From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V4 #77 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Tuesday, March 9 1999 Volume 04 : Number 077 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Alloy: KUBRICK [Debrah LaRue ] Alloy: KUBRICK ["Stephen M. Tilson" ] Alloy: Yo again [Andy Venables ] Re: Alloy: Yo again [RThurF@aol.com] Re: Alloy: Dolby Covers ["LL Frattarola" ] Alloy: Talk Talk??! [Andy Venables ] Re: Alloy: Talk Talk??! [Keith Dawe ] Alloy: Talk Talk??! [Robert Latham ] Alloy: Talk Talk??! [Robert Latham ] Re: Alloy: Talk Talk??! [Keith Dawe ] Re: Alloy: Talk Talk??! [Robyn Moore ] Re: Alloy: News about Thomas..! ME TOO sorta [Elaine Linstruth ] Re: Alloy: Attention Bjork fans [Debrah LaRue ] Re: Alloy: paranormal/philosophy/Jung [Debrah LaRue ] Re: Alloy: Attention Bjork fans [Robyn Moore ] Alloy: Andy's cats [RThurF@aol.com] Re: Alloy: Attention Bjork fans ["Keith Stansell" ] Re: Alloy: paranormal/philosophy/Jung [RThurF@aol.com] Re: Alloy: philosophy [RThurF@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 23:33:07 -0700 From: Debrah LaRue Subject: Re: Alloy: KUBRICK Alloyites sorry to write again on a Sunday night! For those who have not heard Stanley Kubrick is dead at 70. I feel the same as if someone had just told me David Lynch was dead. If I had to quickly name only 3 favourite directors that would be 2/3. 3? Ken Russell maybe... Kubrick pushed the edge with clockwork orange for me, but at least it WAS science fiction, a possible future, maybe a warning. Ultra-violent films today are in real time about real things (Tarentino; cringe) and I am unable to accept it as an art form...gee a little opinionated tonight? I don't believe in censorship, it just smacks of that direction/evolution I don't wish our human species to head for. I do wonder how many Kubrick fans are here, and I wonder if himself; Thomas Dolby was a fan too. Thanks for your letter about your own experience=========== > > So how did my mother cope? My mother took small steps and There are degrees of illnesses, from light to severe, the more of them you have, the harder it gets maybe? ***shrug*** The longer you stay in denial without seeking help, the more phobias you'll embrace? Too much brain activity that is over-stimulating can end up causing a strong imagination to easily conjure up art (or) monsters? You have to think your way out in time. My mind is blasted with constant stimuli, even my nightmares go way too far. I would rarely sleep without medicine that slows the brain down. I somehow wrote in Latin one night in sleep. (found it the next morning) I really would be in major trouble, possibly schizophrenic by now (sp?) But my reaction to the dreaming/cacoëthes scribendi, was to buy 3 Latin dictionaries, read them cover to cover and try to accept that maybe in a different century I DID know Latin, maybe we know things we don't know we know? I became fascinated by Latin from the odd experience; so I make good out of fear sometimes... who > would rush her home if she had an attack. Eventually, she could go I don't fear them anymore; I fear the fear of them. I have had maybe 3 in the last year, that's all. It's fear/phobia period. My boyfriend kicking my ass about it will either be a good thing or it will kill me. I am trying to at least "imagine" going to Europe this Summer with him, me in a plane? ha ha ha. Me, going more than one hour from home? Do I want to grow old and die without ever seeing Britain, France, Holland at least? Never see pere l'achaise? Never see the Giza pyramids except on the discovery science channel? Australia never? I AM thinking about it, over the next few months...that is... > steps (and your boyfriend who loves you should understand. He'd better!) > > --omega ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 04:21:49 -0500 From: "Stephen M. Tilson" Subject: Alloy: KUBRICK > For those who have not heard Stanley Kubrick is dead at 70. Shit. I was and will remain a fan. His name crossed my lips just yesterday. He will be missed - mad or no. /\/\iles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:19:05 -0000 From: Andy Venables Subject: Alloy: Yo again Howdy folks, I dug out my copy of Live Wireless on Friday night, it dawned on me that I'd replaced the old stereo VCR since the last time I'd played this tape through... I crossed my fingers and hoped it would sound better than it did on the old machine (all dull on one channel) ... and... perfect! So now I have a copy of Urban Tribal on minidisc that's better than the scratchy old flexi-disc one. Marvellous... trouble is... it's now revealed other imperfections - it sounds like the videotape was mastered from a dodgy cassette ... there are dropouts and momentary disturbances in the left/right balance.. is this the case with anyone else's copies? I don't believe