From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V6 #55 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Sunday, March 4 2001 Volume 06 : Number 055 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Alloy: Re: alloy: Beatnik Site ["Ian Gifford" ] Alloy: another delurk-relurk... [jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com] Re: Alloy: FEVER PITCH SOUNDTRACK [Spencer2424@aol.com] Re: Alloy: FEVER PITCH SOUNDTRACK ["Ian Gifford" ] Re: Alloy: FEVER PITCH SOUNDTRACK ["Robin" ] Alloy: to jon ["PAULO GONZALEZ" ] [none] ["PAULO GONZALEZ" ] Alloy: Re: alloy: Beatnik site ["Ian Gifford" ] Re: Alloy: to jon ["Robin" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 03:01:02 -0500 From: "Ian Gifford" Subject: Alloy: Re: alloy: Beatnik Site Thanks trevor. I think you might be right about the sound card. I have a sound blaster "awe 32" 16 bit sound card. A friend of mine was over today and I showed him what was going on when he suggested also that it might be the sound card. Looks like I might have to bite the bullet and step back into the new age and upgrade this dinosaur of mine. Oh well... I will get to hear the true sound of "RMF" yet. Ian > >Ian, > >I don't get this particular problem, but what I do get is a glitch in the >background music every time I use the slider to read up or further down the >page. As soon as I stop sliding the music continues as it should. I also >get >this glitch when I change page? > >The one thing we both have in common is, in modern days terms, a relatively >low performance PC for Internet browsing. Maybe as you say this has >something to do with it although the Beatnik specifications do advise that >my P2 should be sufficient. > >Ian, one thing that also springs to mind is that it could be something to >do >with the type of soundcard you are using? I had many problems with >soundcards such as the early Creative Labs SoundBlaster models which >although recorded in 16 bit sound, only played back in 8 bit. If I recorded >in 8 bit, I was then able to play back in 16 bit mode (Although technically >speaking this wasn't 16 bit as with most recording the sound is only as >good >as the source.) My point is that when I did this I often experienced the >effect you talk about. I changed my soundcard to a professional 'Event' >model for my studio and low and behold, the problem vanished...... > >Trevor..... > >- ---- Original Message ----- >From: Ian Gifford >To: >Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 6:56 AM >Subject: Alloy: Re: Beatnik Site > > > > > > Yes, > > > > I have recently been by the Beatnik site but it frustrates the heck out >of > > me. Every time I trigger a mouseover or something of that nature, my >Beatnik > > player plays the sample as if it is being played 4 times >simultaneously... > > meaning that it sounds choppy and not really all that musical. > > > > Is this the way it is supposed to sound? > > > > Is my Pentium 120 with 48 meg of ram too small for Beatnik? > > > > AM I JUST A BIG LOSER THAT WILL NEVER GET TO KNOW THE POWER OF >BEATNIK??? > > ARRRRGH ....ahem.... ooops... sorry ;) > > > > Anyone know what I can do about this? > > > > Ian > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > >------------------------------ > >End of alloy-digest V6 #54 >************************** > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:36:29 +0200 From: jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com Subject: Alloy: another delurk-relurk... Now I know that this has ready been partly said by here is my 2c's worth. Paulo wrote > I UNDERSTAND THE POSITION OF THOMAS, REGARDING NAPSTER. BUT I > SUBSCIBED TO ALLOY ONLY RECENTLY, BECAUSE I PURCHASED MY COMPUTER AT THE > TAIL END OF YEAR 2000. I DID NOT HAVE THE CHANCE TO LISTEN TO OR DOWNLOAD > THE FEVER PITCH SOUNDTRACK. To be quite frank: (and please excuse my French) Tough shit. I didn't log on to my mail server over Christmas as I had guests and when I did I realised that I had missed it by two days. I was stoked about it but it was gone. C'est la vie. > YOU ARE TELLING NOT TO E-MAIL IT FOR SECURITY REASONS. BUT > THIS ISN'T FAIR SINCE IT WAS ONCE AVAILABLE. This was a gift that Thomas personally made for the Alloy members. It was never generally available so you have absolutely no right to demand a copy. It *is* fair as this is Thomas' wish and it is his property and nobody elses. > I AM A VERY LONG TIME THOMAS DOLBY FAN, LIVING > VERY FAR IN BRAZIL, AND BECAUSE OF THIS IT HAS BEEN VERY HARD > TO BUY T.D. MATERIAL FROM OTHER COUNTRIES. If you are indeed a Thomas Dolby fan then why are you disrespecting his wishes that this material is not be distributed further by any means without his permission? All the Alloy members are repeatedly touched and honored when Thomas takes time out from his busy schedule to do things for us or comment on our discussions. We don't want this special connection with him to be damaged in any way and that is why we respect his wishes. I want that file too goddamnit! But I can't get it because unless he makes it available to us again I would have to ask someone to do something 'bad' and I'm not going to put anyone in that position. Grow up and learn to live with the fact that the internet does not mean you can have whatever you want and you have