From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V4 #327 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Monday, December 6 1999 Volume 04 : Number 327 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Alloy: Just back.... (Libra rant! Horrorscopic) [Spencer2424@aol.com] Re: Alloy: astrologie.... [Spencer2424@aol.com] Alloy: Re: Scorpio rant! Horrorscopic ["electrix" ] Re: Alloy: Re: Scorpio rant! Horrorscopic [Spencer2424@aol.com] Alloy: Wrecked 'um? Damn near killed 'um. [Chris Cracknell ] Re: Alloy: astrologie.... (OT) [RThurF@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:49:43 EST From: Spencer2424@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: Just back.... (Libra rant! Horrorscopic) In a message dated 12/4/99 6:46:28 PM Mountain Standard Time, bethmeyer@mindspring.com writes: << 3. If I had to describe my personality, here are the main points I would mention: highly analytical and not outwardly emotional, to the point of frequently drawing comparisons to Mr. Spock; not comfortable with making decisions quickly and prone to change them when new data comes in; very responsible in general, hard worker, devoted wife and doting mother; possessor of a warped sense of humor that tends to surprise people when it comes out; avoids conflict 99% of the time, but when something pushes my "that's not right" button, is totally relentless in pursuing what I perceive to be justice or truth or a fair outcome. And my taste in music is quite eclectic, as a few other folks in the group can attest. There's a quote by a legendary jazz musician (forget which one) that pretty much sums it up for me -- "If it sounds good, it IS good." Basically, I don't know whether that confirms or disconfirms any stereotypes of scorpios, but I thought I'd at least share the data point. >> Beth, I'm no expert on signs, but I'd have to say - you sound like a classic Scorpio! Everything you mentioned fits the profile. One of my favorite generalizations about Scorpios is that they make "wonderful, loyal friends, and formidable enemies." Sound like you? (Keep in mind, I use the word "enemy" loosely; not that you're going to come to blows or anything, but you'll probably use all your intellect and guile to go up against what you perceive to be injustice or significant error. That's why Scorpios often do well in the hard sciences, where their tenacity is a virtue). - - Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:52:13 EST From: Spencer2424@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: astrologie.... In a message dated 12/4/99 7:22:18 PM Mountain Standard Time, RThurF@aol.com writes: << She's also one of the most unconventionally brilliant and creative people I've ever met. We even designed my latest haircut together (my very own 'pet haircut'... named Turbo Scully, for obvious reasons...! photos to come on the web site...) >> Robin, Can I meet her? (in the virtual sense, that is - I assume she has email...) She sounds so interesting... - - Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Dec 99 15:29:19 -0800 From: "electrix" Subject: Alloy: Re: Scorpio rant! Horrorscopic Craig stated: >Nonetheless, my tastes >in music are quite diverse, and include pop oddballs like Laurie >Anderson, >The Residents, Julie Brown, Weird Al, The Pajama Slave Dancers (bet you >never >heard of them!), Vinnie and the Stardusters (or them!), You are absolutely right, never heard of the last two or Julie Brown. >Dolby. Perhaps being born on October 24th (the leading edge of >Scorpio) >helps. Or maybe it was all that Bowie music coming from my older >sister's >room when I was a kid. She, of course, was a Libra. Interesting... I do think there is quite more than astrological "influence" of individuals. Culture, upbringing, peer pressure, genes etc. are all parcels of the parameter of human personality which effect uniqueness. However, since I have a very scientific and mathematical inclination, I tend to look for patterns in nature. I also strive to correct the mis-perceptions since my life objective is discovering the closest approximation of Truths. Whether we are "influenced" or "programmed" becomes a blurred vision. I don't necessarily concur in the fatalistic aspect of Astrology. I however --- when I am observant enough --- seek to find a pattern in individual behavior. Astrology provides a fundamental base from which to start. To UNDERSTAND a being can only lead to a harmonious relationship under that objective. Each day is a new discovery, and as you have well elucidated, had a mis-perception of Scorpio. Then again, I did mention that I couldn't be objective since I was married to one which left lingering a whole lot of emotional baggage. Blast! Where is my Psychoanalyst when I need him?! :-) electrix ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Dec 99 16:05:25 -0800 From: "electrix" Subject: Re: Alloy: astrologie.... Robin wrote: >much room for variation in individuals that it's impossible to divide >everyone on earth into just twelve categories. Yes, that is so, but that is if you speak only of the Sun signs. Once you include the Moon Signs, Planetary Signs, and Aspects there is enough variability. >Perhaps the appeal to Scorpios and Aquarians of Thomas' music *could* >have to >do with the fact that Mr Dolby himself happens to have very strong >Scorpio >and Aquarian influences in his own chart?? (I just peeked! ~blush~) - >mostly >Scorpio - which deepens the well of mystery perhaps, in his own countenance. Interesting... >Also along astrological lines, I first guessed he was a Libra before I >ever >knew he was one, based solely on the shape of his mouth. DON'T ASK!!! >I'm >sure it was purely coincidence anyway... :) ! Hmmmm... "coincidential?." How about another possible look at it?. The mind seeks to find answers to puzzles. Whether consciously or unconsciously. It abhors a vaccum. If it must invent data in order to understand its environment, it will. This mechanism is an underlying survival mechanism that categorizes