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alloy-digest Friday, April 23 1999 Volume 04 : Number 121
Today's Subjects:
-----------------
RE: Alloy: Colorado (off-topic) ["Ulfstedt, Louise" <louise.ulfstedt@tel]
Alloy: worst fears (off-topic, and then I'll shut up) [RThurF@aol.com]
RE: Alloy: worst fears (off-topic, and then I'll shut up) ["Ulfstedt, Lou]
Alloy: DISCOVERED! A RARE DOLBY ALBUM - SURELY NOT? [terry.overall@bt.c]
Alloy: Re: worst fears (off-topic, and then I'll shut up) ["Jennie Bolton]
Alloy: Re: worst fears (off-topic, and then I'll shut up) ["Jennie Bolton]
Alloy: Re: My Mother is a Goth [Keith Dawe <omega@freenet.toronto.on.ca>]
Alloy: apologies[off] ["Jennie Bolton" <jbolton@ooze.nwfsc.noaa.gov>]
RE: Alloy: worst fears (off-topic, and then I'll shut up) ["I T Admin @ G]
RE: Alloy: worst fears (off-topic, and then I too will shut up) [John Sch]
Alloy: Colorado (off-topic) [dalexander@juno.com]
Re: RE: Alloy: worst fears (off-topic, and then I'll shut up) [Chris Crac]
RE: Alloy: Colorado (off-topic) ["Beth Meyer" <bethmeyer@mindspring.com>]
Alloy: Beauty of a Dream [RThurF@aol.com]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:56:22 +0300
From: "Ulfstedt, Louise" <louise.ulfstedt@teleste.fi>
Subject: RE: Alloy: Colorado (off-topic)
Have to say that we're equally shocked and saddened up here in Scandinavia.
I can't help but feel that this wouldn't happen so easily here because gun
permits are SO hard to get hold of, but still, if not guns, maybe they would
have used some other method and maybe would have killed some, if not as many
innocents. And where are the parents of the perpetrators in all of this? And
how the hell do teenage boys like this get hold of weapons in the first
place? Didn't anyone suspect anything?
Maybe it's just that there are fewer people up here, and more of the village
mentality. Who knows. We can all speculate how this comes about. It's just
nuts. Maybe this kind of thing has always been happening, but the media
wasn't sufficiently developed to communicate earlier acts to the world?
Once again, I sigh and wonder how people can become such monsters.
Still, we have to hope for better times, and I have a feeling that a lot of
craziness will die down after the millennium passes,...I sometimes wonder
if, whether or not people believe anything will happen at the turn of the
century, the sub-conscious worry of "something" happening affects people's
judgement just like speculation does the stock market. I just hope no one is
stupid enough to use the millennium as an excuse to perpetrate some act of
violence, and then blame it on the will of whatever god they claim to
worship, in order to avoid having a conscious.
Hell, it's just a calendar date that not even everybody observes. Not
meaning to be blase in a time when so many terrible acts of violence are
happening, but at the turn of the century, I for one will be partying. Any
excuse.
My thoughts go out to the families and friends of those struck down in
Colorado.
Lissu
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith Stansell [SMTP:Keith@Stansell.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 2:53 AM
> To: alloy@smoe.org
> Subject: Re: Alloy: Colorado (off-topic)
>
>
> Lots of people are scratching there heads here.
>
> -Keith Stansell
> Denver
> >>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:44:11 EDT
From: RThurF@aol.com
Subject: Alloy: worst fears (off-topic, and then I'll shut up)
And of course, as predicted, things are beginning to get scary for those of
us who were and are not part of the mainstream 'yuppie' community. The news
is focusing on how to 'help' those who don't fit in at school (yet they never
define what they mean by 'fitting in'.. could be anything from not being able
to afford the latest fashions, to not liking Top 40 music, to being picked on
for being small, or quiet, etc)
The goth culture has absolutely nothing to do with these murders, but are
being roundly blamed for them on all the news shows I've seen. As I've
mentioned, every person I know who would be considered 'goth' is very gentle,
creative, interested in art and fashion and developing their intellects.