no responsibility! > SO IN SPITE OF YOU NOT BEING ALLOWED TO CIRCULATE THE FEVER > PITCH SOUND TRACK AROUND, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK TO ANYONE OF YOU, IF > SOMEONE COULD E-MAIL ME IT. IT IS A CHANCE TO HAVE ONE MORE THOMAS DOLBY ITEM INTO > MY COLLECTION. Get in line. > IMAGINE THAT THIS WAS HAPPENING TO YOU! It is. > WOULDN'T YOU BE GLAD TO HAVE THE SOUNDTRACK? Yes I would. > WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO HEAR IT FOR THE FIRST TIME?' It would indeed be a perfect treat. > WOULDN IT BE GREAT TO RECEIVE IT BY E-MAIL, SINCE IT IS NOT > AROUND ANY MORE? It would *only* be great if the e-mail in which it arrived was sent by Thomas himself. From anyone else it would be a betrayal of trust. I'm just waiting for the day when a CD-R copy of this comes up on ebay. Then the shit will hit the fan. Please change your attitude Paulo and remember who you are. You have no rights to demand anything from anyone. Don't screw this up for the rest of us. With very best regards. This made me really furious. You might have noticed ;-) Jon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 02:08:37 EST From: Spencer2424@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: FEVER PITCH SOUNDTRACK Robin, Very good points. And since no one else seems to be weighing in on this subject (and I'm rather bored and lonely on this particular Friday night), I'll just continue the discussion with a few more thoughts. Some responses to your response: Robin writes: The Internet is a testing ground (or more like a minefield!) for artists, I think, for exploring publicity and distribution possibilities, with the risk constantly being run of having rights violated. For me personally it isn't a matter of debate at all, speaking as an artist. The rights of people who intend to make a living based on their creative and artistic talent have routinely been trodden on. The arts, and artists, are in fact simultaneously worshipped and villified in western civilization. I'm sure there are many darkly underlying psychological reasons this has come about (and we should all have a sleepover some night & sit up discussing it over vermouth and clove cigarettes) but that's me going off on a tangent.. CC babble: Quite true; the artists and musicians have seldom been respected or financial compensated in proportion to their overwhelming importance to the very fabric of western civilization. The same might be said of teachers; another sadly underpaid and oft villified group. Robin writes: Anyway one of the points I wanted to bring up has to do with the artist's intent. It was a special treat for us to have the chance to hear this tape that Thomas so generously took time to restore and offer to us to hear at christmastime. But... who knows what his intent may be where this music is concerned? You mention wanting an album... perhaps he intends to use some of the material from these pieces he wrote and recorded years ago, to create an album one day. CC babble: Quite true; I have no idea what plans Thomas may have for this piece of music. And if he wants to work it into a new release somehow, that's great! Go Thomas! I'll run out to Borders and buy it the day it hits the shelves! Robin writes: I'm probably not explaining myself very well but I just feel very strongly that nothing an artist does should be taken for granted as something that's intended for distribution. The Fever Pitch file was a special thing he allowed Alloy members at that time to hear, however it doesn't belong to us, & it isn't meant to be given out to all fans everywhere. It was not a product but an *event*. CC babble: I like your categorization of the Fever Pitch release as an "event", rather than product. And I agree that artists should be able to control what elements of their work are released to the public. But the reality of the internet is that it is fundamentally geared towards the dissemination of information, be it images, words, viruses, or (in this case) music. And the extent of that dissemination is generally unpredicable, despite whatever controls the originator may put on it. And don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to defend acts of plagerism, theft or other misuse of intellectual property. I'm merely suggesting that putting something out on the internet is inherently risky, if one's intention is to maintain complete control of that data. So if you're going to play in that arena, you should factor that in, and be prepared for the distinct possibility of things spinning out of your control. Robin writes: The artist's intent cannot be guessed until he tells us what it is. It isn't a finished product until he says so. It's his, and his alone, purely and simply. The fan has no say in it whatsoever. CC babble: I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. After all, an artist does not exist in a vacuum. And some artists at quite interactive. I'm thinking of someone along the lines of Laurie Anderson, who's work is very much a reflection of whatever she's experiencing day to day, week to week. Besides, I've been creating art, music and design for most of my adult life. And I've found that my "intent" for a given piece is more of a starting point that a definitive end. Things often take on a life of their