From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V5 #98 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Sunday, April 23 2000 Volume 05 : Number 098 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Alloy: Irish music contest [Dennis S Alexander ] Alloy: San Francisco [Dennis S Alexander ] Alloy: Joe's Cows (digital vs analog) [RThurF@aol.com] Re: Alloy: Joe's Cows (digital vs analog) [Doug Grose Subject: Alloy: Irish music contest Another message I thought went out last week... Keith told me to let you guys know how the contest went. If you didn't hear, I entered an Irish talent contest for a trip for two to Ireland and placed in the finals. I didn't win. The winner brought the house down with a very tearful rendition of a sad, tragic song, Grace. Teresa and I went the next Saturday to the victory performance. They did have me lead everyone in a sing-a-long of Star Of The County Down. Even though I didn't win, they want me in their house band. I believe the term is Ceidl Band (sp?). The General Managers are a couple from Ireland and after the finals they invited me over to their house for beer and Irish brown bread around the fireplace as they showed us pictures of their place back home and we brought in our instruments and played till 3:00 in the morning. It was a lot of fun. So, in the end, I didn't win, but I'm part of the house band! Now I'm in 4 different Irish bands! Anyone in the Denver area is more than welcome to come to LoDo and hear me with two of the bands at the Common Grounds Coffee Shop at the corner of 17th and Wazee (one block from Alloy's offical pub, Wynkoop Brewery). We play every Wednesday evening starting at 7:30. I'm usually there (except when I'm out of town gorging down expensive seafood with my co-workers!) ___________ JAMac (Dennis S. Alexander) www.dennisa.com - Nutrition/Income Opportunities "The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams" - Eleanor Roosevelt ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 23:32:09 -0600 From: Dennis S Alexander Subject: Alloy: San Francisco I thought I sent the following last week but it was still in my out-box. Well, I had a blast out there, even though I was out there on training. I went with my boss and two others who all had a great sense of humor. After training we'd go back to the hotel and have a couple of drinks, then go out for a $20-to-30-a-plate (or more) dinner plus more drinks and hors ‘d oeuvres, then back to the hotel where we had drinks till they kicked us out... all on the company tab! Even the hotel was $250 a night! We went up to San Francisco Tuesday night and went to Scoma's on the Wharf. My boss went for the $50 steak and lobster. (Darn! If I'd known!) I have a strong feeling that these people like me and even though its a brand new startup, most of the people there (including the ones I was with) have known each other for years. So I think I have a pretty good foothold in the door! Stephen, sorry I didn't call. I just didn't have time between all the drinks! But it looks like I'll be seeing you in person tomorrow, anyway! One last thing (definitely Dolby related!!!) When I was out in California, I walked into one of their support areas and written on a whiteboard was the word "Beatnik". (You can guess what emotions filled me) "Is that Beatnik as in Beatnik.com?" Yep! Aparently, Thomas' company bought the system we sell! Of course, in the back of my mind I'm thinking, "I wonder if they need any help with the system. Maybe I could do a support call, on-site for them. And maybe I could meet Thomas, while I'm there!" At the same time, I'm telling myself, 'Don't scream and shout like some crazed fan. Act mature.' Of course I still told everyone in sight about Beatnik and my relationship to it and Thomas! So cool! ___________ JAMac (Dennis S. Alexander) www.dennisa.com - Nutrition/Income Opportunities "The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams" - Eleanor Roosevelt ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 02:06:18 EDT From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Alloy: Joe's Cows (digital vs analog) I read an interview with Joe Strummer for an American entertainment mag several months ago, in which he talked about something that alarmed him. I've been wondering what everyone here might think of this, since many of you are working in the music industry (and the rest of us are avid listeners :) A journalist friend had told Joe about some farmers who'd been playing classical music for their cows off a cassette system, which was getting them a 20 per cent higher milk yield. Eight years ago, the farmers changed their music system to CD machines thinking it would be more convenient - but when they did that, the cows' milk production dropped to the same level as that of cows who heard no music at all. It took the farmers almost two years to figure out it wasn't anything in the cows' food or water, and that it was the change to CDs that did it. Joe is not a fan of digital anyway, to put it mildly... but this has made his opinion of it even lower than ever, in fact he feels civilization may actually be doomed