There are a few psychopaths in every community though - think of Ted Bundy,
the 'yuppie' killer. Also think of Charles Manson who emerged from the hippie
culture, then ask any hippie you know whether he represented the community at
large. The killers in the Colorado massacre are to the goth culture what
Charles Manson was to the hippies... case closed.
But here's one story... a friend on line owns a goth fashion clothing shop.
She lives in Colorado and is a single mom of a 16 year old boy and she's
working diligently to make ends meet... she makes all the clothes she sells &
runs an honest business. But as of yesterday she has received multiple death
threats via email and her phone answering machine, calling her a murderous
bitch, telling her they know where she lives & that her business will be
torched, etc etc. Her son is experiencing the same kind of attacks at school.
These are innocent people who are every bit as appalled and sickened by the
shootings as the rest of us. Yet they are being pinpointed because of their
appearance!
Everywhere Dave and I went yesterday we noticed an inordinate number of
people admiring us in long black trenchcoats (the only coats we own!) I have
a feeling this will get worse before it gets better. So if ...or when... I
get lynched because of the way I dress please contact Jeff @ smoe & arrange
someone to take care of Alloy for me.
Robin T
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:05:43 +0300
From: "Ulfstedt, Louise" <louise.ulfstedt@teleste.fi>
Subject: RE: Alloy: worst fears (off-topic, and then I'll shut up)
Oh, Robin! This is awful!
Since when did Goth style have ANYTHING to do with the ultra-right Nazi
styling of those boys?
Let's just hope that all this madness will pass.
I never could understand people who think difference is something negative.
I always thought of it being something to celebrate.
I hope no one over there would be stupid enough to target someone just
because they wear a long dark coat,...good god! Utter madness!...that means
at least two of my friends would be targeted because they liked Deckard's
coat in the film Bladerunner and bought similar ones!
AH well,...I'll re-lurk now for a while,...rant mode off.
Lissu-the-weird-dressed-kid-of-a-cool-ex-hippy-mom :-)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RThurF@aol.com [SMTP:RThurF@aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 2:44 PM
> To: alloy@smoe.org
> Subject: Alloy: worst fears (off-topic, and then I'll shut up)
>
>
>
> And of course, as predicted, things are beginning to get scary for those
> of
> us who were and are not part of the mainstream 'yuppie' community. The
> news
> is focusing on how to 'help' those who don't fit in at school (yet they
> never
> define what they mean by 'fitting in'.. could be anything from not being
> able
> to afford the latest fashions, to not liking Top 40 music, to being picked
> on
> for being small, or quiet, etc)
>
> The goth culture has absolutely nothing to do with these murders, but are
> being roundly blamed for them on all the news shows I've seen. As I've
> mentioned, every person I know who would be considered 'goth' is very
> gentle,
> creative, interested in art and fashion and developing their intellects.
> There are a few psychopaths in every community though - think of Ted
> Bundy,
> the 'yuppie' killer. Also think of Charles Manson who emerged from the
> hippie
> culture, then ask any hippie you know whether he represented the community
> at
> large. The killers in the Colorado massacre are to the goth culture what
> Charles Manson was to the hippies... case closed.
>
> But here's one story... a friend on line owns a goth fashion clothing
> shop.
> She lives in Colorado and is a single mom of a 16 year old boy and she's
> working diligently to make ends meet... she makes all the clothes she
> sells &
> runs an honest business. But as of yesterday she has received multiple
> death
> threats via email and her phone answering machine, calling her a murderous
>
> bitch, telling her they know where she lives & that her business will be
> torched, etc etc. Her son is experiencing the same kind of attacks at
> school.
> These are innocent people who are every bit as appalled and sickened by
> the
> shootings as the rest of us. Yet they are being pinpointed because of
> their
> appearance!
