From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V4 #62 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Friday, February 26 1999 Volume 04 : Number 062 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Alloy: Re: Thomas' lecture (Robin raises her hand w/a question afterward) ["Jennie Bolton" ] Re: Alloy: Re: Thomas' lecture (Robin raises her hand w/a question afterward) [Debrah LaRue Subject: Alloy: Re: Thomas' lecture (Robin raises her hand w/a question afterward) Robin asks, > when did the formal schism between >the two worlds begin? Is it known, and what precipitated it? The philosophy of "modern science" came from Descartes, and from the philosopy of the Age of Reason more generally, with the development of a formal framework for carrying out scientific inquiry, based on observation, proposing a theoretical framework to describe and predict the observed behavior, and then the testing of the theory via experiment (the concept of rationality, loosely speaking...I'm not attempting to start a huge philosophical war here ;-))....a framework for discovery otherwise known as "the scientific method". What gets lost a lot in science education and generally, educating the public about science and the scientific process, is that the qualities that make for great artists (vision, intuition, inspiration, etc.) are also necessary for coming up with the best new theories, aside from the background knowledge you have to have. So still, artists and scientists (theoretical ones, anyway) really aren't that different in what they do, it's just that artists create their own processes, while scientists largely share a general outline for process in common. In my opinion, anyway :-)...there are some other scientists on this list, maybe they would like to chime in. Cheers, Jennie (:^ ____________________________________________________ Jennie Bolton, Research Chemist Northwest Fisheries Science Center · Vice-Chair, Pionus Breeders Association ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:28:02 EST From: CJMark@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: Another new member! Hey Greg.. Welcome to the Alloyed.. Make yourself at home.. set a spell. . enjoy life... etc! Ciao for now.. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:31:11 EST From: CJMark@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: Alloy: Another new member! Guess I always thought our numbers were swell.... but what the heck.. The more the merrier!! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:42:38 EST From: CJMark@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: Alloy: planetary conjunction Don't be so harsh on yourself.. Lissu.. you can't think of everything!!! At least you felt the "Ping" of something twitching in your brain.. telling you there was a connection somehow or another!... Ciao for now.. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:29:19 EST From: CJMark@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: Alloy: planetary conjunction (was: snow, snow, snow..) Er... wasn't that Milky Way... ? Just wondering.. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:38:28 EST From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: Re: Thomas' lecture (Robin raises her hand w/a question afterward) In a message dated 2/25/99 9:22:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbolton@ooze.nwfsc.noaa.gov writes: << The philosophy of "modern science" came from Descartes, and from the philosopy of the Age of Reason more generally, with the development of a formal framework for carrying out scientific inquiry, based on observation, proposing a theoretical framework to describe and predict the observed behavior, and then the testing of the theory via experiment (the concept of rationality, loosely speaking...I'm not attempting to start a huge philosophical war here ;-))....a framework for discovery otherwise known as "the scientific method". What gets lost a lot in science education and generally, educating the public about science and the scientific process, is that the qualities that make for great artists (vision, intuition, inspiration, etc.) are also necessary for coming up with the best new theories, aside from the background knowledge you have to have. So still, artists and scientists (theoretical ones, anyway) really aren't that different in what they do, it's just that artists create their own processes, while scientists largely share a general outline for process in common. >> Jennie, thanks for sharing these facts & opinions. I like what you have to say on the subject, especially on the more 'artistic', visionary approach to the scientific process. One thing about some theoretical scientists that I find striking is that they sometimes tend to cling to their original theory in spite of all evidence which may potentially disprove it (especially when presented by another scientist with an opposing viewpoint, as in the 'big bang' vs. 'solid state' universe) Even if they discover such unfavorable evidence for themselves though, there seems to be a desire to try denying it to the furthest extent possible in order to salvage their original claim... until it becomes scientifically ludicrous to continue doing so & their colleagues start avoiding them. They cling to their theory in a very 'religious' way... an attitude which crosses the border between empirical science and spiritual faith. Maybe scientists who have a more creative approach to their work and can apply abstract thinking objectively to their science are less likely to exhibit this really weird tendency I've noticed. I hope you & your birds are well! :) Robin T ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:51:56 EST From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Alloy: a brief goodbye Just to let you all know, I'll be out of town for four or