From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V4 #293 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Monday, November 1 1999 Volume 04 : Number 293 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Alloy: It Came From Uranus! ["electrix" ] Alloy: BDay tribute distribution (was: It Came From Uranus!) ["Stephen M.] Alloy: It Came From Uranus! ["Stephen M. Tilson" ] Re: Alloy: [REPOST] Freeing The World One Song At A Time [Chris Cracknell] Re: Alloy: It Came From Uranus! [Chris Cracknell ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Oct 99 01:30:58 -0700 From: "electrix" Subject: Re: Alloy: It Came From Uranus! Crackers wrote: >There's so much more I hear in our covers now that >just didn't come through well on cassette. Yeah... like... tell me about it! fer..shure! Thanks to the ears and hands of the Master of Masters, Miles... There is soooo much I didn't hear on the cassette that presently pops out at every listening. Man... I am checking out the tunes in a TOTALLY new way. My ears just melt at the balanced, separated, and clean sounds! I played it for a co-worker of mine and she was impressed... My past original comments on the first AAMBC attempt still stands. >Windpower: very well crafted cover, and I just love the infusion of the >Star Trek samples and the Dolby interview at the end. Thanks. Miles... you were right. I am blown away!!!! >THE B-SIDES: >A Little Bitter Song: Best I could do at the last moment with busted >gear. There'll be a better B-Side on next year's project B-Day. Man... I was "craking" up all the way thru the words of the song... dude, you are one funny cat! :-) Thank God I have been exposed to Tom Waits whimsical music... >Mood Swing: I take it someone like playing "Interstate '76"? >I can almost imagine this song being used as the themesong for some >sort of hard-driving, tough as nails, 1970s crime fighting detective >TV show. "Far Out!" Oh... like "Wacka, ChuWacka, Wacka... they say Shaft is a bad mother... Shut your mouth" -- Isaac Hayes' "Shaft" Yhea.. I can dig it, I do tend to to get cinematographic at times... he,he,he... Interstate '76? Never heard of them.... >Stalker: Well now I know for sure that it's not the music that makes >me want to wretch when I play "Duke Nukem 3D". Very intense song. >Sounds more like a movie score than a videogame. This was a fine segue to my composition... (Miles, you just gotta be my Masters and Compilation manager for my next studio project!) Lee... outstanding work. I am presently working on a Midi/Audio project and I must say, I have no idea how you get those groovin' drum licks out of a computer but I will need some tips from you! Gosh! >Blue Sky: Hey, have you been taking "effortless cool" lessons from Ian? >Another blast from the 70s with this song. I could almost imagine >Santana playing it. This song is so cool it shits ice cubes. Ditto!!! Very beautiful melody and fluid guitar playing... I think we ought to get together on a tune like this... given my Native Meskito/Jamaican Latin heritage. >Cruel (2): Feh! I wish I had the version that Miles cleaned up. But >then again it would have made for a completely different cover then. Oh > well. Not bad for a geekboy just using a copy of Goldwave, eh? Say Wha??!!!! Once more a shocker from Crackers! :-) And I though _I_ was electric! This is INDEED a very creative digital Stephen Hawking-ness ditty! The outter space Monya De vocal just about brings about chills in my psyche! Is there anybody out there in the galaxy listening?!! Hell..oooooooo??!!!! >Now, as for the packaging. >WOW! DITTO! DOUBLE DITTO!... Keith, my compliments. To be continued.....!!! electrix ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 99 01:39:36 -0700 From: "electrix" Subject: Re: Alloy: The Time Electrix Met Miles I didn't save a copy... but I think it only cut out a few words. I think it went something like this... (to the point of traking me down in cyberspace to keep the integrity of the project). electrix Hey, did anybody ever tell you that should do a radio show? ;-) You got the voice dude! - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Stephen M. Tilson" Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:27:31 -0400 > Electrix wrote: > And finally, to have the tough job of keeping the enthusiasm > alive in the Bday projects (to the point o At this point the text was cut off in the message I received. I must admit to some curiosity as to what came next. Do you still have the original available, E? /\/\ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 99 02:33:55 -0700 From: "electrix" Subject: Re: Alloy: [REPOST] Freeing The World One Song At A Time Chris wrote: >Since Electric missed the original posts on this subject that Miles >and I felt would really interest him, I'm reposting my contributions to >the thread. Thanks for letting me into your thoughts. I read your post with fascinating interest. From the standpoint of an artist, from the standpoint of a business man and as a fanatic consumer. Some of you may know that I once worked in the music industry... from retail, to One-Stop Wholesale and finally all the way up to Warner/Elektra/Atlantic (WEA Inc.)as a disgruntled Financial Analyst. What I found at the top devastated my image of the Music Industry. I suppose I wouldn't be so opinionatedly harsh if I felt it was just in the area I served. But after reading the accounts of others, especially artist who have gotten the big boot, I have disregard for the hierarchy structure, unscrupulous execs, and arrogant greedy cigar smoking Board of Directors. 