From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V4 #217 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Saturday, August 7 1999 Volume 04 : Number 217 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Alloy: ouch ["Lem Bingley" ] Alloy: Gold Collection [Robyn Moore ] Re: Alloy: Jeeze Louise! [Paul Baily ] Alloy: The Cracknell Accord. [Paul Baily ] Alloy: various [andyjmail@cheerful.com] Alloy: my mistake, I'm sure [andyjmail@cheerful.com] Re: Alloy: Gold Collection [Brian Clayton ] Re: Alloy: various [Ernie Longmire/Lazlo Nibble ] Re: Alloy: Gold Collection [Brian Clayton ] Re: Alloy: Gold Collection [Brian Clayton ] Re: Alloy: ouch [RThurF@aol.com] Re: Alloy: The Cracknell Accord. [RThurF@aol.com] Re: Alloy: I got a job! (Now-Dolby related) [RThurF@aol.com] Alloy: reminder of SMOE downtime [RThurF@aol.com] Re: Alloy: "12 X 12 Original Remixes" [DAbbitt32@aol.com] Alloy: Unsubscription & Interruption [DAbbitt32@aol.com] Alloy: Post Script to My Last Diatribe [DAbbitt32@aol.com] Re: Alloy: "12 X 12 Original Remixes" [Robyn Moore ] Re: Alloy: Gold Collection [Robyn Moore ] Re: Alloy: various [DAbbitt32@aol.com] Re: Alloy: Unsubscription & Interruption [Ernie Longmire/Lazlo Nibble ] Re: Alloy: Jeeze Louise! [DAbbitt32@aol.com] Alloy: Post Script to My Last Message [DAbbitt32@aol.com] Re: Alloy: Post Script to My Last Diatribe [RThurF@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:03:43 +0100 From: "Lem Bingley" Subject: Alloy: ouch Yesterday my girlfriend's watch stopped working. Now being a handy sort of bloke, I said, "No worries, it's just the battery, I'll pop the back off and see what kind of battery it takes and fit a new one." So I take out the trusty micro-swiss-army-knife I have clipped to my key-ring and set about the back of the watch. The knife has a little screwdriver thingammy, but the slot in the back of the watch that lets you lever the case open is very skinny, and the screwdriver won't fit. So I select the knife blade. "Careful," Muna (my girlfriend) says. "You'll cut yourself." "Nah, I know what I'm doing," I say. Just as I say this, the blade slips and slices into the very end of my thumbnail. No blood, no harm done. Just a notch in my nail. "Oops," I say. "That could have been nasty." "Yes, it could. Please stop," says Muna. "No, I won't stop till I really hurt myself," I joke. At exactly that moment the knife slips again and the point of the blade digs right into the ball of my thumb and blood shoots everywhere and I jump up and down going "Fuckity Fuck!" Which just goes to show that some people really don't know when to stop. Lem (Typing with 9 fingers today) Get your free E-mail at http://www.zdnet.co.uk/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 02:44:59 -0700 From: Robyn Moore Subject: Alloy: Gold Collection I've recently run across a copy of the Gold Collection CD as an import at one of the local music shops. However, I've been balking a bit at putting out $20 for it. Does anyone know if there're any rare versions or cuts on this that would make it worth the price? (Okay, so I'm occasionally cheap. ::grin::) Robyn M @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.alveus.com/kbrm/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 21:25:01 +1000 From: Paul Baily Subject: Re: Alloy: Jeeze Louise! On Thu, 5 Aug 1999, Chris Cracknell wrote: >Wow, a guy takes some time off the internet to get a little home >renovations done and everything goes ka-blooie! > >I don't know who pissed in whose wheaties or who twisted whose >nipples first but to be honest I don't really care. I haven't read >any of the e-mails that the fighting took place in, just all the >recent nasty afterbits. I don't want to know what the fight was >all about, that will just make things worse. > >If anyone wants some advice feel free to pick and choose from what >I've got to offer. [...] >I've said my bit, and I'm done with it. Inspiring words Crackers. Truly inspiring. Thank you. To this end, I propose... (see next msg.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 22:56:31 +1000 From: Paul Baily Subject: Alloy: The Cracknell Accord. Dear friends, I'm so thankful for Crackers' succinct and eloquent message earlier today. If it's any small consolation to any of you, I've felt like ^&%! the last 23 hours after sending my unfairly harsh message to the list. It has been added to my life's long list of deep regrets. Though I promised myself ages ago that I would never let my negative emotions get the better of me in an email, that if I had any doubt at all, I'd wait and reread it in the morning before sending it, I didn't do that, so I think the best I can to do to try to make up for it is to follow Crackers' excellent sage words and do this. Mary, Stephen, I am truly sorry for what I said, on this list of all places. It was inappropriate and extremely bad form of me. I