From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V4 #214 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Wednesday, August 4 1999 Volume 04 : Number 214 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Alloy: ...that won't be broken ["Keith Stansell" ] Re: Alloy: This has got me worried! [RThurF@aol.com] Re: Alloy: List Protocol, etc. [RThurF@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:58:49 -0600 From: "Keith Stansell" Subject: Re: Alloy: ...that won't be broken I'm still waiting for those steak knives! Does this make me a charter member? I'm trying to remember what exact date I joined. I think it was early 1996. I still have a printout of a reply by TMDR himself of one of my first postings. I was so excited by that. Anyway, Just thought I'd pipe in since I heard my name. It is sad to see friends go, but ya know, they have a way of returning. Right Melissa? - -Keith (no longer the sole inhabitant - but you knew that) Stansell Paul wrote: >How many of you see /exactly/ the same friends and > acquaintances you had 5 or 10 or even 1 year ago? One? Three? Who- aw > c'mon Slarv, Keith, Crackers, you're just putting your hand up to see > what I'll say. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:27:49 EDT From: DAbbitt32@aol.com Subject: Alloy: List Protocol, etc. In the wake of this off-line conflict between Robin and Stephen (which, apparently, has been going on far longer than any of us might have guessed, and which also seems more serious than any of us might have known), I feel the need to throw my two-cents in. The recent goings-ons have raised some interesting points for me when it comes to Alloy, and these are what I really want to address, so sit back, read and enjoy. It's a rarity - I'm actually voicing my opinion on an Alloy matter (it may be a first, actually). I've been an Alloy member since before "Alloy", of course, this going back any number of years. Honestly, I don't remember how long. Mostly I've lurked, content to watch you all talk back and forth about all things Dolby (and some things not Dolby), and happy to every now and again see something from TMDR himself. Ok, quite frankly, I only stay a subscriber because I have a shallow hope that perhaps one day TMDR will bless us all with a new album and I'll be one of the first to hear the news via this list. Yes I'm kidding. Over the years I've come to regard each of you as friends. I log on, and I have mail. Not just a little mail either, usually I have gobs of it thanks to all of you. My co-workers and associates marvel at how full my mailbox always is. I'm sure this gives the impression that I'm a very important person. In a sense, I am, because I'm a member of one of the strongest mailing lists I've ever seen. Members here stay pretty much for life, it seems, and there's always activity of some sort or another. One thing this list has always had an abundance of is harmony. Maybe I've phrased that incorrectly. Maybe what this list has been sorely lacking is some disharmony. We're all individuals with our own ideas and opinions about things. A little disharmony every now and then isn't only a good thing, it's downright healthy. That Robin and Stephen hid their tiff through private email is a shame. Not only could it have possibly provided some really decent and chunky banter, but perhaps if they had aired out their dirty laundry amongst the rest of us we could have provided some counsel for either or both of them, and then maybe we wouldn't be where we are today (with Europa unsubscribing and all, amidst bad feelings). That said, I don't like to hear talk of "club protocol", or rules. We're all adults here, and I think we can handle pretty much whatever is thrown at us. Like a regular community we will have our disagreements and heavy discussions, and they may even disturb the "peace" mentioned in Robin's letter. That's no reason to hide them or shelve them. This is, after all, an open forum. Hell, I've had to endure recent endless emails on the benefits and detriments of IE4.0, how much more open can we get ? Ok, let's all play nice. I hope Europa decides to return to the list. Robin, I don't know what it means to be the administrator of this list, or what that entails, but for what it's worth, you're doing a great job. My mailbox keeps on filling up, so no complaints here. Best to all... - -Dabbitt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:35:30 EDT From: CJMark@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: RE: Alloy: VARIOUS Hey Lissu... Okay.. I'll let you know when I get the chance to be back there.. as I mentioned.. I'll likely be there next year for another convention. Stay in touch! Ciao for now.. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:48:38 EDT From: CJMark@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: ...that won't be broken (was: This has got me worried!) Hey Paul.. Well said.. well said. I will attempt to think of someone.. somewhere.. listening to a piece of wonderful Dolby music. (once I get my brain warmed up.) And for those of you who want to think of this spot.. Miami Beach is extremely hot and humid right now.. with massive thunderstorms each afternoon building over the everglades and working their way east to the coast. Today there were tornado warnings.. they get that serious. I love the Miami summer... the American and Canadian snow birds have all gone home.. only the most die hard tourists are here now.. Europeans that cook all day on the beach.. then fill the few clubs that are still open with their withering tanned faces. It's actually possible to drive down Washington Avenue on a Friday night.. during the winter and spring it resembles a parking lot from about 8pm to 3am.. the cars sit there. inching forward.. music rumbling out of each one louder than the next. But now you can even find a parking spot! And even with all the craziness.. I still enjoy it here immensely. It's like a small town.. really. My apartment.. my office.. the beach.. stores.. restaurants.. bars.. clubs.. everything is in a 5 x 15 block space. I walk everywhere.. or jump on my bike.. or my rollerblades.. It's really great. So.. for all you in the winter months.. cheer up with some heat sent directly from Miami Beach.. and for all you in the summer months.. be thankful you don't have to kick the air conditioner into high gear like we do here. Ciao for now. Mark (now returning to lurking mode) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 00:51:41 +0100 From: Slarvibarglhee Subject: Re: Alloy: This has got me worried! Robin, I was going to mail this directly to you, but then the more I looked at it, the more I thought it appropriate to send it to Alloy. I had absolutely no idea there was any problem between you and Steven and I certainly hadn't noticed you jumping on his (or anyone else's) toes, apart from that brief period a few months ago when we got all those 'one liners' from a couple of new subscribers. Even then I don't remember you taking the lead in trying to stamp down on anyone, it seemed more like a group effort to me. When I recently read 'Alloy: intro vs bio' I was puzzled, but thought it might have been a 'tongue in cheek' dig at Steven as I hadn't picked up on any other undercurrent, but I've been having to skim through a lot of mail recently, so may have just missed the lead up to it. Anyway, I'm sure you would not feel that you had to mail Alloy on this subject if it hadn't been causing you some concern and I'm sorry that you did feel it was necessary. For my part, I have no criticism of the way you look after Alloy (for one thing, I have no idea what's involved, how much time it takes, etc.) as everything seems to work transparently to me. I post messages and they appear a few minutes later. What we talk about is entirely up to us, and anyone not happy with the content can say so, keep quiet, or unsubscribe; it's their choice. But we've always treated each other with respect, there have been no real flame wars, though there has been the occasional unpleasantness which has usually been dealt with appropriately at the time. As has been said before, there's a limit to what we can say about Thomas or his work that hasn't been already been said, so we've had the freedom to go off-topic and that has added to the richness of Alloy. Other mailing lists I've subscribed to have died because members were unwilling to go off-topic, even when they'd exhausted the original subject of the list. I don't always agree with opinions expressed by other Alloyites, but they're THEIR opinions and they're as valid as mine. And I've only met one Alloyite in the flesh, and spoken to one other on the phone, but I dare say that if I met them all, there would be some that I might take an instant disliking to. It's not rational, but it can happen every time you meet someone new. We all like to think we're rational and give everyone a fair crack of the whip, but you can't like EVERYONE you meet. On a mailing list it's rather different, because your impressions can only be drawn from the written word, but even so, it's not difficult to take issue with things other people write, and if it's when they first subscribe you may well find it difficult to form a friendly relationship with them. Once those impressions are formed, it's not easy to revise them later. 'You don't get a second chance to make a first impression.' I'm still not sure at what point your dealings with Steven took a wrong turn, and I have absolutely no intention of aportioning blame (if blame is the right word), but my corespondence with both of you has always been friendly and I'm sorry things have come to a head in this way. That's my two dollars/pounds worth (too much for two cents/pence) and I hope *I* haven't upset anyone with my observations, which are no more valid than anyone else's. Bet wishes to ALL Alloyites :0) Slarv ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 00:11:08 -0400 From: MacSuirtain Subject: Re: Alloy: Beatnik's site DAbbitt32@aol.com wrote: > Question for you Melissa - Being that you live so close to where the actual > film was to have taken place, is the "Blair Witch" and the hauntings > surrounding those woods actual urban legend? My girlfriend and I were > debating as to whether or not the back-story the "documentary" was > researching was an actual urban myth or something made up by the > writer/director. According to folks from Burkittsville and the two guys who made the film, there