these effects are possible with the VHS Hifi stereo FM carrier system.. and other tracks on the videotape sound OK. One day when I finally get my new PC home (BIG problems with the Creative Labs SBLive! card) I'm going to have a go at cleaning it all up as much as possible. And I'll be converting every track I have to MP3 for entertainment purposes here at work, I can hardy wait. I gave Astronauts and H... a spin too on Friday night... it sounded horrible on my minidisc earbuds... what a disappointment. Not enough treble - and the levels were all over the place. Hmmm... more fun to be had with PC editing software I hope. And when listening to Eastern Bloc... "Too bad I don't get News at Ten, because the CNN tells a different story" (I can only hang my head in shame if I've mangled that - but I'm not an obsessive you know - if I passed Thomas in the street I'd probably leave him alone, who needs to be bothered by fans all the time?) for those of you not in the UK I can report that News at Ten finished it's 30 year run on Friday night. This was "the People's News" on ITV, Britain's 2nd ever TV channel - the first commercial one - more down to Earth than the 9 o'clock BBC news. ITV want to screen movies uninterupted now.. so the news had to move. Another British TV item - for those who enjoy Red Dwarf - we are enjoying Series VIII now - boy are you going to enjoy it! Much improved after the last, rather flat series, it's back on form. The episodes are no longer self-contained though... it's one long story-line now, which means the first minute or two is "wasted" re-telling the story so far. But it is Good. Very Good. Rimmer is back. So too in fact, is the entire crew.... Must do some work I suppose... take care.. +Andy+ PS if anyone thinks a little bad Kharma should have come my way recently, well... I had a tooth out on Friday... stitches out tomorrow... I've had quite a week-end of soreness and relentless dull pain. Will that suffice??!! more PS I reckon the THE would do a wonderful rendition of Weightless. I can just imagine the guy's voice on the "fuitjuice everywhere" bit.. it would be excellent. Dusk is one of my fave albums ever... try it if you haven't already. Then again... it's such a personal thing this "taste" business... I wish I knew why Prefab Sprout completely fails to move me. You all seem to like it - but I bought an album and can only tolerate one track! It was great to hear Thomas towards the end of Machine Gun Ibiza when I was enjoying it already - the icing on the cake. The rest of it though... just doesn't float my boat - and I feel that it ought to for some reason! Ah well.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 07:19:42 EST From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: Yo again In a message dated 3/8/99 5:37:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, andyv@FINALYSYS.com writes: << I had a tooth out on Friday... stitches out tomorrow... I've had quite a week-end of soreness and relentless dull pain. >> Ouch, Andy, that sounds terrible! I hope you heal up quickly once those stitches are gone.. As for Dolby songs we'd like to see others cover, I know I'd like to hear Rasputina do Urges. The music is so wonderfully energetic & Melora's voice could do some very strange things with that vocal line. Chris Vrenna would have some interesting programming/percussion work to do with this, if he were to accompany them on it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 08:56:12 -0500 From: "LL Frattarola" Subject: Re: Alloy: Dolby Covers Here's a few that my hubby and I thought of: Bono- I Scare Myself Kate Bush-just about any Dolby song! Elton John-Beauty of a Dream David Bowie-Eastern Bloc &Europa & the Pirate Twins Enigma- I Love You Goodbye Brian Setzler Orchestra-Keys To Her Ferrari My hubby and I are big Queen fans too, a recent discussion was, Mr. Dolby doing covers of Queen stuff. I Can't Live With You Dreamer's Ball Flash I'm Going Slightly Mad These were some of ours. What other songs/artist covers do you guys think Mr. Dolby could do a great & interesting version of? Lucinda ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:00:10 -0000 From: Andy Venables Subject: Alloy: Talk Talk??! Yo again, Well I've got back to digest #343 in the previous volume... about Christmas time... There was a vague reference to Thomas re: Talk Talk... what is the connection there please? I LOVE Talk Talk! The Colour of Spring is just excellent... This list has done wonders for my Dolby enthusiasm... I've even installed Real Audio now so I can listen to that lecture! Best wishes as ever, +Andy+ PS We once had a cat... guess what I called him? Err.... well my wife's dad is a Thomas... so that cat got called Dolby! A rather nice tiger-y dude he was too... he lasted about 6 years until some odd disease got him *sniff*. We now have Bonnie and Clyde - see http://www.finalysys.com/users/radio/bah/bonniecly.jpg if you like. I noticed some other cat references in previous digests... wouldn't it be strange if the dog/cat preference ratio on Alloy was not 50/50? hehehe Toodle pip .... yes I kept the pages from TMDR's appearance in Hello! magazine too.