hope one day you'll forgive me. I say that sincerely, without reservation, and offer no last words. I lay my public and private swords on the table before you (uh, hang on, 'private sword'? that didn't quite come out right...) Robin, I'm also truly sorry to you for overstepping my mark, letting my feelings - and ego - get the better of me on the list likely causing more turmoil rather than less. If I may, I'd like to propose an accord, named in honour of the person who provided a framework on which to build at a trying time. Please, please don't misunderstand me, I'm not in the least trying to be sanctimonious, I have no right nor inclination to do that since I'm one of the people most at fault. I'm merely offering this as a starting point in the hope that we can move on, and be better for the experience, and perhaps selfishly in the hope that I'll be able to sleep at night again. - ---------- The Cracknell Accord. 1. We agree that we shall particpate on this list known as an island of sanity to many, known as Alloy to all, in a fair, honest, honourable, and decent way. 2. We agree that by being a part of Alloy, even if in silence, we will do our very best to make newcomers welcome, we will do our very best to consider the feelings of others, and we will do our very best to watch out for each other, in the way that sincere friends do. 3. We agree that egos, bad attitude, and literary weaponry intended for less than benevolent means shall be checked at the door. We also agree that any misunderstandings should not be left to simmer unexplained or second-guessed, that friendship or at least civility is more valuable than pride. 4. We agree that whilst arguments will inevitably happen, we resolve to resolve them with good grace and maturity. We also resolve that failing a fair agreement, that the parties involved shall take said grievance offline. Subclause "Thinking Time": If said grievance truly involves the interest of the list, and if the parties are asked by one or more Alloy members to do so, ALL Alloy members agree to withold from commenting any further on the issue for no less than TWO days. 5. We agree that there is a spirit here that won't be broken and that we ALL shall do our very best to ensure that Alloy remains a place where we can all relax, be ourselves, and enjoy each others' company as The Gentleman Himself, Thomas Dolby Robertson, would intend. - ----------- So what do you think? Is this something that might work? That we could agree on? Any changes or additions? Maybe we can have a think about it over the weekend while Jeff's moving (good luck btw Jeff!) and see how it sits with us all? stay well, Paul. [who's not looking forward to a cold shower tomorrow morning: got home tonight to find that the hot water service has shat itself - water (as opposed to fruit juice) everywhere - talk about self-induced karma...] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:59:20 -0400 (EDT) From: andyjmail@cheerful.com Subject: Alloy: various Howdy, 1) I've ordered this 12x12 thing... yipee... 2) What's : DOLBY'S CUBE - 12" HUNGER CITY (featuring CHERRY BOMB) ???? Never heard of it... but it's up for grabs here : http://www.californiaalbums.com/1hitm.htm for a minimum 15 bucks. I do wish it wasn't in the "One Hit Male Wonders" section though :-) 3) I wonder if I can find a copy of this : http://www.awrc.com/review/d/silk_pyjamas_i.html if it means I can finally get a nice copy of Puppet Theatre... off to the record shop I go... 4) My TD pages will be slightly updated, if you allow an hour or two after this message is sent. It's next on my itinery to upload the changes. Those of you with Beatnik may get some music playing. It works for me, anyway. **** knows what happens for those without, hehe. http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Lot/8142/music/tmdr.html 5) A new page on my site shows a couple of pics you may not have seen yet... please wait for the link from my main page dated today. 6) don't unsubscribe! Please! Stay cool everyone, +Andy+ - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Get your free email from AltaVista at http://altavista.iname.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:57:43 -0400 (EDT) From: andyjmail@cheerful.com Subject: Alloy: my mistake, I'm sure Hello again... re: the music on my TMDR page... I freely admit I haven't a clue what's going on :-) On this machine, running a local copy, I get a Beatnik widget neatly in the middle of the page, that only plays when I F5 refresh (IE4). When it's uploaded to the site though, it plays first time, and I get a Beatnik widget on a white background the size of which appears to be governed by the width and height percentages in the EMBED tag. ????? On other machines here (no Beatnik installed) it appears as a MIDI file player - not surprising as the music is MIDI after all. And it's in different