own, swerving and swaying and ending up at a place completely different from what I originally envisioned. And even then, I always love hearing what other people think of it, without my trying to steer their reactions. Because I feel like there are so many layers to any sort of artistic creation, it's nearly impossible for one person (even the artist) to really see it from all angles. And sometimes, people (or for those lucky few, "fans") will point out connections or similarities that are quite valid, but I totally missed them. Sometimes it's good; a nice element I'd overlooked. And sometimes it's more like "Oh my God - you're right. I should just throw it in the dumpster right now." The joys of being an artist. Blah blah blah blah. Back to Robin: Robin writes: It's my personal belief hat a fan should try to be a truly supportive influence for the artist he/she admires, to help the artist continue to do his work with some feeling of security. It's rough enough going for artists. To have a network of understanding and supportive fans is quite a blessing. To have people tearing each other and even the artist apart to try to get their hands on some kind of "product" to collect strikes me as ghoulish and sick. My own two cents worth I suppose. But since the discussion has started, that's that said anyway. CC babble: Yeah, there is something kind of perverse about the quest for "collectibles" and other commercial items tied to an artist. But you must admit, the music industry has done its part to encourage this sort of behaviour. All these "limited edition" pressings; putting "extra" tracks on a specific format or release that is hard to find; deleting singles or albums because it gives them some sort of marketing angle by which to bilk more money out of consumers...it all tends to put the focus on the product, not on the artist, or the music contained on the artist's release. And I will say, just in my own defense, that I personally collect LP's and singles mostly because I enjoy seeing what sort of graphic interpretations various musicians and artists have come up with for the songs. And Thomas has always had wonderful artwork for his music. So of course, I'd like to have them! They're beautiful pieces of commercial graphic design, and sometimes provide a different insight into the music itself. And I must say, that's one thing I don't much like about the current direction of the music business. Once you reduce the music to a mere digital download, all that package design and graphic design seems quite unnecessary. Perhaps virtual equivalents will come back eventually, as software and computer advances make it easier to create and distribute digital images and annimation. But for now, it's just another blow to what used to be a sort of sacred rite: going down to the corner record store, and physically picking up the latest release by your favorite artist. Holding it in your hands, looking at the liner notes, and anticipating what they might up to on this new thing you've discovered. At least, I think that was important. But it doesn't really mean much in terms of the bottom line for the record companies, so out the door it goes. Anyway, sorry to go on and on. I guess I need a life, eh? I'll just go back into silent running mode for a while, and stop cluttering up the Alloy-waves with this stuff. See you all later! - - Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 02:55:52 -0500 From: "Ian Gifford" Subject: Re: Alloy: FEVER PITCH SOUNDTRACK Forgive me please... this could take a minute or two ;) When I was a kid I played music in a very LARGE band from age 8. We travelled all over and people cheered and yelled and it was fun all around. I made tons of friends and got to listen to all kinds of music all the time. I did that till age 12. At age 14 I was in the high school bands and a basement band or two covering Judas Priest, Led Zeppelin and Jimi Hendrix (all the kids thought I sang exactly like him... though of course I was 5'7" and just over 100lbs. .... and white... and a drummer (who eventually played with a dozen other bands and still sometimes sounds just like Jimi Hendrix)... Essentially... I wanted to make it big in ROCK AND ROLL. (but then....) Two Years ago I created a project for family and friends that I recorded, produced, arranged and packaged. If I was to sell each copy of that project at $20.00 I would still have not broken even. I didn't care of course. 30 - 40 copies were made under a strict deadline (Christmas Eve was when each person had to get their copy) and I started in late november. I gathered the musicians, found digital recording equipment that i could use, "hired on" a few musicians and put ideas to paper. I spent 4 weeks planning songs, recording and recording and mixing over and over. Every night after work was a few more hours on this project... On the computer creating graphics... On the computer doing charts... On the recorder listening and listening. I stressed over the packaging and I stressed over where the money would come from... but it came. By the end of it all I had a package that I was MORE than proud of. 30 people have told me how much they appreciated that gift that me and my friends gave to them that Christmas... Two really hit home. 1) My dad is a feisty