five days visiting NY, and I'm unsure what kind of computer access I'll have, if any at all. If anything weird should happen on the list while I don't have access, please hang tight til i get back & I'll fix it as soon as possible. I'm nervous (I've never left the list alone before!) but what could possibly go wrong in only four days? <> Everybody be good while I'm gone! I'll miss you! Robin, with Dave & Ramirez (to my delight... the hotel we're staying at is 'pet-friendly' :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 23:02:22 -0500 From: MacSuirtain Subject: Re: Alloy: a brief goodbye Good luck traveling in the snow - I heard that Boston got dumped on but good today. Be careful and be good! (Well, not too good - what's the point in that, eh?) Cheers, Melissa RThurF@aol.com wrote: > > Just to let you all know, I'll be out of town for four or five days visiting > NY, and I'm unsure what kind of computer access I'll have, if any at all. If > anything weird should happen on the list while I don't have access, please > hang tight til i get back & I'll fix it as soon as possible. I'm nervous (I've > never left the list alone before!) but what could possibly go wrong in only > four days? > > <> > > Everybody be good while I'm gone! I'll miss you! > > Robin, with Dave & Ramirez > (to my delight... the hotel we're staying at is 'pet-friendly' :) - -- Melissa R. Jordan Owner/Artist, Compass Rose Studios Unique Wearable Art in Large Sizes & Handstamped Handicrafts http://www.erols.com/jamesq/crs/welcome.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:11:04 -0700 From: Debrah LaRue Subject: Re: Alloy: Re: Thomas' lecture (Robin raises her hand w/a question afterward) RThurF@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 2/25/99 9:22:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jbolton@ooze.nwfsc.noaa.gov writes: > > << The philosophy of "modern science" came from Descartes, and from the > philosopy of the Age of Reason more generally, with the development of a > formal framework for carrying out scientific inquiry, based on observation, > proposing a theoretical framework to describe and predict the observed > behavior, and then the testing of the theory via experiment (the concept of > rationality, loosely speaking...I'm not attempting to start a huge > philosophical war here ;-))....a framework for discovery otherwise known as > "the scientific method". > > What gets lost a lot in science education and generally, educating the > public about science and the scientific process, is that the qualities that > make for great artists (vision, intuition, inspiration, etc.) are also > necessary for coming up with the best new theories, aside from the > background knowledge you have to have. So still, artists and scientists > (theoretical ones, anyway) really aren't that different in what they do, > it's just that artists create their own processes, while scientists largely > share a general outline for process in common. > >> > > Jennie, thanks for sharing these facts & opinions. I like what you have to say > on the subject, especially on the more 'artistic', visionary approach to the > scientific process. > > One thing about some theoretical scientists that I find striking is that they > sometimes tend to cling to their original theory in spite of all evidence > which may potentially disprove it (especially when presented by another > scientist with an opposing viewpoint, as in the 'big bang' vs. 'solid state' > universe) Even if they discover such unfavorable evidence for themselves > though, there seems to be a desire to try denying it to the furthest extent > possible in order to salvage their original claim... until it becomes > scientifically ludicrous to continue doing so & their colleagues start > avoiding them. They cling to their theory in a very 'religious' way... an > attitude which crosses the border between empirical science and spiritual > faith. Maybe scientists who have a more creative approach to their work and > can apply abstract thinking objectively to their science are less likely to > exhibit this really weird tendency I've noticed. > > I hope you & your birds are well! :) > > Robin T from Debrah, new arrival from hell's labyrinth Just a test to see how this discussion email works...ah yes but isn't the term "the age of Reason" almost a slang term that was pegged on the free-thinkers for what was at that time NOT very respected but later renamed "age of enlightenment" when it won its respect back in the 19th century...drivel...favourite philosophers: Voltaire, Bacon, Spinoza, Kant. I study philosophy but I'm really bad at the scientific aspect of it, I scoop up the foam and think oh my goodness that is way over my head, let me read that again...ah ha, I'm not an existentialist, am I? Metaphysics not a science...but but...A bit sophmoric but always trying to understand Kafka and Camus anyway...greeting from the DarkPoet - -- February fearless leap year bore,Uncertain future in store Take my body to blackest bitter,King and Queen of bold Winter This spirit so broken cannot last,Damn your season to the past İDL 3 books*** websites*** Email: darkpoet@darkpoet.com http://www.intermag.com/DPS (Dance with the Dark Poet- Oct 96) http://www.darkpoet.com (CycloDrama- release date Spring 1999) http://www.darkpoet.net (Sun Storm Diaries- release date 2001?) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 23:54:20 -0600 From: Rebecca Subject: Alloy: OT -Any computer programmers please help ASAP Howdy folks, My significant other is a computer science major. and is hung on a problem. If you can provide any insight late Thursday night on the following problem, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Rebecca >> >>OK, I'm trying to write a linear program based on butterfat content of >>milk products. Cream has 40% or more fat and milk has 20% or more. Now, >>how much fat is actually in it depends on how much raw milk is blended >>unseperated with refined milk which has been seperated. Anyway, it's >>saying that it's not linear, ie I'm multipling two variables. >>-bri - - Please visit the All Vintage Barbie Page and Custom Doll Gallery http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/7329/becki.