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:29:11 -0500 (EST) From: Keith Dawe Subject: Re: Alloy: Talk Talk??! On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Andy Venables wrote: > There was a vague reference to Thomas re: Talk Talk... what is the > connection there please? > I LOVE Talk Talk! The Colour of Spring is just excellent... I vaguely recall such a mention but I do want to say that in the past year, an excellent collection called Asides Besides was released; one disc contains nearly all the 12" extended mixes, and the second, many of the b-sides. It was a dream come true for a Talk Talk fan like me who loved the 'It's My Mix' EP (similar to 'Blinded By Science') and alsways wanted it on CD. Now, I feel Dolby deserves the same treatment (Talk Talk and TMDR are both distributed by EMI)! Can you imagine a 2 disc set with the 12 mixes from Blinded by Science plus others, and all those rare b-sides? If such a thing would be released, what do you think (or desire) the track listing would be--keeping in mind the time limits of a CD, say 78 minutes? - --omega PS. The remastering of Asides Besides was top notch! - ----------------- omega@torfree.net "Expectation is a prison"--Fripp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 16:45:53 +0000 From: Robert Latham Subject: Alloy: Talk Talk??! may I suggest that all Talk Talk fans get hold of the new CD release "Live London 1998" it is a must for all Talk Talk fans. IT is excellent. !!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 16:58:20 +0000 From: Robert Latham Subject: Alloy: Talk Talk??! Sorry the CD title is 1988 NOT 1998 BY THE WAY !! rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:47:36 -0500 (EST) From: Keith Dawe Subject: Re: Alloy: Talk Talk??! On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Robert Latham wrote: > Sorry the CD title is 1988 NOT 1998 BY THE WAY !! I was going to say! Too bad there wasn't a reunion... despite the fact that Orang is, at times, quite interesting and that Mark Hollis solo CD--wow! 'Subtle' is too strong a word for that one, yet it's beautiful. So what is on it? Does it have material from Spirit of Eden? - --omega - ----------------- omega@torfree.net "Expectation is a prison"--Fripp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 11:02:38 -0800 From: Robyn Moore Subject: Re: Alloy: Talk Talk??! At 08:00 AM 3/8/99 , you wrote: > >Yo again, > >Well I've got back to digest #343 in the previous volume... about Christmas >time... >There was a vague reference to Thomas re: Talk Talk... what is the >connection there please? I'm not sure if they've ever worked together in any capacity, but EMI-Capitol put out a "Back 2 Back Hits" CD with 5 tracks from each on it last year. >We now have Bonnie and Clyde - see >http://www.finalysys.com/users/radio/bah/bonniecly.jpg if you like. I >noticed some other cat references in previous digests... wouldn't it be >strange if the dog/cat preference ratio on Alloy was not 50/50? hehehe I'm definitely a cat person, even though I'm allergic. We have a 10 year old black cat with a little white patch on his chest (and is turning grey in spots) named Catalyst. Robyn M @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.alveus.com/kbrm/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:06:36 -0800 (PST) From: Elaine Linstruth Subject: Re: Alloy: News about Thomas..! ME TOO sorta Well, if he did it wasn't recorded on my Best-Of disc. It says all songs written by Tom Bailey, Alannah Currie, and Joe Leeway except a couple, neither of which mentions TD. "In The Name of Love '88" does say a co-writer was Matthew Seligman, though, who has worked with TD. Was he one of the Lost Toy People? Maybe I'm messing all this up. Either way, you'll have to tell us what comes of the story! - -- Elaine Linstruth Palmdale, CA (USA) On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Debrah LaRue wrote: > daughter's boyfriend was over and I was telling my daughter that one of > our all time favourite Thompson Twins song "hold me now" was actually > written by Thomas Dolby. Her boyfriend goes oh I've heard of him (he's ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:38:37 EST From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: Dolby Covers In a message dated 3/8/99 8:57:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, llfrat@netreach.net writes: << My hubby and I are big Queen fans too >> Lucinda, I've loved Queen since I was seven! The idea of Thomas doing a