'Nuff said. I had to voice this since I needed to clear my air before taking an objective stance. It is necessary for me to confront my misgiving and not be tainted by mental hidden agendas or fool myself into thinking I am so righteous comparatively speaking. I will give your comments some thought, Chris. However, before posting, I have to do some "research" and complete some further thoughts. My initial impetus is indeed to establishing a "movement," however small, to fulfill an equitable solution to an industry, I believe, has gone off-the-track with the art of the musicians. Give me a couple of days. electrix ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:50:18 GMT From: "Ian Gifford" Subject: Re: Alloy: Bootlegs Monya-de, Dat machines can be found that will cost you less than $1000 BUT you have to be careful with old machines as the heads are very expensive to replace and last for maybe 1000-1500 hours of recording (on average). Mini-disc maybe an option for you and since everybody hates them they are coming down in price. Just Kidding! I know alot of Internet Radio guys who record all of their stuff to mini disc and it works just as well as DAT or any other digital media. Have fun with the car shopping..... Hey have you checked out KIA's? Ian ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:33:31 -0500 From: "Stephen M. Tilson" Subject: Alloy: BDay tribute distribution (was: It Came From Uranus!) CJMark inquires: > Now I realize that since I did not participate this time that it > might be an impossible request to honor. But if there is a way > for me to belatedly order a copy.. this is request! If not.. I > guess I'll try to figure out how to hear it online. Thanks! Here is a short backgrounder to refresh our memories. The BDay project is open to everyone. To participate we ask that you join the Alloy sub-list "DolbyDay" (write me for details). Distribution of finished work is restricted to participants only. This arrangement came about because we needed permission to record and publish TMDR's copyrighted compositions. That no-license-fees permission was granted based on two factors. The finished product is to be distributed to participants only, and those distribution rights are for private, non-commercial use. While this might seem restrictive and forbidding - participation is surprisingly easy. All you need do (at the minimum) is offer an audio (voice) birthday greeting to Thomas to be included in the recording. That puts you on the distribution list. I dislike having to say no, but the rules must stand to honor our arrangement with Mr. Dolby's management team. I *am* sorry, Mark. But at least I know *you* will not fail to participate should we do this again . . . Keith will no doubt have his webpage version up and running soon. That version, at least, will be available for all to hear. Yours in AllThingsDolby(tm), /\/\iles-brings-the-song ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:33:29 -0500 From: "Stephen M. Tilson" Subject: Alloy: It Came From Uranus! Crackers wrote: > Mood Swing: I take it someone like playing "Interstate '76"? I haven't yet made a connection here, either. Fill us in, Crackers. What is Interstate `76? Electrix wrote: > Miles... you were right. I am blown away!!!! Ouch! Call 911! We've got a GSW - male - late 30's - I need Chem7 and a Pulse Ox., stat! Tube and bag `em! Clear!!! Actually, I was hoping you would just enjoy it. Thanks. E again regarding Stalker: > Lee... outstanding work. I am presently working on a Midi/Audio > project and I must say, I have no idea how you get those groovin' > drum licks out of a computer but I will need some tips from you! > Gosh! Glad you mentioned this. I've sung Lee's praises before, but during this round of sessions it hit home more than ever before: Lee Jackson is a master synthesist! I am dumfounded by what he achieves with controller and sequencer. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over *my* head! The DolbyDay project is blessed with talent and an exceptionally wide artistic range. I am honored and humbled to be a part of it. E again: > This was a fine segue to my composition... (Miles, you just gotta > be my Masters and Compilation manager for my next studio project!) Again, I am honored. And I accept. But I fear that my skills are paltry in comparison to the pro world out there. I consider myself a dedicated amateur - no more than that. But if you'll have me . . . (I'll be attending a seminar on digital mastering next week, if that'll help.) Crackers: You wrote "Feh!" regarding Cruel2, but I disagree. I like it, and like you I wished that you had been able to get a cleaner rework of Monya's original to play around with. It's spooky, man! Blue audio waves on an alien shore. Very creative! AND - quite a few steps away from your native style. I, for one, am more than curious what you'll do next time around - now that all this water has passed under the bridge . . . A general note on the noted clarity of the re-issued Aliens: I was fortunate in that I was given access to master tapes of almost all of the songs therein. Thanks, everyone! /\/\iles-brings-the-song (which is a nod to the movie "Smoke Signals") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 00:49:14 GMT From: "Ian Gifford" Subject: Alloy: copyright thoughts...... Way back when during the folkie boom of the 40's & 50's, Elizabeth "libba" Cotten Composed a song called "Freight Train". In the spirit of the times, she taught it to many of her friends including Pete Seeger and others from the New York area. The latter taught the song to some English Folkies who adapted the song slightly and filed copyright forms for it. It was sometime in the fifties that she took this band to court to try to win the rights back to her song and un-believeably LOST! Her estate now holds rights to her original version of the song which was recorded and published by Moses Asch of the Folkways record label. It is stories like this one that makes me despise the copyright laws because they don't always protect those who need it. There are too many fudged laws that as Crackers pointed out protect the corporate machine more than the independent artist. Did you know that the copyright office in Canada WILL copyright your song for $25.00 cdn but only the title? That price is per title! So to register an entire album which today averages about 12 songs, will cost the artist upwards of $300.00. This protection ensures that Alanis Morrisette will be the only CANADIAN artist to have a song on the charts called "You Oughta know" or "Ironic" for the next ten years. That's it! After that she will need to re-file and pay another (inflation accounted equivalent of...) $25.00 per title! However chances are that Alanis has actually registered with the American Library of Congress (?) which covers the entire song. She can do this as her co-writer is a U.S. citizen. I am a folk show radio host. I often hear SCADS of albums which will be made up of the same songs, with a smattering of "original" songs. I put quotes on Original as one of Woody Guthries "original" copyrighted compositions ie. Union Maid; was written around the tune "redwing" which is considered traditional, probaly because it's so old that we have all forgotten the name of the dude who thought of it first! These albums are made up of these "traditional" songs as they are not subject to Licensing fees which, for a printing of 1000 units, will cost approximately $60.00us per song. in other words $600 dollars if you were to release 2000 units of an album that contains 5 Alanis Morissette tunes. Alanis, for the rights to record this song, may also request and recieve additional points (royalty percentage) from the release of the song as a single or maybe for every album sold! This of course is assuming that Alanis (and not Madonna) holds the publishing rights to her song. Out of the publishing rights that another may purchase from the creator, the only one that is non-transferable, is the right to paternity! This translates as you being able to claim that somebody has mangled the meaning of the song. Like, if A Pat Methany song was being used by a polititian whose virtues are potentially questionable (to you!) he might request that polititian cease and desist. Then he may persue further legal action. These are pretty basic rules that can be bent like a pretzel. (that was also a true story!) The exception to the above rule is say if an artist is considered by contract to be creating the songs for the publisher who would be considered an employer! This is called "Work for Hire" and means that the "employer" retains rights to use the creation in any manner they choose. An example of this is when the artist who sculpted the giant geese hanging in the Toronto "Eaton's Centre", filed a complaint citing misuse of his creation when the mall put toques and scarfs on his geese during a winter promotion. He was trying to claim his Paternity rights on this. He Lost, as the Geese were created For the Mall as a commissioned piece! The contract was created to protect not the artist but the Buyer or employer! This is something that often happens to many (perhaps over-trusting) artists that can't afford to have the