because of this and other things like it. He thinks the change to digital delivery systems for music is causing something vital to be left out of the music itself, by virtue of the fact that digital will not recognize sounds below a certain volume, and this will subliminally affect all of us in an adverse way. Obviously it's a matter of the 'white noise' being missing from the cd version of the music that made the cows drop in milk production. All mammals find white noise incredibly comforting. It was probably never the actual music they were listening to at all that was causing the cows to produce more... but there are a lot of subtleties to music that could be lost to the new technology (though other subtleties can be brought into it, when placed in the hands of an artist!) The whole thing has had me wondering. Every time the topic of digital vs analog comes up I think of the cows. So, if I may ask all of you here, what do you think of all of this? Do you find listening to live music or record/tapes more comforting or satisfying than listening to CDs, or is it the other way around for you? Is digital music simply a completely new medium for musicians, with its own 'soul', just as analog has? The whole thing reminds me of the debate in the 80's about synthesizer music being stereotyped as 'soulless', when in fact it's simply another creative medium to work within - very soulful indeed when in the right hands. There is a knee-jerk reaction to anything that's new, especially when it involves computers... except, then I keep remembering the cows.... have I been dwelling on this a little too much lately? :) Robin T "Everything in Britain is switching over to digital television. They're not even going to broadcast analog television after the year 2006. We're so done for over there!" - -Joe Strummer, interview, Steppin' Out magazine December 1999 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 11:44:25 -0400 From: Doug Grose Subject: Re: Alloy: Joe's Cows (digital vs analog) RThurF@aol.com wrote: > > It took the farmers almost two years to > figure out it wasn't anything in the cows' food or water, and that it was the > change to CDs that did it. This is a really interesting question, because it is much more complex than it appears on the surface. The variables are far less obvious than they would appear to be. First, the anecdotal nature of the cows story makes this a very unscientific "study" and fails to address such issues as: the selection of material... Was the CD composed of exactly the same music in the same order as the cassettes had been? A change of repertoire might just as readily put the cows off their production. distortion levels... A bit of distortion in the analog world can be perceived as "warmth" (depending on the level of distortion). In digital recordings, the same amount of distortion can be the kiss of death. It's annoying, grating, even downright painful. It's like the old "tubes vs. transistors" argument. That said, were these classical CDs cheap knock-offs of previously recorded analog material? If so, they might not have been properly re-mastered. Digital distortion is painful. Enough to put a cow off production. volume levels... Was the music being played at the same level as before? The difference to human ears might be negligable, to a cow's hearing, a different story. > Joe is not a fan of digital anyway, to put it mildly... but this has made his > opinion of it even lower than ever, in fact he feels civilization may > actually be doomed because of this and other things like it. Pope Gregory (I think it was him?) felt exactly the same way about the crossbow... that it was the ultimate weapon and spelled out the doom of mankind. History has proven otherwise, we survived it, sort of. > He thinks the > change to digital delivery systems for music is causing something vital to be > left out of the music itself, by virtue of the fact that digital will not > recognize sounds below a certain volume, and this will subliminally affect > all of us in an adverse way. Depending on how it's recorded, this is true of any recording technology, but that's irrelevent really. Even in hearing a live performance, something is always "missing" or missed. Each individual perceives what is presented from a unique perspective. Digital technology is in its infancy. Every technology has its detractors until it "proves itself". If you listen to Edison's wax recordings or old 78 rpm shellac records, they were a pretty atrocious media at the outset as well. Plenty was missing. The delivery systems were primitive. Over the course of the 20th century the technology improved radically. Digital has only been with us a few years... it will get better. > Obviously it's a matter of the 'white noise' > being missing from the cd version of the music that made the cows drop in > milk production. It might be that. It might be any number of other things as well. > So, if I may ask all of you here, what do you think of all of this? Do you > find listening to live music or record/tapes more comforting or satisfying > than listening to CDs, or is it the other way