cover of one of their songs hadn't occured to me.. but I like it. Hearing Mr Dolby's take on some of these would be fascinating, especially because over most of their career, Queen were always boasting of the fact there were no synths used in the making of their records :) 'Teo Torriatte' (from A Day at the Races) has always been one of my very favorites. I can imagine that Thomas would do a really nice version of that. Robin T "when I'm gone, don't stop to wonder if I ever think of you the same moon shines, the same wind blows for both of us and time is but a paper moon" (from Teo Torriatte, 1976) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:44:37 EST From: Kichug@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: Attention Bjork fans In a message dated 99-03-07 22:10:36 EST, Keith@Stansell.com writes: << I know there are some Bjork fans on this list. Ok, one for sure, but I'm sure there are others. Bjork has released a video compilation of all her really cool videos. I just picked it up on DVD. Thought you'd like to know since I haven't seen it advertised. -Keith >> i picked this up at a local drug store that went out of business for $2 - i hadn't seen it anywhere before!!! m ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 16:01:27 -0700 From: Debrah LaRue Subject: Re: Alloy:oops hold me now oops I said hold me now was written by Thomas Dolby? My bad...I think it's that he produced it, well positive about that 99% ? In the name of love? Almost certain he played on it and produced/arranged it. ok REAL experts fix my faulty knowledge...or memory loss? Debrah Elaine Linstruth wrote: > > Well, if he did it wasn't recorded on my Best-Of disc. It says all songs > written by Tom Bailey, Alannah Currie, and Joe Leeway except a couple, > neither of which mentions TD. "In The Name of Love '88" does say a > co-writer was Matthew Seligman, though, who has worked with TD. Was he > one of the Lost Toy People? Maybe I'm messing all this up. > > Either way, you'll have to tell us what comes of the story! yes Debrah wrote this: > > our all time favourite Thompson Twins song "hold me now" was actually > > written by Thomas Dolby. Her boyfriend goes oh I've heard of him ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 20:09:28 -0700 From: Debrah LaRue Subject: Re: Alloy: Attention Bjork fans Hey I'm starting to look at some of your websites/photos! I want Andy to divorce his wife. Jest kidding...that's not very funny...and I saw the funniest typo on the TDR discography listing that is on Robyn's AMAZING site. Wow, a lot of us must have so many of the same likes and dislikes, guess that's not so odd. I thought I won the "eccentric" title but it looks like I've run into my equals. (or betters'-) Anyway, I have ALL Joan Armatrading vinyls/CD's (cos I've loved her for over 20 years)...on the TDR list it says "walk under letters" instead of walk under ladders...;-) and Lene Lovich was spelled Lovitch I think...WHAT we aren'y perfekt? El no typo o o Yes I am too ill to do anything but play on my computer and watch X-Files in one hour, I called in sick to my garden/yard work today. Sorry Keith I don't like Bjork's voice (is that gunfire I hear?) but she probably wouldn't like mine either...'-) Shouldn't tell jokes here, but my Dr. always tells me this when I get too down about "you know." He says "Doctors went back in time and gave Van Gogh our lithium/prozac stuff, then they came back to today and found that his most famous work was a big yellow happy face...so...smiles for EVERYONE and remember to suffer for your art...? Keith Stansell wrote: > > I know there are some Bjork fans on this list. Ok, one for sure, but I'm > sure there are others. > > Bjork has released a video compilation of all her really cool videos. I > just picked it up on DVD. > > Thought you'd like to know since I haven't seen it advertised. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 21:12:56 -0700 From: Debrah LaRue Subject: Re: Alloy: paranormal/philosophy/Jung Robin I wanted to write back to you about your enlightening mail but I saw it was an AOL address and you might have to pay for time on that account? I wish to post 3 responses. > I haven't studied the philosophers, but I intend to once I return to my university. ======== If I HAD to do it at school? I'd probably fail all their tests about it! I am often flustered by famous philosophy discourse/essays. I almost feel that they are writing WAY above me (but that would not be that hard'-) but I can't imagine ANY of the common under-educated masses of their time, those whom they often claimed to be pulling for, understanding a word of it! Their own peers perhaps...but really...Illiteracy was rampant, very small numbers of geniuses due to this! Other times I feel thay were merely competing with each other as each book came