right lawyer read and ammend their contract for them. I am sure you have all heard different stories of these situations since recorded music started going ballistic in the early 30's. There are of course artists who would prefer to have these type of contracts! (none that I know!) At the same time I am pleased to play those aformentioned albums that contain those traditional songs. I mean everyone strives to keep up some sort of tradition right? I know so many artists who will play a Robert Johnson tune and not even realize that is was one of his! But the fact is that in some fashion, that song is being preserved. Ever had a "crazy Mary" in your town? I have lived in 5 different cities and have met as many "crazy Marys" often whom aren't named mary. The point being that there are certain traditions for relaying local and ancient mythologies/metaphors and/or morality tales but still never getting it out as it was originally said. Still I find an awful lot of performers who can put there own spin on a "traditional tune" and relay an emotion or experience that can't be anything but real. Know what I mean? Native North Americans have been doing this for centuries and never payed a single royalty! It is part of their inheritance for having specific blood-lines. This is probably the closest example (other than Gregorian chants etc.) that I can relate to Crackers re-published piece on "Open-Art". None of the recievers of the re-translated information (be it music or visual art of some form) are going to kick and scream about it's most recent interpretation as they know deep down that it is being as true to the original as it possibly can be at that point! They know it's roots and origins! Maybe we could see it as being like "objective" vs. "subjective" with Alanis Morrisette music being "objective" and Elizabeth Cotten music being "Subjective". All of this information is arguable as I have not opened any of my texts to extract the information I have written. I am merely translating my own understanding of it at this point. I welcome more discussion of this. I will add that my first Music Business exam scored 100%. My second was 86% (not bad....but) ;) I was very intrigued by Crackers posting and wish I had recieved it originally as it has made me think quite a bit in the 24hours since I read it. Please accept this (long winded note) as me processing some of the info that Mr.C. has submitted. I am intrigued and will have more to add to it in the future. Thanks for the attention and disk space. I hope that this discussion will find some new and continued interest amongst us. It could be very rewarding on many levels I am sure. this is very relevant to this group I am sure as Copyright and "Art-ownership" has been brought into question through the 3 Tribute projects that we have collectively been involved in recently. I know alot of this isn't new to many of you but I am sure you know why I am writing of it now. It started with me picking up my guitar this mornig and picking out a firey version of "Freight Train" <(c) Elizabeth Cotten> and wondering to myself "would Libba have liked that one?" Ian Ian Gifford Singer/Songwriter, Radio show host. Sundays 12am till 2am (est) http://www.chrw.fm.net mailto:igifford@hotmail.com "All music is folk music. I ain't never heard no horse sing a song" Louis Armstrong, 1901-1971 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 01:02:31 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Cracknell Subject: Re: Alloy: [REPOST] Freeing The World One Song At A Time In article <199910310333787.SM00252@mail.electricson.com>, you wrote: >I will give your comments some thought, Chris. However, before posting, I >have to do some "research" and complete some further thoughts. My initial >impetus is indeed to establishing a "movement," however small, to fulfill >an equitable solution to an industry, I believe, has gone off-the-track >with the art of the musicians. > >Give me a couple of days. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ No problemo, take your time. After all, no point in going off halk cocked especially on an issue that's so very important. I've been getting a lot of verbal support from local area artists who are quite in favour of the idea of "open art". But I've told them the concept is still in the development stage and I'm waiting for more input from other artists to help in nailing down a precise definition of what "open art". Then I'll set up a little webpage with that definition, and perhaps write a FAQ and essay on the subject as well as a declaration that all my works created to date are placed into the domain of "open art". CRACKERS (Open sesame from hell!!!!) - -- Collector of Atari 2600 carts - Accordionist - Bira Bira Devotee - Anime fan * http://www.hwcn.org/~ad329/crab.html | Crackers' Arts Base * * http://www.angelfire.com/ma/hozervideo/index.html | Hozer Video Games * Nihongo ga dekimasu - 2600 programmer - Father of 2 great kids - Canadian eh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 01:02:30 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Cracknell Subject: Re: Alloy: It Came From Uranus! In article <199910310130228.SM00252@mail.electricson.com>, you wrote: >>A Little Bitter Song: Best I could do at the last moment with busted >>gear. There'll be a better B-Side on next year's project B-Day. > >Man... I was "craking" up all the way thru the words of the song... >dude, you are one funny cat! :-) Thank God I have been exposed to >Tom Waits whimsical music... ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ Tom Waits definetly falls into the catagory of "Musical God". That guy is absolutely brilliant. Pure genius. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ >Yhea.. I can dig it, I do tend to to get cinematographic at >times... he,he,he... Interstate '76? Never heard of them.... ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ "Interstate '76" has to be one of the coolest games every created. It's a TV show from an alternate reality's 1976. The US loses a major war. The economy collapses. Law enforcement becomes corrupt as corporate and gang warfare rage across the country. The only thing standing between lawful citizens and the abyss are vigilantes in heavily armed muscle cars. The music in the game is increadably authentic as are the opening credits. I haven't got the original I76 but I have the prequel/add-on I76 Nitro Pack. The cars are increadable. The names of the cars and their manufacturers have been changed to avoid trademark issues, but the cars are all instantly recognizable to car enthusiasts with a taste for 70s muscle cars. The main characters in Nitro Pack are Taurus, a mean mutha-fu... (shut yo mouth) with an afro beyond compair and a white Lincoln Continental. Jade Champion, a spitfire with a sleek muscle car. She's the sister of Groove Champion, one of the lead characters in the first I76 game who joins with Taurus to avenge her death. And last but not least, Skeeter, the comic-relief grease-monkey who has killed too many braincells with anti-freeze. Together they fight a number of baddies including their arch rival Natty Dread. The game is just increadable. I'm not much for PC games but this one I can play again and again (I've still got to find the original I76). Rumour has it that Activision is going to release another sequel called "Interstate 82", which as the title suggests takes place in 1982. Rumour also has it that Gary Neuman will be doing the soundtrack for the game. As cool as that would be, most fans of the original game are disappointed in the decision to have the game take place in the 80s. For one thing, there's not as much camp value for a game set in the 80s as there is for one in the 70s, and secondly, the 1980s is when cars really started to go downhill. Granted there were still a few exotic designs but overall everymake of car started to look the same, a problem which still plagues cars today. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ >Ditto!!! Very beautiful melody and fluid guitar playing... I think we >ought to get together on a tune like this... given my Native >Meskito/Jamaican Latin heritage. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ I keep wanting to break out my flute and jam along with this one. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ >>Cruel (2): Feh! I wish I had the version that Miles cleaned up. But >>then again it would have made for a completely different cover then. Oh >>well. Not bad for a geekboy just using a copy of Goldwave, eh? > >Say Wha??!!!! >Once more a shocker from Crackers! :-) And I though _I_ was electric! >This is INDEED a very creative digital Stephen Hawking-ness ditty! The >outter space Monya De vocal just about brings about chills in my psyche! >Is there anybody out there in the galaxy listening?!! Hell..oooooooo??!!!! ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ Arigatou gozaimasu. Don't be too shocked, before I discovered my love for the accordion I used to spend all my time doing the "freaky synth stuff". Still do now and then, although lately I've been doing more of the "electric piano funk". I've got this really cheesy, ancient leslie simulator pedal (a Memphis Roto-phase, cost me all of $10). It doesn't sound like a rotating speaker (more like a subtle tremolo/phaser combo) but it sounds ultra-funky when I play my Hohner Pianet Model-T through it. (The accordion sounds cool through it too). CRACKERS (Fun-Kay from hell!!!!!!!!!!) - -- Collector of Atari 2600 carts - Accordionist - Bira Bira Devotee - Anime fan * http://www.hwcn.org/~ad329/crab.html | Crackers' Arts Base * * http://www.angelfire.com/ma/hozervideo/index.html | Hozer Video Games * Nihongo ga dekimasu - 2600 programmer - Father of 2 great kids - Canadian eh ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V4 #293 ***************************