the mental database. I would opine your "guessed" could probably be an intuitional flux based on already observed and categorized information. electrix ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 19:24:37 EST From: Spencer2424@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: Re: Scorpio rant! Horrorscopic In a message dated 12/5/99 4:23:53 PM Mountain Standard Time, electrix@mail.electricson.com writes: << You are absolutely right, never heard of the last two or Julie Brown. >> You probably have heard or seen Julie Brown, somewhere back in your 1980's past life. Of course, I have no idea how old you are, or what your tastes are, so maybe you missed out on such classics as "The Homecoming Queen's Got a Gun", "I Like 'em Big and Stupid!", and "Cause I'm a Blonde" (I can't spell VW, but I drive a Porsche!). She also did a wonderful satire of Madonna's pseudo-documentary about hersellf on tour. I haven't seen it in awhile, but I think the Julie Brown version was called "Medusa." And then there's her role in "Earth Girls Are Easy", a dumb movie with a few great moments. As for the other bands, well, I can't really defend them from an artistic standpoint. But you've just got to appreciate the originality of any band that does a heavy metal cover of "The Brady Bunch Theme", or a lovely samba called "The Girl From Impanema Wants to Kill Me." <> That sounds like it was a rather traumatic relationship. My appologies, on behalf of all reasonable Scorpios everywhere... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 20:54:57 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Cracknell Subject: Alloy: Wrecked 'um? Damn near killed 'um. Hello my fellow alloyites, I'm glad to be back up and posting. I've just spent the last week laid out flat on my back suffering one of the worst flu bugs to have hit me in ages. I'm still pretty wobbly but feeling much more like myself and have the strength to drag myself over to the computer. Man, talk about a huge backlogue of messages. It's a good thing I recovered when I did or my e-mail box would have been shut down soon. All I can say is that when I die and have my chat with the Big-Person upstairs they'd better have one hell of a good explanation for flu and cold virii or I'm going to be mighty pissed off with them. Somebody better damn well find some way to use flu and cold virii to cure cancer or discover some strange alchemy that turns them into gold or at the very least the little buggers better save our asses from some future invasion by space aliens. CRACKERS (dog-like in sickness from hell!!) - -- Collector of Atari 2600 carts - Accordionist - Bira Bira Devotee - Anime fan * http://www.hwcn.org/~ad329/crab.html | Crackers' Arts Base * * http://www.angelfire.com/ma/hozervideo/index.html | Hozer Video Games * Nihongo ga dekimasu - 2600 programmer - Father of 2 great kids - Canadian eh ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Dec 99 18:50:38 -0800 From: "electrix" Subject: Re: Alloy: Re: Scorpio rant! Horrorscopic >You probably have heard or seen Julie Brown, ... >...called "The Girl From Impanema Wants to Kill Me." LOL!!! >That sounds like it was a rather traumatic relationship. My >appologies, on behalf of all reasonable Scorpios everywhere... Oh, that's alright.. I had it coming. Bad Karma is brutal. ;-) electrix btw, I am 45 going on 30! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 20:55:02 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Cracknell Subject: Re: Alloy: astrologie.... In article <0.6209b13b.257b24e2@aol.com>, you wrote: >I'm generally not into classifying people in particular ways based on >signs... I've even known identical twins who were nothing alike! There is so >much room for variation in individuals that it's impossible to divide >everyone on earth into just twelve categories. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ And that's if you're using the greek zodiac. The problem with astrology is whose astrology do you use? Greek? Babylonian? Japanese? Ethiopian? Chinese? Egyptian? Or the "bought down at the mall new-age spiritual flavour of the week comes with a free crystal and scented candle" astrology? I've never given any stock to astrology. People can say "Well, if the gravity of the moon can affect the oceans why can't it affect us when we're mostly water?" My answer is, yes the gravity of the moon has a dramatic affect on the volume of water in the ocean yet no observable affect on the volume of water in a bucket so I doubt it has any affect on my behaviour and personality. I just greatly doubt that the stars and planets have been set in their motions for the purpose of predicting my love life and lucky lotto numbers. Now in the realm of touchy-feely personal revelation and enlightenment devination methods, the one I would put the most stock in, yet stop short of actually endorsing, would be Enneagrammes. They have their origins in sufism (islamic mysticism) but seem to me to be more psycological than mystical in method. It basically divides human personalities into 9 major types. There are tonnes of books on the subject and lot of information online about Enneagrammes. Some of the online resources are very brief just giving a very point-form overview of the different types and some go into great depths talking about the types in detail and how they influence one another and how a certain type at it's worst will take on the worst characteristics of one type and at it's best take on the best characteristics of another type. There are even online tests of varying degrees of depth for determining your type (or, you can even just read up on all the different types and from that get a pretty good idea what type you fall into which is probably even more accurate than the online tests). The types are: Type 1: Perfectionist Type 2: Helper Type 3: Performer/Motivator Type 4: Romantic/Artist Type 5: Thinker/Observer Type 6: Skeptic/Loyalist Type 7: Adventurer/Generalist Type 8: Leader Type 9: Peacemakers A