around the next would try to outdo the other's argument. Then I read how LONG a discourse is and I think, is this just ME?...or did they already say that before but in a different way? And is it really my imagination that sometimes it actually doesn't make sense, even if carefully broken down? (only some'-) like some of Rousseau's essay, which is even in the 1910 Harvard classics! I am NO ONE to say this, I just wonder if "some of it" is super-intellectual "hogwash." Yes, I just said something I have no real right to say, since my brain is the size of a pea compared to those I just belittled. I DO love philosophy...repeat to remember...I do believe, at the very least that most of what I have "understood" is a more accurate account of "history" than the shit (excuse me) they feed our kids in school. About Jung ========+++ > suggest 'Memories, Dreams, Reflections' (his memoirs) and then his > paper called 'Synchronicity'. I have MAN AND HIS SYMBOLS which has "approaching the unconcious;the importance of dreams" et cetera but not the above book. I'll look for it. I greatly respect Jung. Freud? I respect and disrespect him. Jung as HIS student? HA what a laugh... > high fevers either ~ it turned out to be pneumonia. ====== only 102 no cough...fevers weird...I have had maybe 5 in 10 years, 2 this winter! I am too happy to have my boyfriend back to care that I feel like death. I have a very high tolerance for pain (no I'm not a bondage queen) no blood/claustrophobic acts EVER. The spiderweb tattoo on my skull was painful. I have armband tattoos and a few on my back and beh&#* barely felt it! I believe there might be a correlation between emotional pain vs physical. I have never read anyone doing a study, so who knows. I just find it odd that I can do things like natural childbirth, other pains, but have zero tolerance for emotional pain, almost as if body pain means nothing after what I feel "inside." (thought for food) Debrah ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 00:53:04 +0000 From: "I T Admin @ Govt Office North West" Subject: Alloy: Re: Freefab Sprt - was 'Yo again' At 10:19 08/03/99 -0000, Andy wrote: > >Howdy folks, > > Then again... it's such a personal thing this "taste" >business... I wish I knew why Prefab Sprout completely fails to move me. You >all seem to like it - but I bought an album and can only tolerate one track! >It was great to hear Thomas towards the end of Machine Gun Ibiza when I was >enjoying it already - the icing on the cake. The rest of it though... just >doesn't float my boat - and I feel that it ought to for some reason! Ah >well.... > You are NOT alone, sunbeam. An couple of ex-Alloyites and Flat Earth Society members kept on at me about PS, and in the end I managed to borrow three or four albums, determined to give them a fair shake. Once I took the tapes out of the player, I couldn't put them in again. Just audio wallpaper to me, I'm afraid. BTW, it gives me absolutely no satisfaction to say this. I was hoping to discover a band that I knew very little of that I'd really like, but it didn't happen. Then again, one of them put me on to The Blue Nile, and 'Hats' must be one of the coolest albums I've ever heard. We can't all like everything, I suppose. The band I've discovered recently is Ozric Tentacles, courtesy of one of the girls in the office. I was playing a Brand X CD on my portable, and she said if you like this you should listen to the Ozrics, and she wasn't wrong. I'm hooked, and have acquired about five albums in the last two months. I love it when that happens. TTFN Slarvibarglhee ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:19:57 -0700 From: "Keith Stansell" Subject: Re: Alloy: Attention Bjork fans Ahh, well. It's completely understandable. There are some singers out there who's voices get on my nerves also. I can't fault you for that. I didn't like the voice of the guy who sang with her in the Sugarcubes, I found it annoying. Then again, perhaps I just like her cause she's so damn cute. - -Keith Stansell Denver - ----- Original Message ----- From: Debrah LaRue >Sorry Keith I don't like Bjork's voice (is that gunfire I hear?) but she >probably wouldn't like mine either...'