old scot that will rarely break from tradition (or his memory of it at the moment ;) When I gave him the wrapped up disc and asked him to open it on Christmas eve, he told me "Christmas presents get opened on Christmas day" so I informed him that I took care of that already and got him a Christmas gift and that this was a "Christmas eve present". He grumbled and held out. By this time my sister was mad and told him he'd better open or she was taking the presents that she got for him back. He liked that one so he opened it. The reaction that my dad had when he opened it is one that I will never forget. He disappeared 5 minutes later and I was told that he was upstairs looking for a CD player. I WAS IN SHOCK. That night he played it 3 times before we all retired for the night. I love thinking about that grin that was on his face. I knew that he was truly proud of me. 2) My younger sister pretty muched watched me go through each step of that project (and yes it was part of HER Christmas gift too). All the way through it she let me know how much she liked the work that I was doing and how good a thing it was. She was good for keeping my focus on it, as was her husband. (I was staying with them at the time) Just after Christmas we were sitting talking about the holidays and my sister commented on my dad's reaction to the gift. Then she turned a little more serious and proposed that with my talents I should be making much money and such and be "successful". I told her that I could never feel more successful in my life. She argued that success was about having all that you want and being happy and comfortable. I had to remind her that I was a fairly happy guy and that I couldn't even think of one material item that I could want (except maybe a chromatic tuner :) and that each persons vision of success will vary. With that project I feel success from the knowledge that my friends and family got to witness and own one of my better pieces of work that I have ever done to date. I see it as sort of a BIG gift to an exclusive group of people that I wanted to share that time and love and effort with. (sound familiar?) With every hour I put into that project, I knew the list that I wanted to share it with. There were just enough copies printed for all of them. There has since been interest expressed by others who would like to have a copy of that project, that I have had to deny, but ensure them that there will be another with them in mind. Everyone of those people had been in my life for some time (and some hard times at that) and shared with me a piece of themselves when I needed it most and I had to find a special way to express that to them. I know that in the end I did just that... Their responses showed me that. So after all of my rock and roll dreams, here I am a folkie with a day job. I hope to some day soon perform at the local folk festival and have some fun jamming with other fine musicians. Till then I manage a stage at that festival and promote concerts and host a radio show. I reached the best level of success when my dad hugged me hard and said "Thank you son, this is great". This past Christams when Thomas shared his special gift with us, I wondered why he would go to the trouble that he did to do that for us. Then I remembered.... Thank you Thomas. Ian > > >Craig writes: > > Hmmm...this is an interesting debate. And I agree with you completely >Robin, > > but it is a rather intriguing situation in terms of artistic rights and > > consumer desires. Unlike the Napster situation, the Fever Pitch >recordings > > are not commercially available, regardless of how much money you might >care > > to spend. And it's not really a bootleg situation either, as the music >was > > recorded and released by the artist himself. > >The Internet is a testing ground (or more like a minefield!) for artists, I >think, for exploring publicity and distribution possibilities, with the >risk >constantly being run of having rights violated. For me personally it isn't >a matter of debate at all, speaking as an artist. The rights of people who >intend to make a living based on their creative and artistic talent have >routinely been trodden on. The arts, and artists, are in fact >simultaneously worshipped and villified in western civilization. I'm sure >there are many darkly underlying psychological reasons this has come about >(and we should all have a sleepover some night & sit up discussing it over >vermouth and clove cigarettes) but that's me going off on a tangent.. > >Anyway one of the points I wanted to bring up has to do with the artist's >intent. It was a special treat for us to have the chance to hear this tape >that Thomas so generously took time to restore and offer to us to hear at >christmastime. But... who knows what his intent may be where this music is >concerned? You mention wanting an album... perhaps he intends to use some >of the material from these pieces he wrote and recorded years ago, to >create >an album one day. I'm probably not explaining myself very well but I just >feel very strongly that nothing an artist does should be taken for granted >as something that's intended for distribution. The Fever Pitch file was a >special thing he allowed Alloy members at that time to hear, however it >doesn't belong to