From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V5 #294 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Wednesday, December 6 2000 Volume 05 : Number 294 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Alloy: my 2c worth... [jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com] Re: Alloy: my 2c worth... [Robin Thurlow ] Alloy: Get a life you sad looser : - ( ha ha ha ) ["Tim Hudson" ] Re: Alloy: Get a life you sad looser : - ( ha ha ha ) [Robin Thurlow ] Re: Alloy: RE: Atari ST's remembered fondly ... [Keys35@aol.com] Alloy: Politics (OT) [Robyn Moore ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:08:48 +0200 From: jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com Subject: Alloy: my 2c worth... Well well well. In a country of millions and millions of people when the presidential vote is miraculously separated by only a couple of hundred votes and with 14 thousand left uncounted in the final state the judicial system decides that the election should be decided without counting those outstanding ballots. What a democracy. It seems that some peoples rights are more equal than others. Congratulations! You've managed to elect a president of extremely dubious character again. (and one that didn't even win the popular vote either) What a world we live in. 'stupid or what. Wouldn't it be fun if the electoral college votes were cast now on personal preference and Gore would win afterall! Jon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 09:40:03 -0500 From: Robin Thurlow Subject: Re: Alloy: my 2c worth... jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com wrote: > > Well well well. > In a country of millions and millions of people when the presidential vote > is miraculously separated by only a couple of hundred votes and with 14 > thousand left uncounted in the final state the judicial system decides that > the election should be decided without counting those outstanding ballots. The news have been saying it's happened before in our history, that a presidential race has been this close - it's very strange. I hope it doesn't become a trend though. The whole thing has made me tired! One thing I wish is that simply more people had gone out to VOTE on election day, but the sad part is, the weight of the 'system' here makes a lot of people feel their vote won't make a difference anyway. I'm still not sure if this 'recount' thing will convince people otherwise or only reinforce their feelings of hopelessness about voting. Another factor that's been interesting me about this is the relation of the stock market to the election results. According to Wall Street reports, investors are 'holding off' until the election is decided before continuing trading. I'm wondering what difference it makes? Is it a matter of our national interests being different according to which party are in charge? Trying to understand the bigger picture! Robin T ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 16:19:30 +0000 From: "Tim Hudson" Subject: Alloy: Get a life you sad looser : - ( ha ha ha ) Hi Quick vote: What is the lyrically the strangest Dolby composition apart from 'May the cube be with you?'? and the sexiest / most romantic? Perhaps we should do this properly and make a decent questionnaire with sensible categories? but then again perhaps I should just get a life? No dont tell me - I know already. p.s. Robin will reply and tell me you've all 'done that already' years ago in which case I can call you lot sadder than me because you thought of it first !!! - -- Tim Hudson tim_hudson@zdnetonebox.com - email ___________________________________________________________________ To get your own FREE ZDNet Onebox - FREE voicemail, email, and fax, all in one place - sign up today at http://www.zdnetonebox.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 09:18:51 -0800 (PST) From: Elaine Linstruth Subject: Re: Alloy: my 2c worth... On Tue, 5 Dec 2000 jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com wrote: > Well well well. > In a country of millions and millions of people when the presidential vote > is miraculously separated by only a couple of hundred votes and with 14 > thousand left uncounted in the final state the judicial system decides that > the election should be decided without counting those outstanding ballots. The ballots are not 'left uncounted.' They ran through the machines two times and came up unreadable for that particular office. I love how this mantra has suddenly become 'fact' for so many people. As an example, evidently there is a large segment that votes for other things but not president; either way, the machine registers either a no-vote or an over-vote (more than one person's name was punched for the same office.) The ballots HAVE been counted. This idea of looking at ballots and announcing votes when the machine did not thoroughly register the actual punch bothers me a lot. The folks whose votes were underrepresented in any way have a serious beef with their local elected officials and system. I suggest they get it together for future elections. This one's over. What would Jon have us do, hand-scrutinize every ballot in these three liberal counties, but none of the conservative ones? In THIS close state but not in any of the other (at least) four? Not to mention that this particular voting system is meant to be read by machine and not by people. The ballots are compromised every time they're handled by human hands. At this point, they have been messed with so much, the election law experts are saying there is absolutely no way we will ever know exactly how many votes were cast for anybody in south FL counties. > What a democracy. It seems that some peoples rights are more equal than > others. Yeah. Some of us are waiting to hear when our state will be rerun, and hand-counted, as well. These same problems occur in every county in the USA. By the way, I've already pointed out that we are not a democracy. > Congratulations! You've managed to elect a president of extremely dubious > character again. (and one that didn't even win the popular vote either) Well, I can't argue with that one. :-) Except to say that in our system, the winner of the popular vote gets nothing more than bragging rights. (Which if I'm sure of nothing else in this election, he will never let us forget.) When the popular vote and electoral college counts equal the same person, great. When not, that's just the way it goes. Besides, as you put it, millions and millions of votes cast, vs. 200-some-odd-thousand "more" doesn't exactly make a mandate, anyway. I don't understand why people are willing to accept the concept of "statistical tie" and "+/- margin of error" and yet want to complain and argue for dropping these ideas, when it comes to COUNTING EVERY BALLOT. I mean, come on. > What a world we live in. 