-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 17:33:08 -0800 From: Robyn Moore Subject: Re: Alloy: Attention Bjork fans At 07:07 PM 3/7/99 , you wrote: > >I know there are some Bjork fans on this list. Ok, one for sure, but I'm >sure there are others. > >Bjork has released a video compilation of all her really cool videos. I >just picked it up on DVD. > >Thought you'd like to know since I haven't seen it advertised. Hm...I'll have to see if I can find a copy. Can you tell me, by any chance, if it has the animated one she did with John K? I never did get a decent copy of that one off MTV. Robyn M @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.alveus.com/kbrm/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 21:53:24 EST From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Alloy: Andy's cats In a message dated 3/8/99 11:19:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, andyv@FINALYSYS.com writes: << We now have Bonnie and Clyde - see http://www.finalysys.com/users/radio/bah/bonniecly.jpg if you like. >> wow, these cats are beautiful. I love their eyes! What kind are they, and they look so alike... are they from the same litter? Robin T ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 20:23:57 -0700 From: "Keith Stansell" Subject: Re: Alloy: Attention Bjork fans I think the one you are talking about is "I miss you" or something like that. Very Ren and Stimpy-ish. The compilation is very complete and even includes some videos that I have never seen before and one song that's not on her albums. - -Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: Robyn Moore To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 6:33 PM Subject: Re: Alloy: Attention Bjork fans > >At 07:07 PM 3/7/99 , you wrote: >> >>I know there are some Bjork fans on this list. Ok, one for sure, but I'm >>sure there are others. >> >>Bjork has released a video compilation of all her really cool videos. I >>just picked it up on DVD. >> >>Thought you'd like to know since I haven't seen it advertised. > > > Hm...I'll have to see if I can find a copy. Can you tell me, by any >chance, if it has the animated one she did with John K? I never did get a >decent copy of that one off MTV. > > Robyn M > > >@ Robyn Moore >@ http://www.alveus.com/kbrm/robyn.html >@ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 22:26:53 EST From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: paranormal/philosophy/Jung In a message dated 3/8/99 7:01:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, Debrah writes: ::I have MAN AND HIS SYMBOLS which has "approaching the unconcious;the importance of dreams" et cetera but not the above book. I'll look for it. I greatly respect Jung. Freud? I respect and disrespect him. Jung as HIS student? HA what a laugh...:: Student, and something of a rival. Freud eventually felt professionally threatened by Jung, to such a degree that Freud became a little paranoid. He even believed Jung subconsciously wanted to kill him, based on his own analyses of Jung's dreams (more telling about Freud's mental state than Jung's IMO). One difference I see which seperates the two doctors by a wide margin is that Freud's analysis remained somewhat aloof & authoratarian, while Jung believed the doctor and the patient both had things to learn from one another in each session, and that a balanced interplay between patient & doctor was vital to successful treatment. ::The spiderweb tattoo on my skull was painful. I have armband tattoos and a few on my back and beh&#* barely felt it! :: Ouch! My husband wanted me to get a tattoo on my head when I was wearing it in a mohawk years ago, but I knew it'd be too painful. Not just the pain of the needle, but your head vibrating minutely for hours... no thank you! My wrist & shoulder ones didn't hurt, my Achiles tendon one DID hurt a lot, & swelled to the size of half a grapefruit. But the other two times, I felt that having the tattoo done was no more painful than a sunburn. Robin T ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 22:44:39 EST From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: philosophy In a message dated 3/8/99 7:01:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, Debrah writes: << Other times I feel thay were merely competing with each other as each book came around the next would try to outdo the other's argument. Then I read how LONG a discourse is and I think, is this just ME?...or did they already say that before but in a different way? And is it really my imagination that sometimes it actually doesn't make sense, even if carefully broken down? (only some'-) like some of Rousseau's essay, which is even in the 1910 Harvard classics! >> I have similar feelings about what little I know of the philosophers. I've always thought that I should get my own philosophy straight before reading theirs, or else become (even more!) horribly confused, and so I sort of instinctively avoided studying them at college. Too many of my fellow students in high school & college would start reading the philosophers & just swallow everything hook, line & sinker - they had no life experience of their own to weigh it against or to defend themselves with. (BTW, Debrah, thanks for being concerned about my email account... I am on AOL but I pay for unlimited use per month, about $20 for both Dave and I. a great deal, I think! :) Robin T ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V4 #77 **************************