us, & it isn't meant to be given out to all fans >everywhere. It was not a product but an *event*. > >The artist's intent cannot be guessed until he tells us what it is. It >isn't a finished product until he says so. It's his, and his alone, purely >and simply. The fan has no say in it whatsoever. It's my personal belief >that a fan should try to be a truly supportive influence for the artist >he/she admires, to help the artist continue to do his work with some >feeling >of security. It's rough enough going for artists. To have a network of >understanding and supportive fans is quite a blessing. To have people >tearing each other and even the artist apart to try to get their hands on >some kind of "product" to collect strikes me as ghoulish and sick. My own >two cents worth I suppose. But since the discussion has started, that's >that said anyway. > >Robin T ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:33:10 -0500 From: "Robin" Subject: Re: Alloy: FEVER PITCH SOUNDTRACK - ----- Original Message ----- From: > Robin writes: > The artist's intent cannot be guessed until he tells us what it is. It > isn't a finished product until he says so. It's his, and his alone, purely > and simply. The fan has no say in it whatsoever. > > CC babble: > I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. After all, an artist does not exist > in a vacuum. And some artists at quite interactive. I'm thinking of someone > along the lines of Laurie Anderson, who's work is very much a reflection of > whatever she's experiencing day to day, week to week. Besides, I've been > creating art, music and design for most of my adult life. And I've found > that my "intent" for a given piece is more of a starting point that a > definitive end. Things often take on a life of their own, swerving and > swaying and ending up at a place completely different from what I originally > envisioned. And even then, I always love hearing what other people think of > it, without my trying to steer their reactions. Because I feel like there > are so many layers to any sort of artistic creation, it's nearly impossible > for one person (even the artist) to really see it from all angles. And > sometimes, people (or for those lucky few, "fans") will point out connections > or similarities that are quite valid, but I totally missed them. Sometimes > it's good; a nice element I'd overlooked. And sometimes it's more like "Oh > my God - you're right. I should just throw it in the dumpster right now." > The joys of being an artist. Craig, I agree it's nice to get feedback. What I meant by "the fan having no say" has to do with the artist's final intent with and ownership of the piece. For instance if you were to sit in at the recording studio with Thomas, you could chat all you want about what he was doing & it could be a really helpful, creatively inspiring conversation... but you couldn't say the material is ready for public release until *he* says it is.... because it's his. & as for collecting things, I definitely don't mean to say that collecting is bad!! In fact most collecting of artist's releases, rarities, interviews, etc is very cool & supportive of the artist in terms of morale, I'm sure (in the case of fans trading rarities/collectables which are no longer financially connected with the artist) But what I meant is that the artist's wishes and intent should be respected in this as well & if there's something the artist strongly objects to, such as sharing files via a public forum such as Napster, or emailing files around, and he has said so in no uncertain terms, then it's of course harmful & wrong to do it anyway. The idea of people taking the artist's personal belongings (such as a painter's sketchbook which isn't meant as a final collection of work) and publishing/distributing it even while the artist is standing on the sidelines saying he doesn't want this happening, simply comes across to me as a violation of rights of the artist, both as an artist and a person! Thanks for your comments Craig! it's nice to be able to have a discussion of such things and have our opinions heard :) xxxx Robin T ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 16:58:48 -0300 From: "PAULO GONZALEZ" Subject: Alloy: to jon jonathan chiddick@ nokia wrote: You might have noticedPlease change your attitude Paulo and remember who you are. You have no rights to demand anything from anyone. Don't screw this up for the rest of us. With very best regards. This made me really furious - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 7:36 AM Subject: Alloy: another delurk-relurk... I am sorry for causing you so much fury and worry. You said in your e-mail that I should not demand anything from Thomas Dolby. I want to make clear that I didn't demand anything from anyone. You used that word, I didn't. I asked (I said "ask" not "demand"), if someone could e-mail me Fever Pitch. And everybody at Alloy explained to me that in respect to Thomas Dolby's feelings they would not do it, and I understand it all the reasons. And that's all. In your words: "Don't screw this up for the rest of us." I am glad to dissapoint you, but I don't have that power in my hands. If something is screwed, you should scan your own mind and atitude towards people or life. But if my attitude