places on the page depending on whether it's on this machine (via sharing on the local network) or the WWWW version which is EXACTLY the same! Argh! I've no idea how this works or why it's inconsistent for me, I just copied it from http://www/danmansmusic.com/midi2/Thomas_Dolby/ which seems perfectly straightforward on my non-Beatnik machine, but on this one clicking on the mid files (from the "index of..." folder listing) gave me an html page with a Beatnik widget on it... using the EMBED tag that I pinched - the source of which is exactly the same URL!!??!! I'm confused. Any pointers in the right direction gratefully received, and apologies for any weird or unsettling results anyone suffers. OooOOooh I love computers :-) +Andy+ P.S. update to my long-running "I decided to buy a PC" saga... it's finally ready to go home... whoopee! - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Get your free email from AltaVista at http://altavista.iname.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:31:56 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: Brian Clayton Subject: Re: Alloy: Gold Collection On Fri, 6 Aug 1999, Robyn Moore wrote: > I've recently run across a copy of the Gold Collection CD as an import at > one of the local music shops. However, I've been balking a bit at putting > out $20 for it. Does anyone know if there're any rare versions or cuts on > this that would make it worth the price? (Okay, so I'm occasionally cheap. > ::grin::) It contains a mix of songs from TMDR's first three albums, with no rare tracks, so you may only wish to buy it as a "party disc" to throw into the CD shuffler. :) (or if you are a true collector!) BC - --- Brian Clayton "The main motive for going beyond the Rim... stemish@lns.com there's a heck of a big Taco Bell out there..." -- jms ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:36:57 -0600 From: Ernie Longmire/Lazlo Nibble Subject: Re: Alloy: various On Fri, Aug 06, 1999 at 09:59:20AM -0400, andyjmail@cheerful.com wrote: > 2) What's : DOLBY'S CUBE - 12" HUNGER CITY (featuring CHERRY BOMB) ???? Never heard of it... but it's up for grabs here : > http://www.californiaalbums.com/1hitm.htm "Hunger City" is a track from the Howard The Duck soundtrack. The only 12" I know of is a double-A-sided promo of the LP version. $15 is a ridiculously- high price for it, in my opinion - $1 or $2 in the cheapie bins would be more realistic. When in doubt, get this out: ! - -- Lazlo Nibble - lazlo@studio-nibble.com - http://www.studio-nibble.com -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:33:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Clayton Subject: Re: Alloy: Gold Collection On Fri, 6 Aug 1999, Robyn Moore wrote: > I've recently run across a copy of the Gold Collection CD as an import at > one of the local music shops. However, I've been balking a bit at putting > out $20 for it. Does anyone know if there're any rare versions or cuts on > this that would make it worth the price? (Okay, so I'm occasionally cheap. > ::grin::) If this is the "Premium Gold Collection," then it is the one that contains tracks from TMDR's first three albums, with no rare songs. BC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:39:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Clayton Subject: Re: Alloy: Gold Collection Oops, I thought the first messsage failed to be delivered, sorry! BC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 15:37:55 EDT From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: ouch Ouch! Having handled many a razor-sharp knife, I know exactly what it's like to have nicked or sliced fingers & need to type on 9 fingers or less (at one time I was down to about three..) But I applaud you for trying your hand at watch repair. Heal quickly, Robin T ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:06:41 EDT From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: The Cracknell Accord. Please don't worry, Paul. This issue has been extremely emotionally charged in every way for all of those involved, which is making all of us behave in manners in which we would never do normally. The membership of Alloy, above and beyond the call of duty, have been incredibly understanding and forgiving of my discrepancy in revealing the dispute on the list. I hope my attempt at explaining my much-lamented action (I lamented it before I even did it) is to everyon'es satisfaction, as much as possible without knowing what the dispute is about. Again, to everyone who wrote, thank you for being realistic enough to see me as not just the owner/manager/mediator of Alloy, but also as a bona fide member, with her own problems and dilemmas which are sometimes very difficult and awkward to resolve. The Accord sounds lovely. With Crackers' and Paul's permission, I'l love to publish it in the FAQ for everyone to refer to in case of future difficulties. I