From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V6 #144 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Thursday, June 7 2001 Volume 06 : Number 144 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Alloy: Serious question about Alloy members access style ["Tim Hudson" ] Alloy: Re: alloy-digest V6 #143 [Robin Thurlow ] Re: Alloy: Serious question about Alloy members access style [Paul Baily ] Alloy: Tommy Awards ["Michael & Denise Luckey" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 17:06:28 +0000 From: "Tim Hudson" Subject: Alloy: Serious question about Alloy members access style Hi, I have heard that Internet access is free in the USA. As Robin is finding out....in the UK it certainly isn't. So two things: 1). I apologise for sending such a big anagram list. At the time I thought it was amusing but I probably really hacked people off as they sat there paying for connect time to download it. Sincere appologies folks. 2). How do Alloy users log on to the list ? Do we know how many people do this for 'free' or 'via work' ....cough ! and how many are running up huge phone bills in connection time to read the list? Its a pertanent question because if people are paying lots of phonebills to read this list - we had all - myself included big time -had better improve the quality of the messages they are paying for. If on the other hand nearly everyone on the list is participating at not much personal cost or for free - we can be forgiven for going off message and doing silly stuff like my stupid anagrams.. Nobodys flamed me up for this off list or anything - amazingly - its just that - as I often do - I acted without thinking first. Now with hindsight I realise I might have upset some people with my stupid long postings - especially if they are paying to download such drivel. My sincere appologies once again [a few more bytes there] can we have a quick survey on who access the list for 'free' and who is paying? or is this also a daft idea? [ I'm good at those ]. Hopefully this will be received as a constructive question and something that might improve the signal to noise or whatever its called and reduce peoples phone bills. When is noise quality noise and when is it just rubbish? Are there any Alloy rules on this? regards Tim. - -- Tim Hudson tim_hudson@zdnetonebox.com - email ___________________________________________________________________ To get your own FREE ZDNet Onebox - FREE voicemail, email, and fax, all in one place - sign up today at http://www.zdnetonebox.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 10:19:04 -0700 From: Jon Drukman Subject: Re: Alloy: Serious question about Alloy members access style At 05:06 PM 6/6/2001 +0000, you wrote: >I have heard that Internet access is free in the USA. you can get free access if you don't mind horrible ads all over your screen, attached to your mail, etc... i think a lot of people pay though. >can we have a quick survey on who access the list for 'free' and who >is paying? i pay for "small office" DSL for my house. US$90/mo, but i split it with my upstairs neighbor. unlimited usage. 384k up/1.5M down. in theory it's tax deductible since i am a self-employed computer contractor. - -jsd- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 11:23:04 -0700 From: Robyn Moore Subject: Re: Alloy: Serious question about Alloy members access style And lo! At 10:06 2001.06.06, the email zephyrs conveyed thy words unto me thusly: >2). How do Alloy users log on to the list ? Do we know how many people >do this for 'free' or 'via work' ....cough ! and how many are running >up huge phone bills in connection time to read the list? We have a 24/7 ISDN line that runs about $75 a month because it's considered a business line. >Nobodys flamed me up for this off list or anything - amazingly - its >just that - as I often do - I acted without thinking first. We have an amazingly low flame rate here. In all the years this list has been going (If the archives are correct, we just had our 6th anniversary), I can only think of maybe three or four dustups serious enough to even be considered flame wars. Don't feel too badly - it may have been silly, but it was on topic. ;) >When is noise quality noise and when is it just rubbish? Are there any >Alloy rules on this? That's a little tougher. We can get pretty far afield sometimes, and we have had a few people unsub because, in their estimation, we've strayed too far from topic too often. However, it's generally understood that we can only go over the same material so many times, so a fair amount of leeway's built in. But that's just me talking. If you want a more authoritative answer, you can either read the faq at http://www.robinthurlow.addr.com/AlloyFAQpage.htm, talk to Paul, or talk to Robin when she gets back. Speaking of being gone, I must dash - it's my husband's and my birthdays tomorrow and Friday, so I have to go finish shopping while I've still got a couple of hours to squeeze it into. Hope I was at least a little helpful. :) Robyn M @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.wiccans.net/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:44:52 +0300 From: jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com Subject: Alloy: Urban Tribal Hi all, I got the video out tonight and tried to write down the lyric to Urban Tribal but I got stuck on a few words. I would appreciate any suggestions here from people who have a studio version. Urban Tribal VERSE She talked to boys from the far side of town and in a while one chose her they paint her face bringing gifts for her father and shower her with roses CHORUS In the early days they used to laugh a lot now they don't even smile very often and their eyes seldom meet if they can help it Urban tribal the birds of heaven answer to your call Urban tribal she won't feed your baby anymore she was the last in line ready to be taken by motherhood and on bible to still the urban tribal <- ???? from her blood VERSE She'll tell it all at the confession tonight one prayer for hope one for pardon the early moon and the glow from her ????