From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V5 #215 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Tuesday, September 5 2000 Volume 05 : Number 215 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Alloy: The Winter Boys [jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com] Alloy: The Winter Boys [jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com] Alloy: The Winter Boys [jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com] Alloy: Submarines... [jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com] Alloy: The Winter Boys [jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com] Alloy: Submarines... [jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com] Alloy: Submarines [Barbara Cohen ] [none] [jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com] Alloy: Re: Repetitive Heavy Water [Slarvibarglhee Re: Alloy: Song of the Week - One of our Submarines [Jon > > >Drinking heavy water from a stone > > > > Can anyone explain that line? I've always wondered about it... Hi all, 'interesting this one isn't it. I have always thought of 'One of our submarines' being set in WWI. I don't really know why. I think that maybe it is the atmosphere of the song playing to tradition and history rather than new-tech' and the future. If this were true then there would be no reactor as the diesel-electric - or even diesel - age would be more fitting. I think all the chemical hypothesis is purely coincidental. Now I think about it the song calls to 'the winter boys' - cold-war maybe? I hadn't though of that before. 'freezing in their spam-tins'; now that IS a reference to WWII. It is one of my favourites but one that I have not given much thought to in a lyrical sense. - - I just checked the inner sleeve for the lyrics and there are several references to history and typical Dolby days-gone-by. Above the lyrics is an old black and white photograph of a submarine crew and they are definitely pre-nuclear. This was written around the same time as 'Cloudburst at Shingle Street' and that is almost certainly a WWII reference. I think that our illustrious leader wasn't being so abstract really. I would love to hear his explanation but I'm sure that we never will. My vote goes to Melissa for her 'drinking heavy water from a stone' theory. It is a comfortable fit. (re-lurk) Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 17:14:47 +0300 From: jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com Subject: Alloy: The Winter Boys > Re: Alloy: Song of the Week - One of our Submarines [Jon > > >Drinking heavy water from a stone > > > > Can anyone explain that line? I've always wondered about it... Hi all, 'interesting this one isn't it. I have always thought of 'One of our submarines' being set in WWI. I don't really know why. I think that maybe it is the atmosphere of the song playing to tradition and history rather than new-tech' and the future. If this were true then there would be no reactor as the diesel-electric - or even diesel - age would be more fitting. I think all the chemical hypothesis is purely coincidental. Now I think about it the song calls to 'the winter boys' - cold-war maybe? I hadn't though of that before. 'freezing in their spam-tins'; now that IS a reference to WWII. It is one of my favourites but one that I have not given much thought to in a lyrical sense. - - I just checked the inner sleeve for the lyrics and there are several references to history and typical Dolby days-gone-by. Above the lyrics is an old black and white photograph of a submarine crew and they are definitely pre-nuclear. This was written around the same time as 'Cloudburst at Shingle Street' and that is almost certainly a WWII reference. I think that our illustrious leader wasn't being so abstract really. I would love to hear his explanation but I'm sure that we never will. My vote goes to Melissa for her 'drinking heavy water from a stone' theory. It is a comfortable fit. (re-lurk) Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 17:13:54 +0300 From: jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com Subject: Alloy: The Winter Boys > Re: Alloy: Song of the Week - One of our Submarines [Jon > > >Drinking heavy water from a stone > > > > Can anyone explain that line? I've always wondered about it... Hi all, 'interesting this one isn't it. I have always thought of 'One of our submarines' being set in WWI. I don't really know why. I think that maybe it is the atmosphere of the song playing to tradition and history rather than new-tech' and the future. If this were true then there would be no reactor as the diesel-electric - or even diesel - age would be more fitting. I think all the chemical hypothesis is purely coincidental. Now I think about it the song calls to 'the winter boys' - cold-war maybe? I hadn't though of that before. 'freezing in their spam-tins'; now that IS a reference to WWII. It is one of my favourites but one that I have not given much thought to in a lyrical sense. - - I just checked the inner sleeve for the lyrics and there are several references to history and typical Dolby days-gone-by. Above the lyrics is an old black and white photograph of a submarine crew and they are definitely pre-nuclear. This was written around the same time as 'Cloudburst at Shingle Street' and that is almost certainly a WWII reference. I think that our illustrious leader wasn't being so abstract really. I would love to hear his explanation but I'm sure that we never will. My vote goes to Melissa for her 'drinking heavy water from a stone' theory. It is a comfortable fit. (re-lurk) Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 17:31:50 +0300 From: jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com Subject: Alloy: Submarines... Re: Alloy: Song of the Week - One of our Submarines [Jon > > >Drinking heavy water from a stone > > > > Can anyone explain that line? I've always wondered about it... Hi all, 'interesting this one isn't it. I have always thought of 'One of our submarines' being set in WWI. I don't really know why. I think that maybe it is the atmosphere of the song playing to tradition and history rather than new-tech' and the future. If this were true then there would be no reactor as the diesel-electric - or even diesel - age would be more fitting. I think all the chemical hypothesis is purely coincidental. Now I think about it the song calls to 'the winter boys' - cold-war maybe? I hadn't though of that before. 