>
> Everywhere Dave and I went yesterday we noticed an inordinate number of
> people admiring us in long black trenchcoats (the only coats we own!) I
> have
> a feeling this will get worse before it gets better. So if ...or when... I
>
> get lynched because of the way I dress please contact Jeff @ smoe &
> arrange
> someone to take care of Alloy for me.
>
> Robin T
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:54:11 +0100
From: terry.overall@bt.com
Subject: Alloy: DISCOVERED! A RARE DOLBY ALBUM - SURELY NOT?
Just visited http://www.cdzone.co.uk and did a search on TMDR which came
back with an import album by Revi Iki(?) and Thomas Dolby called 'Cathexis'.
I might be well behind the times here, but I've certainly not heard of this
one.
Anyone else seen or heard of this rarity?
TEL
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:01:51 -0700
From: "Jennie Bolton" <jbolton@ooze.nwfsc.noaa.gov>
Subject: Alloy: Re: worst fears (off-topic, and then I'll shut up)
Robin wrote:
>And of course, as predicted, things are beginning to get scary for those of
>us who were and are not part of the mainstream 'yuppie' community. The news
>is focusing on how to 'help' those who don't fit in at school (yet they
never
>define what they mean by 'fitting in'.. could be anything from not being
able
>to afford the latest fashions, to not liking Top 40 music, to being picked
on
>for being small, or quiet, etc)
And of course, those applied to me as well. And I have been getting hassled
this week because the night before this happened, I happened to dye my hair
black. Now I'm being asked if I have a trenchcoat (I have an old London Fog
raincoat that I got at Goodwill years ago), and warned not to wear it. Are
people insane?!
Totally perplexed,
Jen (:^
____________________________________________________
Jennie Bolton, Research Chemist
Northwest Fisheries Science Center ·
Vice-Chair, Pionus Breeders Association
<http://users.aol.com/apionus/PBAPAGE.HTM>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:01:51 -0700
From: "Jennie Bolton" <jbolton@ooze.nwfsc.noaa.gov>
Subject: Alloy: Re: worst fears (off-topic, and then I'll shut up)
Robin wrote:
>And of course, as predicted, things are beginning to get scary for those of
>us who were and are not part of the mainstream 'yuppie' community. The news
>is focusing on how to 'help' those who don't fit in at school (yet they
never
>define what they mean by 'fitting in'.. could be anything from not being
able
>to afford the latest fashions, to not liking Top 40 music, to being picked
on
>for being small, or quiet, etc)
And of course, those applied to me as well. And I have been getting hassled
this week because the night before this happened, I happened to dye my hair
black. Now I'm being asked if I have a trenchcoat (I have an old London Fog
raincoat that I got at Goodwill years ago), and warned not to wear it. Are
people insane?!
Totally perplexed,
Jen (:^
____________________________________________________
Jennie Bolton, Research Chemist
Northwest Fisheries Science Center ·
Vice-Chair, Pionus Breeders Association
<http://users.aol.com/apionus/PBAPAGE.HTM>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:49:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Keith Dawe <omega@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Alloy: Re: My Mother is a Goth
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Jennie Bolton wrote:
> And of course, those applied to me as well. And I have been getting hassled
> this week because the night before this happened, I happened to dye my hair
> black. Now I'm being asked if I have a trenchcoat (I have an old London Fog
> raincoat that I got at Goodwill years ago), and warned not to wear it. Are
> people insane?!
This IS insane! We're no worse than those two youths that
killed minorities and jocks if we end up lynching Goths. Stop and
think, people, is there any difference in our attitudes then????
Assuming that Goths are Nazis because a couple of bogus Goths behaved
that way, is like assuming I'm a Nazi because I'm part German.
I feel sick.
And yes, my mother is a Goth (HUGE Sisters of Mercy fan). :-)
- --omega
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:33:37 -0700
From: "Jennie Bolton" <jbolton@ooze.nwfsc.noaa.gov>
Subject: Alloy: apologies[off]
And I seem to have somehow double-posted as well? How'd that happen?
Sorry!