-light will light her way back to ???? repeat chorus Any ideas? I really like that song but I still haven't reached a conclusion about the meaning. It seems pretty obvious at first but I'm thinking that there is more to it than meets the eye. What is urban tribal? Vexed, perplexed and powered by the silence of a thankfully now sleeping child... oh what a luxury! Jon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 13:08:21 -0600 From: "Keith Stansell" Subject: Re: Alloy: Serious question about Alloy members access style Perhaps what you were thinking of as "free" is the fact that most people in the US have flat rates - per month charge for unlimited internet use - around $20-$25 per month. I think the other difference here is that in the US, most local phone calls are a flat rate paid per month, and not paid by the minute. So, it doesn't matter how long you are on, you pay the same. Myself, I also use a DSL connection at home because I am an internet geek (but I also get paid to be one) and like the high-speed always on access. I also can get my email at work (cough) as I am now. - -Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Drukman" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 11:19 AM Subject: Re: Alloy: Serious question about Alloy members access style > > At 05:06 PM 6/6/2001 +0000, you wrote: > >I have heard that Internet access is free in the USA. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 00:20:41 +0100 From: "Blagg & Norling" Subject: Re: Alloy: My Tom Collection Again! Paul, This is one hell of a collection........I thought I had everything when I won the My Brain Is Like A Sieve CD this week on Ebay (still yet to receive it though...Touching a very large chunk of wood.) but you can certainly add me to those who feel inadequate.... However, there are couple of items that intrigue; Firstly, that live recording from Birmingham you have. I was actually at that concert. Where did you get it from? This is amazing!!!!! I would kill for that! Also, what is 'Hunger City' under your 12" listings? Is this a Song with Dolby vocals? Paul you really impress with your video collection too. How the hell have you managed to get hold of Fever Pitch and Ferngully? I find these impossible to obtain. Fantastic Paul....You are a credit to Thomas & Alloy.... Trevor...... Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 13:52:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Clayton Subject: Re: Alloy: Urban Tribal On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com wrote: > I got the video out tonight and tried to write down the lyric to Urban > Tribal but I got stuck on a few words. > I would appreciate any suggestions here from people who have a studio > version. Here's what I can make out from the Low Noise single: She talked to boys from the far side of town And in a while one chose her They paint her face, bring gifts for her father And shower her with roses CHORUS In the early days they used to laugh a lot Now they don't even smile very often And their eyes seldom meet If they can help it... Urban tribal The girl don't have an answer to your call Urban tribal She won't feed your babies anymore She was the last in line ready to be taken for motherhood Hand on Bible to still the urban tribal From her blood She'll tell it all at confession tonight One prayer for hope, one for pardon The early moon and the glow from the power plant Will light her way back to Harlaston(*) (chorus) (*) This is my best guess, since I'm unfamiliar with English placenames. At least, is *sounds* about right :) Here's a map showing where it is: http://mq-mapgend.websys.aol.com/mqmapgend?MQMapGenRequest=FDR2dmwjDE%3bf72q%26FDT7w%7cd0zgdr%24.9yyxl%40%24%3a%26%40%24%3ag%408n0%408aq%40C%13%14D%3aHOHQJ%3b4a09yz%3a%29uzgla%24%3a%26%40%24%3a%26%40a%3a Perhaps Thomas will confirm...? BC - -- "No one can predict with certainty what the ultimate meaning will be of mastery of space." -- John F. Kennedy, May 25th, 1961 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 13:58:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Robin Thurlow Subject: Alloy: Re: alloy-digest V6 #143 doughboy wrote: > > MY HUNGER STRIKE CONTINUES, AND IT IS NOW DAY 8 > > I DEMAND THE IMMEDIATE RELEASE OF A NEW THOMAS DOLBY > ALBUM OR I WILL CONTINUE MY HUNGER STRIKE. > > MAKE SURE HE KNOWS OR I WILL GO PUBLIC LOL, I'd love to see what CNN would make of this actually, as well as Pillsbury for that matter! It'd be publicity for Thomas (eh, of some sort..?? :) so please do go for it, oh deflating one. Maybe you should put a cork in it! (sorry everyone) Jetlag, you know. xxx ~R PS what happened to poor old Elmo lying dead on your nightstand there? what were you protesting with him? I DEMAND THE RELEASE OF A NEW SEX PISTOLS ALBUM OR ELMO GETS IT. Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 10:23:29 +1000 From: Paul Baily Subject: Re: Alloy: Serious question about Alloy members access style Hi Tim, > I have heard that Internet access is free in the USA. I've heard that they have free lunches there as well. ;-) > So two things: > > 1). I apologise for sending such a big anagram list. I tend to agree with the others in that it was kinda relevant, definitely in the Alloy spirit, and wasn't really a big hit (I think anyway) bandwidth-wise. Always good to hear your thoughts Tim! > 2). How do Alloy users log on to the list ? Do we know how many people > do this for 'free' or 'via work' ....cough ! and how many are running > up huge phone bills in connection time to read the list? I'd imagine that most people these days have at least a 33kbps dialup connection, probably more likely 56kbps or if serious about internet access, cable modems or ADSL/DSL. Any of these would make light work of the sorts of email we get 'round these here parts. Even in the previous couple of months when I was without my PowerBook and on a measly 9600bps connection, mail didn't take a horrendously long time to grab. On a 56kbps link my mail usually comes in at anything between 5-10k a second (if I'm to believe my email client) so at most that message would have cost about a second. :-) Additionally I would imagine that aside from globe trotters, the only people who would use hotmail or yahoomail via a web interface would be people in an office wanting an independent account. Even with these two services you can use an email client to read & compose mail offline. I use a plain old 56k dialup connection to one of the faster ISPs that charges me something like AUS$35-40/mnth (can't remember, it's a direct debit thing) and I rarely burn into excess hours. You can get unlimited use accounts here for as little as AUS$20/month. On most domestic lines here in Australia we're not time charged for local calls and they cost at most AUS$0.22 per call. Yes the phone bill does mount up but that's just me keeping on forgetting to grab stuff and hopping on multiple times during the day. If I were disciplined I could easily get away with one call a day. I guess the only exception here is if someone needs to make a long distance call to connect to an ISP but I've not seen any complaints so far (please speak up if you're in this situation!) While I'm minding the shop for Robin I must admit I am checking in multiple times a day to see how the Almeister is going, but don't normally do this. That said, as an email and network administrator (I'm sure general dog's body is also in my job desc. somewhere!) I can say that even with our company's laughably small internet connection, the impact of traffic like this is negligible to zero. It's why I don't have an IT policy in place at work that prohibits people signing up to non-work related lists (within reasonable limits of course). Just don't get me started on joke emails (friends don't let friends send 4MB powerpoint docs of sleeping kittens with a ciggie dangling out it's mouth...) Robyn's message explained it all nicely in that yes we do get 'transient' visitors here who hop on then unsub after the first message that isn't 100% Dolby related either due to very tight time constraints (IMAP is a big help here) or fixed expectations of how a list should be but I'd imagine that's to be expected on any list. IMHO the very fact that we do feel comfortable to wander off on tangents now and then is one of the key parts of Alloy being the unique, interesting list that it is. It's also great to hear thoughts on LTUAE from people you'd never normally be lucky enough meet in real life. > When is noise quality noise and when is it just rubbish? Are there any > Alloy rules on this? As Robyn mentioned it's worth having a look at the FAQ, but basically just common sense and courtesy is all that's needed. Alloy is a fine bunch of people so 99.99..% of the time the noise is of the best quality. :-) cheers, and as always if anyone has any comments they'd rather express privately, they're more than welcome to contact Robin Thurlow or myself offlist. Paul. This message powered by Walking in my Shoes/Depeche Mode off The Singles 86-98. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:05:32 -0400 From: "Michael & Denise Luckey" Subject: Alloy: Tommy Awards Greetings all! Just a quick post to say that I received my Tommy Awards prize the other day and am thrilled to death with it! A big thanks to Robin and Thomas for making this so much fun for all of us slightly deranged fans! I've been very busy this spring trying to sell our home so I haven't posted much but I do read each and every Alloy Digest and would like to say just how much I enjoy these interactions between this close knit group. Thanks again for a great 3 years(that I've been subscribed to Alloy)and I'll look forward to many more! M. Luckey ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V6 #144 ***************************