'freezing in their spam-tins'; now that IS a reference to WWII. It is one of my favourites but one that I have not given much thought to in a lyrical sense. - - I just checked the inner sleeve for the lyrics and there are several references to history and typical Dolby days-gone-by. Above the lyrics is an old black and white photograph of a submarine crew and they are definitely pre-nuclear. This was written around the same time as 'Cloudburst at Shingle Street' and that is almost certainly a WWII reference. I think that our illustrious leader wasn't being so abstract really. I would love to hear his explanation but I'm sure that we never will. My vote goes to Melissa for her 'drinking heavy water from a stone' theory. It is a comfortable fit. (re-lurk) Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 17:30:12 +0300 From: jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com Subject: Alloy: The Winter Boys > Re: Alloy: Song of the Week - One of our Submarines [Jon > > >Drinking heavy water from a stone > > > > Can anyone explain that line? I've always wondered about it... Hi all, 'interesting this one isn't it. I have always thought of 'One of our submarines' being set in WWI. I don't really know why. I think that maybe it is the atmosphere of the song playing to tradition and history rather than new-tech' and the future. If this were true then there would be no reactor as the diesel-electric - or even diesel - age would be more fitting. I think all the chemical hypothesis is purely coincidental. Now I think about it the song calls to 'the winter boys' - cold-war maybe? I hadn't though of that before. 'freezing in their spam-tins'; now that IS a reference to WWII. It is one of my favourites but one that I have not given much thought to in a lyrical sense. - - I just checked the inner sleeve for the lyrics and there are several references to history and typical Dolby days-gone-by. Above the lyrics is an old black and white photograph of a submarine crew and they are definitely pre-nuclear. This was written around the same time as 'Cloudburst at Shingle Street' and that is almost certainly a WWII reference. I think that our illustrious leader wasn't being so abstract really. I would love to hear his explanation but I'm sure that we never will. My vote goes to Melissa for her 'drinking heavy water from a stone' theory. It is a comfortable fit. (re-lurk) Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 17:31:18 +0300 From: jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com Subject: Alloy: Submarines... Re: Alloy: Song of the Week - One of our Submarines [Jon > > >Drinking heavy water from a stone > > > > Can anyone explain that line? I've always wondered about it... Hi all, 'interesting this one isn't it. I have always thought of 'One of our submarines' being set in WWI. I don't really know why. I think that maybe it is the atmosphere of the song playing to tradition and history rather than new-tech' and the future. If this were true then there would be no reactor as the diesel-electric - or even diesel - age would be more fitting. I think all the chemical hypothesis is purely coincidental. Now I think about it the song calls to 'the winter boys' - cold-war maybe? I hadn't though of that before. 'freezing in their spam-tins'; now that IS a reference to WWII. It is one of my favourites but one that I have not given much thought to in a lyrical sense. - - I just checked the inner sleeve for the lyrics and there are several references to history and typical Dolby days-gone-by. Above the lyrics is an old black and white photograph of a submarine crew and they are definitely pre-nuclear. This was written around the same time as 'Cloudburst at Shingle Street' and that is almost certainly a WWII reference. I think that our illustrious leader wasn't being so abstract really. I would love to hear his explanation but I'm sure that we never will. My vote goes to Melissa for her 'drinking heavy water from a stone' theory. It is a comfortable fit. (re-lurk) Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 12:28:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Alloy: Submarines Submarines has always been my fave TMDR song by far. I'm pleased to hear everyone's takes on it and to see lots of other people like it too! I won't wax fanatic, but I could, about this song. Maybe because it was on the first TMDR album I ever had. You know, kind of like which Dr. Who is your favorite? It's always the first one you saw on TV :) Anyway, the "drinking heavy water" discussion tickled me especially, as it was the line that really jumped out at me in my first listening! The geek I was, I knew what deuterated water was back then, and connected it with the sub reactor, and made the "blood from a stone" connection too, but never truly figured out what it meant all together (and truthfully I like it that way, just suggestive...). I have the lyrics in an old book of quotes, and I have to sheepishly admit I heard it as "One of our submarines is missing tonight, since she ran aground on Morovia." Barbara Cohen, Lunatic University of Tennessee, Knoxville ************************************ Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 21:37:53 +0300 From: jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com Subject: [none] Re: Alloy: Song of the Week - One of our Submarines > > >Drinking heavy water from a stone > > > > Can anyone explain that line? I've always wondered about it... Hi all, 'interesting this one isn't it. I have always thought of 'One of our submarines' being set in WWI. I didn't really know why. I think that maybe it is the atmosphere of the song playing to tradition and history rather than new-tech' and the future. If this were true then there would be no reactor as the diesel-electric - or even diesel - age would be more fitting. I think all the chemical hypothesis is purely coincidental. Now I think about it the song calls to 'the winter boys' - cold-war maybe? I hadn't though of that before. 