is no real Blair Witch legend. Several folklorists have noted similarities in the legend the filmmakers created to "real" legends of American history, but this one is made up. Daniel Myrick and Eduardo Sanchez chose Burkittsville because they wanted the film set in a real town, old enough to be able to sustain this type of legend, so the line between reality and fantasy would be utterly blurred. Notice that you haven't seen any interviews with the three "stars" of the film. Brilliant marketing. No more to say. Don't want to ruin it for anyone else. (I actually did ruin it, accidentally, and I had to go back and delete what I wrote. It would stink to have someone take away the experience, just because she was tired and her brain wasn't working correctly.) My sleep schedule is totally screwed up. I'm now living on 4 hours a night - fretting a lot about work, but it's (if this is possible) a good kind of fret. I'm busy and challenged. It's past midnight. Must sleep now. Cheers, Melissa - -- Melissa R. Jordan Owner/Artist, Compass Rose Studios Unique Wearable Art in Large Sizes & Handstamped Handicrafts http://www.erols.com/jamesq/crs/welcome.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:31:05 EDT From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: This has got me worried! Slarvi, Thank you so much for your very well-stated letter. Of course I would never want there to be any sort of blame placed in the situation either way since it was meant to be strictly off list to begin with, because as I said in my letter, I don't like the idea of dragging other people into things & potentially dividing friends along 'party lines' as it were. That sort of behavior is not acceptable as far as I'm concerned on this list or elsewhere. I did however think all of you deserved an explanation of the fact that there was tension, and that I've indeed been trying my best to handle things in spite of this tension while not disrupting the list. Again, to everyone, I regret that things got so far out of hand & because of my frustration, ended up spilling onto the list after all. You deserve peace, and shouldn't have to witness conflict between members. As always, never hesitate to voice any problems or concerns, even if you think I'm awful & want to tear my head off about it. Please always remember that your view is every bit as valid as anyone else's & everyone has a free voice here. However, my hope is that it won't be an issue for much longer. After nearly two years of worrying myself sick about the situation, I really am tired of thinking about it & I just so desperately want it to go away!! Robin T Slarvi wrote: :: I don't always agree with opinions expressed by other Alloyites, but they're THEIR opinions and they're as valid as mine. And I've only met one Alloyite in the flesh, and spoken to one other on the phone, but I dare say that if I met them all, there would be some that I might take an instant disliking to. It's not rational, but it can happen every time you meet someone new. We all like to think we're rational and give everyone a fair crack of the whip, but you can't like EVERYONE you meet. On a mailing list it's rather different, because your impressions can only be drawn from the written word, but even so, it's not difficult to take issue with things other people write, and if it's when they first subscribe you may well find it difficult to form a friendly relationship with them. Once those impressions are formed, it's not easy to revise them later. 'You don't get a second chance to make a first impression.' I'm still not sure at what point your dealings with Steven took a wrong turn, and I have absolutely no intention of aportioning blame (if blame is the right word), but my corespondence with both of you has always been friendly and I'm sorry things have come to a head in this way. That's my two dollars/pounds worth (too much for two cents/pence) and I hope *I* haven't upset anyone with my observations, which are no more valid than anyone else's. Bet wishes to ALL Alloyites :0) Slarv :: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:47:36 EDT From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: List Protocol, etc. In a message dated 8/3/99 9:30:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DAbbitt32@aol.com writes: :: Like a regular community we will have our disagreements and heavy discussions, and they may even disturb the "peace" mentioned in Robin's letter. That's no reason to hide them or shelve them. This is, after all, an open forum. Hell, I've had to endure recent endless emails on the benefits and detriments of IE4.0, how much more open can we get ? Ok, let's all play nice. I hope Europa decides to return to the list. Robin, I don't know what it means to be the administrator of this list, or what that entails, but for what it's worth, you're doing a great job. My mailbox keeps on filling up, so no complaints here. :: Thanks :) For many reasons, I thought it best to play this particular set of problems down, but I do understand what you mean. You're saying this mailing list could use a few slap fights to liven it up? LOL :) ! Robin T ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V4 #214 ***************************