Wishing it were Friday already
Jen (:^
____________________________________________________
Jennie Bolton, Research Chemist
Northwest Fisheries Science Center ·
Vice-Chair, Pionus Breeders Association
<http://users.aol.com/apionus/PBAPAGE.HTM>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:19:10 +0100
From: "I T Admin @ Govt Office North West" <help.gonw.st@gtnet.gov.uk>
Subject: RE: Alloy: worst fears (off-topic, and then I'll shut up)
Madness on top of madness. Hell, EVERYONE is a misfit of some sort, if you
look for it. And some of the most evil murderers in recent years have been
distinguished by their 'ordinariness,' but no one starts saying all
'ordinary' people should be attacked because of this.
Unfortunately the lynch-mob mentality breaks out at times like this, and
rational thought goes right out of the window. Some people seem to be just
waiting for this kind of thing to happen so they can crawl out of the
woodwork and get away with behaviour that would simply not be tolerated by
society at other times, and some poor souls who are just minding their own
business and trying to get on with their lives suffer as a result.
What happened in Colorado is too terrible to contemplate, but it's only the
most recent in a spate of similar events, each worse than the last. Those of
us in Europe generally find it hard to understand why guns are so easily
obtainable in the U.S. after all these murders, but we understand that
rights to bear arms under the constitution, and the strong and influential
gin lobby, make it extremely difficult to pass legislation banning firearms.
But we too scratch our heads and wonder how bad a massacre needs to take
place before legislation can be forced through.
Ex-hippy (now 'ordinary') Slarv's two penny-worth
At 16:05 22/04/99 +0300, Lissu wrote:
>
>Oh, Robin! This is awful!
>Since when did Goth style have ANYTHING to do with the ultra-right Nazi
>styling of those boys?
>Let's just hope that all this madness will pass.
>I never could understand people who think difference is something negative.
>I always thought of it being something to celebrate.
>
>I hope no one over there would be stupid enough to target someone just
>because they wear a long dark coat,...good god! Utter madness!...that means
>at least two of my friends would be targeted because they liked Deckard's
>coat in the film Bladerunner and bought similar ones!
>
>AH well,...I'll re-lurk now for a while,...rant mode off.
>
>Lissu-the-weird-dressed-kid-of-a-cool-ex-hippy-mom :-)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:04:40 +-1000
From: John Schofield <john@police.tas.gov.au>
Subject: RE: Alloy: worst fears (off-topic, and then I too will shut up)
I understand the horror which those people involved in this latest massacre must be going through - my heart goes out to them. Unfortunately it doesn't matter where you are in the world, there is evil everywhere. That is the only way to explain the driving force behind these twisted individuals.
Lissu, even in your seemingly safe community there are probably a number of people who are capable of doing these monstrous deeds. I thought Tasmania was the quietest and safest place in the world until a young man named Martin Bryant went on a rampage in September 1994 killing 35 people and wounding 21. As part of the Police here in Tassie I had the misfortune of having to attend the scene(s) of these brutal slayings.
I have never been to a war zone but I believe I now know what it's like. Worse than the actual bodies though (of which I've seen a few) was the utter fear and desperation on the faces of the survivors and family members of the victims. And that blank, staring look - you see it on the faces of fleeing Ethnic-Albanians - you see it on the faces of prison camp refugees.
The victims are gone but the family members and loved ones have to live with the horror of these events for the rest of there lives. There were no reasons for Martin Bryants actions. He wasn't a 'goth'. He wasn't a 'nazi' or even a 'hippy'. The press didn't have any labels they could pin on him. By all accounts he was just an ordinary 28 year old.
It seems that in order to make us all feel more secure, society tends to try and pigeon-hole murderers like these. The reality is these people are out there and no amount of gun control legislation will stop this happening. By all accounts the two youths involved in this latest massacre had home made nail guns and bombs also included in their arsonal. How do you stop that?. Gun control only stops the spur-of-the-moment killers. These two boys and Martin Bryant had put a lot of preparation into their plans.