friend of mine became infatuated with Enneagrammes a few years ago and directed me to a very interesting site about them. Alas I have long since lost the URL and a search on Alta-Vista, while turning up hundreds of Enneagramme sites, failed to turn it up. I took the test there and was diagnosed (although keep in mind that Enneagramme tests are of highly questionable accuracy and that informed self-diagnosis is often likely to be a far more accurate means of determining your type since the simplicity of the tests often leaves them lacking in their accuracy) as a type 6. Upon reading up on what constitutes a Type 6 I can say that in my case the test results proved accurate. I was particularily chilled when reading on that page what causes a person to become a type six. You see, with Enneagrammes, the personality type you are is not governed by the heavenly movements of cosmic bodies but are the result of environment and upbringing. You develope the personality type you have because you employed it as a tool for emotional survival in your childhood (it's not neccessarily as sinister as it might sound). Type Sixes are characterized as Skepitcs/Loyalists. The greatest fear of a Type 6 is, well, fear. We do not readily trust others and question everyone's motives. However, once a person has gained our trust we will be loyal to that person to the end. Type Sixes place a greater importance on duty than on themselves. Type Sixes also desperately want to "belong" and have definet authority issues. Taken to their extreme negatives, this can cause an unhealthy Type Six to be an ultra-conformist, bowing to the will of any authority or a "rebel without a cause" lashing out blindly at any authority because they feel alienated. What a Type Six seeks is to find a group of like minded people that will accept them and they in turn will reward that group with unsurpassed loyalty. Once a person has gained the trust of a Type 6 they will discover that the Type 6 is a very affectionate, dedicate person. Type Sixes make the perfect "team player". Type Sixes tend to be very passionate in their beliefs and convictions and taken to its negative extreme this passion manifests itself as fanaticism. As I said up above, the basic fear of a type 6 is fear. Because a type 6 is skeptical and not readily trusting they tend to view the world as a place full of potential dangers. This can cause an unhealthy type six to become paranoid. In their negative extremes type sixes deal with fear by either analytic inaction, sit down and analyse the problem from every possible angle and end up paralysed by indecision, or they will act with counter-phobic reation, lashing out instantly out of fear and generally making things worse thus validating their initial fear in the first place. The type of childhood that generally causes a person to become a type 6 personality is one where they were profoundly abandoned or betrayed by a close authority figure they trusted. This causes them to become very skeptical of the world and the intentions of other people as well it fosters a longing for an authority they can trust and a group which will accept them. There's a vast resource of information in the form of books and webpages by people of various degrees of credibility on the subject of Enneagrammes. Most of what I've been reading has been very interesting. I find it refreshing to see that the 'self help' Enneagramme literature isn't about "How To Become A Type 8 In Five Easy Steps" because it's not about changing the type you are, it's about being healthy in the type you are. They personality type you have was created to help you survive your childhood and it's who you are and can't be changed but you can change the unhealthy behaviour in that personality type into the healthy behaviour of that personality type. So if you're a type 5 it's not about making you into a type 8, it's about making you into a healthy type 5. You'd probably find it interesting Electix because it's very wholistic in it's view. There is no type that is good and no type that is bad, each type has it's own healthy and unhealthy behaviours, negative and positive aspects, and no type is better than the other. On the negative side of things a lot of the stuff I have been reading on Enneagrammes is just the same recycled new-age, Shirley McClean, shiney crystal pendant crap designed to take money from gullible, lost people looking for something to fill their spiritual void. And I've found that there are a great many people out there who use Enneagrammes as just another way to keep their attention focused on their bellybuttons so that they don't actually have to live life in the real world. But like I said, as far as the touchy-feely, personal revelation stuff goes, I find Enneagrammes to be far more credible than astrology. Of course I know that some smart-ass is going to say, "Yeah, well that's just like a virgo to say so." CRACKERS (Type 6 from hell!!!!!) -- Collector of Atari 2600 carts - Accordionist - Bira Bira Devotee - Anime fan * http://www.hwcn.org/~ad329/crab.html | Crackers' Arts Base * * http://www.angelfire.com/ma/hozervideo/index.html | Hozer Video Games * Nihongo ga dekimasu - 2600 programmer - Father of 2 great kids - Canadian eh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 00:56:39 EST From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: astrologie.... (OT) In a message dated 12/5/99 1:58:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, Spencer2424@aol.com writes: :: Can I meet her? (in the virtual sense, that is - I assume she has email...) She sounds so interesting... :: I'll talk to her about it, I'm seeing her tomorrow. She does have email, but only just... she bought her first computer last weekend, and, knowing nothing about them, has of course set the entire thing up herself and is now surfing the web like a pro. Yes, you could easily say she's *very* interesting! :) Robin T ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V4 #327 ***************************