around for you? It's not a "one or the other" scenario for me. A poorly recorded and produced CD is offensive, just as a poorly done analog recording or a poorly produced live performance. I resisted buying CDs for a long time. I was one of the last of my peer group to finally get one. I have hundreds of vinyl albums. I took as good care of them as possible. The ticks, scratches and pops drive me nuts. I've been converting them to CD while they still play reasonably well. I have hundreds of cassettes, ones that I made and commercial ones, too. Tape deteriorates and loses signal. Stretched tapes sound awful. When confronted with the failure of older technologies, I welcome CDs. I embrace digital. > Is digital > music simply a completely new medium for musicians, with its own 'soul', just > as analog has? It's just a different delivery system. Whether a product is delivered by train, truck, boat or plane, doesn't matter to me. If it arrives in good shape and I'm pleased with the quality, it doesn't matter. > The whole thing reminds me of the debate in the 80's about > synthesizer music being stereotyped as 'soulless', when in fact it's simply > another creative medium to work within - very soulful indeed when in the > right hands. Andrés Segovia made some interesting comments about electric guitars which, at the time, as a guitar player, I found offensive, but I now understand what he meant. At one point he said (and I paraphrase) that an electric guitar was not a guitar at all. On another occasion he said that it was not even a musical instrument. In each case his opinion was tainted by the fact that he didn't understand the role of the instrument. It was not part of his world. In the late 60's, I started using effects like fuzzboxes on my guitar. An older jazz player disdained them and said "Real music by real musicians doesn't need those things..." Yet he used a reverb unit with his guitar amp - but to him, that was not an "effect". The other effects were not part of his world. > There is a knee-jerk reaction to anything that's new, > especially when it involves computers... except, then I keep remembering the > cows.... have I been dwelling on this a little too much lately? :) It would be interesting to conduct a real scientific study, a "blind test" and find out what the results would be. I suspect that there are many factors not addressed in the story and the results of a more empirical endeavour might prove surprising. I think civilization is as safe as it's ever been from the ravages of musicians and composers. Just my .02 worth... 8>) dg - -- Doug Grose dgrose@theturtles.com http://theturtles.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 18:17:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Cracknell Subject: Re: Alloy: Joe's Cows (digital vs analog) In article <3901C8D9.EF8F5771@home.com>, you wrote: >empirical endeavour might prove surprising. I think civilization is as >safe as it's ever been from the ravages of musicians and composers. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ Well... yeah. I mean, now that Gary Glitter is behind bars. CRACKERS (Ravaged by musicians from hell!!!) - -- Collector of Atari 2600 carts - Accordionist - Bira Bira Devotee - Anime fan * http://www.hwcn.org/~ad329/crab.html | Crackers' Arts Base * * http://www.netway.com/~hozervideo/index.html | Hozer Video Games * Nihongo ga dekimasu - 2600 programmer - Father of 2 great kids - Canadian eh ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 15:51:38 +0100 From: "Trevor James Blagg" Subject: Alloy: Ferngully - The Last Rainforest Dear all, I've just gotten hold of a CD version of the soundtrack to the above film. Unfortunately it doesn't mention Thomas in the credits anywhere, only Alan Silvestri who I was led to believe co-wrote the score. He doesn't even get a mention in the thank yous? Does anybody know why this may be? Trevor.... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 16:58:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Elaine Linstruth Subject: Re: Alloy: Joe's Cows (digital vs analog) I'm no audio expert or anything, but I can definately tell you that babies go to sleep faster and sleep longer with "white noise." At least, mine did. With the first one we just put a boombox in her room and tuned it to FM, no station. Fuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz all night. Speaking of which, there are pictures scanned at http://www.qnet.com/~elaine/girls if anyone is interested. - -- Elaine Linstruth Palmdale, CA (USA) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 20:21:34 EDT From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: baby pics! In a message dated 4/22/00 8:01:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, elaine@qnet.com writes: :: Speaking of which, there are pictures scanned at http://www.qnet.com/~elaine/girls if anyone is interested. :: Elaine, your beautiful daughters look so much like you! Anna's hair has a lot of red highlights in some of these photos - such a pretty color :) ! Robin T ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V5 #98 **************************