busy weekend. I can understand Jeff Lynne's feelings, but I'm terribly grateful he didn't drop out before "Time", as that's my overall favourite album of ELO's. >I just picked up the new ELO album Zoom (in case any ELO fans out there were >not aware - there is a new album - first in 17 years). Not bad - sounds >very much like ELO should sound. It does? I'll have to snag a copy, then. I was kind of waiting around to see what the consensus was before picking it up. Robyn M This message powered by my internal soundtrack, which is currently alternating between "Lies Lies Lies" by TT and "Mayor of Simpleton" by XTC. @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.wiccans.net/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:49:06 -0700 From: Robyn Moore Subject: Re: Alloy: Re: alloy-digest V6 #152 And lo! At 15:48 2001.06.16, the email zephyrs conveyed thy words unto me thusly: >Hmm...guess it loses something without the tune. Anyway, this is about the >worst thing I have ever gotten stuck in my head, commercial jingles included! Oof...and I thought I had it rough one day last week when my internal soundtrack was alternating between the Theme to Mr. Ed and the Theme to Hello Kitty. ::comf Beth:: Robyn M @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.wiccans.net/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:02:07 -0700 From: Robyn Moore Subject: Re: Alloy: desktop Theremin And lo! At 21:59 2001.06.16, the email zephyrs conveyed thy words unto me thusly: >who just got back from seeing Tomb Raider... and I should mention, some of my >fellow sci-fi junkies here may recognise her butler when you see this film... >it's Rimmer from "Red Dwarf"! > >yay :) Agreed with Yay! Chris is about the only reason I'd be willing to see that movie, as Angelina Jolie just doesn't do it for me. Did he get a decent amount of airtime? I couldn't tell from the local review - the reviewer thought that only Ms. Jolie and a couple of the other actors (Noah Taylor and Angelina's daddy, Jon Voight) were worth mentioning...the rest of the cast was dismissed with the comment "comprised largely of undistinguished Brits". Robyn M This message brought to you by my internal soundtrack, which has switched to "The Rimmer Song". @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.wiccans.net/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:48:51 -0400 From: Robin Thurlow Subject: Re: Alloy: The Alloy Q&A discussion Part I to Thomas and Jon... thank you so much for arranging this great interview :) !!! It's fascinating so far. I have to go home and print it out in order to read it in a nice calm atmosphere, unlike that here at work today. I love hearing of the creative process behind the songs & also that the more personally expressive pieces are the ones Thomas feels most proud of. The thing about taking a stance as opposed to having the work come from within is very well said. I've personally been trying to do away with any shade of outwardness and get to the core of things in my own work lately and I know how hard it is to even successfully identify it, let alone accomplish it, as a lot of outward things become part of the way we see ourselves over the years without our even knowing, sometimes. I can see why it would make him particularly proud to see so many elements come together so well while having the song remain a true expression of himself. Looking forward to the next installments! xxxx Robin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 19:46:26 -0400 From: "Mary A. Brown" Subject: Alloy: Lene in porn movie? Chris wrote: > An interesting little item I came across (oh err!) just now while > updating some stuff on my site. From Lene's tour diary for 1980; > > March 9th - Day off in New Haven. Boredom leads to Bruce Wooley > home porn movies. > > Now I believe that Bruce Wooley was support for the US part of > this tour. I wonder if Tom was involved somewhere? Hmm, just what do you mean by this question? Was Thomas involved in the porn movie or was he on tour at this time? :-) Robin, I've got the mop and bucket at the ready...Wasn't this the period in which TMDR wrote New Toy for Lene? (Batteries not included.) Y'know, the only time I've ever been groped by a stranger was at a Lene concert at the Metro in Chicago. She must have some strange erotic powers! If anyone has been to New Haven, then you can understand the boredom. I'm not sure what it was like in 1980 but from 1986-93, you didn't dare walk off the Yale campus area. A friend got her car broken into while she was at a conference there and someone else I know was shot at an ATM. There is a great club there called Toad's Place, though, where I saw Lene in, um, '89, I think. Still looking for that digital lawnmower, Europa PS Please forgive my strange mood - I think the pre-surgery jitters have gotten to me! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:45:15 -0400 From: "Robin Thurlow" Subject: Re: Alloy: Tomb Raider (was: desktop Theremin) Robyn wrote: > ...the rest > of the cast was dismissed with the comment "comprised largely of > undistinguished Brits". oh. How nice. Interesting how each one of the British actors this guy offhandedly dismisses in this film has more talent than certain Hollywood "Oscar-winners" I could mention (but won't) However I'm pleased to tell you that Chris Barrie got plenty of screen time and did a fantastic job as the butler, Hillary. In an interview I read, he explained that the screen version of the butler is cast much younger than the game version because the creators are bearing in mind the possibility of sequels. I won't give anything away about Tomb Raider, but I will say that overall, I felt it lacked tension... both in the plot line, and in the relationships between certain characters who were meant to be at odds. There were some nice visuals and game references but without plot-driven tension it didn't feel that much like an action movie, despite some very good action sequences (in which Mr. Barrie gets to join in, at one point!) But it was a decent start anyway. I hope if there is a sequel they'll try to work on the intensity a bit. With the great cast they have, and the character of the Tomb Raider, there's a lot of potential for good story-telling. BTW on the subject of songs getting stuck on permanent repeat in our heads... one of the more pleasant (but exhausting) ones I've had recently was Elton John's cover of the Who's "Pinball Wizard" from Tommy. It was playing on the radio when my alarm went off one morning & from that moment I was instantly off on a 3-day "Pinball Wizard" jag. Fun song though!! sorry so OT today! xxx Robin T ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:38:13 -0400 From: "Robin Thurlow" Subject: Re: Alloy: Tomb Raider (was: desktop Theremin) ... hope I can still add something to my Tomb Raider review... that we enjoyed it! It simply wasn't as intense as I thought it *could* have been, though maybe I expect too much from a film adaptation of a Playstation game :) TMDR related content form here on in I promise, ~R What does everyone think of Jon's interview with Thomas so far? I wonder if he got to answer the question I most wanted to know the answer to.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 22:02:14 -0600 From: "Keith Stansell" Subject: Re: Alloy: Lene in porn movie? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary A. Brown" > Still looking for that digital lawnmower, > Europa Look no more: oh eee oh - nothing too demanding. http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CT LG%5F006%5F002%5F008%5F000&product%5Fid=990%2D0408 ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V6 #156 ***************************