From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V4 #283 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Thursday, October 21 1999 Volume 04 : Number 283 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Alloy: Beatnik'ed, At Last! ["Melissa R. Jordan" ] Re: Alloy: Beatnik'ed, At Last! [Kathleen Presser ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:36:55 -0400 From: "Melissa R. Jordan" Subject: Alloy: Beatnik'ed, At Last! Thanks to both members of Alloy and the wonderfully friendly support folks at Beatnik (wow, are they ever cool - Thomas, you have a great staff), I am finally playing around with Beatnik and the remixes. It's a riot!!! When I visit my family in Illinois soon, I'm going to get my sister's girls set up to try their hands at it, too! Appropriately enough, I have named my first try "TechnoNinny Mix." It's pouring down rain here, and the headlights on my car are broken, as of last night. Maryland has a strict "headlights on in rain" law, so I can't even drive to the garage without the possibility of getting busted. Guess who's working from home today? And, that's so dangerous, now that I have Beatnik running here. Heh heh heh heh heh... Perhaps it's time to challenge the lame Israeli pop music screaming at me from next door with a little "Science", eh? Cheers, Melissa - -- Melissa R. Jordan Owner/Artist, Compass Rose Studios (www.crstudios.com) Owner, Compass Rose Consulting (www.askcrc.com) Visit my new blank, websites! Text, pictures, and all that coming soon!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:26:15 -0700 From: Kathleen Presser Subject: Re: Alloy: Beatnik'ed, At Last! Melissa, LOL, go ahead, blast that 'science' music. I have yet to get the beatnik remix to produce any sound. Been extremely busy with everything else in life and work etc....... Anyway, like the name Technoninny. That's pretty cool!! How about this saying - Max out with the ultimate remix. could you imagine if someone remixed Remax?? Play on words you know. Like, totally!! Pax Aye, Kate;-) Melissa R. Jordan wrote: > Thanks to both members of Alloy and the wonderfully friendly support > folks at Beatnik (wow, are they ever cool - Thomas, you have a great > staff), I am finally playing around with Beatnik and the remixes. It's a > riot!!! When I visit my family in Illinois soon, I'm going to get my > sister's girls set up to try their hands at it, too! > > Appropriately enough, I have named my first try "TechnoNinny Mix." > > It's pouring down rain here, and the headlights on my car are broken, as > of last night. Maryland has a strict "headlights on in rain" law, so I > can't even drive to the garage without the possibility of getting > busted. Guess who's working from home today? > > And, that's so dangerous, now that I have Beatnik running here. Heh heh > heh heh heh... Perhaps it's time to challenge the lame Israeli pop music > screaming at me from next door with a little "Science", eh? > > Cheers, > > Melissa > > -- > Melissa R. Jordan > > Owner/Artist, Compass Rose Studios (www.crstudios.com) > Owner, Compass Rose Consulting (www.askcrc.com) > Visit my new blank, websites! Text, pictures, and all that coming > soon!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:26:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Cracknell Subject: Re: Alloy: Freeing The World One Song At A Time In article <0.2daa6699.253ccb16@aol.com>, you wrote: >In a message dated 10/17/99 10:26:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >crackers@hwcn.org writes: > >:: People of Alloy, please share with me any ideas, insights, and suggestions > you might have that will help to make an "open art" movement a reality. > If you know of any arts organizations that have similar goals in mind > please share them with me too. :: > >crackers, your idea is intriguing! ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ This new learning intrigues me Sir Bedivire, explain to me again how sheeps bladders can be used to prevent earthquakes. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ >I can say that in the graphic arts world there are already many collections >of copyright-free designs - 'clip art' - which anyone is free to use for >anything they like, without even having to refer to the source (many times >the source is forgotten by now anyway!) ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ The concept behind "open art" would be a little different from "public domain" in that the originator would always be credited and "open art" is a bit like a virus. Anything touched by "open art" would become itself "open art". This would make it different from "public domain" because you can incorporate PD material in a project, but that doesn't make your project PD. "Open art" would be a give and take kind of thing. If you take something that is "open art" and use it to create your own work then the work you created from it becomes "open art", so there's never a negative reciprocity. I guess the philosophy of "open art" would be: "By artists according to their means, for artists according to their needs." ^_^ I was out last night talking with some local artists and won two new converts over to the "open art" idea. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ >Anyway, back to your idea of Free Art as pertains to Music. Are you >considering that artists might self-publish collections of a musical >equivalent of 'clip art' - that is, under the artists name (and possibly with >the name or code embedded within it so that the artist will always get proper >recognition) but with no copyright restrictions? ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ Musical "clip art" would certainly be a likelyhood. There already exists something similar called "buy-out" music. CDs of original music (or original recordings of PD music) that one can purchase and as part of the purchase agreement they can use the contents of the CD in any way for any purpose they want. But like I was saying, I see "open art" becoming more than mearly art without copyright restrictions. I see it as a way of encouraging the sharing of talents and ideas in the art world. Film makers, videogame designers, writers, painters, musicians, all sharing their creations with one another with the only restrictions being that the work's originator is always credited as such, and that works created with "open art" become "open art". ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ >Putting out music that >anyone can access for free *does* make sense in this light, because as we all >know, the only music that gets airplay is that which the companies push with >all their might/financing, if they think it will make them richer. Never mind >what the people want to hear... it's what the record companies are telling >them they want to hear. Propaganda such as this has always proven extremely ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ I think this is one of the reasons why "open art" will work well for the independent artist. Much in the way Linux would have languished in obscurity if it were released in the typical fashion of commercial software, many artists will languish in obscurity simply because the factors arn't in their favour for commercial success. To me it's far worse a thing to go through my life and not have had my voice as an artist heard than it would be for me to simply go through my life and not make a cent from my art. I'm certain that there must be a significant number of artists out there who feel likewise who would be willing to gamble their royalty cheques against the prospect of being heard rather than gamble their art against the prospect of becoming a superstar. And of course, just because you choose to release some works as "open art" it doesn't mean you have to release everything as "open art", so you're perfectly free to play both sides of the field as you see fit. Just remember that when you use "open art" that everything it touches becomes "open art". So if you're not willing to have every song on your CD become "open art" then don't use an "open art" song on it. As for record companies controlling the music market, I think the only way we'll ever break that is if we're able to convince artists to stop chasing the dream of becoming a superstar and to empower themselves to publish their works. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ >underpaid, neglected, etc) What sort of media would you be proposing? >Internet is of course considered the most widely accessable... though not >everyone is connected to the 'net (after all, it seems 17% of Americans are >living below poverty level, not to mention the rest of the earth's population >who are under similar circumstances or worse... I just read the stats this >morning & I'm ticked off, sorry for the mini-rant :) ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ The internet would certainly play an important role in the publishing of "open art". If an "open art" organization could be created it would be able to point people online towards the various sources of "open art" (both on and off line). Of course, as you said, the one prohibiting factor behind internet publishing is the fact that only a small minority of people are online. Computer costs are still prohibitively expensive for most people as is the costs involved in internet access. One solution to this is the creation of more "freenets" and "community nets" such as the one I use to access the net. These are shell accounts on a text base system that allows access to the web, email, and usenet. Even though the system is text only, graphics and sound files can be downloaded and viewed/listened to offline. Freenets, like the name implies are "free" (although they may offer pay accounts with more features). Community nets are like freenets except they charge a small yearly fee for the account (I pay $30 a year for 50 hours a month and 2 meg of system space). The advantage of the Lynx shell account is that I can access the net on anything from an old Commodore 64 to a top of the line pentium. As long as it has a modem (and at least VT-52 emulation) it can get you online. But the internet wouldn't be the only source of "open art" just as it isn't the only source of "open source" software. Retail sales will still be a possibility. Artists will be able to publish and distribute their works in stores the way they traditionally have. Musicians can make CDs, artists can publish books, film makers can sell video tapes, the same way Red Hat sells copies of Linux. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ >Self-publishing is definitely an answer. I can see that your proposal >involves more than just self-publication though. In what ways would it >differ, if you don't mind explaining once more (to the ditzy impractical >visual artist and craftsperson that I'm made out to be by corporate >propaganda spinners who want to rob me and my colleagues blind ;) ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ Like I was saying, it's more than just self publishing. It's sharing your artwork with other artists and the world. It's also relinquishing the idea that I need to make 4.6 cents off every copy of my work in order for it to make the act of creation worth my while. I was playing at a folk club last night (most of my jobber and session work comes in the form of playing celtic folk music) and it occured to me that 99% of the music I was hearing played last night was written a few hundred years before copyrights exists by artists who were motivated by nothing more than the need to express themselves. It seems that since 1928 the need to express oneself has taken a backseat for many artists to the desire to cash in on their talents. It's easy enough to blame the big record companies but I feel that a bit of the blame must also fall on the artists who devote their creative energies to chasing down the big record contract as if that will suddenly validate them as an artist. Even worse is the artist who creates for no other reason than to make a buck and puts no more soul and feeling and expression into their work than is needed to make the sale. That's how mindless pap ends up getting packaged for the masses as art. CRACKERS (How do I get this "pinko" label off my ass from hell!!) -- Atari 2600 Collector - Accordionist - Nrrrd and Proud - Borderline Otaku http://www.hwcn.org/~ad329/crab.html CRACKERS' ARTS BASE http://www.netcom.ca/~geekboy Official "I Love My Shih'Tzu" Webpage Nihongo ga dekimasu - Canadian, eh - Atari 2600 Programmer - Father of 2 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:36:55 -0600 From: "Keith Stansell" Subject: Re: Alloy: Freeing The World One Song At A Time Here I am, responding about "Open Art" without fully reading all the posts on the subject, but here goes some thoughts I had. I also see the concept of "Share Art" similar to the concept of "shareware". Freely download and enjoy the art, but if you find it enjoyable then please send $ to the creator of the work. If not, delete the file, whatever. If you distribute the art, please include artist and contact information with the art... Open art would be more like the project JAMac suggested some time back where the art could be freely changed and manipulated by others. This would be like sending out a midi file (or RMF) for others to work with, improve upon etc... Perhaps we have seen an example of "Open Art" this week called "Science 1999". - - 2 cents worth. Keith Stansell Denver ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:43:49 -0400 (EDT) From: andyjmail@cheerful.com Subject: Alloy: TD & Foreigner... Hi all. Hmmm... interesting evening... just popped back into work to get something I forgot to take home. I've been at the radio studio tonight. Of the four of us who normally "star" on a Wed. evening only me and Rob turned up. While Rob did the 9 'til 10 requests show I sat in the other studio and gave some vinyl a spin to educate myself a little. Foreigner... that rings a bell from somewhere. Ah yes, Tom Dolby - main synths. So I tried to see if I could detect any Dolby influence on the various tracks. Nope. Not my cup of tea, I have to say. "Urgent" is still quite pleasant though, and I wondered if the part that makes the chorus so catchy was the Work Of Tom. I'll leave that as an open question if anyone wants to illuminate the matter. Then I tried some horrendous looking "Invaders of the Pop charts" or something like that, on the Ronco label, hahaha. Some interesting 80s stuff (I wasn't looking at the track list). I was hopping around dropping the stylus on various tracks when all of a sudden there was Whodini's Magic Wand!! What a coincidence! (That's the rappy version of Puppet Theatre, with the name T. Dolby involved) Marvelous. If I had the time and talent I'd mix it together with Puppet Theatre for the sheer joy of it. Ah well... just thought I'd share that with you. I'm off home then, it's 10:41. I need my beauty sleep. Lot's of it. Toodle pip +AndyJ+ "There's a soldier on every fader, and a madman in control" "Oh my God, I think I'm having a rap attack!" hahaha - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Get your free email from AltaVista at http://altavista.iname.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:05:39 -0400 From: "Melissa R. Jordan" Subject: Alloy: Science Remixes - Something Funky with the Vocals? Hi, folks, For those of you who are playing with the Science remix, do you have the occasional remix where all the tracks are fine and playing normal speed, but Thomas' vocals are running slow? It's really weird. Everything else is the right tempo, all matching, and then you add his voice, and it's like he's on a tape machine running much slower. Very weird - and really freaky on a headset! This is so much fun - if I were allowed to use multimedia stuff like this at work (dang government rules!), I'd get nothing done. Like my mom always says, I'm a cheap date. This is a hoot! Cheers, Melissa - -- Melissa R. Jordan Owner/Artist, Compass Rose Studios (www.crstudios.com) Owner, Compass Rose Consulting (www.askcrc.com) Visit my new blank, websites! Text, pictures, and all that coming soon!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:48:25 EDT From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Alloy: access denied! Access denied, access denied!!! I hate my computer. I'm going away to play my cello (which I also hate) Robin T ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:04:30 EDT From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Alloy: sweet ... just then, someone intelligent walked into the room & showed me what I have been doing wrong... and I find that in my case at least, going to the remix site via AOL's browser is a mistake (I know, I know. I'm embarrassingly unfamiliar with any significant differences between browsers. Mostly I just write letters on this thing) After reloading Beatnik I've just used Internet Explorer and have seen the Science remix site for the first time. It's really beautiful!! Now I'll just have to attempt to make a mix for myself having never done this before. Playing around with it just now (and having to cover Thomas' face because his rolling eyes keep making me laugh) I can tell it's going to be strange. I actually find I keep wanting to physically manhandle the music itself, pulling it apart like threads to see the parts individually, as with sheet music or instruments but I don't have it physically in front of me in any way, just all these keys and a mouse. And with the controls, if I play one part by itself for too long so I can hear what it's doing, some other parts start jumping in by themselves. Um... the remix site just sounded a tuba noise at me very insistently... i think I've annoyed it. or is it beckoning me to continue..? Robin T slave to Beatnik remix ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:30:52 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: Brian Clayton Subject: Alloy: San Francisco By Blimp The Goodyear blimp(*) is in town tonight, I discovered as I drove home from work a short time ago. After being home for a bit, I heard a buzzing sound coming from outside....which I immediately recognized. Well, what else could I do but grab my binocs, throw track #7 of AAMB on the stereo, and run outside to watch the airship plow through the sky above my house and past a pale phase of the moon to the strains of TMDR? I sure wish I'd get a chance to listen to that song whilst *on board* a blimp, rather than just watching it sail past me, but ya takes what ya gets, ya know? :) BC (*) I believe it is the airship "Eagle," being the west-coast based blimp of the Goodyear fleet. - --- Brian Clayton "I hope I can continue to confuse and exasperate stemish@lns.com you for a couple more decades." -- TMDR ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V4 #283 ***************************