hope Thomas and everyone at Alloy will forgive me for messing up the list. Now.. can someone send me some marijuana, please??? And lots of it? (I've never been more serious!!) Nothing like it to quell a screaming migraine, like the one that's been coming on all day, or so i've heard.. Robin T ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:09:32 EDT From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: I got a job! (Now-Dolby related) Speaking of which, I've begun my preservation job at last. I have my own, HUGE desk & I absolutely love it there... everyone I work with is fantastic. I have some cool videos on restoration to vies over the weekend. If anyone needs any books repaired you know who to call :) Robin T ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:16:19 EDT From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Alloy: reminder of SMOE downtime Just a reminder before the weekend.. remember there is some down time for the server this weekend, which should be over on Sunday, or at the very latest, Monday... and that any posts you make during this time will be stored in the back-up server and retrieved once SMOE is back on line. Robin T ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:19:50 EDT From: DAbbitt32@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: "12 X 12 Original Remixes" In a message dated 8/5/99 9:14:56 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Stephen_Tilson@compuserve.com stated: << As the track listing was previously posted I won't parrot it here >> It was? I missed it! Anyone want to do me the great service of listing the tracks again for me? Thanks. - -Dabbitt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:39:04 EDT From: DAbbitt32@aol.com Subject: Alloy: Unsubscription & Interruption That Alloy members who have no interest in what's going on are unsubscribing only tells me that they shouldn't be subscribed in the first place. Enough said on that. I know this isn't considered a "public" forum in the most technical sense of the word (ala Paul's message to Stephen), but should that make it a dictatorship? Paul, I have to take a side on your stance toward Stephen, and I think it's wrong. I understand you wish to defend Robin, and Stephen's legaleze was utterly ridiculous, but I fail to see how such behavior should make someone eligible for a ban. We all have a right to be here, so long as we're not blatantly and repetitively abusive to one another, and we all have a right to our opinions on ALL matters. Stephen is (IMHO) merely voicing his opinion, certainly with bias and a rather obvious intent to sway other members' opinions, but just the same, he hasn't called Robin any names or plastered the list with four-letter words. Is this destroying this list? Puhhhhlease! Let's get real here. While this is definitely a diversion, it's nothing more than that, and it too shall pass. Let's all get over it and get on. If Robin and Stephen don't get along, fine. If they want to continue to belt at each other, fine. Eventually they'll both simmer down and everything will return to some state of "normality". Best, - -Dabbitt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:40:08 EDT From: DAbbitt32@aol.com Subject: Alloy: Post Script to My Last Diatribe I hope my last message doesn't qualify me for a ban from this list. Best, - -Dabbitt, who will not unsubscribe and therefore must be kicked out forcibly. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 14:44:35 -0700 From: Robyn Moore Subject: Re: Alloy: "12 X 12 Original Remixes" At 02:19 PM 8/6/99 , you wrote: > ><< As the track listing was previously posted I won't parrot it here >> > >It was? I missed it! Anyone want to do me the great service of listing the >tracks again for me? Thanks. > Here ya go...:) Notes: 12" mixes compilation Track Listing 1 Europa and the pirate twins 2 Windpower 3 Flying North 4 She blinded me with science 5 One of our submarines 6 Get out of the mix 7 Hyperactive 8 Dissidents (the search for the truth part 1) 9 May the cube be with you 10 Airhead 11 Hot sauce 12 My brain is like a sieve Robyn M @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.alveus.com/kbrm/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 14:45:29 -0700 From: Robyn Moore Subject: Re: Alloy: Gold Collection At 08:31 AM 8/6/99 , you wrote: > >On Fri, 6 Aug 1999, Robyn Moore wrote: > >> I've recently run across a copy of the Gold Collection CD as an import at >> one of the local music shops. However, I've been balking a bit at putting >> out $20 for it. Does anyone know if there're any rare versions or cuts on >> this that would make it worth the price? (Okay, so I'm occasionally cheap. >> ::grin::) > >It contains a mix of songs from TMDR's first three albums, with no >rare tracks, so you may only wish to buy it as a "party disc" to >throw into the CD shuffler. :) (or if you