'freezing in their spam-tins'; now that IS a reference to WWII. It is one of my favourites but one that I have not given much thought to in a lyrical sense. I just seemed to have made a sub-conscious picture for myself. - - I just checked the inner sleeve for the lyrics and there are several references to history and typical Dolby-days-gone-by. Above the lyrics is an old black and white photograph of a submarine crew and they are definitely pre-nuclear. This was written around the same time as 'Cloudburst at Shingle Street' and that is almost certainly a WWII reference. I think that our illustrious leader wasn't being so abstract really. I would love to hear his explanation but I'm sure that we never will. My vote goes to Melissa for her 'drinking heavy water from a stone' theory. It is a comfortable fit. (re-lurk) Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 23:17:15 +0100 From: Slarvibarglhee Subject: Alloy: Re: Repetitive Heavy Water That's a terrible stutter on your mail server Jonathan. (As the man in the fish and chip shop said when a customer ordered fish and chips twice, 'OK, I heard you the first time.' Hope this makes sense to those non-English Alloyites). I got a total of 7 copies of your message, under two titles (and one untitled). Anyway, to the song in question. I'd never heard it at all until I bought 'The Golden Age of Video' and liked it so much I managed to copy the audio track to audio tape. At that time I don't think it was available on vinyl OR CD, though I now have it on 'Retrospectacle.' As far as the lyics are concerned, I never analysed them really. I kind of assumed that they were 'the Winter Boys' because they were based in the Baltic, and it's always winter there .... isn't it? And I had a vague recollection about the heavy water connection with nuclear power, so also took it for granted that it was a nuclear powered U boat, but couldn't understand the reference to drinking it from a stone. Unlike Barbara, I couldn't work out where it ran aground, but I didn't think it was on maneuverererers OR Morovia. Then again, I have no real idea what is meant by, 'And I can trace my history Down one generation to my home In one of our submarines.' but I never let it spoil my enjoyment of the track. I think that part of my enjoyment stems from the fact that I DID first hear it on video, whereas I already knew most of the tracks on TGAOV (I think the other exception was 'May The Cube Be With You') and I rather liked the way it was done, with a cinema screen backdrop showing footage of submarines, with Thomas and the band performing in front. The whole thing was very dynamic, and the percussionist was playing some kind of wierd electronic device with a pair of children's plastic hammers, and each time he hit it a tube would light up as well as the thing emitting a suitable noise. I can never hear it without visualising the video. Slarv jonathan.chiddick@nokia.com wrote: > Re: Alloy: Song of the Week - One of our Submarines > > > >Drinking heavy water from a stone > > > > > > Can anyone explain that line? I've always wondered about it... > > Hi all, > 'interesting this one isn't it. I have always thought of 'One of our > submarines' being set in WWI. I didn't really know why. I think that maybe > it is the atmosphere of the song playing to tradition and history rather > than new-tech' and the future. > If this were true then there would be no reactor as the diesel-electric - or > even diesel - age would be more fitting. I think all the chemical hypothesis > is purely coincidental. > > Now I think about it the song calls to 'the winter boys' - cold-war maybe? I > hadn't though of that before. 'freezing in their spam-tins'; now that IS a > reference to WWII. > > It is one of my favourites but one that I have not given much thought to in > a lyrical sense. I just seemed to have made a sub-conscious picture for > myself. > > - I just checked the inner sleeve for the lyrics and there are several > references to history and typical Dolby-days-gone-by. Above the lyrics is an > old black and white photograph of a submarine crew and they are definitely > pre-nuclear. This was written around the same time as 'Cloudburst at Shingle > Street' and that is almost certainly a WWII reference. I think that our > illustrious leader wasn't being so abstract really. I would love to hear his > explanation but I'm sure that we never will. > > My vote goes to Melissa for her 'drinking heavy water from a stone' theory. > It is a comfortable fit. > > (re-lurk) > Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 23:14:23 -0400 From: Robin Thurlow Subject: Re: Alloy: Re: Repetitive Heavy Water Believe it or not, my initial take on those lines @ age 15 was that Thomas might have been tracing his history through dreams, and that a recurring dream about a sub disaster might have caused him to feel he'd been in one in his prior lifetime. You can see that my feelings on dreams being more than just brain glitches (or Welsh rarebit!) have always been part of my general philosophy of life :) Robin T Slarvibarglhee wrote: > Then again, I > have no real idea what is meant by, > > 'And I can trace my history > Down one generation to my home > In one of our submarines.' > > but I never let it spoil my enjoyment of the track. ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V5 #215 ***************************