What's the answer?
Lets hope for brighter days for the future - the 'Golden Millennium'.
John
(john@police.tas.gov.au)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:23:14 -0600
From: dalexander@juno.com
Subject: Alloy: Colorado (off-topic)
I don't think there is an answer, at least not a human answer. What
people fail to realize is how much human society has changed in the last
100 years. We weren't there so we don't remember it, let alone the last
6,000 years. But mankind, in general, has always shifted between
extremes; peace/war. Attitudes have always swung from one side of the
pendulum to the other.
The Roman Empire was a mighty machine, that, without any of our modern
technology, was able to dominate lands spreading across continents. And
though it brought a lot of bad (death by war, slavery, and such), it
brought a lot of good (peace, prosperity). But then people got too lazy
(my key word here through out this entire discussion) in their prosperity
and freedom and went for hedonism. In the end, the basic unit of
civilization, the family, disintegrated, and that vast, dynamic, powerful
empire came to a slow, grinding halt that no one noticed, until it was
too late. The sword did not destroy it, peoples attitudes got lazy.
Somehow, in our modern world, with our efforts to make life simpler with
our technology and such, so many of us have become lazy in ways that we
cannot become lazy; in particular, child-rearing. The family unit began
to disintegrate in the 50's. The 50's are filled with all sorts of gross
wrongdoing that everyone covered up. It didn't start to show until the
60's when the youth began to rebel against what they new to be wrong.
They swung to far the other way. Their children swung the pendulum the
other way and now we have such a clash of thought, that things have
become a real mess. But no one has noticed; at least not on any
noticeable scale.
Now, I'm 100% against child abuse (the thought of it churns my blood in
rage against the abuser) but I am 100% for discipline. Too many people
and societies believe that physical discipline is harmful and it
absolutely is not. Now every child is different; some you can beat until
your exhausted and they will never even recognize that you're there but
others, you only need to sit down and reason with and they will be in
tears.
But discipline does not mean, spanking, yelling and such, but it implies
so much more. The reason for discipline should be for reaching the heart
of the youngster and teaching them to value good and to hate what is bad.
To teach by principles, not just by rules. To instill in them virtues,
manners, self-esteem and the value of these things. All of this goes
beyond discipline to teaching, encouraging, being a good example and
showing love; true, genuine love.
Today too many parents send their kids off to day-care and when they do
see them they rush them out-of-doors so they can get some peace and
relaxation; Not realizing that, more than anything else, they need to
have some recreation (or as Stephen Covey puts it "re-creation") with
their whole family. Turning off the TV and stereo and video games,
forgetting about the movies or eating out. Doing something creative with
their children and spouses and teaching them how important love is and
how to make it stronger.
This is the very root of our problems today. Honestly, when I heard the
news, it did not surprise me at all. Not one bit. That doesn't mean I
like it at all, but there really is nothing I can do. No matter what I
say or do, humankind will not pay attention. And if they do listen, then
they probably agreed with me already. So how do you catch the problem?
What can you do personally?
We can continue to enforce new laws and restrictions, we can encourage
more programs to teach people the values and responsibilities of
parenthood and love and citizenship. But these can only do so much.
Look how many programs and laws we already have and the results they have
created. Some good, some bad.
But the most important thing anyone can do, is to make sure that they
themselves are doing their very best.
It's hard for me to understand how so much of our society has never
learned how to be and what it means to be a good person, a good citizen,
a good parent, a good child, a good worker.
I'm not trying to be grossly blatant here because, believe me, it cuts to
my heart. There have been very few news reports that actually brought
tears to my eyes and this was one of the greatest. It hit me several
times in the last few days. But with mankind, there is no real answer.
The problem is simply too big and complex.
Of course, I personally know that there is a complete and final solution,
but that digresses into my own spiritual beliefs. - "It does not belong
to man who is walking even to direct his steps." - Jeremiah 10:23.