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:03:22 EST From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: a brief goodbye In a message dated 2/25/99 11:03:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, wearart@erols.com writes: << I heard that Boston got dumped on but good today. Be careful and be good! (Well, not too good - what's the point in that, eh?) >> Oh, we only got about four inches & aren't expecting much more. The weather programs like to exaggerate because we haven't had any snowfall all winter to speak of, and they're wringing all the drama they can get out of this batch. Cape Cod & Nantucket got the worst of it by far, because the storm is one of those legendary nor'easters (sitting just off the coast, churning the moisture inland) but the city got very little. You'd never know it though. At the first sign of nature infringing on daily routine, I've noticed that city folk tend to flip out. All the schools were cancelled, businesses shut down, and some establishments even closed in advance for tomorrow. it's just silly. I read about Lissu's weather & our winter is such the polar opposite as far as snow accumulation (no pun intended!! well, maybe a little intended :) Thanks Melissa.. we do intend to have lots of fun on this much-needed break away from things. Hence our stay in a *hotel* instead of @ my mom's, besides, she won't let us into her house with Ramirez anyway due to her strange phobia of him. By the time I get back, you'll have started your new job! Best of luck my dear, I know you'll impress them all. Let us know how it goes! I'm going to try to access the list while I'm gone but I'm not sure if I can... still I'll try, because I can't wait to hear about your first day! Robin T with freshly shampoo'd ferret racing around the apartment, to the sound of Lara Croft gunning down eagles in the next room ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:22:44 -0500 From: "Stephen M. Tilson" Subject: Alloy: Greetings, Debrah! Greetings!, and welcome aboard Debrah! I remember your address from eBay. You bid on, and won, a copy of the soundtrack to "Gothic". Please do tell us about your connection with Thomas Dolby. /\/\iles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:34:38 -0700 From: "Keith Stansell" Subject: Re: Alloy: It's the old in-n-out (URGES) I'm flying (west, not north) to Las Vegas Friday evening for a quick weekend. I forgot about the In-N-Out burgers. They have them there! Thanks for the reminder ! - -Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen M. Tilson To: Sent: Thursday, February 25, 1999 2:39 AM Subject: Alloy: It's the old in-n-out (URGES) > >David Shuman wrote: > > > Well, tonight the deer can look down on me munching on an In-N-Out > > burger on Sunset. > >How very California! > >(Hmmm, Our local In-N-Out is open till 1AM. > > > >Oh, sorry!) > >Hey, did you know about the little messages In-N-Out puts on the >bottom of their cups? Just discovered them recently myself. > >For those not in the know here: In-N-Out *Burgers* is a >quintessentially Left-Coast eatery that specializes in high quality >low cost fast food. They serve a double meat double cheese burger >for $2.50 USD that will shame *any* burger sold by MickeyDee's, >Burger King, Wendy's and the like, AND they serve *real* milkshakes, >and french fries made from *real* potatoes. > >For many years they offered a bumper sticker that read (strangely >enough), "IN-N-OUT BURGERS". The problem was people could (and did) >easily remove the "B" and the "RS" from the bumper sticker and yet >retain the general look of the graphics and hence the issuing >company's identity. Folks that are inclined to put those kinds of >little messages on the bottom of their paper cups probably didn't >like that very much . . . . > >I'll leave it a mystery for now. Maybe Dave will tell us what his >cup says after he finishes his shake. > >Like a humble hamburger, >/\/\iles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:50:21 -0700 From: "Keith Stansell" Subject: Re: Alloy: a UK favour for xtc fans ? Peter This is great news! Any idea how us folks on this site of the pond can buy a copy. I checked CDNow and Tunes.com to no avail. Perhaps there is someone there who can write me to work out some way to have one sent to me and I'll pay for the CD and shipping. I'm really ready for some new XTC. - -Keith Stansell, Denver - ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Fitzpatrick To: Sent: Thursday, February 25, 1999 5:42 AM Subject: Alloy: a UK favour for xtc fans ? > >Hi all, >well, my liking for XTC is well documented (http://www.shabbyroad.com) >[pathetic isn't it ?] > >The links between Thomas and Andy Partridge are known to us all. > >What is probably not known to some of you is the fact that XTC have a new >album out (on Cooking Vinyl) called APPLE VENUS VOLUME 1 > >It released this week and the great news is that they are number 31 in the >mid-week charts. > >A cry has gone out from the good people at Cooking Vinyl : if you're >planning to buy this album : BUY IT NOW ! >Hopefully by the end of the week they'll have hit Top 30. >What could be nicer ? > >If you buy one, try to buy it from a Chart Return shop.... > >Next time TDMR releases something (soon ? Please ???) I'll return the favour >by posting to the 1500+ XTC mailing list. > >:-) > >Peter ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V4 #62 **************************