are a true collector!) Thanks a lot, Brian...I'll bear that in mind. :) Robyn M @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.alveus.com/kbrm/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:49:25 EDT From: DAbbitt32@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: various In a message dated 8/6/99 2:00:40 PM !!!First Boot!!!, andyjmail@cheerful.com wishes: << 3) I wonder if I can find a copy of this : http://www.awrc.com/review/d/silk_pyjamas_i.html if it means I can finally get a nice copy of Puppet Theatre... off to the record shop I go... >> I have it. Bought it online from a rare CD shop, and I must say, it's wonderful. Puppet Theater is there, but I was really in search of Fieldwork on CD, and that's what I got and I love it. Best, - -Dabbitt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:06:07 -0600 From: Ernie Longmire/Lazlo Nibble Subject: Re: Alloy: Unsubscription & Interruption On Fri, Aug 06, 1999 at 05:39:04PM -0400, DAbbitt32@aol.com wrote: > That Alloy members who have no interest in what's going on are unsubscribing > only tells me that they shouldn't be subscribed in the first place. Quite possible. So where do you suggest people go if they're interested in a list that's 80% discussion of Thomas Dolby and 20% discussion of everyone's personal life instead of the other way 'round? - -- Lazlo Nibble - lazlo@studio-nibble.com - http://www.studio-nibble.com -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:27:06 EDT From: DAbbitt32@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: Unsubscription & Interruption In a message dated 8/6/99 10:09:13 PM !!!First Boot!!!, lazlo@studio-nibble.com writes: << Quite possible. So where do you suggest people go if they're interested in a list that's 80% discussion of Thomas Dolby and 20% discussion of everyone's personal life instead of the other way 'round? >> Since Lazlo decided to give me a nibble, I'll bite back. This list has been filled with lots of off-topic miscellany since its inception. Recently we've been treated to extensive discussions on Microsoft Internet Explorer's technical merits (or lack thereof), authoritave speculation on whether or not JaMac's girlfriend was wearing a blue sequined or a brown chiffon dress in a picture he's displaying on his web page, and, oh yes, the personal squabble between Robin and Stephen. While, as a community, we all share one common thread, I'd like to think we're not so single-minded that we shouldn't be expected to go off-topic. Additionally, how many times can I repeat on this list that my favorite song is "Screen Kiss", and I really love that new "Astronauts and Heretics" album? Yeah, Beatnick's really cool and I loved messing around with it on the official Beatnick site, but not being a web tech-head makes me a fan of Thomas Dolby's music first and foremost, and quite frankly, he hasn't been putting much new stuff out these days to fuel my burning desire to talk about it. So I'm not complaining that we're showing our more human sides on Alloy. I think it's a boon for the list. I want to see more of it. In the meantime, did I mention that my favorite song is "Screen Kiss"? - -Dabbitt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:33:00 EDT From: DAbbitt32@aol.com Subject: Alloy: Mixing Business With Pleasure In an effort to minimalize the personal banter and maximize the discussion of all things Dolby, I felt I should incorporate the two parts of my life into one email, and share a tidbit with all of you. My girlfriend, a sweet young thing of only 23, hates Thomas' music. That's right, I said it. I know, hard to believe, and quite frankly, I never thought I would put up with anyone who didn't love hearing me sing "Screen Kiss" as much as I love hearing me sing "Screen Kiss", but here I am. She's really beautiful and lots of fun to hang out with and we're really good in bed together, but alas and alack, she just doesn't understand my fondness for Thomas' music. Case in point: The other night I received the "Live Wireless" laserdisc in the mail (bought it on Ebay! for less than $30.00!!!), and popped it in while we were cleaning house. She didn't know who it was, but immediately started complaining, saying, "I definitely don't like this music". Granted, the song was "Jungle Line", which isn't one of my faves, either, and is certainly on the more, ummmm, eccentric side, but her disposition didn't improve as the disc played on. C'est la vie! I hope you've all enjoyed this forray into my personal life, yet though somehow I've managed to maintain that Dolby edge. Bless you. - -Dabbitt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:02:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Elaine Linstruth Subject: Re: Alloy: Jeeze Louise! Hey here's another thing to think about. Crackers is absolutely right, for instance about not being afraid to take the first