___________
JAMac (Dennis S. Alexander)
www.dennisa.com - Nutrition/Income Opportunities
"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams" -
Eleanor Roosevelt
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:52:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Cracknell <ad329@hwcn.org>
Subject: Re: RE: Alloy: worst fears (off-topic, and then I'll shut up)
It's funny all these schools thinking of banning the "trench coat" (because
naturally if a kid goes nuts and starts shooting people, the fault clearly
lies with hir clothing).
Back in the early 80s when I was in highschool, the only people who wore
trenchcoats were people like myself who were really into the New Wave scene
and the ultra-rightwing conservative christian students (with a haircut you
could file your nails on). We didn't have too many Deathbunnies in my
school when I was in highschool and oddly enough they didn't wear trenchcoats
but black leather-biker jackets.
"Deathbunny" for those of you who don't know is the term "Goths" used to
refer to themselves way back in the early 70s before the media labeled
them as "Goths". Of all the deathbunnies I've met since 1985 only about
1 in 50 even knows what the term deathbunny means or even realizes that
their "Goth" culture goes that far back. Granted, most deathbunnies now adays
are from the Nintendo Generation and don't even realize there was history
before 1980. Since Deathbunny culture was confined to a very small fringe
group of Baby Boomers who mostly grew out of it in the 80s to put on the
suit and tie and a larger group of Gen-X who are all now 30-somethings
and are begining to settle down into mainstreme suberbia, I guess I really
can't blame the Nintendo Generation for not knowing much about the roots
of their subculture and for embracing the name "Goth" which the original
Deathbunnies absolutely hated with a passion. On an interesting side note,
my friend in Japan tells me that a very large segment of the "Goth" scene
refers to themselves as "Deittobaani" (Deathbunny). Of course a lot of
people in Japan think that the Monkees is a currently produced TV-series,
so I guess it's not too suprising they'd be hip to this now obscure gem
of 70s slang.
The Hamilton deathbunny scene is completely different from the deathbunny
scene I once knew. Two things that the deathbunnies I grew up with would
never, ever do would be 1)Hang out at a mall and 2)sit on a street corner
begging for cash. These are two things the Hamilton "goths" do in abundance.
They seem to really enjoy pretending their street kids and begging for
cash. Of course they're all careful to make sure they're home in time
for supper then they're back out on the street panhandling a bit more
before they have to be home and in their nice cozy beds. It's particularily
sad when they sit near some poor old 63 year old lady who has been homeless
since the government shut down the psychiatric hospital she was living in
and put her out on the street. Occaisionally I will run into one whose
parents I know. It's a lot of fun when they're giving some rube their
"I've been living on the street since I was 12" routine to walk up to
them and go, "Hey Danny, when you get home tonight could you tell your
parents I'm having a BBQ this weekend and you're all welcome to come by."
Another thing different about neo-deathbunnies and the deathbunnies of
my youth is that the social pressures of fitting in, which most deathbunnies
became deathbunnies to avoid, are extremely strong in today's "Goth" culture.
I've seen many teen-gothlings get picked on, not by the Jocks and the A-crowd
but by other gothlings. Why? Oh because they didn't like the same Goth band
that the rest of them liked, or they didn't wear the same Goth T-shirt
as the rest of the Goths, or because they didn't have the same Goth Jewelry
as the rest of the Goths. If you're a kid who already doesn't fit in with
the mainstreme crowd at school and then have the misfortune to live in a
place where you can't even find acceptance with the outcast crowd it's
no wonder you'd develope strong anti-social feelings.
This is what the Hamilton "goth" scene is like and I can't help but wonder
if that was what the "goth" scene was like in that Colorado town. Perhaps
these two kids wern't so much lashing out at a mainstreme culture they felt
alienated from, but were trying to win the approval of a subculture they
felt even more alienated from.