'stupid or what. > Wouldn't it be fun if the electoral college votes were cast now on personal > preference and Gore would win afterall! Sure, okay. And then the USA would be a completely different country in every way that mattered to us. Electoral college votes are not cast on "personal preference" anyhow. > Jon With regard to the lament about people thinking their votes don't count, Robin.. I wonder how much different this would be if more people did get out and vote. I understand that nearly half the eligible people didn't even bother. Another thing -- somebody made a point about how it's easy to request an absentee ballot, and then go to the polls on election day as well. It is easy to do that, but one of the reasons it takes so long to count absentee ballots is they have to run a check for just such a thing. At least that's what this report I saw showed, I don't have any personal first-hand knowledge of absentee vote-counting. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 13:08:33 -0500 From: Robin Thurlow Subject: Re: Alloy: Get a life you sad looser : - ( ha ha ha ) Tim Hudson wrote: > Quick vote: What is the lyrically the strangest Dolby composition apart > from 'May the cube be with you?'? > and the sexiest / most romantic? > Perhaps we should do this properly and make a decent questionnaire with > sensible categories? I really like this idea! > p.s. Robin will reply and tell me you've all 'done that already' years > ago In fact, I don't think we have... though we did once do "Dolby Framed" which I thought was really cool (everyone telling which music records or cds were on either side of our Dolby ones at home, & if they're on small shelves, which music is above and below as well. It revealed a very eclectic mix of tastes amongst Alloy members) Tim, I'm going home tonight to find the strangest/sexiest/most romantic Dolby lyrics I can think of. Though for me, they may all be the same lyric!! Robin T who dares not think of such things at work... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 13:59:18 -0800 From: Robyn Moore Subject: Re: Alloy: Gothic At 20:12 2000.11.29, you wrote: >Robb, I almost forgot: Gothic on DVD at Amazon.com... $21 bucks! If you >mean strictly audio CD, I don't see it there. (Didn't even know such an >animal existed, actually..) It sure does. In fact, it's the CD I bought a player for. It's pretty hard to find, though. However, I was just over at the Tower Records website, and they're willing to special-order it, which means they'll look for it for 45 days before considering it a lost cause. Robyn M @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.wiccans.net/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 17:57:25 EST From: Keys35@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: RE: Atari ST's remembered fondly ... I had to come out of lurk mose and comment on the Atari ST. I always used one for MIDI sequencing. I used the Creator/Notator software. I still would use it - but I need a new mouse. They are hard to find now. I found a place that I could order one - but didn't, and forget where that is now. JiM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 15:03:06 -0800 From: Robyn Moore Subject: Alloy: Politics (OT) I was going to stay out of this one, since it's obvious that I'm -way- too liberal for this list, but I didn't want Jonathan to think he was the only one here less than thrilled about the way things are shaking out. My opinions, for the record - 1) I voted for Nader. I tried to vote for Gore, but I just couldn't get past his pro-censorship positions regarding the media. Bush was never an option. 2) I don't believe all the votes were fairly counted. And yes, I do believe -all- the counties and absentee ballots should be re-counted. (Let's not even get into the allegations of voter intimidation put forth by the US and foreign press.) 3) Katherine Harris should have excused herself due to obvious bias. (not an unpopular opinion, even the local Republican bigwigs are saying this, since it makes the party look bad.) 4) I'm well aware of the Electoral College, and none too thrilled about it. IMO, it's still a popularity contest, since the candidates kiss up to the states with the most votes. 5) The idea that Jesse Jackson is a Democratic lapdog is laughable. He does what he does for his own reasons, and a significant portion of Democrats consider him an embarrassment. 6) The low voter turnout is a national disgrace. Even if one doesn't like the candidates, there's always some reason or another to vote. (My personal favourite - our foremothers fought too hard for womens' right to vote for me to waste it by not voting.) 7) It's too late for a happy ending. No matter which candidate ends up in office, about half the voting populace will believe he stole the election. And just in case anyone's wondering, I'm not a Democrat, I'm an Independent. I have some non-liberal opinions (for instance, I'm pro gun and pro death penalty), but as a member of a minority religion, I don't feel comfortable voting for Republicans until their leadership stops kissing up to the Religious Right. Okay, I'm done mouthing off - you may proceed to pillory me at will. Robyn M @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.wiccans.net/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V5 #294 ***************************