made you so furious to the point of taking the trouble to write such a rude e-mail, then I suggest to you to find a doctor because if little problems likes this leaves you this way, I am afraid of what you might do with real life problems. Be careful, fanaticism kills. Paulo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 17:56:57 -0300 From: "PAULO GONZALEZ" Subject: [none] > jonathan chiddick@ nokia wrote: > > You might have noticedPlease change your attitude Paulo and remember who you > are. You have no > rights to demand anything from anyone. > Don't screw this up for the rest of us. > With very best regards. This made me really furious > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 7:36 AM > Subject: Alloy: another delurk-relurk... > > > > I am sorry for causing you so much fury and worry. You said in your e-mail > that I should not demand anything from Thomas Dolby. I want to make clear > that I didn't demand anything from anyone. You used that word, I didn't. I > asked (I said "ask" not "demand"), if someone could e-mail me Fever Pitch. > And everybody at Alloy explained to me that in respect to Thomas Dolby's > feelings they would not do it, and I understand it all the reasons. And > that's all. > > In your words: "Don't screw this up for the rest of us." > > I am glad to dissapoint you, but I don't have that power in my hands. If > something is screwed, you should scan your own mind and atitude towards > people or > life. > > But if my attitude made you so furious to the point of taking > the trouble to write such a rude e-mail, then I suggest to you to find a > doctor because if little problems likes this leaves you this way, I am > afraid of what you might do with real life problems. Be careful, fanaticism > kills. > > Paulo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 19:53:34 -0500 From: "Ian Gifford" Subject: Alloy: Re: alloy: Beatnik site hi all... I don't know who was responsible for forwarding my message off to Beatnik, but I got a note From Will who has promised to help me figure the problem out. So thanks to whomever it was.... I love ya! Ian _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 23:54:10 -0500 From: "Robin" Subject: Re: Alloy: to jon Paulo wrote: > I am sorry for causing you so much fury and worry. You said in your e-mail > that I should not demand anything from Thomas Dolby. I want to make clear > that I didn't demand anything from anyone. You used that word, I didn't. I > asked (I said "ask" not "demand"), if someone could e-mail me Fever Pitch. > And everybody at Alloy explained to me that in respect to Thomas Dolby's > feelings they would not do it, and I understand it all the reasons. And > that's all. > Thank you, Paulo, for understanding this. > In your words: "Don't screw this up for the rest of us." > I am glad to dissapoint you, but I don't have that power in my hands. If > something is screwed, you should scan your own mind and atitude towards > people or life. I can't speak for everyone, but I have to say I personally found it truly depressing that someone who thinks of themselves as a fan would so adamantly disrespect the wishes of the artist himself. "Power" does indeed rest with each of us to maintain our sense of personal decency and respect toward others, or else risk screwing things up for the entire community. As for Alloy on the whole, its originator Paul Baily and myself have long admired the community that has developed here, thanks to each and every one of Alloy's individual members. There is power in this too of course. I always respect people for speaking their minds and for being honest and passionate about the things they believe in. But frankly in my time managing this list, I've never come across anyone who would have come in as a new memebr and so willingly attempted to step all over the rights of the very artist they profess to admire. Thomas himself has always been incredibly respectful and caring toward his fans, and, it was very selfless and generous of him to go to the trouble and effort to send out that piece of music for us to hear. As you can imagine, it could easily have made Thomas develop second thoughts about having released this music at all if he was inspired (by your posts/requests.. again that individual power) to believe that his faith and trust in people who call themselves fans might be so casually and cruelly abused. > But if my attitude made you so furious to the point of taking > the trouble to write such a rude e-mail, then I suggest to you to find a > doctor because if little problems likes this leaves you this way, I am > afraid of what you might do with real life problems. Be careful, fanaticism > kills. The internet is real life... there are real people on the other end of the messages we send via this list. Your attempt to get the file at all costs came across as a direct threat to the long-established, trusting relationship Thomas and his fans have developed here, so you can hardly blame people for reacting strongly! In any case, if you'd like to stay with us and lurk a bit, it could give you a better view of how things go around here, and the level of respect we all feel toward Thomas and his work. Robin T ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V6 #55 **************************