As for the anti-goth backlash in Hamilton as a result of the shootings,
goth clothing hasn't been banned but things haven't been helped much
here due to the fact that the Hamilton "goth" scene was already highly
influenced by neo-nazism (yet another difference between the deathbunnies
of my day and the "goths" of today). Given the fact that the Hamilton
"goth" culture is already one that requires a great deal of conformity
from its members some of them view these two kids from Colorado as
heros and martyrs. A number of "goths" have been sent to the pricipal's
office today for pointing at fellow students and saying "you're next".
Not at all a bright thing to do, but there have been no reported acts of
physical violence by goths or anti-goths.
I really don't understand the anti-goth backlash. These two kids felt
alienated and picked on so I don't really think it makes much sense to
further alienate and pick on goths.
Although I'm sure there will be some "wanna-be" acts of violence and
vandelism here sparked by the Colorado shootings I doubt it will be anything
on a grand scale. That's one of the advantages of living in a country where
you can't just buy firearms from a vending machine.
The provincial government has been trying for some time to pass a bill to
make school uniforms manditory in all public schools. I have a feeling
they've just been handed more ammo. But if anyone thinks problems like this
will go away with uniforms they're fooling themselves. Laying blame for
the shootings on goth appearal is as pointless as laying blame on music,
movies, TV, and videogames. Fashion and media may reflect a problem but
they arn't the cause of it.
CRACKERS
(They times they are a' changing from hell!!)
- --
Collector of Atari 2600 carts - Accordionist - Bira Bira Devotee - Anime fan
* http://www.hwcn.org/~ad329/crab.html | Crackers' Arts Base *
* http://www.angelfire.com/ma/hozervideo/index.html | Hozer Video Games *
Nihongo ga dekimasu - 2600 programmer - Father of 2 great kids - Canadian eh
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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:02:13 -0400
From: "Beth Meyer" <bethmeyer@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Alloy: Colorado (off-topic)
Hi, folks;
Well, perhaps I should apologize for adding to an already way off-topic
thread, but oh well -- at least the subject line allows those who are
uninterested to identify it and skip reading it. But there was a remark
that I just had to comment on:
Robin wrote:
>The horror that all parents of school-age children must be feeling now,
>doubtlessly worrying that such a thing can happen in their own community,
and
Well, you can omit that "of school-age" phrase there and still be pretty
accurate. I suspect that all the other parents on the list know this too,
but I found that having a baby really turned my emotional world upside down.
Specifically, there was so much horror in the world that I was able to
bravely face before, that now is just too painful to bear. It seems to be
the flip side of having so much love for a little one. It hit me especially
hard because, as I was spending long hours in the rocking chair feeding my
newborn, I had the radio tuned to NPR and would hear some four hours of news
every day, plus updates every hour. As the horror stories from Kosovo
started to pile in, I would hear accounts of the terrible suffering and
death of innocent people, including children, and just weep. Every time I
looked at Milena, I was haunted by this awful feeling almost of "survivor's
guilt." I wondered how was it that I got to sit and hold my precious baby
in peace and prosperity, while other mothers not too different from me had
to watch helplessly as their children died of exposure or were hurt or
killed by thugs or shelling? I was getting so depressed that Mark finally
had to insist that I shut off the news and listen to CDs instead. And just
when it seemed to be safe to listen to the news again, this happened just on
the other side of town. I guess it served to remind me that even this
feeling that my own child is safe is somewhat illusory. So anyway, I'm
spending an awful lot of time these days holding Milena close (not that I
wouldn't anyway, but you know what I mean).
The line that comes to mind is, "How could a hand as gentle as yours soften
a hard nut like this one?" Consider this hard nut softened...
- --Beth
Beth Meyer
bethmeyer@mindspring.com
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:09:24 EDT
From: RThurF@aol.com
Subject: Alloy: Beauty of a Dream
In a message dated 4/22/99 10:03:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
bethmeyer@mindspring.com writes:
:: The line that comes to mind is, "How could a hand as gentle as yours soften
a hard nut like this one?" ::
It's interesting that you mention this in relation to your daughter, because
when I hear this song I think of it as Thomas' own feelings on becoming a
father, perhaps..
Robin T
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End of alloy-digest V4 #121
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