apology step. About two years ago, a member of my extended family treated me really badly. Not just said "boo," but I mean dumped a load of crap right on my head. After that, sides were drawn (weirdly) and I found myself being called names by all kinds of people, who believed I had said this and that, none of which I said btw, and it just was getting way out of hand. Add to that, most of you already know that I moved here to CA under duress, as it were.. I don't like it here, for a variety of reasons. This whole thing just made that bad situation worse. After a month or two, I decided to be the "big person," and say "ok, look, I'm sorry for whatever part I played in this big mess." That was not untruthful, but the fact was I really hadn't done anything wrong. If I had, I'd say so.. especially now, to you. But, there it was.. an apology on a table. Instead of getting a "well, ok. we're sorry too. Let's let bygones be bygones" I got 2 people "accepting" my apology, giving me the attitude that I'd better not let it happen again. This was the one who'd treated me like shit, (a member of someone's family who is only an in-law member of the one I married into) and the other who believed every word they said. In other words, these are people I could have sorta written off and ignored without any attempt at goodwill, seeing as they're just some people I know, basically. Silly me, trying to make peace! In any event, living with "taking the high road" is not necessarily easy. Sometimes being the adult is the most difficult thing to do. Everybody remember that in the examination of past disputes you've witnessed or been involved in, as well as future ones. Some days I literally wake up thinking about this, and how it makes my stomach churn. Still! - -- Elaine Linstruth Palmdale, CA (USA) On Thu, 5 Aug 1999, Chris Cracknell wrote: > If anyone wants some advice feel free to pick and choose from what > I've got to offer. > > Never be afraid to be the first one to say "I'm sorry." I can't tell > you how many fewer dear friends I would have if I didn't have > the courage to realize when I've been an ass and to apologise for it. > Friendship is more valuable than pride. Even an apology over things > you feel are trivial and unimportant may mean a lot to the other > party. And don't try to work "the last word" into your apology. > Just say you're sorry. > > When someone offers you an apology then accept it graciously, don't > try to work "the last word" into your acceptance. > > When you offer an apology and/or accept an apology don't bring the matter > up again. This includes when people ask you, "What was that fight all > about?" Chances are by explaining what started the fight you'll just > end up starting it all over again. When someone asks what started it > just say, "It doesn't matter, the issue has been resolved." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 19:48:46 EDT From: DAbbitt32@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: Jeeze Louise! In a message dated 8/6/99 11:08:04 PM !!!First Boot!!!, elaine@qnet.com saddened me by saying: << But, there it was.. an apology on a table. Instead of getting a "well, ok. we're sorry too. Let's let bygones be bygones" I got 2 people "accepting" my apology, giving me the attitude that I'd better not let it happen again. >> The moral of the story: Never apologize, it only shows weakness. In the animal kingdom, like let's say, in a pride of lions, if one lion were to apologize to another, he would surely be eaten by his contemporaries. That stomach-churning feeling Elaine talked about at the end of her email was /fear/. Yes, /fear/. Fear of being eaten. Remember that the next time you want to apologize. - -Dabbitt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 19:55:09 EDT From: DAbbitt32@aol.com Subject: Alloy: Post Script to My Last Message By the way, don't ask me where I come up with this crap. I'm totally making it all up as I go along. Yes, I'm also very very bored at work. - -Dabbitt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 21:56:24 EDT From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: Post Script to My Last Diatribe In a message dated 8/6/99 5:43:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DAbbitt32@aol.com writes: :: I hope my last message doesn't qualify me for a ban from this list. Best, -Dabbitt, who will not unsubscribe and therefore must be kicked out forcibly. :: Dabbit, you are an ornament to this list. Thanks for the giggle :) My focus is always on trying to keep Alloy a fair and pleasant place for everyone. But yes, in this case with Stephen, I snapped. It happens once every 2,000 years or so (that I snap). It will never happen again that anyone here will ever be forced to observe. Robin T bringing back an olive branch ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V4 #217 ***************************